Copyright Question - Someone Stole My Content...

[Derek Thomas]

I noticed earlier today that a kind fellow has blatantly ripped off my sales copy from a WSO I'm running here in the Forum, and is now selling something of his own via a Blogger blog. Poor deuche even forgot to replace my name with his in one place.

I cannot confirm what he has or has not done with the product itself, as it seems he may have merged a couple of things together (probably someone else's WSO), but the copy itself is 90% mine (including testimonials where he replaced his name with mine)

I reported the abuse of the blog and was led to file a DMCA complaint. On the DMCA site I read this...

Please note that you will be liable for damages (including costs and attorneys' fees) if you materially misrepresent that a product or activity is infringing your copyrights. Indeed, in a recent case (please see Online Policy Group v. Diebold for more information), a company that sent an infringement notification seeking removal of online materials that were protected by the fair use doctrine was ordered to pay such costs and attorneys fees. The company agreed to pay over $100,000. Accordingly, if you are not sure whether material available online infringes your copyright, we suggest that you first contact an attorney.

My question...

(1) I understand anything you publish online (whether or not it is officially "registered" is copyrighted. Is this correct?

(2) Would the sales copy of my WSO thread somehow fall under the "fair use doctrine"? I doubt it seriously, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

Thanks everyone,
Derek

[writesuccess]

I've filed many DMCA complaints over the years because I post articles on free article directories and when I find my article has been republished somewhere online and changed when it's been published, or doesn't have my name as the author or doesn't have my author's resource box attached, then I file a DMCA complaint to the hosting company if the web site owner doesn't remove my article when asked.

I'm no attorny but I do know that "fair use" means only to quote a small amount of your work, like a paragraph or two. But to copy most of it or to alter it in some way so that they can pretend it's theirs is not on.

All hosting companies use that threat of costs being incurred if your lying. But as long as you can prove in your DMCA complaint that you wrote the sales information first (by providing the URL of where it was originally published and, if possible, provide the T&C of the web site where it states that all work on the web site is copyrighted and cannot be publisehd) and that someone has used it without your permission, then you should be OK.

All the other person's hosting company will do is forward your complaint to the web site owner (so don't include any private contact info in it) and then the site owner has to either take your work down or file their own statement stating why they believe they believe you are lying.

I suppose if they do that then the whole thing has to be taken to court, which so far has never happened to me because all the work I have complained about was mine and had already been published online by me long before it was stolen so no one could argue that I was lying.

It's just that a DMCA complaint is a legal document and if you're lying about anything, then it can be said to be perjury (or something like that).

But as long as you're telling the truth and your work has been stolen (and it was alot more than a sentence or two) then I'd say go ahead and make the complaint.

Writing always comes under Intellectual Property Law, which basically means, that if you wrote it first, then you own it. So no one can legally steal your writing any more than they are allowed to steal your car.

Being able to prove that the work is legally copyrighted to you would help but it's not always necessary if you can show that it was yours to start with and the web site you posted it on has a copyright clause in it's terms & conditions page.

In my experience, once I issue a DMCA complaint the matter is resolved, and the writing removed, in 24 to 48 hours.

But good luck with it all anyway.

[Mac Wheeler]

I think the situation is a little more complicated, are forum posts actually subject to copyright in the same sense as other content? A WSO is a forum post.

I've done a little searching, and in theory the actual words you place in a forum post come under intellectual copyright laws.

However, by posting them to a forum you will have been deemed to agree to the forum operators conditions, which could include owning the content, and will certainly include retaining the right to edit or remove it entirely.

Then again, you are actually paying to post the WSO so I guess that changes things and makes it even more complicated.

A bit of a grey area I am afraid.

My gut feeling is that there is not much you can do about it.

[Floyd Fisher]

Originally Posted by derek.ifocus

I noticed earlier today that a kind fellow has blatantly ripped off my sales copy from a WSO I'm running here in the Forum, and is now selling something of his own via a Blogger blog. Poor deuche even forgot to replace my name with his in one place.

