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Popular advice we give Newbies - Past vs Present

by Ron Douglas
40 replies
One of the most difficult things for even a highly successful marketer to do is to instruct a newbie to actually make money online. Sure, you can provide a step by step proven plan that works, but you can't make someone succeed. Short of actually doing the work for them, success is still their responsibility and some people simply want it more than others.

No teacher of Internet Marketing has a 100% success rate with their newbie customers. In fact, it's probably more like a 5% success rate at best.

That being said, I've been around long enough to compare the common instructions that used to be given to newbies versus what is popular to teach now.

I thought that this would make a good discussion:

What are your thoughts on the Old vs New strategy for Newbies?

Note: Yes I know that people still do both, but I'm just referring to the popular thing being taught now versus then. Work with me here folks

Old Strategy:

1) Find a problem in a niche market (preferably one you are passionate about)

2) Create (or pay for) an information product that offers a solution

3) Put up a website that sells and delivers the product. Get the sales copy done (or do it yourself), signup with Clickbank, PayPal etc.

4) Give away something for free for the people who don't buy and build a list. Have an autoresponder sequence that reinforces why they should buy and has a call to action.

5) Network with people in the niche

6) Contact JV partners/affiliates who can promote your product and make a win win offer.

7) Invest your profits back into advertising (PPC, Ezine Ads, etc)

8) Use additional methods to get traffic (SEO, Articles sent directly to ezine owners, link exchanges, affiliate directories, traffic exchanges)

New Strategy:

1) Find a niche market based on long tail keywords that have traffic and not too much competition. Preferably buyers keywords and or product related keywords.

2) Put up a blog targeting those keywords with an article and page for each keyword.

3) Build (or outsource) links to those individual pages with the keywords in the anchor text (social bookmarks, profile page links, .edu sites, blog comments, forum posts, directory submissions, UAW articles, etc.)

4) Write articles and create content to post on authority sites & social networking sites and try to rank for those keywords. Have a resource box or call to action with a link that brings people to your site.

5) Build some links to the authority site pages that are linking to your site (social bookmarks, profile page links, .edu sites, blog comments, forum posts, directory submissions etc.)

6) Monetize with related affiliate products, CPA offers, Adsense, Amazon, etc.

7) Rinse and repeat with new blogs
#advice #give #newbies #past #present
  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Hey Ron,

    I think old school is still way more sensible and robust.

    Too many people focus on search engines and search marketing when in reality that's probably changing more now than ever before and set to keep changing.

    I think focusing on finding problems and providing solutions is the core of making money. Too much focus on tools and IM strategies leads to a business model that can be seriously upset by other people changing what they do.

    Let's look at 2 examples:

    1 - EZA shuts down.

    Anyone relying on them for article marketing traffic suddenly get a kick in the teeth.

    2 - Google change their algorithms or their servers get a virus and stop working.

    All seo focused business gets shafted.

    If you're not finding and building a list of real people and solving real problems - you go out of business.

    Making your business completely revolve around search engines and traffic puts most of the ability to control results out of your hands and totally at the mercy of other people.

    A bit like people who made great money with Adsense and then ended up needing to get a job because their income suddenly stopped.

    Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      I don't recall where I saw this, but I think it fits here...

      Whichever way you choose to go, if you try to instruct newbies, keep this in your mind:

      "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."
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      • Profile picture of the author Winlin
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post


        "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."
        Brilliant ! Thank You
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    • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      A bit like people who made great money with Adsense and then ended up needing to get a job because their income suddenly stopped.
      HAHAA!! There you go again You really don't like Adsense, do you? Well, here's a thread that bolsters your point of view, at least partially: Do NOT make thin adsense sites - Make Money Online Forum

      TomG.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by tommygadget View Post

        HAHAA!! There you go again You really don't like Adsense, do you? Well, here's a thread that bolsters your point of view, at least partially: Do NOT make thin adsense sites - Make Money Online Forum

        TomG.
        Hi Tom,

        I don't have a problem with Adsense. I like getting my cheques. I just hate seeing people given it as some sort of easy answer to making money when most people don't do well with it and the ones who do often come unstuck.
        I was making $1200 a day from Adsense at one point but it was never my main revene stream, I just like testing tools and creating different revenue streams, so I naturally included Adsense methods.

