104 replies
I know that I'm being contentious and possibly biting the hand that feeds but I believe that it is time to ask the question...has the WSO as we know it had its day?

Consider the evidence.

Nowadays, if you post a WSO, you can expect to disappear from the front page within a matter of 8 to 12 hours unless you are lucky enough to get a mass of traction in the very beginning.

And in an effort to get such traction, it seems that the title headlines that marketers attach to their WSO offers might just be getting more and more outrageous.

At the risk of setting myself up for a classic pratfall here (with 2 WSO's out there...), I swear that there are times when the headlines make me think I should expect the second coming at the very least!

Even just a year a two ago, a decent WSO would pull in plenty of business.
Now, it's a hundred times harder and I wonder just how many members - especially new folks - who have heard how great the WSO system is are completely jacked off right now.

Now, your offer disappears faster than the Titanic, so I come back to the question - is it worth doing?

Of course, those who have done well from WSO's in the recent past will say 'yes' whereas those whose $20 was a waste of time will say the opposite.

Either way, it seems to me that the proof is incontrovertible. Making money from WSO's is an awful lot harder than it was...

But before you accuse me of whining, hear me out because this is not a 'woe is me' self-pitying kick at the cruelties of life (my offer is doing pretty well as it happens).

Instead, I have both a theory as to why it's happening and a proposed solution about how the system could be shaken up to make it far more profitable for everyone.

The obvious reason why it happens is because everyone posts a WSO nowadays. Okay, that's partly true, but I believe there is more to it.

From what I see, part of the problem is the 'bumping' system, the ability to get any WSO that has dropped down the pecking order back to the top by paying $20 to get it bumped.

What this does is puts offers that have 1000, 2000, even 3000 accumulated views back on top of the pile.

Warriors log in, see these posts with huge 'popularity ratings' already attached and think 'Wow, that offer must be good' so they take a look. This is especially true when the offer is compared to other offers that have only 100 or 200 views recorded - i.e. the new offers.

Those who already have thousands of views accumulate 100's more whilst the new offers pick up a small handful here and there.

Is this giving the new offers a fair crack of the whip? I cannot say for definite but there are certainly grounds for doubting it.

So, here's a proposed solution for leveling out the playing field, a way of giving new offers their chance to at least get seen.

How about creating a two-tier WSP system?

One tier (where everyone starts) is for new offers only whilst every offer that gets bumped appears in the other WSO forum.

In this way, Warriors who just want to see what is new log into one system whilst those who want something that is proven and battle-tested hit 'WSO2' or whatever it's called.

And individual members of both groups get to see their offers nearer the top of the page for longer, meaning that both have more chance of doing the business.

Okay, the obvious argument against this is that you're splitting the number of members who might see your offer in half but is that really true?

I suspect not because maybe with only a certain amount of time available to browse the WSO pages, it is far easier to browse two front pages than it is to dig around in the mass of offers that the WSO features now.

Anyway, that's my penny's worth.

How about a two tier WSO system?

What do you think?

Cheers

Steve
#dying #wso
  • Profile picture of the author MarkAse
    I do think it is reminiscent of the IM industry in general as the field is more crowded now and I believe we're going to continue to see this trend continue.

    For those of us that take it seriously, I don't think it is a problem.

    That being said, I think your example is a good one in that it reminds us that relationship building is important in everything we do, including the time we all spend here on WF.

    2 tier system might make sense though, especially if people are regarded for giving back to the WF community through posts that garner "thanks"
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    One thing to consider is that the WSO forum doesn't guarantee
    you traffic. You may get some, but as you've noticed, lots of
    other people want the forum traffic too.

    What you could be doing is driving your own traffic to your WSO -
    via sig lines and other methods.
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  • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
    I completely understand your post, Steve....

    I'm not sure that anyone should rely exclusively on their WSO being on the front page (and visible on WF) for very long....

    I have been doing quite well with mine because, even when the WSO slips off to oblivion, I still have the ability to link to it and send outside traffic directly to it through a variety of sources....

    Honestly, I'm not sure if I would even consider posting a WSO if I didn't have the pre-established means and avenues to actually promote the WSO outside of WF....
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      I do also think that the current WSO system does quite well at shifting the success or failure of the WSO to the actual person who began the WSO....

      By this, I mean, one should be active in maintain and building their WSO. As you establish relationships with people, and give review copies, you can kindly ask people to leave reviews....

      In fact, if your product is great, even if it wasn't given specifically as a "review copy", there are alot of times will people will come back and post about it in your WSO thread.

      If you provide high quality and value, people will take notice....they may even ask to sign up for your mailing list (to see what other projects you have up your sleeve)....
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    • Profile picture of the author steve995
      Thanks guys,

      Every viewpoint happily accepted.

      Like I said, I've done very well from the WSO forum so this is not a complaint.

      But I do wonder whether there might be some merit in a two tier system to protect those who come in perhaps expecting too much,

      Anyway, who knows?

      You tell me

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
        The bizarre titled WSOs, while definitely having an IM goal of eliciting alot of curiosity and intrigue, do drive me up the wall a bit, personally...

        I know, who am I to question certain methods and techniques....

        But, I personally stay away from the ones that entitled something on the lines of "How I earn $10,000/day, and you can too!" (just as an example)

        Not only do I think these claims are incredibly unrealistic and borderline impossible to achieve, but I DO think more realistic WSOs, when aligned right next to those titled ones, don't stand a chance in the world of succeeding....

        If I made a WSO about how to earn $20 extra a day, I'm just not sure that that would survive and gain attention as much as the previously mentioned example...
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        • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
          Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

          The bizarre titled WSOs, while definitely having an IM goal of eliciting alot of curiosity and intrigue, do drive me up the wall a bit, personally...

          I know, who am I to question certain methods and techniques....

          But, I personally stay away from the ones that entitled something on the lines of "How I earn $10,000/day, and you can too!" (just as an example)

          Not only do I think these claims are incredibly unrealistic and borderline impossible to achieve, but I DO think more realistic WSOs, when aligned right next to those titled ones, don't stand a chance in the world of succeeding....

          If I made a WSO about how to earn $20 extra a day, I'm just not sure that that would survive and gain attention as much as the previously mentioned example...
          Which brings me to another point...lol

          I NEVER bump any of my products/WSOs if I see a collection of WSOs that offer a product that claims to make $10,000+ a day (or something like that)....

          It's not that I don't believe in my own products and reviews and testimonials....simply put, it would be hard for anyone to compete against such huge claims that are vying for the most exposure...
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        • Profile picture of the author summer07
          I've had the same thoughts and frustrations with WSOs. I've only been doing them since 2008 and it's a much different environment now.

          But I think the same problems will arise in a 2-tiered system - the giants will still get even bigger, and the WSOs that are just below the 'on fire' viewer count will still get fewer visitors.

          I think trying to tweak the WSO system is answering the wrong question. Instead of asking, "What's wrong with WSOs and how can we bring back the past?", how about asking "What's going on with WSOs and how do we make it work for us?"

          As I learn more and more about marketing in general, I've learned that increased competition is part of the life cycle of markets.

          New markets reward the early adapters, who can make fortunes. Think of the California gold rush in the1800's, the dot com explosion in the 1990s etc.

          As markets mature, competitors rip off ideas or improve on them, and what used to be new and easy to sell now becomes commonplace. There's just a lot more competition.

          That's where we are with internet marketing now. It's literally taking over and becoming commonplace.

          As soon as something new comes along, the copycats have clones on the market within hours!