I cannot confirm what he has or has not done with the product itself, as it seems he may have merged a couple of things together (probably someone else's WSO), but the copy itself is 90% mine (including testimonials where he replaced his name with mine)

I reported the abuse of the blog and was led to file a DMCA complaint. On the DMCA site I read this...



My question...

(1) I understand anything you publish online (whether or not it is officially "registered" is copyrighted. Is this correct?

(2) Would the sales copy of my WSO thread somehow fall under the "fair use doctrine"? I doubt it seriously, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

Thanks everyone,
Derek

1. Yes.

2. No. Fair use only applies to non commercial use only.

[Derek Thomas]

Originally Posted by writesuccess

I've filed many DMCA complaints over the years because I post articles on free article directories and when I find my article has been republished somewhere online and changed when it's been published, or doesn't have my name as the author or doesn't have my author's resource box attached, then I file a DMCA complaint to the hosting company if the web site owner doesn't remove my article when asked.

.........

In my experience, once I issue a DMCA complaint the matter is resolved, and the writing removed, in 24 to 48 hours.

But good luck with it all anyway.

Hey my friend, thank you for all the great information!

It's great to hear from someone who has been down the DMCA road before. I've always known pirating and digital theft to be a serious (and may I say despicable) issue for our community, this was just my first real experience with it.


Welcome to the Forum by the way...Look forward to hearing more from you.

All the best,
Derek

[Derek Thomas]

Originally Posted by Mac T Wheeler

I think the situation is a little more complicated, are forum posts actually subject to copyright in the same sense as other content?

.....

A bit of a grey area I am afraid.

My gut feeling is that there is not much you can do about it.

I've read several discussions about whether or not forum posts are the property of the actual poster or the forum itself, and while I'm not sure of the specifics, it is an interesting thought.

Either way, I also have the same copy on an actual sales page (domain I own). The only way I know it came from my WSO is there are slight differences between the two.

As far as there not being much I can do, I will file the complaint and we'll see what happens.

Regarding this whole issue, I have found this blog to be a valuable resource...

Plagiarism Today - Copyright, Content Theft and Plagiarism

Specifically this post

Derek

[Derek Thomas]

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

1. Yes.

2. No. Fair use only applies to non commercial use only.

Thanks

From the blog post I mentioned earlier, here was an interesting quote...

Most of the people why cry fair use are misreading the law. Fair use is a very narrow exemption under copyright law where an infringer is not liable for using someone else’s copyrighted work without permission.


Fair use may protect you in some cases but you have not note that fair use strongly favors uses that are transformative, meaning that the copy is a new work, one not designed to replace the original, and that the fact your use was or was not commercial does not factor in heavily.


Furthermore, fair use is an affirmative defense, meaning that you would have to prove that your use was fair after you have been sued. In short, fair use will not protect you from a lawsuit, just from having to pay damages after it is over.


Fair use is a vital part of copyright law. It is where free speech is balanced against the rights of the copyright holder However, using it means first understanding it.

Here is the link again... 3. Copyright Myths | PlagiarismToday

[richgrad]

if you could, I think it best to contact him directly... usually, in my experience, people who copy my content take them down when I request for them to do so.

[Derek Thomas]

Originally Posted by richgrad

if you could, I think it best to contact him directly... usually, in my experience, people who copy my content take them down when I request for them to do so.

Not that I disagree...

But why is that?

You would assume someone who would steal from you would not be so quick to return it when simply asked.

Derek

[precious007]

Ask them to remove the content, and only then you can take further charges.

Most often, there is nothing much you can do about it.

I've published thousands of articles online, and dozens have been copied without giving me credit, I don't have the time really to fill so many DCMA complaints.

Some of my landing pages have been 100% cloned and I all I did, was to ask the domain owner to take down his/her site.

Al.

[Derek Thomas]

Originally Posted by precious007

Ask them to remove the content

...

I don't have the time really to fill so many DCMA complaints.

Unfortunately, even that takes more time than I wish I had to spend, as I'm sure you'd agree.

