To what extent does fluent english matter?

Banned 14 years ago

Well, you wrote that without any problems. I'd have to see an example of your sales page or ebook to really know, but very broken English in articles, blogs, ebooks, and sales pages is a turn off to me, unless the material is so packed with really dynamite info that's it's obvious the writer knows what they are talking about even if they can't write about it fluently.

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Roswenthe

14 years ago

I think fluency does matter. I am curious as to why you don't try sites in your native language though? I would think that there would just as many possibilities as there are so many English websites that getting to the top is much more difficult.

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Joseph Then

14 years ago

Internet Marketing with poor English makes you some money

Internet Marketing with good English makes you more money

Internet Marketing with excellent English makes you tons of money

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KarlWarren

14 years ago

Originally Posted by man_xtz

I know it does. And I am on it. But this is time consuming. I mean I need time to improve my English as I am not native English speaker.
Hiring a writer is not possible now because of the budget. I will try my best to improve my writing skills and grammar. But until that happens, or until I make enough money to outsource my work, what do you think?
Thanks in advance.

This post alone is written better than at least half of the people that UK secondary schools churn out on a yearly basis could manage.

I agree with some of the others here, the only thing you really need to work on is your confidence.

Write more, maybe ask someone to proof-read your work once it is complete, but, by no means assume you are an inferior writer because you have what it takes.

Kindest regards,
Karl.

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affilcrazy

14 years ago

Honestly IMHO not as much as some people make out. Yes spelling and grammar are important as most readers, whether they want to admit it or not, will judge you.

However I have read many articles and blog posts that I immediately know are written by a non-native English speaker, but i have found them interesting, informative and I definitely leave the page feeling more knowledgeable.

As they say "practice makes perfect" and your writing will improve with time. With that being said, without naming names, i have read many posts and articles from members here who are touted as "Great Article Writers" and in all honesty, i have absolutely no idea what they are talking about a lot of the time. It is as though they are speaking in a foreign language or attempting to appear superior!

For me, i would always rather read an article by a "non-native English speaker" that provides value and decent information, over a native English speaker who has swallowed a dictionary, a theasaurus and a complete encyclopedia collection!

I often find that i read a post here by someone that somewhat inspires me and i love their style of writing. I will then usually visit their blog and spend some time there. Not only am i taking in the information they are providing, i am also learning more about their writing style and possibly improving my own!

Cheers
Partha

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David Chung 14 years ago

Being able to write clearly will help you make a good impression online, where text is often the only medium through which people can communicate with you.

That being said, if you have a good point to make and are able to write well enough to get your point across, then you should still be able to do great.

Think of it as watching a television program through a television set with bad reception. If the picture is a little fuzzy, but you can still see what's going on, maybe you'll watch. If it gets so bad that all you can see are black and white lines all over the place, you'll switch channels.

Now if the picture was a little fuzzy but the TV show was really good or something you really wanted or needed to watch (e.g. you bought a lottery ticket and they're going to announce the results on TV, or you really need to find out what happens in the next episode of your favorite show), then you're going to sit there and stare at the screen, regardless of the poor picture quality.
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Mohammad Afaq

14 years ago

I think your post is really good and you don't have mistakes in it. I think that only thing you need to work on is sentence structure because you have very short and choppy sentences.

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vtte

14 years ago

Read, write, and read more.

The best way to learn proper English in a short amount of time is to take away what you can from the works of exemplary writers. Take note of the way they utilize grammar and structure, and you will soon find yourself writing the same way! As for idioms, now there's a minefield you might want to look out for, because if used incorrectly, it can make your texts absolutely horrendous. There are other ways of expressing yourself, so don't worry too much about it.

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jimh1626

14 years ago

Very little wrong with your post. Better than a lot of people that speak English as a first or only language. If you are concerned about your abilities to write English correctly why not put a small statement at the beginning of your site or your product to explain that?

Jim

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srumsley

14 years ago

Originally Posted by jimh1626

Very little wrong with your post. Better than a lot of people that speak English as a first or only language. If you are concerned about your abilities to write English correctly why not put a small statement at the beginning of your site or your product to explain that?