          You either have to crank out more cheap shiny objects, since their shelf life is so short...or you have to shift models and start providing quality. In this kind of market, cream rises to the top...eventually.

          At least, that's my very UN-expert opinion

          So I'll make a suggestion for WSOs: think SEO.

          Just like YouTube, Facebook, Twitter and many other huge sites, the Warrior Forum is large enough that it's a mini search engine -- and you can optimize your titles with relevant keywords just like you'd do for Google searchers.

          Why waste a title opportunity with a keyword phrase like "How I made $5,000 in 2 minutes" (which gets zero searches according to Wordtracker, and only works for the few hours it's on WSO page one), when you can use a value-filled keyword phrase that people really might be searching for.

          Wordtracker says the phrase "home based jobs without investment" gets 7 searches -- it won't make you rich, but if you have a product that fits their needs, you could become their hero and have a loyal customer for life.

          Of course, it's still possible to make a fortune as an early adpater for the next wave of bright new shiny objects. But that's called 'speculation. Adding value is called 'investment'.

          They're both valid business models. It's just a matter of finding out which one you're best at.
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          • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
            I know it sounds like regurgitated and generic info, but if you want to see your WSO succeed, you really need to go over there, explore, and research the WSOs that APPEAR to be doing well....

            You have to make your WSO "your" territory....nurture it and foster it....respond to questions and concerns in a timely manner....

            ....all the comments and reviews you receive serve as "social proof" that your product is being well received....

            Here are some random strategies I have learned:

            1) Put your WSO on an escalating pricing scale, where each price point is limited to a certain number of Warriors. This instills a sense of scarcity. "Oh no, this is really the last time I can get this product for $__, I had better get it now because the price will go up after 2 more sales..."

            2) Give away free review copies! I say again....give away free review copies! You could have written the Bible, but, if there is noone personally 'vouching' for you product, it'll be hard to sell it to others. Oftentimes, people won't buy until they see an influx of alot of customers and reviewers.....

            3) Contact fellow Warriors, with high post counts, and give them free copies of your product and kindly ask for a review. Some will be too busy and will turn you down. That's fine. It looks good to others when they see someone with 5,000+ posts provide a review of your product. (Yes, I know...just because someone has 5,000+ posts doesn't necessarily mean they are to be trusted always....but, it definitely carries some weight within the confines of the WF's functionality)

            4) Personally, I NEVER bump a WSO thread when there are threads like "Earn $10,000 per day just like me" that are very high up on the front page....Now, I won't say these products are cr@p, but, you have to ask yourself if it is really realistic for a newbie to earn that.....The realistic products won't stand a chance competing with products that have that kind of title and sales copy attached to them....
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

              3) Contact fellow Warriors, with high post counts, and give them free copies of your product and kindly ask for a review. Some will be too busy and will turn you down. That's fine. It looks good to others when they see someone with 5,000+ posts provide a review of your product. (Yes, I know...just because someone has 5,000+ posts doesn't necessarily mean they are to be trusted always....but, it definitely carries some weight within the confines of the WF's functionality)
              Good suggestions, but you have to be a little careful with this one. I've done this in the past with Warriors that I've had previous, good interactions with and had positive responses. However, I have heard of people getting banned for spamming for doing this. My guess is they were newbies, were hitting up dozens of people, and had no existing relationship or previous interactions with those they were hitting up.

              The way they approached these people could have something to do with it, too. I've had people approach me with, shall we say, a less than ethical proposal. Naturally I decline those kind of offers. I'm sure they get reported...if you know what I mean.
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              • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
                Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                Good suggestions, but you have to be a little careful with this one. I've done this in the past with Warriors that I've had previous, good interactions with and had positive responses. However, I have heard of people getting banned for spamming for doing this. My guess is they were newbies, were hitting up dozens of people, and had no existing relationship or previous interactions with those they were hitting up.

                The way they approached these people could have something to do with it, too. I've had people approach me with, shall we say, a less than ethical proposal. Naturally I decline those kind of offers. I'm sure they get reported...if you know what I mean.
                Definitely true....

                I should have mentioned those 'existing relationships' or 'previous interactions'....I definitely agree here.....

                It shouldn't take very much, especially if someone is even remotely active and participative here on the forum. Tons of threads here lend themselves to alot of interaction....one has only to just jump right in
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                • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                  Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

                  Definitely true....

                  I should have mentioned those 'existing relationships' or 'previous interactions'....I definitely agree here.....

                  It shouldn't take very much, especially if someone is even remotely active and participative here on the forum. Tons of threads here lend themselves to alot of interaction....one has only to just jump right in
                  Absolutely right! Some folks just don't think things through far enough.

                  By the way, how was your honeymoon? Did you end up taking a book with you? If so, which one?
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          • Originally Posted by summer07 View Post

            So I'll make a suggestion for WSOs: think SEO.
            This is brilliant. WSOs have a lifespan. They sell for a while and are hot, then they fade into obscurity.

            From now on when my "high impact" headline stops producing I'll re-edit it to be more Google friendly and get some incoming links.

            It should then run on auto-pilot.

            Great advice Summer, thanks.

            Kevin [at] VirtualProfitCenter.com
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    • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
      This comes up at least quarterly.

      No, it's not dying. Unless Allen Says gets tired of these type of posts and he kills it himself as he's indicated in the past.

      Marketing landscapes online change all the time. We need to adapt or die (not the medium ie WSO's).

      It used to be a lot easier and cheaper to make money with PPC, AdWords, AdSense, eBay, etc. and yes WSO's as well. But just because it's now tougher it doesn't mean it's dying. We need to step it up.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lonely_Cowboy
        Originally Posted by Alan Petersen View Post

        This comes up at least quarterly.

        No, it's not dying. Unless Allen Says gets tired of these type of posts and he kills it himself as he's indicated in the past.

        Marketing landscapes online change all the time. We need to adapt or die (not the medium ie WSO's).

        It used to be a lot easier and cheaper to make money with PPC, AdWords, AdSense, eBay, etc. and yes WSO's as well. But just because it's now tougher it doesn't mean it's dying. We need to step it up.
        +1

        I have to do work a lot harder now at getting article views than I did a year ago from EA. The best part is that I still get a fair amount of views. I just have to work a little harder and write a couple more articles than I used to.

        Sure, we all love the good old days with everything but they don't last long. I'd love to go back to Google Adwords in 2003 with the knowledge I have now.

        Everyone should be grateful that Allen has made it so you can post your wso when you want to. I remember last when 15 would get approved at once and you'd already be halfway down the page. Now you at least have a say as to when you want to pay to get it posted.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marhelper
    I have only posted 3 WSOs in 2.5 years. I rarely go over there. If I see something I need then I will grab it but otherwise I stay on the main forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
    Two words ... market forces

    I don't see how you can describe the forum as being busier than ever and ask if it's dying. If it was dying we'd see less people using it not more.

    What is true now is that it's more competitive and you can no longer treat it as a one stop shop for your IM marketing. Where as a year or so ago you could build your entire business around running WSOs it's now cost prohibitive and you're forced to consider other marketing channels as well.

    But the number one traffic driver for WSOs remains making high quality contributions to the forum with a sig link to your offer. Nothing (apart from mailing your list) drives up views of your offer quicker.

    Just my 2c,

    Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
    Yes, it's changed.

    Change, though, is a part of life.

    I've had bumps that resulted in zero* sales. I've also had WSO's that have led buyers into becoming affiliates - one of whom made me (and him) mid-4-figures in sales.



    *Zero immediate sales - I always get a surge of opt-ins from my free WSO, even when I've bumped a different WSO.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Far from it - and it is not just about being on the front page (although that helps).

