Question For The Pros: Do You Think There's Actually THAT MUCH Demand For Copywriting Ebooks?

20 replies
I'm working on an outline for a new copywriting ebook. This would be my first about copywriting.

No doubt Carlton, Fortin, and other top copywriters absolutely KILL IT with their products and courses.

However, whenever I run a survey and whenever I skim this forum, it seems that copywriting is almost never the topic of discussion. There are only a few Warriors in the copywriting section.

My point is... it just doesn't seem to be a "hot button subject" like affiliate marketing, blogging, traffic generation, and other things.

Gravity in CB is really low for the top copywriting products.

If I didn't love the subject so much there's no way I would even consider writing an ebook on it. Because there's just so many more topics with more interest.

What do you think? Yay or nay?
#copywriting #demand #ebooks #pros #question
  • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
    I think a lot of it has to do with the way you pitch it...

    When you say to me:

    Copywriting - I think of hours, days and weeks of sitting in front of a computer typing, testing, tweaking etc. (lots and lots of work)

    When you say to me:

    10 quick, easy and simple ways to turn your website in the the ultimate sales machine - now you've got my attention.

    The word copywriting just isn't glamorous enough and doesn't give me the "end result" that I seek.

    I bet a lot of people think like this...

    Kindest regards,
    Karl.
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    eCoverNinja - Sales Page Graphics & Layout Specialist
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by KarlWarren View Post

      I think a lot of it has to do with the way you pitch it...

      When you say to me:

      Copywriting - I think of hours, days and weeks of sitting in front of a computer typing, testing, tweaking etc. (lots and lots of work)

      When you say to me:

      10 quick, easy and simple ways to turn your website in the the ultimate sales machine - now you've got my attention.

      The word copywriting just isn't glamorous enough and doesn't give me the "end result" that I seek.

      I bet a lot of people think like this...

      Kindest regards,
      Karl.
      Thanks for the reply Karl.

      While there aren't as many people looking for high conversion rates over traffic generation, affiliate marketing techniques, and the like... I think there's definitely a lot of truth in what you're saying.
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      • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
        Jason,

        I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people just don't know WHAT will make them more money. You can throw all the untargeted traffic in the world at a dire sales page and you're always going to be wasting a lot of it.

        Yet, people are scared of "copy" - they think it's that last piece of the puzzle that's going to elude them because they:

        a) don't have the time
        b) don't have the skill
        c) don't have the inclination

        If you can wrap up a solid copywriting guide in a nice shiny "system to make more money" then you've got a winner. Not only that, but you can use the same techniques, repackaged again and again to create more "systems."
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        eCoverNinja - Sales Page Graphics & Layout Specialist
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  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    I think often you are buying a specific plan for making money, so it is more than just an ebook.
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    It is okay to contact me! I have been developing software since 1999, creating many popular products like phpLD.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gordon Lee
    Yay for me!

    The challenge is to make a copywriting product interesting and different from what is already out there.

    That is why I loved the recent 2 copywriting WSOs:

    a) Halbert Swipe Files by Jason Fladien
    b) Paul Hancox's Watch Me Write My 3 Sales Letters

    Both took a different approach to teaching copywriting and it certainly got my vote and cash.

    Now these 2 are no Carlton or Fortin but I would say, have delivered great value.

    What is it in your copywriting product that will make me say... "Yes! I have got to have it?"
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    Need A Kickstart In Your Efforts to Sell Facebook and Mobile Marketing Services to Restaurants?
    Check it out here: Hungry Crowd Lead Gen Content Kit

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  • Profile picture of the author admin
    Administrator
    You got one huge problem my friend...

    It's the difference between what people "need" and what they actually "want"...

    And nothing will change that.

    That's not to say you can't make money selling copywriting material, obviously people have, but there are much easier roads to follow.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by admin View Post

      You got one huge problem my friend...

      It's the difference between what people "need" and what they actually "want"...

      And nothing will change that.

      That's not to say you can't make money selling copywriting material, obviously people have, but there are much easier roads to follow.
      Thanks Allen, for knocking some sense into me.