Jim

Jim has provided you with an absolute gem here: if you 'apologise in advance' for any awkwardness as you are trying your best to express yourself in English, which is not your native language, you will immediately draw the sympathy of your native English readers. As to your post, I agree with the others; there are no real flaws there except perhaps the missing capital in the word 'english' in your title.
But in forum posts people take many shortcuts, abbrieviate and mis-spell, and noone particularly cares. However, for ebooks or info products you are charging for, I believe you should deliver the best quality you can, and that may mean paying for a proof-reader to make corrections for you. That doesn't have to mean 'expensive'.
Hey, warriors! Haven't we got anyone offering a service to our non-English fellow marketers for proof-reading? I have to admit, my last purchase of a WSO was woeful in the 'faulty English' department, and while I did receive some benefit and am not complaining as such, the reading quality was really poor. No one in a book shop would have paid what I paid for that number of pages presented in such an unprofessional way. In a bookshop you get to flick through the content before you pay, but here...... :-)
Reading well-written stuff will help - a little. But getting someone to correct your own poor expression is far better.
But if your post is anything to go by, you ARE doing very well - I'm sure better than most of us native English speakers could do at your native tongue in so short a time!
Sue

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raapeti

14 years ago

If you are selling a service like Article writing, then English quality is a must. I am shocked by the amount of people who advertise with "Hay ppl, I can write much articles for real cheap, PM me".

If your grammar is not so good, then it pays to have someone to proof read for you.

Cheers,
raapeti

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seasoned

14 years ago

Yeah, like it or not, English IS the current lingua franca. That is ODD, an oxymoron, etc..., but true none the less. It is currently the international language of many things, including aviation. The english alphabet is probably the best for technology, since it is small and simple and tecnology is usually based on it. Even most other latin character based languages have more characters.

man_xtz,

If I were you, I would think twice before outsourcing documents. You DO seem fine, and many countries have lots of people that claim to be great, but they aren't. In the off topic forum, someone remarked of how "so many writters claim to be GRATE". I said that I would want a writters writ to grate at the soul of the one it is against! 8-)

Steve

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binko

14 years ago

I had the same concerns and initially hired writers through elance to proofread my ebooks and reports. After a while I realized they found very few mistakes and stopped using them.

Your English seems perfectly fine to me so I wouldn't be too concerned.

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JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by man_xtz

I know it does. And I am on it. But this is time consuming. I mean I need time to improve my English as I am not native English speaker.
Hiring a writer is not possible now because of the budget. I will try my best to improve my writing skills and grammar. But until that happens, or until I make enough money to outsource my work, what do you think?
Thanks in advance.

Personally, I think your writing is fine. Needs a bit of polish, perhaps, but the communication is clear. If this is a sample of what you would provide, you do not need to hire a writer. At the very worst, you might need some light editing. For example, an editor would change:

I mean I need time to improve my English as I am not native English speaker.

to:

I mean, I need time to improve my English as I am not a native English speaker. (Changes in red)

This is the kind of editing even native speakers can benefit from.

If you still worry about it, take the suggestion to add a sentence or two advising that you are not a native English speaker. At your level of fluency, though, I doubt you'll need it...

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man_xtz

14 years ago

Thanks everybody. This was really inspiring. I am gonna buy some books and courses to improve my skills. Good English is a skill I will never lose as you have said.
But I will also focus on the quality part and this is the most important. I will read and write a lot to : 1. make money. 2. Improve my English.
I am preparing 20 articles for my health site and I will bring samples to see how things are going.
Thanks again

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Istvan Horvath 14 years ago

Originally Posted by man_xtz

I am gonna buy some books and courses to improve my skills.

Don't! I mean don't buy anything because it would be a waste of money.

You seem to be in the same situation as I was a few years ago: after writing for a living in another language... I was "paralyzed" when it came about writing in English because I was afraid my English wasn't good enough.