      If you have a truly unique thing to offer, and you list it properly - you can get tons of exposure.
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    • Profile picture of the author naruq
      I do not Know if WSO is dying. However, I believe that you should use other media as part of your overall marketing mix.
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    • Profile picture of the author CarloD.
      I like to think of the WSO as a testing grounds... see what people want... get some sales... gain affiliates.

      Originally Posted by Kelly Verge View Post

      Yes, it's changed.

      Change, though, is a part of life.

      I've had bumps that resulted in zero* sales. I've also had WSO's that have led buyers into becoming affiliates - one of whom made me (and him) mid-4-figures in sales.



      *Zero immediate sales - I always get a surge of opt-ins from my free WSO, even when I've bumped a different WSO.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        Just as with any other system, you need to promote your WSO in other ways. Adding it to your signature, sending it to your list and other methods will help you get more eyeballs on your offer.

        A two-tier system just makes more work for the mods and would likely result in the prices being higher.

        And honestly, the WSO section doesn't work as well for every type of offer.

        Also, the WSO section is not meant as the place for people to earn a living. It's meant to test offers or give a deal to Warriors. It's nice when they make big bucks but it's not the true point behind the idea.

        Tina
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        • Profile picture of the author steve995
          Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

          A two-tier system just makes more work for the mods and would likely result in the prices being higher, Tina
          Valid point Tina (is your sense of timing always that good/awesome?),

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author steve995
            Also truth in that Frank...
            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
              (is your sense of timing always that good/awesome?)
              Actually, I find I am quite often a day late and a dollar short...lol.

              Tina
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              • Profile picture of the author steve995
                Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

                Actually, I find I am quite often a day late and a dollar short...lol. Tina
                Consider them both returned with interest,
                Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author steve995
        Once again, thanks for all comments...

        But what about the idea of a two-tier WSO?

        No-one appears to have addressed this one yet but I sincerely wonder whether it would/could work...?

        I don't know and after a 21 hour shift at the keyboard (with another to come tomorrow), I suspect that the answers may be there, it's just I can't see them...

        But it's an interesting one no doubt,

        Until the 'morrow (where I am),

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author George Wright
          Originally Posted by steve995 View Post

          Once again, thanks for all comments...

          But what about the idea of a two-tier WSO?

          No-one appears to have addressed this one yet but I sincerely wonder whether it would/could work...?

          I don't know and after a 21 hour shift at the keyboard (with another to come tomorrow), I suspect that the answers may be there, it's just I can't see them...

          But it's an interesting one no doubt,

          Until the 'morrow (where I am),

          Steve
          OK, in a word, no. The WSO forum is not in need of a 2 tier system. It seems as if people are constantly trying to fix things that aren't broken.

          Not to take issue with seasoned Warriors, however to say one can't depend solely on the WSO forum for their online income doesn't ring true for me. It depends on how much income one wants.

          Allen's post on the old forum "How this forum can make you $50,000" is no less true now than it was then.

          My most recent WSO which started out @ $7.77 and is now $8.77 has earned me over $700.00. That is with only 1 bump. So for $40.00 in WSO fees I've made $700.

          If I wanted to I could make a new WSO once or twice a week that would do as well or even better.

          The WSO forum is the brain child of a marketing genius. I personaly choose to accept it as is and enjoy the free ride. Yes FREE. Used properly a WSO is never one penny out of pocket.

          George Wright
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        What certainly doesn't appear to be dying are posts in the main forum about the WSO section.

        Most of the changes that have occurred within the WF can be put down to the higher number of members and general visitors the forum has attracted, particularly over the last 6-9 months.

        It's been my experience here that the owner of the forum is either already aware of potential problem areas or has his methods for finding out.

        We should leave it to him. If he wants our opinion, he'll tell us it.


        Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    I agree that the WSO is reflecting the industry in general--it's tougher
    to make any sales these days. More competition and a lot more skepticism
    as the market comes of age.

    It's no fun to see your offer scroll off the first page. Perhaps Allen could
    borrow Adsense algorithm so the better and higher bids get placed at
    the top of the page. Then the customers would determine what stays
    on the first page. I know this is just wishful thinking but every other
    'solution' has a drawback including the two forums of old and new WSOs.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      I agree that the WSO is reflecting the industry in general--it's tougher
      to make any sales these days. More competition and a lot more skepticism
      as the market comes of age.

      It's no fun to see your offer scroll off the first page.
      Perhaps Allen could
      borrow Adsense algorithm so the better and higher bids get placed at
      the top of the page. Then the customers would determine what stays
      on the first page. I know this is just wishful thinking but every other
      'solution' has a drawback including the two forums of old and new WSOs.

      -Ray Edwards
      lol...and, it's even worse when it happens so darn quickly.....

      ...that's why it's so important to set up avenues and channels OUTSIDE of Warrior Forum, and drive the traffic to your WSO on your own....
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      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

        lol...and, it's even worse when it happens so darn quickly.....

        ...that's why it's so important to set up avenues and channels OUTSIDE of Warrior Forum, and drive the traffic to your WSO on your own....

        For one reason or another I thought that this was against the rules: to
        advertise your WSO from outside the forum. I guess where I got
        confused was that the rules said that your offer must be better than
        that made to the general public. I wonder who the general public
        is?

        So I never advertise my WSO to a list or other places. I guess I
        misinterpreted the rule.

        -Ray Edwards
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        • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
          Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

          For one reason or another I thought that this was against the rules: to
          advertise your WSO from outside the forum. I guess where I got
          confused was that the rules said that your offer must be better than
          that made to the general public. I wonder who the general public
          is?

          So I never advertise my WSO to a list or other places. I guess I
          misinterpreted the rule.

          -Ray Edwards
          This forum has thousands of people coming in and out each day....

          Perhaps some clarification is needed, but, I thought it was simply a special offer made to the forum.....

          The forum itself, and it's owners, do benefit from this arrangement because we are, in fact, sending people to the forum....

          On another note, I tend to think that a "Warrior Special Offer" could be "Special" for more reasons than just low pricing....

          Perhaps you have a mailing list of 10,000 people.....part of your offer being "special" 'could be' the fact that it is simply released to Warriors first....

          Although, I do concede that most people probably do equate "special" with a much lower price....
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        • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
          Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

          For one reason or another I thought that this was against the rules: to
          advertise your WSO from outside the forum. I guess where I got
          confused was that the rules said that your offer must be better than
          that made to the general public. I wonder who the general public
          is?

          So I never advertise my WSO to a list or other places. I guess I
          misinterpreted the rule.

          -Ray Edwards
          Also...I'm not so sure that many people would post WSOs if we weren't allowed to advertise it and drive traffic externally to WF....

          For $20, there have been times where my WSO has been pushed down quite quickly....I don't know that it would be 'worth' it for such limited visibility...
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by avenuegirl View Post

        Far from it - and it is not just about being on the front page (although that helps).

        If you have a truly unique thing to offer, and you list it properly - you can get tons of exposure.
        Hi Jill - I'm curious about this part of your post: ...and you list it properly.

        How do you define that? What does "listing it properly" mean to you?

        Thanks, Dennis
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      • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
        Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

        ...that's why it's so important to set up avenues and channels OUTSIDE of Warrior Forum, and drive the traffic to your WSO on your own....
        ..... that, in my opinion, is part of the problem. There are simply too many WSOs that aren't "special offers" at all.