All-in-all I expect things like this to happen, and ultimately on a far larger scale than I can maintain; however, I wanted to be clear on what legal grounds I had, if any, should I take the extra time to file a DMCA complaint.

Thanks for the advice,
Derek

[sbucciarel]

Your WSO, with your name included is not fair use. File a DMCA. Don't worry about that legal jargon. That applies only if you would be filing one fraudulently in order to get someone delisted or taken down.

[Derek Thomas]

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Your WSO, with your name included is not fair use. File a DMCA. Don't worry about that legal jargon. That applies only if you would be filing one fraudulently in order to get someone delisted or taken down.

Certainly got the proof to back this one up.

Thanks,
Derek

PS - Anyone and everyone should go purchase Flip Ace right now...it's KILLER

[x3xsolxdierx3x]

Originally Posted by derek.ifocus

I noticed earlier today that a kind fellow has blatantly ripped off my sales copy from a WSO I'm running here in the Forum, and is now selling something of his own via a Blogger blog. Poor deuche even forgot to replace my name with his in one place.

I cannot confirm what he has or has not done with the product itself, as it seems he may have merged a couple of things together (probably someone else's WSO), but the copy itself is 90% mine (including testimonials where he replaced his name with mine)

I reported the abuse of the blog and was led to file a DMCA complaint. On the DMCA site I read this...



My question...

(1) I understand anything you publish online (whether or not it is officially "registered" is copyrighted. Is this correct?

(2) Would the sales copy of my WSO thread somehow fall under the "fair use doctrine"? I doubt it seriously, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

Thanks everyone,
Derek

geeze....can't people just do the work themselves?

[Floyd Fisher]

Originally Posted by derek.ifocus

Thanks

From the blog post I mentioned earlier, here was an interesting quote...



Here is the link again... 3. Copyright Myths | PlagiarismToday

Here's a real cute story about fair use....courtesy of Disney characters.

YouTube - A Fair(y) Use Tale

[LB]

2. No. Fair use only applies to non commercial use only.

No, this is wrong, I see this posted here all the time.

Commercial use is just one of the things weighed into determining whether you may raise "fair use" as an affirmative defense.

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. § 106 and 17 U.S.C. § 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

From wiki (Fair use - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

The subfactor mentioned in the legislation above, "whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes," has recently been deemphasized in some Circuits "since many, if not most, secondary uses seek at least some measure of commercial gain from their use."[6] More important is whether the use fulfills any of the "preamble purposes" also mentioned in the legislation above, as these have been interpreted as paradigmatically "transformative." Although Judge Pierre Leval has distinguished the first factor as "the soul of fair use," it alone is not determinative. For example, not every educational usage is fair.[7]

If someone stole your website copy, I can't imagine any situation where that would qualify as fair use- unless perhaps they were creating an educational program about how to write copy and were analyzing sections of the copy or something.

That said, talking to a lawyer about this sort of thing is always the right thing to do. Only they can give definitive legal advice.

If someone stole my sales copy and was using it to sell their stuff, I would use the DMCA...that's what I would do personally if the infringement was blatant.

Again, any doubts- talk to a professional because no matter what we say, the buck stops with you.

[Floyd Fisher]

Originally Posted by LB

No, this is wrong, I see this posted here all the time.

Commercial use is just one of the things weighed into determining whether you may raise "fair use" as an affirmative defense.



From wiki (Fair use - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)



If someone stole your website copy, I can't imagine any situation where that would qualify as fair use- unless perhaps they were creating an educational program about how to write copy and were analyzing sections of the copy or something.

That said, talking to a lawyer about this sort of thing is always the right thing to do. Only they can give definitive legal advice.

If someone stole my sales copy and was using it to sell their stuff, I would use the DMCA...that's what I would do personally if the infringement was blatant.

Again, any doubts- talk to a professional because no matter what we say, the buck stops with you.

You know, this is funny.

I said fair use does not apply if you are using said stuff for commercial purposes, and you claim I'm wrong, then you proceed to quote stuff that shows I'm 100% right.

Do you realize what you just did?

[jennypitts]

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

Here's a real cute story about fair use....courtesy of Disney characters.