Luckily, a few friends who saw some samples of my writing in English started to kick my a$$ in order to force me to sit down and write more (and more).

I am not saying I will become the next Hemingway... but I am able to put together reports, manuals, guides, blog posts etc. without major mistakes.

Some WF members were overly tolerant even with my heavily accented audio

I just read a lot (newspapers, magazines, books); try to remember phrases and idioms - and practice. E.g. writing posts in the WF... LOL
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Dunder

14 years ago

I think your written english is ok. It is certainly better than some PLR products that I recently purchased from a respected marketer.

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MarkAnderson

14 years ago

Don't think about it much more, because you aren't writing for Nobel price.
(Actually, it doesn't mean that you should write poor English)

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Randy Rater

14 years ago

Originally Posted by man_xtz

I know it does. And I am on it. But this is time consuming. I mean I need time to improve my English as I am not native English speaker.
Hiring a writer is not possible now because of the budget. I will try my best to improve my writing skills and grammar. But until that happens, or until I make enough money to outsource my work, what do you think?
Thanks in advance.

Your post is written much better than the articles I recently received from a supposedly native English writer! I don't think you have a thing to worry about.

Randy

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man_xtz

14 years ago

Thanks Randy.
Mark, I will try to write will. But I won't make it an obstacle that delay my success.
Greetings everybody.

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JDArchitecture

14 years ago

Originally Posted by man_xtz

I know it does. And I am on it. But this is time consuming. I mean I need time to improve my English as I am not native English speaker.
Hiring a writer is not possible now because of the budget. I will try my best to improve my writing skills and grammar. But until that happens, or until I make enough money to outsource my work, what do you think?
Thanks in advance.

As mentioned, looks good so far.

But I have to ask, are you also working in your native language? If not, why not?

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Istvan Horvath

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JDArchitecture

But I have to ask, are you also working in your native language? If not, why not?

I don't know about the OP's situation... but many times the "native langauge" is an under-wired, small market...

Imagine a country of a couple of million people, internet penetration very low, credit card system under-developed, average income 1/10 of a developed country - and you have the answer for the why not

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JDArchitecture

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath

I don't know about the OP's situation... but many times the "native langauge" is an under-wired, small market...

Imagine a country of a couple of million people, internet penetration very low, credit card system under-developed, average income 1/10 of a developed country - and you have the answer for the why not

Certainly that would be obvious if it's the case, but my sense is that many in developed, well-capitalized countries tend to ignore their home markets.

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man_xtz 14 years ago

Originally Posted by JDArchitecture

As mentioned, looks good so far.

But I have to ask, are you also working in your native language? If not, why not?

I am looking for real money.As Istvan Horvath small market and under developed credit card system.
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paulie888

14 years ago

Your post seemed intelligible and conveyed your message across clearly enough. I think you're underselling yourself, and you should be able to write decent sales letters and blog posts (even short ebooks) without too much difficulty if you put your mind to it. Remember that your English doesn't have to be absolutely perfect, I have seen many big internet marketing gurus that have sales letters and material which are littered with typos and misspellings (Mike Filsaime and Jonny Andrews come to mind - no offense meant here!), and yet people don't really seem to mind. As long as you're delivering excellent and meaningful content and the typos and mistakes don't drive you to distraction, I think people are not really going to mind.

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Online Bliss

14 years ago

I also think your writing is fine.
What I dislike (Hate) is trying to figure out
what some non native English speakers are saying
on many of the Video tutorials I have purchased through the years.

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man_xtz

14 years ago

I am gonna prepare my first product and see. This thread was really inspiring to me. Thank you warriors

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Sparhawke

14 years ago

So long as it is readable with no 1337 or tlkn lik dis then you shouldn't really have a problem

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Mary Wilhite

14 years ago

It does really matter if you can speak English fluently. English is a universal language, that's why you can use it wherever you go, to communicate with other people.

While you may not realize it, people will judge you also by the way you speak. Learning and speaking English better will open career doors. If you speak only an average level of English, people will think you're average. If you speak in a manner that is eloquent, this will create a powerful impression.