        The WSO rules state that
        2. A Warrior Special Offer Means The Price You Give Must Be Better Than The Price The Public At Large Can Get. (This is not a "buy my product" forum, it is a "Special Offer" forum)
        In my opinion external traffic should be driven to an external sales site where the product is on sale at a higher price for "the public at large".

        I suspect many WSOs are only ever sold here.

        Just enforcing rule 2 would cut the number of WSOs available, I would think. It would also mean that buyers would have greater confidence that they really ARE getting a special offer.

        As I said - just my opinion.
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        • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
          Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

          ..... that, in my opinion, is part of the problem. There are simply too many WSOs that aren't "special offers" at all.

          The WSO rules state that


          In my opinion external traffic should be driven to an external sales site where the product is on sale at a higher price for "the public at large".

          I suspect many WSOs are only ever sold here.

          Just enforcing rule 2 would cut the number of WSOs available, I would think. It would also mean that buyers would have greater confidence that they really ARE getting a special offer.

          As I said - just my opinion.
          Perhaps Warriors should somehow be 'required' to "prove" that their offer is really a "special offer"... ?

          I think going the extra mile to show this does speak highly to those who read the WSO thread....

          Even if you just display your external website and your price point button (in your WSO thread), and show that your WSO is, in fact, REALLY a special offer, in compared to what can be found on your site....
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          • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
            One thing I do REALLY like about WSOs is the inherent 'permanency' of them (as long as you don't do something wrong...)

            Even if your WSO fades off into oblivion, you can still show others your 'link'.....and, if you hold and manage your WSO right, it can become a real awesome support and justification for purchasing your product.....

            Just by people asking questions and making comments, you get the opportunity to address what people may perceive as deficiencies....

            It's social proof....a continual log substantiating your product....I really love it....
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Coleman
              Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

              Even if your WSO fades off into oblivion, you can still show others your 'link'.....and, if you hold and manage your WSO right, it can become a real awesome support and justification for purchasing your product.....
              I agree. And we can use this to our advantage by thinking outside the box and driving traffic in many different ways. (Both internal and external traffic.)

              The WSO forum is more competitive, but the flow of customers is also greater. And people love and trust the WSO forum.

              Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author steve995
              Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

              One thing I do REALLY like about WSOs is the inherent 'permanency' of them (as long as you don't do something wrong...)
              Interesting...

              It appears that I may fall into the 'doing something wrong ' category...perhaps by starting this 'challenging' thread?

              Within an hour of doing so, the mods wiped out my signature file which contained links to my WSO's! So beware - don't raise questions or make suggestions or your sig file could be unceremoniously canned as well.

              All very odd...

              Oh well, c'est la vie,

              Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                Steve,

                Originally Posted by steve995 View Post

                Within an hour of doing so, the mods wiped out my signature file which contained links to my WSO's! So beware - don't raise questions or make suggestions or your sig file could be unceremoniously canned as well.

                All very odd...

                I didn't notice your sig file earlier so I'm only going by what you say it contained, but it's not hard to understand how a moderator might consider someone starting a thread in the main forum about WSOs while currently promoting their own WSO as being potentially self-promotional.

                I'm certainly not saying that was your intention, but it's probably best when instigating a specific WSO discussion, to first disable your own WSO links.


                Frank
                Signature


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              • Profile picture of the author George Wright
                Originally Posted by steve995 View Post

                Interesting...

                It appears that I may fall into the 'doing something wrong ' category...perhaps by starting this 'challenging' thread?

                Within an hour of doing so, the mods wiped out my signature file which contained links to my WSO's! So beware - don't raise questions or make suggestions or your sig file could be unceremoniously canned as well.

                All very odd...

                Oh well, c'est la vie,

                Steve
                What seemed odd to me was that you started this thread "challenging" things and at the same time stated that your WSOs were doing well.

                I suppose that could have been seen as drawing attention to your WSO.

                George Wright
                Signature
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                • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
                  The WSO forum should stay as it is.

                  Yes the threads with more views get more attention, but the folks who have proven themself on the WSO forum and have built up a large view count, got positive reviews/feedback because of their good products and customer service over many months/years deserve their advantage over new sellers.

                  They have earned it.

                  As a buyer of WSOs I usually prefer to buy from established WSO sellers who have a lot of positive reviews in the replies, any new sellers must be prepared to work hard to prove themself - just like the established sellers when they started.

                  There is no reason why a new WSO seller can't give away some good content, a free PDF report or video to prove themself before they start asking for money.

                  Anyone who thinks they can do a WSO and start making $100s or $1,000s straight away without creating any value, seriously needs to rethink their strategy and start giving value first before expecting any return.
                  Signature
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        • Profile picture of the author ahlexis
          Did the rules change recently? I was under the impression that, yes you can offer your special offer outside the WF at the same price . . . but only to your list.

          But what I find interesting is, lately I have been getting more and more email heads-ups from people I bought WSOs from in the past. What this means is, when the WSO "hits", there is already an immediate demand for it. Doesn't matter that it is only on page one for a very short while. As a previous customer, I know about it and take a look and if I want it I buy it.

          To me that's not breaking the rules, that's just plain ole fashioned good marketing. What I find particularly interesting is, some of the marketers doing this are not just telling me about their new WSO, they are telling me about it and then sending me directly to the WSO post. Doing it that way, it doesn't matter whether your offer is on the front page or not; if it's a good offer, it will sell.

          So if you are doing that, keeping a list of previous WSO buyers and then giving them a head's up when you launch a new one, WSOs are not dying but instead something else is dying. Maybe it's the offer. Maybe it's your strategy. Maybe . . . ? Who knows?

          One thing's for sure; it's not the WSO Forum.


          Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

          ..... that, in my opinion, is part of the problem. There are simply too many WSOs that aren't "special offers" at all.

          The WSO rules state that


          In my opinion external traffic should be driven to an external sales site where the product is on sale at a higher price for "the public at large".

          I suspect many WSOs are only ever sold here.

          Just enforcing rule 2 would cut the number of WSOs available, I would think. It would also mean that buyers would have greater confidence that they really ARE getting a special offer.

          As I said - just my opinion.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
          Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

          ..... that, in my opinion, is part of the problem. There are simply too many WSOs that aren't "special offers" at all.

          The WSO rules state that


          In my opinion external traffic should be driven to an external sales site where the product is on sale at a higher price for "the public at large".

          I suspect many WSOs are only ever sold here.

          Just enforcing rule 2 would cut the number of WSOs available, I would think. It would also mean that buyers would have greater confidence that they really ARE getting a special offer.

          As I said - just my opinion.
          Right on the money! There was hoopla about that in the old forum and I recall Allen Says saying that it was okay to mail our own list about a WSO but that's it (I think they said Twitter was ok).

          So technically if you're using external sources to drive traffic to your WSO then it's not a special offer to Warriors at all.

          But that's the difference from those who rely heavily if not entirely on WSO's for their online income and those who use it to test offers, products, or just offer Warriors a special offer.

          Originally Posted by steve995 View Post

          Interesting...

          It appears that I may fall into the 'doing something wrong ' category...perhaps by starting this 'challenging' thread?

          Within an hour of doing so, the mods wiped out my signature file which contained links to my WSO's! So beware - don't raise questions or make suggestions or your sig file could be unceremoniously canned as well.

          All very odd...

          Oh well, c'est la vie,

          Steve
          Sometimes when folks create posts about WSO's in the main forum it's to drive traffic to said WSO. I'm not saying you did that but I can see why the mods might be thinking that. But instead of tossing the entire thread they just removed your sig. So no need to be paranoid about starting this "challenging thread" especially since this topic comes up at least once a month so not really that challenging either.