        But I have seen people get hit really hard when they've thought their Adsense income would keep coming and then Google tweak and algorithm and it disappeared on them overnight and caused them real problems.

        It never had a bad effect on me but I'm not posting here for my own benefit.

        Andy
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      • Profile picture of the author madison_avenue
        Originally Posted by tommygadget View Post

        HAHAA!! There you go again You really don't like Adsense, do you? Well, here's a thread that bolsters your point of view, at least partially: Do NOT make thin adsense sites - Make Money Online Forum

        TomG.
        Hi Tommy,

        Thanks for that link to the article, that's a great discussion there!
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    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Hey Ron,

      I think old school is still way more sensible and robust.

      Too many people focus on search engines and search marketing when in reality that's probably changing more now than ever before and set to keep changing.

      I think focusing on finding problems and providing solutions is the core of making money. Too much focus on tools and IM strategies leads to a business model that can be seriously upset by other people changing what they do.

      Let's look at 2 examples:

      1 - EZA shuts down.

      Anyone relying on them for article marketing traffic suddenly get a kick in the teeth.

      2 - Google change their algorithms or their servers get a virus and stop working.

      All seo focused business gets shafted.

      If you're not finding and building a list of real people and solving real problems - you go out of business.

      Making your business completely revolve around search engines and traffic puts most of the ability to control results out of your hands and totally at the mercy of other people.

      A bit like people who made great money with Adsense and then ended up needing to get a job because their income suddenly stopped.

      Andy
      That makes a lot of sense and I have to admit that I've pointed newbies to the new busines model with the intent that it is only a STARTING point.

      The problem I've seen is that they seem to get overwhelmed by the old way as there are a lot more skills required. It sounds like you haven't seen that problem?
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by markquinn View Post

        That makes a lot of sense and I have to admit that I've pointed newbies to the new busines model with the intent that it is only a STARTING point.

        The problem I've seen is that they seem to get overwhelmed by the old way as there are a lot more skills required. It sounds like you haven't seen that problem?
        Actually I see that a lot. But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't do it.

        It's part of the bigger problem in this niche - many people come in to IM thinking they don't need to work it like a proper business and can cut all the corners and short cut their success.

        This just isn't true for most people.

        People are being sold the false dream and hoping that they can do well without working hard.

        I don't believe taking the easy option is the right answer because it builds a belief that you can treat IM as a hobby and still build a successful business.

        In my opinion people are much better off biting the bullet and building a proper business online rather than trying to do anything that will make money.

        I think of it in much the same way as you could tell someone how to get free government money and disability benefits by knowing what to tell a doctor in order to get signed off work and live off benefits.

        That's a really easy and lazy way to get money and some people think they've created this easy way to fool the system and that they've succeeded.
        However, they miss the massive limitations they've put on their future and their income by choosing that lazy way to get quick free money.

        I would always suggest that getting that short term apparent gain is the wrong choice when you have the option to be really happy and successful living a life without limits on your future.

        What seems like an easy way can take you away from your true path to success.
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        • Profile picture of the author psresearch
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post


          I would always suggest that getting that short term apparent gain is the wrong choice when you have the option to be really happy and successful living a life without limits on your future.

          What seems like an easy way can take you away from your true path to success.
          What about starting newbies with building a list and promoting affiliate products to it first and then go into the product creation/JV steps after that?

          Or would you still consider that emphasizing the wrong mindset still?
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

            But I have seen people get hit really hard when they've thought their Adsense income would keep coming and then Google tweak and algorithm and it disappeared on them overnight and caused them real problems.
            Don't forget the growing number of people who, due to things beyond their control, have been labeled a "risk to advertisers" and banned from Adsense with no further explanation...
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          • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
            Originally Posted by markquinn View Post

            What about starting newbies with building a list and promoting affiliate products to it first and then go into the product creation/JV steps after that?