So, that I why it is an advantage if you can speak English fluently.

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Marian 14 years ago

You're doing great. Practice makes perfect!

Marian
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dyadvisor

14 years ago

Your writing is C, not bad. Many articles are D grade. I agree with every post but one. In article writing, sentences can be 1 to 3 words long.

I am in the process of writing an Ebook on this. If you PM me I will email you 17 pages I wrote to improve writing.

This includes 100 of my 500 motivational sentences.

These sentences are interchangeable, and can be used anytime, anywhere, in just about any article to get the reader to read on. Just change a word or two.

Read this, and other great tips in this forum. You are honest, and not just a fake PLR outsource spinner, passing off original content.

As a professional ghost writer, I get paid $100 to $250 for a 600 to 800 word article.

I take it you are not from America --so what. You have the character I hire for research article portions, and complete article rewriting.

If you have the determination, you can charge more than your competitors and get all the work you can handle.

We all have specialties. With Big Greek Mike above, his is promoting fantastic software programs.

For you, writing article and posting your services here will land you jobs.

Keep the honesty and desire. Let me know if I can help a fellow Warrior. I made my money, now its time to give someone like you some help.

So I am offering by email, some free material, samples, and tutoring Free. It is yours, just ask.

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Underground SEO

14 years ago

You're doing great, but I would say that fluent english is paramount for article submissions as they are obviously checked before they are published.

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armadin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by man_xtz

I mean I need time to improve my English as I am not native English speaker.
Hiring a writer is not possible now because of the budget. I will try my best to improve my writing skills and grammar. But until that happens, or until I make enough money to outsource my work, what do you think?
Thanks in advance.

English for me was not always a first language, well till I was about ten years old. What always strikes me is that I find so many foreigners speaking it and writing it better then some native speakers.

Judging by your writing above, you have a solid grasp of the English language and if you feel that you could improve it, I definitely think you will do great.

Language is a lot like music, we all play it with our own style while observing its basic rules.

All the best

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Sparhawke

14 years ago

Originally Posted by armadin

English for me was not always a first language, well till I was about ten years old. What always strikes me is that I find so many foreigners speaking it and writing it better then some native speakers.

Judging by your writing above, you have a solid grasp of the English language and if you feel that you could improve it, I definitely think you will do great.

Language is a lot like music, we all play it with our own style while observing its basic rules.

All the best

That is because so many native English speakers become complacent and lazy, much preferring to take shortcuts. If however you go to Africa where they are taught English as a second language they are exposed to the Queens English from day one so their vocabulary and grammar is to a much higher standard.

The Daily Mail did an experiment based on this, they asked a thousand readers to send in a written letter and had just ten Africans submit a letter...bet you cannot guess who trounced who? :p

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man_xtz

14 years ago

Thanks nice warriors.
dyadvisor, I need 50 posts to PM you.

I have only 28 posts. So this is my mail : doctor_ph1@yahoo.com

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dyadvisor

14 years ago

If you are serious man_xtz, I will give you some equipment, show you were the biggest fish are, and even teach you to fish. However you must feed yourself, and bait your own hook.

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man_xtz

14 years ago

Off course I am. I have really strong motives that make me hungry to succeed in this business.

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thenextcameron

14 years ago

English is a bridge to global success.

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dyadvisor 14 years ago

man_xtz Just sent a large file in .pdf format out to you. Start reading, and feel free to make more posts to have other Warriors also give points that do not involve "spinning."

All writers are not always right. Neither am I.
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man_xtz

14 years ago

Thanks dyadvisor. I will read it and send you my feedback very soon. You warriors are nice people.

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thebitbotdotcom

14 years ago

Originally Posted by man_xtz

I know it does. And I am on it. But this is time consuming. I mean I need time to improve my English as I am not native English speaker.
Hiring a writer is not possible now because of the budget. I will try my best to improve my writing skills and grammar. But until that happens, or until I make enough money to outsource my work, what do you think?
Thanks in advance.