          That of course is just my guess.
          Signature
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          • Profile picture of the author steve995
            Originally Posted by Alan Petersen View Post

            Sometimes when folks create posts about WSO's in the main forum it's to drive traffic to said WSO. I'm not saying you did that but I can see why the mods might be thinking that. But instead of tossing the entire thread they just removed your sig. So no need to be paranoid about starting this "challenging thread" especially since this topic comes up at least once a month so not really that challenging either.

            That of course is just my guess.
            Alan, George and everyone else who raised this,

            Yep, I can see how it could be taken that way although I'd actually deliberately waited until my WSO's were pretty well buried before starting this (it was written last week in fact).

            But fair point nevertheless and no fear - there's no paranoia, just amusement allied to a degree of bemusement!

            Like I said, c'est la vie,

            Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      I agree that the WSO is reflecting the industry in general--it's tougher
      to make any sales these days. More competition and a lot more skepticism
      as the market comes of age.

      It's no fun to see your offer scroll off the first page. Perhaps Allen could
      borrow Adsense algorithm so the better and higher bids get placed at
      the top of the page. Then the customers would determine what stays
      on the first page. I know this is just wishful thinking but every other
      'solution' has a drawback including the two forums of old and new WSOs.

      -Ray Edwards
      Allen doesn't get paid by sales volume he gets paid by post/bump volume ...
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  • Profile picture of the author xxxJamesxxx
    Although it's more competitive, you've got to remember the Warrior Forum community has grown, specially over the last 12 months due to the economic climate.

    So what does that mean?

    Although it is more competitive, there's also more "Eyeballs" on your offers at anyone time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Topper99
    For what it's worth, when I come to the WF I always note how many people are viewing and where. For years I've noticed that the number of people viewing the WSOs were usually 3x the viewers of the main discussion forum but lately it's been only 2x if even that. Could your lack of WSO success be merely due to fewer warriors interested in them?
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  • Profile picture of the author Imran Naseem
    Banned
    I would not rely my income solely on a WSO Forum.

    Use it as leverage, test the market, build a list, get some reviews.

    The WSO market is now competitive - you have to stand out from the crowd and offer quality WSOs at an affordable price.

    Gone are the days when people could crank out $2000 in a space of a day with a simple 10 paged report - times have changed. The market is not stupid - treat them like your friend, and life-long customer and they will always buy from you - everytime you post a WSO.
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  • Profile picture of the author LiamMcIvorMartin
    Instead of a two tiered system what about an identification system?

    So as an example, new wso's will be given a distinctive icon, colour, font size etc (you could test it)
    Bumped wso's could be given another icon identifying them as 'bumped' wso's.

    This has personally bugged me as well as when I'm checking out the new products, you can't really tell which ones are legitimately new from those that have been bumped unless you don't empty your link history.
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  • Profile picture of the author InternetM39482
    Not really dying actually. It's going through a change, like everything else.

    I've not experienced a dip in sales. Views, yes... but my overall sales have increased.

    People have to adapt. As far as the problems go - others have already said - the forum management is probably aware of that and they must be taking steps in the favor of this forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author tylerdrun
    what about keyword targetting to rank on Google. That will make it sell...
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  • Profile picture of the author PCRoger
    Ok, I've had a couple people ask me recently if there was a "how to succeed with a WSO" post somewhere.

    And since I have never done one, I didn't know where to send them.

    I suppose someone has a WSO on "how to do a successful WSO"?

    help appreciated.

    thanks,
    Roger.
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  • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
    Originally Posted by precious007 View Post

    I think that the most important part is "What You Have to offer"..

    I've seen dozens of WSO's that are complete BS, no wonders they can't be successful...

    Al.
    So true.

    They oftentimes utilize the marketing tactic of offering a hugely exaggerated sales copy/title, a crappy product, along with a very low price....

    The technique of such a low price is the fact that MANY people will purchase, and few will think it's not 'worth it' to ask for a refund..... "Ah, I'll just let it go...it ONLY cost $5 afterall...."
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

      So true.

      They oftentimes utilize the marketing tactic of offering a hugely exaggerated sales copy/title, a crappy product, along with a very low price....

      The technique of such a low price is the fact that MANY people will purchase, and few will think it's not 'worth it' to ask for a refund..... "Ah, I'll just let it go...it ONLY cost $5 afterall...."
      This technique doesn't do much for one's reputation, especially if they'd to be known for providing quality products and value to customers who will purchase over and over again....

      Not a worthwhile strategy, in the long run, IMHO....

      People get what they pay for.

      If you KNOW you have a good product, charge what you believe it is worth....and, don't be intimidated by all the crap $7 products out there....
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    • Profile picture of the author tjs1954
      You are likely to see more WSO's posted now-a-days, it's a tough economy out there and a lot of people who are out of work have turned to IM to try and pay their bills. Normally they wouldn't have the time if they were working 8+ hours every day.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Atkins
    Nah, the WSO section is getting more powerful if you ask me.

    If you post a WSO now it'll quickly move to the 2nd page that's true. A few
    months ago it didn't move that fast. But a few months ago the WSO section
    wasn't as active as it is now.

    The views for the section used to be at 300-600. Not it exceeds 1000
    a lot of time during the day, which means more exposure to your WSO.
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    I'll admit it can be discouraging to put in a lot of effort only to see a WSO scroll off the 1st page in a few hours. There is already a separate area to sell websites. Perhaps the WSO board can be split into topics:

    Money Making
    SEO and Backlinks
    Free Stuff
    Grab Bag

    .
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      I'll admit it can be discouraging to put in a lot of effort only to see a WSO scroll off the 1st page in a few hours. There is already a separate area to sell websites. Perhaps the WSO board can be split into topics:

      Money Making
      SEO and Backlinks
      Free Stuff
      Grab Bag

      .
      While browsing the offers in the past, I've thought if the offers were categorized it would help me find what I need. Then you'd have those who want them all in one category because they just want to browse and aren't looking for anything specific. Perhaps a main category where everything is listed as they are now, and separate sub-forums where offers are sorted by topic as you suggest.

      Offers would still fall off the main forum as fast as ever, but should stay longer on the sub-forum from pages. Allen could charge an extra fee to be listed in the sub-forums. I'd pay an extra $20 for that, at least the first time, until I could measure the results.

      Of course, anything that is done adds more layers of complexity, either on the back end or for users. Maybe it's best left alone. It's hard to speculate when we only see the user end.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        While browsing the offers in the past, I've thought if the offers were categorized it would help me find what I need. Then you'd have those who want them all in one category because they just want to browse and aren't looking for anything specific. Perhaps a main category where everything is listed as they are now, and separate sub-forums where offers are sorted by topic as you suggest.

        Offers would still fall off the main forum as fast as ever, but should stay longer on the sub-forum from pages. Allen could charge an extra fee to be listed in the sub-forums. I'd pay an extra $20 for that, at least the first time, until I could measure the results.

        Of course, anything that is done adds more layers of complexity, either on the back end or for users. Maybe it's best left alone. It's hard to speculate when we only see the user end.
        Ken & Dennis made a really good suggestion.On the whole I do think that the WSO forum as it stands needs a bit more stability for those who do post WSO's.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ricci Cox
    I think if you have an awesome product that delivers exactly what it promises - and helps people get what they want - then you will be successful and make money, whether that's through a WSO or in any niche you decide to launch a product in...

    In my experience, if you put the time and effort in and help people out - you will reap your rewards...
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    If you can't make a profit from $20 in a forum of this targeted nature, you're not in the right biz (i'm not speaking to you personally, just hypothetically).