YouTube - A Fair(y) Use Tale

Floyd I could not help but lighten up the thread a bit by saying I loved your video. Or is it NOT yours? Did you copy it? Just kidding. BUT I did love it... Funny enough I was able to identify which movie each of those clips belongs to... Wow, I guess my girls got me seeing too many Disney movies...

I had to point out that I happen to believe that when it comes to publishing content online there is such a fine line. WHY? Because the internet is public and free to use. NOW, this is not to say that copyrighted material should not be protected, I am just saying that so many people will overlook what is stipulated by Copyright laws simply because it may be much harder to prosecute or even reinforce the law ONLINE. On the other hand, I also think if the infringement is a grave one (although steeling is steeling no matter the severity) one should contact a Copyright attorney.

[LB]

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

You know, this is funny.

I said fair use does not apply if you are using said stuff for commercial purposes, and you claim I'm wrong, then you proceed to quote stuff that shows I'm 100% right.

Do you realize what you just did?

Umm...no?

Commercial purpose is one the things considered if it actually goes to court and "fair use" is raised as an affirmative defense.

I encourage you to read that wiki article:

All the factors are considered and balanced in each case: a book reviewer who quotes a paragraph as an example of the author's style will probably fall under fair use even though he may sell his review commercially. But a non-profit educational website that reproduces whole articles from technical magazines will probably be found to infringe if the publisher can demonstrate that the website affects the market for the magazine, even though the website itself is non-commercial.

Look under "common misunderstandings":

Common misunderstandings: If you're selling for profit, it's not fair use. While commercial copying for profit work may make it harder to qualify as fair use, it does not make it impossible.

I'm sure kindsvater will pop in here and set the record straight...

[writesuccess]

Originally Posted by derek.ifocus

Hey my friend, thank you for all the great information!

It's great to hear from someone who has been down the DMCA road before. I've always known pirating and digital theft to be a serious (and may I say despicable) issue for our community, this was just my first real experience with it.


Welcome to the Forum by the way...Look forward to hearing more from you.

All the best,
Derek

Thank you for your kind words. I'm glad you're going ahead with the DMCA complaint. These online thieves really need to be stopped.

I am currently in a legal wrangle with a really weird web site owner. I filed a DMCA complaint a few weeks ago when I found that he'd published an article of mine and used some terrible article-spinning software on it. I asked him to take it down but he ignored me so I filed a DMCA with Hostgator (his hosting company). He did take the article down but he went crazy and put some weird comments on the page and attached my name and web site link to them to make it look as though I'd posted the comments.

He then also put up a web page about how much he hates me. You can see it here at msiba.org/strange-harassing-comments-by-ruth-barringham/. He rants and raves about how I'm not to be trusted and that no one should do business with me. And it's all because he looked up my WHOIS info and found it protected. It's ironic how angry he got because he hides is info too and has no contact details on his site whatsoever. I could only contact him through his comment box and he deleted both my comments (requests for him to take down the article).

So I have engaged an attorny in the US (I'm in Australia) who is currently dealing with the situation, including filing for a subpoena to get this guy's contact info. It's going to be a long and expensive road to go down but it will be worth it.

But the good thing about it is that someone who has a very popular web site and a huge subscriber list has recently paid me to write an article about what happened with Mr msiba.org. The article will be published online soon so hopefully this guy will get the kind of attention he doesn't want.

Also someone else recently emailed me with details of how to report his site to the right people and get it shut down. It's just a rip-off site that infringes the copyright of hundreds of writers (he's even stolen loads of web page content from amazon.com) and it's people like him that we don't need.

I just couldn't believe what he was trying to do to me just because I wanted him to remove my article. When I spoke to my attorney on the telephone he couldn't believe it either. He said "Is that all you did, you asked him to take down an illegally published article? Is there some sort of angry email or something that you sent him as well that you're not telling me about?" But how can I email someone if I don't know who they are? But I will know soon.

I hope you have a better experience with your DMCA complaint than I am currently having. No one has ever been so nasty about it before.