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Username and Passwords - an intellectual property violation?

by pozzy
17 replies
I received an email from a company asking me to take files down from my site that contain logins (usernames and passwords) to the members area of their website.

They claim this is an intellectual property right that is protected by the DMCA. I'm not hosting any of their content or anything like that, do they actually have any legal backing in the case?
#intellectual #passwords #property #username #violation
  • Profile picture of the author Greg Jacobs
    Why wouldn't you comply?
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  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    If you are posting secret names and passwords that get people into their sites then hell yes they are within their rights to ask you to take them down, they would also be justified to sue if they so wished since you are bypassing their way of making money and likely making it yourself though a lawyer could probably advise better on that.
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  • Profile picture of the author webcreationuk
    I somehow agree with them, I mean, why would you make public usernames and passwords?
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    • Profile picture of the author pozzy
      To make it clear, I am not posting anything. I own a file hosting website, one of my users is doing this. I'm not asking for a moral standpoint whether this is right or wrong, I'm asking whether this violates the DMCA?
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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        Originally Posted by pozzy View Post

        To make it clear, I am not posting anything. I own a file hosting website, one of my users is doing this. I'm not asking for a moral standpoint whether this is right or wrong, I'm asking whether this violates the DMCA?
        So ... this file hosting website ... could it be that you host anything that your users upload, including other people's intellectual property? You know, a pirated files hosting site?

        Yes, the usernames and passwords are the other site's property and then can issue a DMCA to your host.

        Originally Posted by pozzy View Post

        To make it clear, I am not posting anything. I own a file hosting website, one of my users is doing this. I'm not asking for a moral standpoint whether this is right or wrong, I'm asking whether this violates the DMCA?
        To make it clear ... if we want to respond with a moral standpoint when you post a thread, we will.
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  • Profile picture of the author michaelbnielsen
    We are back to the good old discussion as to who are responsible for content of a website / social media website, etc.

    They do have a case and that case could in the end be expensive for you. If they haul you of to court and you need to pay big money to defend yourself, would that be better than to comply with their request.

    You know that the data is there and that it "properly" have not been obtained legally. They have informed you that the data is there, just in case you did not know.

    And not least, what cost will a case like this have for your business and reputation?

    Just my 5 cents of advice.

    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author pozzy
      Originally Posted by michaelbnielsen View Post

      We are back to the good old discussion as to who are responsible for content of a website / social media website, etc.

      They do have a case and that case could in the end be expensive for you. If they haul you of to court and you need to pay big money to defend yourself, would that be better than to comply with their request.

      You know that the data is there and that it "properly" have not been obtained legally. They have informed you that the data is there, just in case you did not know.

      And not least, what cost will a case like this have for your business and reputation?

      Just my 5 cents of advice.

      Michael
      My question is not about how the data was obtained or who's responsible for it. The question is whether actually having this data AT ALL is an infringement? Are user logins an actual intellectual property or not?

      Yes, I obviously would not want to go to court, but if they have no legal backing for such a case they probably would not take me to court.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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    Why would you have the logins of someone else's site on your site? Of course, take them down. Shouldn't have been up in the first place.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    Yes Pozzy, having stuff that should not be on your site at all is YOUR responsibility, they have requested that you remove it so I suggest you comply and send them an email apology (if nothing else it will create goodwill and maybe open the door to a link exchange) explaining how it came to be there.

    It matters not how the information got there, all that matters is it is there.

    I could mention a story about some very illegal stuff found on an innocent mans computer that got put there by a zombie...needless to say he was hauled off to court. But I won't because I don't want to get into the morality of sharing files or worse that you shouldn't be sharing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
    To the OP: STOP! Stop debating and discussing this on a public forum, especially one where most of us are not attorneys.

    Don Schenk is right: talk to a lawyer. Find one right now. If you need help, contact kindsvater on here.

    I am not a lawyer, but I am going to explain things as I understand them. As I am not an attorney, do not rely on my info as legal advice. Talk to an attorney.

    If you are a host, I believe that you are covered by safe harbor provisions, so long as you abide by requests. The company can file a DMCA request with you to remove the content. Then, you remove it. If the user believes he has a right to post that content, he can file a counter-claim to get you to put it back up. After that, it's between the company and the user to sort things out, probably through a lawsuit.

    Basically, the company is telling you, this is ours, take it down. Then, as long as they provide the proper documentation, you remove the content.

    The user can then turn around and say, oh no, that's mine, put it back up. Then, so long as they provide the proper documentation, you put the content back up.

    After that, it becomes an issue between the company and the user, as you have followed each request.

    Of course, where you need the lawyer is in determining the proper procedures and documentation to make sure you are covered. You only have a short window to comply with a DMCA request, so speak to an attorney ASAP!

    As for whether usernames and passwords are considered intellectual property and are covered by the DMCA, I don't know. I would think it would likely be a violation of something though, which furthers the need for you to talk to an attorney.

    Additionally, you should have your own user agreement which dictates what type of content users can post through your service and your policies and procedures regarding removal of content that is in violation, not necessarily of the law but of your own user agreement. That way, you may have more leeway in removing content that is questionable.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      IANAL - but there's a reason a webhost will take down your site if you are violating the rights of another site....and that may be because the host could be seen as sharing the liability.

      In this case, simple logic tells me that if you have been notified (as the host) that a site you are hosting is violating the terms or posting private information of the complaining site - you might want to take it seriously.

      If you don't know whether to take it seriously - get a lawyer.
      If you want to dispute it - get a lawyer.
      If you choose to ignore it - get a lawyer.

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground SEO
    I would just take it down to avoid all the hassle, no point in spending hundreds on a lawyer when you could just take it down and be done with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nigels
      I am not a lawyer either etc, but another part of the DCMA they may also have in mind is the bit dealing with anti circumvention measures. As well as the well known copyright measures, the DCMA "criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or services intended to circumvent measures [...] that control access to copyrighted works."

      Perhaps pertinent from your perspective:

      "It also criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, whether or not there is actual infringement of copyright itself."

      Source Wikipedia

      The passwords provide digital security to whatever services or data the complaining site offers. By providing users with the ability to post these passwords and doing nothing about it when notified, the company may contend that you are allowing the circumvention of their site's access controls.
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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    Let me take a whack at this from a different direction...

    The data may or may not a DMCA violation... but that doesn't really matter because you have even bigger problems.

    How so?

    Those credentials are the "keys" to someone's private property. You are distributing those keys, and ultimately facilitating the commission of federal felonies (ie electronic breaking and entering).

    Yes, you are aiding and abetting in those felonies.

    If you as reasonable person knew or should have known that the files were on your system, then you are liable not only for the civil consequences, but for federal criminal prosecution as well.

    This material has been brought to your attention.

    Do you want that kind of liability?
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  • Profile picture of the author l3vi501
    Hmm interesting.. According to Wikipedia it would be:

    "It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or services intended to circumvent measures (commonly known as digital rights management or DRM) that control access to copyrighted works. It also criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, whether or not there is actual infringement of copyright itself."

    Beyond that you are liable to your user actions, that is why you should be carrying error and omission insurance. They could file one with your hosting company and they can take down the page, file, or entire site if they can not sort out how to remove the file.

    It is much better to take down now worry about later. Laws suits are never cheap! ;p
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