It looks to me like you are doing fine, my friend. I too am just starting out and also have budget issues. I would not let it stop you from marketing.

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x3xsolxdierx3x

14 years ago

Originally Posted by man_xtz

I know it does. And I am on it. But this is time consuming. I mean I need time to improve my English as I am not native English speaker.
Hiring a writer is not possible now because of the budget. I will try my best to improve my writing skills and grammar. But until that happens, or until I make enough money to outsource my work, what do you think?
Thanks in advance.

Believe it or not, your post is actually written better than 90% of the posts written by people who should be 'fluent' in English....lol

Just remember...

Once you speak good english ain't nobody gonna change you, no way, no how....

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JohnMcCabe 14 years ago

I'll add another tip...

If your aim is to sound more like a native speaker, don't spend a lot of time and money on books to improve your English.

Spend some time watching television shows in English and reading decent fiction in English. You won't really have to study; you'll absorb the flow of language just by immersing yourself in the show or novel.

This practice can also give you a wide range of subjects on which to practice your writing skills...
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Sparhawke

14 years ago

Just don't watch something that is not typical like Shameless or The Inbetweeners to pick up language skills :p

Far better would be to stick to something shown on the BBC from suchlikes as Sir David Attenborough, the famous nature documentary guy or Newsnight...people who an at least string three words together without using a load of expletives.

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JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Sparhawke

Just don't watch something that is not typical like Shameless or The Inbetweeners to pick up language skills :p

Far better would be to stick to something shown on the BBC from suchlikes as Sir David Attenborough, the famous nature documentary guy or Newsnight...people who an at least string three words together without using a load of expletives.

Good catch. I should have been more explicit.

Just about any show can give a feel for a language, but shows which rely on profanity or crude jokes about bodily functions won't add to anyone's ability to communicate for business purposes.

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ButterflyGarden

14 years ago

Your English is quite good, from your above post. There are places grammar does matter and will impact your sales. One of which is your website and sales copy. In those areas you should outsource or higher a copy-editor. I would not worry about forum postings and email.

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Jamian

14 years ago

Originally Posted by man_xtz

I know it does. And I am on it. But this is time consuming. I mean I need time to improve my English as I am not native English speaker.
Hiring a writer is not possible now because of the budget. I will try my best to improve my writing skills and grammar. But until that happens, or until I make enough money to outsource my work, what do you think?
Thanks in advance.

Focus on better use of your best weapons instead of constant repair.

Jamian

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jennypitts

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KarlWarren

This post alone is written better than at least half of the people that UK secondary schools churn out on a yearly basis could manage.

LOL... NOT just in the UK, believe it or not some public school systems in the US render the same results... YIKES

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

In that post, your writing seemed fine - if you feel you need to improve, it's only going to happen through continual practice. Although it's time consuming, it's not an insurmountable barrier.

You said it Big Mike, Practice makes perfect. I tell my daughters that everyday. Two are in high school and one is in middle school, and they HATE writing, yet they get a lot of it. So I tell them the more you do it, the better you become at it and the more prepared you'll be to edit and catch your own mistakes.

Originally Posted by affilcrazy

However I have read many articles and blog posts that I immediately know are written by a non-native English speaker, but i have found them interesting, informative and I definitely leave the page feeling more knowledgeable.

For me, i would always rather read an article by a "non-native English speaker" that provides value and decent information, over a native English speaker who has swallowed a dictionary, a theasaurus and a complete encyclopedia collection!

I guess this is a matter of preference. I certainly can not read past the second paragraph if I find something badly written or with a lot of grammatical and typographical errors. It is distracting and disturbing. That is why I pay someone to write for me. So that I do not have to sit there and re-read my stuff, thirty times through in order to make sure it is perfect or close to. I think that reading articles, posts, blogs, books, ebooks should be enlightening and educational, and if those things are full of mistakes, then I really am not learning much.