            Or would you still consider that emphasizing the wrong mindset still?
            Again, that's only 1/2 a story.

            There are dozens of ways to build a list (giveaways, ppc, seo, forum marketing, ad swaps, etc. etc.)

            So saying it to people still isn't really helping them build a business.

            Having a list isn't a business, it's just a list and I've built lists of over 1 million people that made less money than one JV promotion, so I wouldn't tell people that building a list should be their main focus if they still don't have a solid business to build that list for.

            I know that might be different to all the "the money's in the list" hype that you'll see around, but I'm not saying it to sell anything or support my ego, just to help people get a realistic approach to online business.

            Andy
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Both work. Both have their pros and cons.

              I do both. In fact, I do a lot of things that most people would cringe at.

              I never was one to follow the pack and don't intend to start now. I'm not
              against trying out anything once. If I get even a little bit from it, I'll keep
              doing it until it conks out on me.

              Truth is, those two blueprints are just a fraction of what you can do to make
              a buck online, which is what makes Internet marketing so wonderful.

              So what I do, as far as instructing newbies, is look to see where there
              interests and strengths are FIRST and THEN I come up with a plan custom
              made for them.

              For example, one guy I was working with was good with video, so I
              developed a whole video marketing campaign for him. I wouldn't do this
              with somebody who doesn't even know how to create a powerpoint
              presentation.

              I think the biggest problem with IM for newbies is that people try to
              pigeon hole them into a system that may not work for them. I've learned,
              through many failures, not to do this.

              Anything can work if you put enough effort into it.

              It's the effort itself that is lacking in many newbies.

              Not the system.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Hey Ron,

      I think old school is still way more sensible and robust.

      Too many people focus on search engines and search marketing when in reality that's probably changing more now than ever before and set to keep changing.

      I think focusing on finding problems and providing solutions is the core of making money. Too much focus on tools and IM strategies leads to a business model that can be seriously upset by other people changing what they do.

      Let's look at 2 examples:

      1 - EZA shuts down.

      Anyone relying on them for article marketing traffic suddenly get a kick in the teeth.

      2 - Google change their algorithms or their servers get a virus and stop working.

      All seo focused business gets shafted.

      If you're not finding and building a list of real people and solving real problems - you go out of business.

      Making your business completely revolve around search engines and traffic puts most of the ability to control results out of your hands and totally at the mercy of other people.

      A bit like people who made great money with Adsense and then ended up needing to get a job because their income suddenly stopped.

      Andy
      Great points here, Andy. I think you have hit it right on the Nail. Thats why I am personally getting away from just straight SEO to my Blogs. SEO wil still (and always) be my main Focus but I am branching out with Authority Blogs and addressing real needs that people are looking for. Email marketing is one of my main focuses these days.

      Also, I am part of a few Programs where I am making consistent, residual income( similar to MLM but different) and they are building up to a point where they are self substaining in of themselves. In other wards, if any of my Blogs get delisted by the Google algorithms, these programs will still continue to earn for me.

      One of them is Cashcrate which is a simple GPT site Program. I have been with them for over two years now and my referral income has really built up nicely. Even if I dont get new sigups with my Banner Ad on my Blog ,this residual income will keep on earning for me.

      IM is all about being prudent and having several income streams developed, including some that are totally independant of PPC, Article Marketing, and SEO !!

      This strategy will keep you in this Game longer and cause you to NOT have to pack it in and go back to the 9 to 5 grind !!
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    • Profile picture of the author agc
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Hey Ron,

      I think old school is still way more sensible and robust.

      Too many people focus on search engines and search marketing when in reality that's probably changing more now than ever before and set to keep changing.

      I think focusing on finding problems and providing solutions is the core of making money. Too much focus on tools and IM strategies leads to a business model that can be seriously upset by other people changing what they do.