    Secondly, what really matters is offering something of tremendous value and uniqueness, and the ability to write good headlines, despite the growing noise.

    The more everyone tries to parrot each other (which is happening more and more these days), the easier it is for those with creativity and a REAL USP.

    Finally, I think Warriors are smart enough to know the thread view thing. Even though I have no doubt it may influence eyeballs initially, Warriors still know what's going on.

    It wouldn't dwarf your offer, if your offer was and is good enough and strong enough to compete.

    And besides, people will always send their list traffic to the WSO thread when it goes live, which will inflate view counts, and you can't do much about that.

    On several ocassions, I would break even on VERY busy days, and I just kept paying, and investing, until I was getting traction.

    That's the price of such a targeted, responsive and proven marketplace at your finger tips.

    Personally, I'm surprised it's still only $20...you can't beat that price for the ROI on a good WSO.
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

      If you can't make a profit from $20 in a forum of this targeted nature, you're not in the right biz (i'm not speaking to you personally, just hypothetically).

      Secondly, what really matters is offering something of tremendous value and uniqueness, and the ability to write good headlines, despite the growing noise.

      The more everyone tries to parrot each other (which is happening more and more these days), the easier it is for those with creativity and a REAL USP.

      Finally, I think Warriors are smart enough to know the thread view thing. Even though I have no doubt it may influence eyeballs initially, Warriors still know what's going on.

      It wouldn't dwarf your offer, if your offer was and is good enough and strong enough to compete.

      And besides, people will always send their list traffic to the WSO thread when it goes live, which will inflate view counts, and you can't do much about that.

      On several ocassions, I would break even on VERY busy days, and I just kept paying, and investing, until I was getting traction.

      That's the price of such a targeted, responsive and proven marketplace at your finger tips.

      Personally, I'm surprised it's still only $20...you can't beat that price for the ROI on a good WSO.
      lol...don't say anything....you could jinx it....

      (I'm surprised too that it's only $20, as well...)
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  • Profile picture of the author Niche-Dominator
    I suppose it also depends how you optimise your WSO.

    I mean do you optimise it to pick up several opt-ins or just rely solely on the traffic for fast cash?

    I do like the idea of this 2 tier system though and I think if it were to go ahead and was explained in a post by Allen it could work. I for one often browse WSO's and would like the option to go and see new WSO's only if I wanted.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pragun
    AS far as i've noticed... the WSO section has started getting a lot less sales than it used to.
    I've posted quite a few of them, and they ALWAYS disappeared from sight in a matter of 4-6 hours. That, in my opinion, is not enough time for a WSO to gather enough eyeballs so as to be able to make a lot of sales.

    I've had to bump my WSOs like, 4-5 times before I was satisfied with the number of sales made...
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
      I'm just grateful we have a WF forum in it's entirety. There have been literally hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions made from this forum. Much less what the Warrior members have made outside the WF because of the foundation they established for their business here in the WF.

      This wheel is not broken nor is it dying. It is very much alive and well. No 2 tier system is needed or a personal evaluation of a WSO before it's launched. You and I are adults and we are responsible for our own actions.

      If you buy it and it stinks go after a refund, even if you have to do a charge back or open a dispute in PayPal or Clickbank.

      Ken Leatherman

      The Old Geezer
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  • Profile picture of the author Len Bailey
    The thread definitely isn't dying. I'm personally trying to carve out some time to put together a WSO myself ... it's just that the darn paying clients keep getting in the way.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
    The usual bleating:

    1) "Oh, I paid $20, and all I got was 3 hours on the front page"
    2) "Oh, I paid $20, and all I got was 3 sales"
    3) "Oh, I paid $20, and all I got was this lousy excuse"

    There's *nothing* wrong with the WSO format. At all.

    Like Nick said, if you can't turn a profit from your investment, you need to look at your:

    a) Offer - is it something people want?
    b) Copy - have you made those people realize it's something they need?

    ...before you start "blaming" the platform...take a look at a) and b)...

    Cheers,
    Steve
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    Not promoting right now

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  • Profile picture of the author SMP
    Hi All.

    I've not been a member here long enough to compare one WSO offer to another but it's worth remembering that this is THE largest forum of it's type online and, by definition, EVERY aspect of it is going to be busier than ever.

    I guess it's a question that's worth asking but I can't bring myself to complain when I have the same opportunity to promote myself and my products as everyone else.

    My preference is to post a WSO, bump it a few times, but concentrate on linking traffic to the offer through email marketing, blog posts, etc. This way I can make the WSO work for me even when it has slipped off the front page (which, as we all know, can happen pretty quickly).

    All the best,

    Steve.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stephen Dean
    Another way to make WSOs stay on the front page longer and reduce the number of bumps would be to simply increase the price.

    Raise the price of a WSO to $50 and you'll suddenly get more time at the top.

    Cheers,
    Stephen Dean
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
      Originally Posted by Stephen Dean View Post

      Another way to make WSOs stay on the front page longer and reduce the number of bumps would be to simply increase the price.

      Raise the price of a WSO to $50 and you'll suddenly get more time at the top.

      Cheers,
      Stephen Dean
      Now we get into economics, Steve.

      Maybe Allen reckons (until now, at least) that 20 beans is the best price. It keeps a healthy throughput, and makes a lot of folks a lot of money in the meantime. The dross falls by the wayside.

      I don't think the WSO board should pander to the whingers. Indeed, aren't you precisely the perfect type of WSO seller to make people realize they need to "increase their game" in order to compete effectively?
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      • Profile picture of the author Mario Brown
        No I don't think the WSO is dying.

        The first time that I made some real money online was when I launched my first WSO in March 2009. I've come a long way since then and even though I don't launch as many WSO's anymore, they still make me at least $100 a day because I now have higher price points.

        Like others I agree that it's more competitive right now, but that doesn't matter if you provide some great value and if you over-deliver.

        Make sure that your product is solid and always give more than what is expected from you & your product and you'll make a profit from your WSO, guaranteed!

        I love the WSO board and I do really appreciate all the money that comes from it.

        Cheers,
        Mario
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        ‎"Success is waking up in the morning, whoever you are, however old or young, and bounding out of bed because there's something out there that you love to do, that you believe in, that you're good at -- something that's bigger than you are, and you can't hardly wait to get at it again today." Whit Hobbs

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        • Profile picture of the author FredJones
          Totally agree. If you have a solid product, give more than expected, and provide great value by over-delivering then you are still the king.

          Not many things can make you rich and keep you rich for a long time like a great WSO with solid value, if you working in the IM niche.

          Originally Posted by yellowboy View Post

          No I don't think the WSO is dying.

          The first time that I made some real money online was when I launched my first WSO in March 2009. I've come a long way since then and even though I don't launch as many WSO's anymore, they still make me at least $100 a day because I now have higher price points.

          Like others I agree that it's more competitive right now, but that doesn't matter if you provide some great value and if you over-deliver.

          Make sure that your product is solid and always give more than what is expected from you & your product and you'll make a profit from your WSO, guaranteed!

          I love the WSO board and I do really appreciate all the money that comes from it.

          Cheers,
          Mario
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          • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
            Originally Posted by FredJones View Post

            Totally agree. If you have a solid product, give more than expected, and provide great value by over-delivering then you are still the king.

            Not many things can make you rich and keep you rich for a long time like a great WSO with solid value, if you working in the IM niche.
            Completely agree here, Fred.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              What I am about to say is probably not going to go down well with a lot of
              people who are pro WSO, but what the heck. I never did follow the crowd.

              Let's look at this objectively and for what it is.

