Is Copyright Law Only Applicable to Everyone Else?

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Rezbi

So what makes it okay for them to copy others' materials while they scream and shout at anyone who even thinks about copying theirs?

I don't know anything about the situation you're referring to, but it doesn't make it ok. It just makes them hypocrites.

That's pretty common all over -- not just with copyright stuff. For example, think of all the politicians and even religious figures who decried one activity or another as immoral -- until they too got caught with their pants down (often literally

).

It happens all over. But it doesn't make it ok for someone to break the law.

Becky

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AnniePot

14 years ago

Yes , there are a lot of hypocrites out there. A while ago I had a lot of my articles picked up and published on a website (minus my author bios) as if the material was theirs. Prominently displayed were several links to their detailed "copyright" containing explicit legal threats against anyone caught copying anything on their website.

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Rezbi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by AnniePot

Yes , there are a lot of hypocrites out there. A while ago I had a lot of my articles picked up and published on a website (minus my author bios) as if the material was theirs. Prominently displayed were several links to their detailed "copyright" containing explicit legal threats against anyone caught copying anything on their website.

Was this by a well-known 'guru'?

The people I'm referring to are well-known. The ones who sell high-ticket products.

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Underground SEO

14 years ago

I kind of guessed these things were happening, I mean I don't see how about 10 informational products about IM can be released with unique content in each day. I just simply don't believe that there is that much to write about!

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timpears

14 years ago

Most times when I see copywriters talk about how they work, they speak of a swipe file, which is only a list of all the good stuff they see from other writers. So taking the work of others to use for their own purposes is pretty common. If this person you reference swiped the whole book, then that is just taking the swipe file to the extreme. Does that make it right? I doubt it, but then they seem to be used to it.

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Tim Pears

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Rezbi

14 years ago

My point is...

I know they do it, as do a lot of people, but it's a little high and mighty of them to preach the law to the rest of us when they are obviously breaking those same laws themselves.

If they can do it, I'm wondering why not us?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's right, but I saw on an open forum where someone was complaining about his product being made available for download. The funny thing is, he was downloading other peoples' stuff as well.

How do I know he was downloading others' products?

Because someone else called him out on it and he had nothing to say.

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csc4u 14 years ago

A couple of years ago I was checking out the competition of one of my memberships sites and I found someone actually copied ALL of my content. Different layout and graphics but the exact wording on the index page was word for word off my site. They even took the exact meta description and keywords I was using. I sent an email and it was changed withing days but it's a strange feeling to see your well thought out work on another site.
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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Rezbi

I heard a 'top' copywriter admit to copying a top copywriting book. It was sent to him by another 'top' marketer to make the copy.

But you can copy the copy without copying the copy.

Clear as mud, right?

Some portion of any copyrighted material is not copyrightable. Let's look at my usual example of copywriting:

"Hey, you! Do you have this problem? My product solves that real good! Give me money and I'll send it to you!"

You can "copy" that by having the same parts. It's the basic model: Attention, Interest, Desire, Action. You could say this:

"Yo, buddy! Does this bother you? This thing can make it stop! I'll mail it out if you pay me!"

While the structure and intent has been copied, none of what was copied could be copyrighted in the first place.

It's convenient and easy to say that the second ad "copies" the first, but it's not copied word-for-word and it doesn't violate any copyright.

In general, when a professional says publicly that he did something that sounds unethical, it's a lot more likely that you don't understand what he's saying. If it was unethical, he probably wouldn't be saying it publicly.

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Rezbi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

In general, when a professional says publicly that he did something that sounds unethical, it's a lot more likely that you don't understand what he's saying. If it was unethical, he probably wouldn't be saying it publicly.

Oh, he was pretty darn clear.

He said he copied the entire book... within a day.

I'm assuming that meant photocopying.

However, if we assume what you say is correct, then I can take a complete course, paraphrase it, and sell it as mine.

Even if it sounds exactly the same, the fact I've rearranged it means it's mine?

That would be the easiest product I could make.

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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Rezbi

However, if we assume what you say is correct, then I can take a complete course, paraphrase it, and sell it as mine.

Even if it sounds exactly the same, the fact I've rearranged it means it's mine?

Do the two copy examples I've provided sound exactly the same?

The second clearly "copies" the first. It isn't even rearranged. It has the same exact AIDA principles in the same exact order. But do they sound the same?

As far as photocopying goes, I simply don't see how you could photocopy a book and come out of it with sales copy. That doesn't make any sense. "Buy my stuff! Here's page 47 of Drew Eric Whitman's Ca$hvertising."

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Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter

14 years ago

Rez I think it's a fine line. There isn't much new about marketing--it's been the same principles using different media for a couple thousand years. If I were to "lift" someone else's book and paraphrase it then sell it as my own that would clearly be theft. If I take the same principles that are in someone's book and add my own, write my own content but not copy or simply paraphrase theres, then I think it's perfectly acceptable.