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man_xtz

14 years ago

You are totally right. Me and my friends are used to collect the BBC documentaries and watch them together. This was really awesome. Also a friend of mine sent me an audio book collection from which I will learn faster and enjoy in the same time.
On the other hand, I love the simpsons TV show. This show rocks

. I learn rude English only from it but I can't miss this show

.

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dyadvisor

14 years ago

Thanks fellow warriors. I sent him some free helpful material, & you have given great moral support and comments. He really is sincere, and none of us know it all. Lets keep adding more to break him through to the other side. Your next comments might be the one that will do it.

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man_xtz

14 years ago

dyadvisor, thank you. Really I don't know what to say. But warriors, you are helpful nice people. Thank you guys.

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x3xsolxdierx3x 14 years ago

Originally Posted by man_xtz

dyadvisor, thank you. Really I don't know what to say. But warriors, you are helpful nice people. Thank you guys.

on big happy family....

but, seriously WF is a great place to come if you have any questions or concerns about anything (well almost anything)...lol
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badboy_Nick

14 years ago

Originally Posted by man_xtz

I know it does. And I am on it. But this is time consuming. I mean I need time to improve my English as I am not native English speaker.
Hiring a writer is not possible now because of the budget. I will try my best to improve my writing skills and grammar. But until that happens, or until I make enough money to outsource my work, what do you think?
Thanks in advance.

If you are selling to the english speaking world and your english isnt at least decent ... your conversion rate will take a nose-dive.

... UNLESS what you have to offer is so brilliant people will look past your copywriting skills, which is deifnitely doable!

Any questions just let me know

Nick

Thanks

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Jon Tees

14 years ago

You should be commended for even attempting to write outside of your native language. It takes a great deal of courage to do this, keep up the good work and you'll get there.

Thanks

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MassiveMarketer

14 years ago

Fluency is important especially in writing articles. It's your only tool to communicate and relay your message to your clients.

Thanks

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man_xtz

14 years ago

Got my first job guys. And guess what? writing

Thanks

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Albie Mathews

14 years ago

Definitley, English is an international language and each person should learn it. Dear, you can learn english speaking capabilities by watching english movies. You will never get bored and you will learn it easily.

Thanks

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man_xtz

14 years ago

Thanks Albie, but I am extremely busy these days cause I am having my school exams.

Thanks

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Damien Roche

14 years ago

I have to say, it matters. But, you don't have to produce perfectly formed sentences. Broken English doesn't bother me too much but when it's all over the place to the point where I can barely understand - that's when it becomes a problem.

My advice - don't fret too much. Your English is good enough and that's all that matters.

Touching on something else, if I buy an ebook and it contains broken English, it does frustrate me a little. I expect something I pay for to be produced professionally and when it seems like it's been written by a 13 year old, I feel a little cheated.

Of course, content is king so if you're English is broken, make the content GOLD.

Thanks

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man_xtz

14 years ago

look guys, the man asked me to search ezine for article about the keywords he provided me and just rewrite it
is this legal, ethical? or what?

Thanks
1 reply

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JohnMcCabe 14 years ago

Originally Posted by man_xtz

look guys, the man asked me to search ezine for article about the keywords he provided me and just rewrite it
is this legal, ethical? or what?

If what he wants is for you to grab an EZA article and just change a few words to avoid their filters, it's borderline legal and definitely unethical, IMO.

I say "borderline legal" because it is possible to take an article and put your own interpretation on it without simply going line by line and substituting words. That type of rewrite is called "creating a derivative work" and is a violation of copyright laws in the USA and many other countries.

One of the hazards of using articles from EZA is that you don't know how many times the article you pick has gone through this same "grab one and rewrite it process". Look at what happens when you get a photocopy of a photocopy of a... you get the idea. You also get an effect similar to the kids' game of "Telephone", where one kid whispers a sentence to the one next him, who repeats it to the kid next to her, and so on and then the kids compare the first and last versions of the sentence.

If you accept the assignment and pick an article with facts that can be verified, you will be doing your client a favor by taking the extra step of at getting a confirmation from another source. It's up to you...
- Thanks
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To what extent does fluent english matter?

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