              1. The WSO forum DOES move very fast these days. I've tracked it for
              some time now and an ad is usually off of page 1, depending on when
              you posted it, between 4 and 8 hours. That is a fact. It can't be disputed.

              Deal with it.

              2. Most people don't go beyond page 1 when viewing the WSO forum. That
              doesn't mean nobody goes past page 1, but very few do.

              3. Your $20, because of the new system, buys you that WSO for LIFE.

              It never gets deleted.

              Where else can you get an ad for $20 for life?

              I am still getting sales from a WSO that I haven't bumped in months.

              Okay, now for the REAL reality.

              If you are counting on making a killing with your WSO JUST from putting
              it out there and expecting a mob of people to see it and flock to it...

              STOP DREAMING.

              You need to promote your WSO just like you would anything else you do IF
              you want it to be successful.

              That means.

              1. Sending an email to your list.

              2. Tweeting about it.

              3. Blogging about it.

              4. Bookmarking it.

              5. Write a press release about it.

              The rules of the WSO forum says it has to be a better price than what the
              public at large can get.

              Nowhere does it state you can't bring the outside public TO the WSO
              forum.

              Let's be honest. The more people who come here, the more sales the forum
              makes and the more sales WE make.

              Heck, if the forum didn't want us to bring referrals, we wouldn't all get
              a referral link to do it with.

              As long as you don't have a sales page out there with YOUR WSO product
              at a lower price, nowhere does it say you can't advertise the WSO itself
              to get people to see it.

              You can't rely on the forum itself to make you sales, even if you DO have
              a killer offer and great salescopy.

              If nobody sees it, so what?

              So to those who think that's all you need, sorry, I don't agree. You need
              to do MORE today to compete in the WSO marketplace.

              All my WSOs are huge successes and I'm on page 1 the same amount of
              time that everybody else is.

              Why?

              Aside from having a great offer and great salescopy, I do all those 5 things
              AND MORE that I mentioned up top.

              Want to survive?

              Stop relying on this forum to do the work FOR you and start putting in
              some work of your own.

              Truth is, I don't even have to run WSOs anymore. Between those 5 items
              I've mentioned up top and a few other things I do, I could just slap
              together a sales page and be done with it and save my $20.

              My only reason for running a WSO is to target those few people who I
              wouldn't reach any other way.

              In short...if you're relying on the WSO forum, and this forum in particular
              for your income...you are in deep serious trouble.

              I know I'm going to get a lot of slack for some of the things I've said, but
              that's cool. I can take the heat.

              But everybody bitching about how fast the WSO forum moves better take
              a good, hard, long look at their screwed up business model.
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              • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                The rules of the WSO forum says it has to be a better price than what the public at large can get.

                Nowhere does it state you can't bring the outside public TO the WSO
                forum.
                Just curious. Why would you want to send people to your WSO when you would get more money by sending them to your external "public at large" sales page?
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

                  Just curious. Why would you want to send people to your WSO when you would get more money by sending them to your external "public at large" sales page?
                  Because people are looking for deals.

                  WSOs are deals.
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          • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
            Originally Posted by FredJones View Post

            Totally agree. If you have a solid product, give more than expected, and provide great value by over-delivering then you are still the king.

            Not many things can make you rich and keep you rich for a long time like a great WSO with solid value, if you working in the IM niche.
            Like THIS guy?

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  • Profile picture of the author Trent Brownrigg
    I think back in the "good old days" the WSO section was much better than it is now. Seems like more of a free for all and less organized than it was before the forum changed to this new format. But I guess there are reasons for every change. It's Allen's forum and he can do what he wants with it. I am sure he already knows everything being discussed here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Call me crazy, but speaking only for myself, I've always viewed the WSO forum as a way of giving back to the members by giving something of value at an insane discount and at the same time use it as a market test. But I'd like to think all my WSOs made a profit because the members saw the value.

    I realize some people try making a living off WSOs (which I think is a risky proposition) but it appears to me that some people miss the whole point of having a Warrior Special Offer forum. Which reminds me, I haven't had one in a loooooong time!

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    Economics...

    $20 times 120 posts = 2400 smackers (Allen loves it!)

    And thats every 12 to 24 hours....depending on how long it takes you to get to page 3.

    No matter what anyone says - if you can run an offer there and you can pay 20 bucks and make 40, then do it again, and again, and again.

    If you run it for 20 and make 200, or 1,000, how can you say it's not worth it or it's dying?

    Here's the thing: it's simple supply and demand. When the time you spend on page 1 gets down to an hour or so, THEN people will quit posting....which will automatically make the time on page one longer.

    Allen's system is a self balancing system. It works because it corrects itself.

    No worries and I think this takes care of this topic. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Emily Meeks
    Well, the forum is definitely evolving.

    I've only been here a year, so this is only speculation, but I believe when the WSO forum was first started it really was just that... a "Special Offer" forum. It still says so in the Rules ("This is not a Buy My Product Forum, it is a Special Offer forum), though these days some people ignore that and treat it as a Buy My Product forum. I'm not talking about those who create offers exclusively for Warriors - I'm talking about the people who, have heard from the grapevine that the WSO forum is an easy quick buck, so they scrape some crap PLR product together and slap a "How I make $500 a Day" tag on it, even if they haven't done the method themselves.

    I know there's been a lot of griping about low-quality WSOs as of late, but truth be told I think those who spew out low-quality material just to make quick cash get outed pretty easily. I remember even a free WSO awhile back where somebody posted a "How to Make $500/Day with CPA Offers", but there was no step-by-step, $500 was just a number he pulled out of thin-air so he could wave CPA 101 in our faces to get on his list. The way he pulled it off, I actually felt a bit bad for the guy - he took action, which was a step further than most newbies ever get, but ultimately he was hurting himself.

    Those who've been around the block here, know - if they provide a SPECIAL OFFER (as opposed to a Buy My Product Pretty Please with Whipped Cream and a Cherry) to expand their customer base as well as give back to the Warrior Forum, they will do well. This means though, that at the end of the day the WSO forum really isn't for beginners - it's not enough to just build up a reputation around here, but if you're going to teach how to make money online, you have to have made money online at some point. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I think it's pretty easy to tell who's made money by actually DOING the method they teach, as opposed to merely selling it.
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  • Profile picture of the author PCRoger
    MoneySoapBox:

    Well said, I've noticed some of the same things.
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  • Profile picture of the author Justin Michie
    WSO's used to be one the first page for 3 or 4 days, now I've seen them gone in hours... but I wouldn't say they're dying, just evolving.

    There's more potential for sales now then ever. There's more people browsing the forum then there used to be and with bumping, there's a lot more potential to get your offer in front of a lot more people and make a lot more sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Murphy
    Ok, here is a little (not so) secret to getting your WSO noticed. Its a simple formula:

    More Activity = More Views = More sales/signups.

    Try to get one or 2 warrior members to review your WSO, and remember to ALWAYS reply to every post made. A WSO thread without activity is as good as a dead whale, even if it is the best offer in the world. Hope that helps!
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    I have *significantly* cut back on my WSO postings, i have to admit that 2 or 3 hours on the first page can be very frustrating. Mind you, WSOs cost money...

    I also heard that some people literally conduct practices like "WSO bump services" aka bumping their (and others) WSOs in hourly intervals. I cant and dont want to compete with this crazyness.

    Furthermore there is a bigger influx of low quality WSOs (aka "e-whoring" and flaky CPA techniques) which i would rather not see in the WSO section.