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Rezbi

14 years ago

Caliban, (Couldn't quote you for some reason)

You've made an assumption here. An incorrect one.

It was a book on copywriting and he copied it for his own use.

Let's say, for example, you send me Gary Bencivenga's seminar DVDs and I copy them for my own use. Do you think he'd be happy about that?

I think not.

Or even Clayton Makepeace's Ad Writer's Arsenal, for another example. Do you think Clayton would be happy about it?

Or even Harlan Kilstein's Value Based Copywriting, for yet another example.

All just examples, of course, but I doubt any would be pleased if I or you copied them for our own use.

I'm sure they would prefer we buy our own copies.

And, before you ask again, he specifically stated that he actually copied the entire book.

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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Rezbi

You've made an assumption here. An incorrect one.

I think it is more accurate to say that your initial post is misleading.

Originally Posted by Rezbi

I heard a 'top' copywriter admit to copying a top copywriting book. It was sent to him by another 'top' marketer to make the copy.

Here's what I got from that:

"I heard a top copywriter admit to using parts of a top copywriting book. It was sent to him by another 'top' marketer as reference for the copywriting job."

But apparently, what you really meant was:

"I heard a top copywriter admit to photocopying a top copywriting book. It was sent to him by another 'top' marketer so he wouldn't have to buy it."

Ambiguity is the enemy of every writer, but none more so than a copywriter. Say exactly what you mean.

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"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers

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Rezbi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I think it is more accurate to say that your initial post is misleading.

Here's what I got from that:

"I heard a top copywriter admit to using parts of a top copywriting book. It was sent to him by another 'top' marketer as reference for the copywriting job."

But apparently, what you really meant was:

"I heard a top copywriter admit to photocopying a top copywriting book. It was sent to him by another 'top' marketer so he wouldn't have to buy it."

Ambiguity is the enemy of every writer, but none more so than a copywriter. Say exactly what you mean.

Hmm.

Did anyone else see that as ambiguous as Caliban did?

I mean, it's not like I actually said using parts of, or as reference for the copywriting job.

Anyone?

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Fraggler

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Rezbi

Hmm.

Did anyone else see that as ambiguous as Caliban did?

I mean, it's not like I actually said using parts of, or as reference for the copywriting job.

Anyone?

Not at all.

I agree with you too. It is very hypocritical. It is no different to burning a copy of a CD, DVD, or computer game. Not much you can do about though. If you want to stir him up then just send him an email and call him out.

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Scott Ames

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Rezbi

Hmm.

Did anyone else see that as ambiguous as Caliban did?

I mean, it's not like I actually said using parts of, or as reference for the copywriting job.

Anyone?

Yeah.. I did, for a bit. I had to read it again to get the meaning. My mind automatically assumed it was a copywriter using other people's stuff for research.

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Rezbi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Scott Ames

Yeah.. I did, for a bit. I had to read it again to get the meaning. My mind automatically assumed it was a copywriter using other people's stuff for research.

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I wasn't having a go at Caliban. Just that, being a copywriter, I can't afford to be ambiguous.

I'll have to take my time writing these forum posts in future.

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ContentArticleWriter

14 years ago

Copyright laws have always and will always be controversial. WHY? Simple, people often mistaken and interpret what they think is right to use, paraphrase or quote. Most people do not think the original author will follow through with a lawsuit or end up figuring it out after being sued. And often times, it can be much costlier to go to court (unless of course we are talking about material that has created millions of dollars in revenue, like for example Ian Flemming's James Bond book vs movie producer lawsuit).

The truth is we ourselves should not do it, regardless of what anyone else does. Better safe than sorry. There are Copyright laws and WE SHOULD respect them, as we do all other laws. If we do not, then we should be ready to face consequences when they do arise.

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Rezbi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ContentArticleWriter

Copyright laws have always and will always be controversial. WHY? Simple, people often mistaken and interpret what they think is right to use, paraphrase or quote. Most people do not think the original author will follow through with a lawsuit or end up figuring it out after being sued. And often times, it can be much costlier to go to court (unless of course we are talking about material that has created millions of dollars in revenue, like for example Ian Flemming's James Bond book vs movie producer lawsuit).

The truth is we ourselves should not do it, regardless of what anyone else does. Better safe than sorry. There are Copyright laws and WE SHOULD respect them, as we do all other laws. If we do not, then we should be ready to face consequences when they do arise.

My point was not that copyright laws are valid, invalid, controversial, or whatever.

My point is, these same guys would threaten others with legal action if they copied their material.

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Is Copyright Law Only Applicable to Everyone Else?

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