      Let's look at 2 examples:

      1 - EZA shuts down.

      Anyone relying on them for article marketing traffic suddenly get a kick in the teeth.

      2 - Google change their algorithms or their servers get a virus and stop working.

      All seo focused business gets shafted.

      If you're not finding and building a list of real people and solving real problems - you go out of business.

      Making your business completely revolve around search engines and traffic puts most of the ability to control results out of your hands and totally at the mercy of other people.

      A bit like people who made great money with Adsense and then ended up needing to get a job because their income suddenly stopped.

      Andy
      In terms of risk analysis your two examples given are, like, ZERO risk factors. Why? Because they have wayyyy more skin in their game than I do. EZA makes mega money off their business model. It won't be "shut down". Ditto for Google. Short of a nuclear device hitting mountainview, Google will overcome all virus, ddos, and other problems far more expeditiously than my own sites will.

      This is also why I host at a major provider. When the internet wars flare up, I may be hit momentarily, but I can count on them to take care of it quickly.

      That said, adsense is everything that is evil about Google. It usually pays the most for the least effort, so we let ourselves get addicted to it.

      But Google is capricious and opaque. "Your income has been terminated, by us, and we won't tell you why, and there is nothing you can do about it. You can beg us to reinstate you, and maybe we will or maybe we won't, but whatever happens there will be no transparency and no accountability on our part. Suck eggs and get happy."

      By operating in a complete cloak of secrecy, and above any and all recourse and accountability to any publicly visible due process, they become a huge cancerous blight on good public policy.

      I personally do everything I can to monetize away from Google. But it's not easy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
    I think that the old way is better than the new one.

    Through old school marketing you are building a business of your own but through the new strategies and tricks you are building a business that relies on someone else's business.
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  • Profile picture of the author jesila
    Past and present is totally different. Never to think about past and live your self in present. past also gives regards but present is always with us. this truth will have to accept it.
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    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      Originally Posted by jesila View Post

      Past and present is totally different. Never to think about past and live your self in present. past also gives regards but present is always with us. this truth will have to accept it.
      Ummm. So you favor the new model then?
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      • Profile picture of the author butters
        If you mix both together, what does that equal , I do mix both together personally.
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  • Profile picture of the author vfelcett
    I feel that if you have a plan and do things one at a time, it is better than going and trying all the information at once.
    There is way too much info on the internet for people that are looking into Internet Marketing and it's usually best to start with trial and error one thing at a time to see what works for you!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Owen
    The online landscape is constantly changing but a few golden rules have stayed the same (and will stay the same forever):

    1) Keep a mindset of positivity and quality when it comes to interacting with your customers/clients.

    2) DO more than you READ.

    3) Learn to regard failure as beneficial, because it is the greatest teacher
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    The "New" strategy you listed Ron, is, apart from step 1, just a form of getting traffic using SEO and social media.

    So the real answer is...

    Do steps 1 - 8 of Old Strategy, and then move onto steps 2-8 on the New Strategy.

    As Andy said - relying on certain ad platforms or ad revenue, social media, or any other strategy other than building assets which are under your full dictation, is a waste of time, and a big risk...IF that is all you are doing.

    Don't agonize over the icing, if you haven't got a sponge cake to put it on.

    The New Strategy you described falls into that category, and it's not really grounded in anything other than getting traffic using temporary distribution channels (I say temporary, because the landscape is shifting faster than any marketer can keep up with).

    However, doing deals, building relationships, and owning products will never fail to work...unless human psychology and our core needs fundamentally change first.
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    • Profile picture of the author DeonKrey
      Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

      The "New" strategy you listed Ron, is, apart from step 1, just a form of getting traffic using SEO and social media.

      So the real answer is...

      Do steps 1 - 8 of Old Strategy, and then move onto steps 2-8 on the New Strategy.