    I myself already thought many times about that old and new WSOs should be separated. Frankly, i think *something* needs to be done.
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    • Profile picture of the author theemperor
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      I have *significantly* cut back on my WSO postings, i have to admit that 2 or 3 hours on the first page can be very frustrating. Mind you, WSOs cost money...

      I also heard that some people literally conduct practices like "WSO bump services" aka bumping their (and others) WSOs in hourly intervals. I cant and dont want to compete with this crazyness.

      Furthermore there is a bigger influx of low quality WSOs (aka "e-whoring" and flaky CPA techniques) which i would rather not see in the WSO section.

      I myself already thought many times about that old and new WSOs should be separated. Frankly, i think *something* needs to be done.
      I agree - low quality WSOs + negative comments on WSOs being deleted = trust in WF will be lost in the long term.

      I avoid looking at WSOs because I don't trust the system. The system used by most other sites (Amazon, Flippa etc.) works better where both positive and negative feedback is allowed.

      I posted probing questions on WSOs to have them deleted by the mods. We surely wouldn't want a tough question to harm the success of a WSO now would we?
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      • Profile picture of the author admin
        Administrator
        Originally Posted by theemperor View Post

        I agree - low quality WSOs + negative comments on WSOs being deleted = trust in WF will be lost in the long term.

        I avoid looking at WSOs because I don't trust the system. The system used by most other sites (Amazon, Flippa etc.) works better where both positive and negative feedback is allowed.

        I posted probing questions on WSOs to have them deleted by the mods. We surely wouldn't want a tough question to harm the success of a WSO now would we?
        Your post is absolutely wrong. If you are on a WSO thread throwing out accusations without ever "buying" the wso and the owner of the thread reports it, then yes, your posts may be deleted. You can read about that in the rules.

        If you are saying the mods have time to go around deleting all negative posts in wso's you are very mistaken.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
        Originally Posted by theemperor View Post

        I agree - low quality WSOs + negative comments on WSOs being deleted = trust in WF will be lost in the long term.

        I avoid looking at WSOs because I don't trust the system. The system used by most other sites (Amazon, Flippa etc.) works better where both positive and negative feedback is allowed.

        I posted probing questions on WSOs to have them deleted by the mods. We surely wouldn't want a tough question to harm the success of a WSO now would we?
        If you bought the WSO you can leave feedback, good or bad. I've seen plenty of WSO's with negative feedback from customers.

        If you didn't buy it then how can you or anyone else really offer constructive feedback?

        Everyone loves the Amazon rating system (myself included) but the reality is a lot of those ratings are fake anyway.

        A big corporation like Belkin was busted buying positive "reviews" and paying to counter-attack negative reviews for their products:

        Belkin issues apology for paid review scandal - TechSpot News

        You don't think that a review/rating system for WSO's wouldn't be gamed? So I can see and support why Allen Says doesn't do this. You would have shoddy peeps trying to harm competitors WSO's and fake positive reviews/ratings. Amazon can't even stop it. You expect volunteer mods to manage it? Yea right.

        The bulk of WSO's are less than $20. Most if not all of them offer refunds. Common sense goes a long way to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to WSO's.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave d
    Personally Im in this for the long haul. I see the WSO section as the cheapest way to get an insane amount of laser targeted traffic to something you have to offer. If you only get 2 - 3 hours exposure then your offer, title and sales page etc should be designed around this fact in order for you to get the most out of the system ie you should offer quality and the rest will take care of itself.

    I will then use whatever feedback, cash and optins etc to further develop my product or business to make more money either within the WF or outside.

    Just my 0.02
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  • Profile picture of the author john_luckfield
    This may be hard to admit but it can be somewhat expected as OUR FORUM is Arguably the best FORUM around.. =)

    But in another light yes it does take some effort to not pay attention to every new tom, dick and sally that comes into our forum... :/

    The main thing is that Allen continues to encourage Respectful Behavior among members...haha
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  • Profile picture of the author Heavy S
    I am not so sure that it would take more moderation. If so it would be minimal. I mean 100 posts is 100 posts no matter what category they are in. You still have to moderate 100 posts.

    I do see this as a possible hassle though for the newbies though. I mean everyone going into the "NEW" wso thread would be on guard prior to even entering. That could hurt the "new players"

    If you do some research into these forums, you can see a trend of the times people post heavy in the wso thread. They are trying to get their ad out while the most people are online. IMHO this is NOT the best route to take. Find the times/days that are light on new posts(avoid Tuesday afternoons) and your post will get a lot more exposure..


    If you do some research, I am sure you can find the trends easy enough. This game has a huge learning curve and proper research is required to be successful. I think 20 bucks is a pretty cheap lesson

    The other thing I would do personally( I am not in the work from home niche) is get review copies out to a few of the heavy posters here before you even make your posts in WSO. You will be able to judge from that the success levels of your product(assuming you have a good pitch) not to mention, having a few people with thousands of posts say your product is good, could be the difference between success and failure.

    One last note: I think the new people need to watch out for posting their product near any of the "guru's" if possible. What I mean is if I see 2 ads posted for " Backlinking secrets" for example and one is by Joe blow(hope you are not a real member) and one by a Marketing super power, chances are Joe is not going to do well.

    This is all just the observation of a new member.

    PS Thanks to the guy who introduced me to the forums. His product was crap but the one sentence (check out the Warrior Forums) was awesome. Reading the forum posts from long time members is incredible. It is probably the only unbiased review of these products you will find on the net.. THANKS TO ALL!
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Dolan
    A free or bargain basement might be a good idea. Lets face it free or $1 products are list builders - whereas products with some greater value come with a higher price point for a reason, maintenance of product, value, support etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author hypnosisqueen
    Banned
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  • Profile picture of the author Fallen_Angel
    Internet Marketing is not dying. Its changing, change with it or sink. More emphasis on quality. More attention to specifics about users,
    for instance Today 7-10% of surfers are on a mobile device. Maybe you should target mobile users, or products aimed at mobile users.
    Or change your approach ie if you have an seo business for instance find a bunch of sites very low in search engines and email the owner and make them an offer to get them in 1st page. Use direct selling methods to gain marketshare.
    Think outside the box, think from the customer point of view.
    Hope that helps.
    Another fact, more people use internet than watch TV in North America. If anything the internet is alive and well, we just need to find products people actually want.
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Originally Posted by Fallen_Angel View Post

      Internet Marketing is not dying. Its changing, change with it or sink. More emphasis on quality. More attention to specifics about users,
      for instance Today 7-10% of surfers are on a mobile device. Maybe you should target mobile users, or products aimed at mobile users.
      Or change your approach ie if you have an seo business for instance find a bunch of sites very low in search engines and email the owner and make them an offer to get them in 1st page. Use direct selling methods to gain marketshare.
      Think outside the box, think from the customer point of view.
      Hope that helps.
      Another fact, more people use internet than watch TV in North America. If anything the internet is alive and well, we just need to find products people actually want.
      Good points, fallen angel....

      Not sure if they meant "all of Internet marketing is dying" with this thread, or JUST "WSOs" (I don't believe they are...)....but, still good points....

      The wise and prudent IM'er, I truly believe, needs to flexible and change with changing times....

      Sometimes it's not such a bad thing to go against the grain a bit....and take an diligent and educated approach to doing the opposite, or something 'different', than what others advocate, in general. Of course, you can catch trends, like an exploding stock, but, sometimes it doesn't hurt to be a pioneer or trend-setter, if you know what I mean

      oh, and the internet is expanding each and every day and holds a tremendous amount of potential....don't feel like there isn't room for you or your ideas (anyone)....
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