      I know there are easier roads. I just live and die by my copywriting skills.

      While I'd like to teach others this awesome skill... I think I'd rather drive a Farari.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by admin View Post

      You got one huge problem my friend...

      It's the difference between what people "need" and what they actually "want"...

      And nothing will change that.

      That's not to say you can't make money selling copywriting material, obviously people have, but there are much easier roads to follow.
      Following what Allen said...

      So... the challenge is to prove your copywriting chops by writing
      a sales letter for the product that 'makes' people want it rather
      than need it...

      If your copy can't sell your product how good is your product?

      Tsnyder
      Signature
      If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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      • Profile picture of the author J. Barry Mandel
        1) It's not a matter of just selling the product. It's a matter of HOW MANY.

        2) And you could have a geat product with terrible copy or terrible copy with a great product. One can have little to do with each other if you are not a copywriter.


        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post


        If your copy can't sell your product how good is your product?

        Tsnyder
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Jason, I've been down this road with my own book which I think is one of
          the best books out there on the subject. I have had some success with it,
          but not a ton, and that's with all my promotion.

          My other products outsell it by ratios of 5:1 all the way to 100:1.

          Don't waste your time. You'll be beating your head against a stone wall.

          People don't want to learn how to write copy.

          They want to push a button and have $100 bills fall from the sky.
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          • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Jason, I've been down this road with my own book which I think is one of
            the best books out there on the subject. I have had some success with it,
            but not a ton, and that's with all my promotion.

            My other products outsell it by ratios of 5:1 all the way to 100:1.

            Don't waste your time. You'll be beating your head against a stone wall.

            People don't want to learn how to write copy.

            They want to push a button and have $100 bills fall from the sky.
            Thanks for the personal insights, palamino!
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        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
          Justin...

          My point is if you're a good copywriter you should be able to craft
          a sales letter that will spark interest in the subject. If you can't do
          that I think the content of your course is suspect.

          How can you teach what you don't seem to know?

          Tsnyder

          Originally Posted by Justin Mandel View Post

          1) It's not a matter of just selling the product. It's a matter of HOW MANY.

          2) And you could have a geat product with terrible copy or terrible copy with a great product. One can have little to do with each other if you are not a copywriter.
          Signature
          If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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          • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
            Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

            Justin...

            My point is if you're a good copywriter you should be able to craft
            a sales letter that will spark interest in the subject. If you can't do
            that I think the content of your course is suspect.

            How can you teach what you don't seem to know?
            A "good copywriter" doesn't try to sell a product when there isn't a demand. This goes all the way back to Halbert's hamburger stand and a starving crowd.

            Too many marketers see copywriting as the marketing panacea. I don't know where you ever got the notion, but it is merely one of 4 legs on the barstool. Without all of the legs solidly on the ground, the stool will tip over.

            What are the 4 legs of the barstool?

            1. A great product that solves a problem
            2. A great offer
            3. Great copy promising to cure the problem
            4. A starving crowd with the problem (and cash)

            If any of those elements are missing or out of balance, the stool tips over and you don't make sales. The sooner you guys learn this, the sooner you will make more sales.

            Allow me to share a real world example of a guy that never learned this lesson.

            I was asked to write a letter for a product by an IM guy. When I asked about his offer he told me the price and I nearly choked. It was $297, which was about $250 higher than I thought it should be.

            I immediately expressed concern, but he wouldn't listen. I warned him that I'd do my best but I thought it was way too high. I privately asked a few highly respected copywriters about the offer and both of them shared my opinion. Unfortunately, this guy wasn't listening to the marketing experts, instead listening to his friends that told him, "Oh, it's worth $497."

            They were simply telling him what he wanted to hear.

            Next, I asked about his market. He told me he had some of the biggest names in IM promoting it. And he wasn't kidding. I could name 10 guys that you've all heard of including several multi millionaires with 6 figure lists. I told him, well that's great but your product isn't targeting the TYPE of people they have on their lists.