      As Andy said - relying on certain ad platforms or ad revenue, social media, or any other strategy other than building assets which are under your full dictation, is a waste of time, and a big risk...IF that is all you are doing.

      Don't agonize over the icing, if you haven't got a sponge cake to put it on.

      The New Strategy you described falls into that category, and it's not really grounded in anything other than getting traffic using temporary distribution channels (I say temporary, because the landscape is shifting faster than any marketer can keep up with).

      However, doing deals, building relationships, and owning products will never fail to work...unless human psychology and our core needs fundamentally change first.
      I have to agree with this. Applying the same old school aspects to evolve around Internet Marketing has always been part of succeeding online but you don't have to stick with these "little" steps but you just have to move forward and reapply it through the new ones since results vary from time to time as with Google's.

      Thus, I wouldn't be omitting any step but I'll be adapting every step to those new aspects so surely it'll fit my business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Popstar
    Ron,

    The new strategy you listed is more busywork than business plan. Although I'd probably tweak the advice in the old strategy you listed, I believe that's the one most likely to result in a solid business.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Ron,

      It appears the OLD strategy actually has some elements in it that are good for searchers (1 & 2).


      The NEW strategy?...Not so much.

      ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Jensen
    I spit my slurpee out on the screen reading the original post. I've definitely noticed the exact same thing and I've followed in suit. I started off with Adwords in 2003 but I couldn't much money because I didn't know how to do it. I'd give my left "" if I could go back to 2003 with the knowledge I have now.

    So then I started with things like article marketing and seo and worked on that for about 1.5 to 2 years. Now I am doing both seo and ppc traffic. I noticed that I quickly doubled the money I was making every day when I went back and started doing Adwords again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bryan Zimmerman
      I think one part that is missing from both the "new" and "old" is to focus on tweaking your system to get more conversions. Once you have tested and tweaked your squeeze page, follow up emails and sales page to the point where you know it converts, it's all about targeted traffic from anywhere you can get it and as much as you can get. That could be paid, free or both.

      Have the patience to test until you know you have something that converts (and it takes TIME) and every single one of those will work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jim Gillum
    I believe that one component that is missing from both systems (sic)

    Is that many people do not understand the basics of business in general.....
    They hear of the gold rush of the internet and run out to seek their fortune...

    They buy into the hype programs and do not understand ...."Rome wasn't built in a day"
    Hence the 95% failure rate....

    The basic business model of opening a brick and mortar (although modified by the expedience of the net) still applies....

    Some people are just not suited to run a business....
    It is difficult to be an "employee" for years and then jump to business owner...
    They can learn....but it takes time...
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    I'm glad I'm not receiving this old / new advice.

    It is missing the big money makers

    There are many other models using the same skill set you do not mention.

    1) creating a membership community
    2) offering bonuses as an affiliate
    3) selling to offline businesses
    4) buy and sell

    I teach new internet marketers
    ('newbies' is a very condescending term)
    the following core skills:

    Mindset (business / entrepreneur)
    Research (offers / competitors / keywords)
    Content (text / audio / video)
    Websites (blog / affiliate sites / third party sites)
    Traffic (paid / free / borrowed)
    Conversions (copy / list / sales)
    Leverage (outsource / automate / high end strategy)

    These core skills can be applied to many
    different yet profitable strategies.

    New Internet marketers should learn these skills
    the best they can then they are in control of
    their own destiny without being shown just
    one (limited) strategy.
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    • Profile picture of the author rafib
      Originally Posted by James Schramko View Post

      I'm glad I'm not receiving this old / new advice.

      It is missing the big money makers

      There are many other models using the same skill set you do not mention.

      1) creating a membership community
      2) offering bonuses as an affiliate
      3) selling to offline businesses
      4) buy and sell

      I teach new internet marketers
      ('newbies' is a very condescending term)
      the following core skills:

      Mindset (business / entrepreneur)
      Research (offers / competitors / keywords)
      Content (text / audio / video)
      Websites (blog / affiliate sites / third party sites)
      Traffic (paid / free / borrowed)
      Conversions (copy / list / sales)
      Leverage (outsource / automate / high end strategy)

      These core skills can be applied to many
      different yet profitable strategies.

      New Internet marketers should learn these skills
      the best they can then they are in control of
      their own destiny without being shown just
      one (limited) strategy.
      Good post mate.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
      Originally Posted by James Schramko View Post

      I'm glad I'm not receiving this old / new advice.

      It is missing the big money makers

      There are many other models using the same skill set you do not mention.

      1) creating a membership community
      2) offering bonuses as an affiliate
      3) selling to offline businesses
      4) buy and sell
      Obviously. I was only referring to the most popular models that are taught to new people. They have to start somewhere. Instructing them to start with a membership community or by selling to offline businesses may not be ideal for most new internet marketers.
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    as a person thinks, so are they - a common denominator in success regardless of business model, old or new and business type on line or offline.
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    | > Choosing to go off the grid for a while to focus on family, work and life in general. Have a great 2020 < |
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    The same goes for Paypal.
    Many IMers only get revenue from people paying with Paypal - but many people have found their Paypal accounts closed or suspended with no notice and thousands of dollars locked up for months.

    So diversifying the way you get paid is also an important consideration.
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    nothing to see here.

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    • Profile picture of the author Vis
      Originally Posted by JsamsonNJ View Post

      Andy,

      Probably best for another place however since it was brought up here, what other really good alternatives to Paypal are there?
      Not in order...

      AlertPay
      Google Checkout
      TrailPay
      eJunkie
      Moneybookers

      Quality varies so you may need to research before investing...
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  • Profile picture of the author RCormacko
    You could say the new method relies too much on Google or EZA. But then, you could say that the new method takes advantage of these resources and the state of the web at the moment. Every business has to move with the times, the amount depends on the approach.
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  • Profile picture of the author paul wolfe
    The same goes for Paypal.
    Many IMers only get revenue from people paying with Paypal - but many people have found their Paypal accounts closed or suspended with no notice and thousands of dollars locked up for months.

    So diversifying the way you get paid is also an important consideration.
    Hey

    Is this still the case with PayPal?

    This is how I get paid online - and it would be a royal pain in the ass if something like that were to happen. were can I found out more info on that...




    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
      Originally Posted by paul wolfe View Post

      Hey

      Is this still the case with PayPal?

      This is how I get paid online - and it would be a royal pain in the ass if something like that were to happen. were can I found out more info on that...

      Paul
      If you have a history of running a legitimate business with a normal chargeback and complaint rate, you don't have much to worry about with PayPal. Give them a call if you're concerned:

      Customer Service: Call (888) 221-1161
      Sales: Call (866) 837-1863
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    • Profile picture of the author nuz
      Originally Posted by paul wolfe View Post

      Hey

      Is this still the case with PayPal?

      This is how I get paid online - and it would be a royal pain in the ass if something like that were to happen. were can I found out more info on that...




      Paul

      I had an issue where I paid for a product that was not what I thought it was and asked the vendor for a refund.

      The vendor refunded the $500 and paypal put a hold on my account saying one or more of my sites are not complying.

      I kindly informed them that I didn't care anything about what my sites were doing. That money came out of my bank account and is not earned income and they need to release my money immediately and then cancel my account.

      A couple of days later my money was released and account remained open.

      So I say that to say "YES!" it still happens.

      Imagine if it were earned money and not money out of my account. Then what?

      Check with Clickbank as means of receiving money as well.
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      Click here to see the system a mom of six uses to really make money online
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  • Profile picture of the author Vis
    I think the first thing to learn internet marketing is to UNLEARN or FORGET what you have heard about it. Many "claims" or "rules" in internet marketing have constantly changed to some degree and have no longer that guarantee of "BIG" money flowing to you.

    Start getting more time into social groups of your interests. You will find many people asking questions or needing something very specific that you alone know the answer or its whereabouts.
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