            He was teaching newbie stuff like how to ftp, buy a domain name, add a paypal button, etc. People on Mike Filsaime's list already know how to do that. They don't have a problem.

            He insisted that I not worry about it and so I figured I've done my part and gave him my opinion.

            So I opened a vein and poured my heart and soul into that letter. It is one of the finest letters I've ever written. I had 3 copywriters review the letter, all of them guys you've heard and the cheapest one charges $5,000 a letter. The most expensive one is at $15,000.

            They gave me some feedback and all thought the letter kicked ass. And the guy I delivered it to loved it. He said, "You hit it out of the park".

            Fast forward to launch day.

            He sold jack squat. It converted at around 0.2%. And guess whose fault it was?

            You got it. All the warnings I gave him about his offer... about his market... all that was forgotten and it was all the copy's fault. I had to fix the copy. After a few tweaks with no success (which made perfect sense to me), he fired me and hired someone else.

            The sad part is, the new launch won't go any better than mine because he can't see the real problem. It's NOT the letter. My letters routinely convert at 3-7% when put in front of the right crowd.

            Ok, enough ranting. I hope somebody learned something here.

            PS: I am still owed money on the project. Another guy teaching people how to make money that can't pay his own bills.
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          • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
            Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

            Justin...

            My point is if you're a good copywriter you should be able to craft
            a sales letter that will spark interest in the subject. If you can't do
            that I think the content of your course is suspect.

            How can you teach what you don't seem to know?

            Tsnyder
            Some of the old school mail order masters would say don't try to sell anything if you have to explain why they need it. You only want to sell what they're already looking for.

            ...In a more extreme case, you don't want to invent anything new either. The inventor of the Air Conditioner went broke because he had to explain why others needed it.
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  • Profile picture of the author J. Barry Mandel
    Hey Jason,

    Long time no contact!

    IMHO by and large I think it's a dud.

    There was one copywriting book that came out which was called 10%? I forgot who wrote it.

    That copywriting eBook was the best attempt tht I've seen to give it mass appeal.

    If you can outright give people the reasons on their level to pick it up (as you know) you have that much of a chance and you'll sell some copies.

    But, people just DON'T want to put the time into it.

    After all, how many newbies actually even "get" that it's the copy that sells the product?
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by Justin Mandel View Post

      Hey Jason,

      Long time no contact!

      IMHO by and large I think it's a dud.

      There was one copywriting book that came out which was called 10%? I forgot who wrote it.

      That copywriting eBook was the best attempt tht I've seen to give it mass appeal.

      If you can outright give people the reasons on their level to pick it up (as you know) you have that much of a chance and you'll sell some copies.

      But, people just DON'T want to put the time into it.

      After all, how many newbies actually even "get" that it's the copy that sells the product?
      Hey man!

      Yeah, Secrets of a 10% Conversion Rate or something like that. It was promoted by Fortin.

      ...I think I'll just abandon my copywriting project and keep the secrets to myself.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Ritz
        At a minimum, you're better off referring to it as "conversion" rather than "copywriting". But even that will only get you so far.

        People want a magic button they can press to instantly get more sales and more $$ in their pocket. Even though that angle has been played seven ways since Sunday, you're still better off for the general IM niche using some variant on the magic button approach.

        Copywriting by itself is just not as "sexy" for the general IM crowd. Now if you have a list of a bunch of copywriters or more experienced IMers, it can work. Just look at my Copywriter's Toolkit. That's a 6-figure product right there.

        But again, message to market match.

        Cheers,

        John
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenneth L
    Hi,

    As a copywriter I have also had thoughts of doing something similar but I think it's a tough sell even if it is the most important skill anyone wanting to succeed in Internet Marketing could learn.

    There's also so much good information for free available like Gary Halbert's Letters which I think make it even harder.
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewStark
    Why not approach it from a different angle?

    Teach people how to write great ppc adverts, create a set of "killer squeeze pages", or write a series of follow-up adverts for top selling clickbank products.

    This will appeal much more to the mass market, and it's something that I would promote to my list. Even a simple swipe file of proven IM headlines could be a winner.
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