Why I Don't Recommend IM To Friends

14 years ago

Not everyone has the same interest in it as we do. I mean, a lot of my friends have the $ signs in their eyes when I talk about what I do, but when they start to digg a bit and see what it actually takes to make it, they won't go any further. That's also why, like you, I don't spend the time teaching someone who doesn't know what they get into. One exception, my husband, I'm teaching him to set up a blog for an online game he plays. If he gets some money out of it, he'll be happy I'm sure

Leslie

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juansaldivar

14 years ago

Great post, well most people want to know how to make more money, now that is one thing and it's a different thing they are willing to work at it to make it work. Because alot of people don't believe you can make money online, they see you doing it and it's like voodoo or something. To be fair if you are making money online most people would ask you to tell them the "secret" key to unlimited wealth. And to be fair to us that would be unfair to just tell them everything if we read like 1000 ebooks and try and tweak to get to the formula. So if you like to teach tell your friends about it and you won't have time because they would be begging you to tell them the secret and if you don't want any issues with them tell them you are a software developer or something more credible and they would stop bugging you and you have more time to make money.

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theemperor 14 years ago

Originally Posted by juansaldivar

And to be fair to us that would be unfair to just tell them everything if we read like 1000 ebooks and try and tweak to get to the formula.

I have this theory that "the formula" is different for each and every person, and it depends on your unique skills and interests. If you can write 100 articles in a day no problem and love every minute of it, then your formula would be different to someone who loves making videos, or someone who needs personal interaction more than computer interaction etc.
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Ryan D

Banned 14 years ago

That's true. I never pushed people into it, but I think I was naive to think that people would have a greater success rate if they had someone they could personally ask questions of.

I remember Andy Jenkins saying this a long time ago. It was an interview with Ken McCarthy and he was asking him about what was different in the early 2000's when he started vs. now. Andy said all the standard stuff was way harder....shopping carts, autoresponders, SEO, PPC, etc.

But then he said, even with all that info available now, success rates are pretty much the same. The people that are determined to succeed, will succeed with or without the information handed to them.

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Epicurus

14 years ago

Excellent post Ryan

I actually work as a freelance VA handling several different support desks and am constantly amazed by the sheer naivety and unrealistic expectations of some customers.

Had one the other day saying "Do you really expect me to read this massive 45 page ebook to get started?"

I mean.....the mind boggles really.

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Damien Roche

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Epicurus

Excellent post Ryan

I actually work as a freelance VA handling several different support desks and am constantly amazed by the sheer naivety and unrealistic expectations of some customers.

Had one the other day saying "Do you really expect me to read this massive 45 page ebook to get started?"

I mean.....the mind boggles really.

That's unreal, but sadly the attitude the majority share.

With me, I just expected more and expected it to be easier - but I never for one second underestimated the workload. It's likely because of the unrealistic guides *the majority* of IM'ers feed to newbies.

I'm still here 3 years on, and though I took a different path (web development), I still very much have my eye on the ball and KNOW my future is online business. I'll die growing my empire.

..and that's exactly what a lot of people lack. They're lazy: 45 page ebook? try countless 30-300 pg ebooks and 2 years of constant study without earning a dime. That's determination. That's what you need to make it.

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jan roos

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Damien Roche

That's unreal, but sadly the attitude the majority share.

With me, I just expected more and expected it to be easier - but I never for one second underestimated the workload. It's likely because of the unrealistic guides *the majority* of IM'ers feed to newbies.

I'm still here 3 years on, and though I took a different path (web development), I still very much have my eye on the ball and KNOW my future is online business. I'll die growing my empire.

..and that's exactly what a lot of people lack. They're lazy: 45 page ebook? try countless 30-300 pg ebooks and 2 years of constant study without earning a dime. That's determination. That's what you need to make it.

Sounds exactly like me. Finally started making decent money each day and you won't believe how good it feels.

Keep on rockin bro!

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Mohammad Afaq

14 years ago

I should mention also, this is the 80/20 for me. If someone comes back and says "Hey, i was checking out the warrior forum and it sounds like creating a content site with wordpress and monetizing with affiliate programs is the way to go. How do I install wordpress?" ......then now we're talking! But I don't spend too much time on the front-end unless they show some drive!

And that's exactly how it should be.

I would love to help a newbie who is determined to do something but I
wouldn't waste my time with people who are "making their decision"

It's upto the person to make the decision and it's not my
job to help them make their decision because I'm not
getting a commission if they start with IM

if they start IM.

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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

I dare to say a large majority of people currently trying to make money online are only chasing money, and don't enjoy marketing or running their own business...

...and of those people, a large percentage don't really have a business in the first place.

These are the people who start out asking the question they asked you, which was:

"You can make money online for real? Wow, I gotta learn how to do that..."

After 3 years, they haven't made their hosting fees back, let alone a profitable business. Yet, another guy comes along and after 3 weeks has created several hundred dollars in early sales.

What's the difference?

The first guy asked:

"How can I make money online..."

The second guys asked:

"How can I start a profitable business..."

The difference is wider than the gap between Earth and Pluto.

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Underground SEO

14 years ago

exactly the same thing happened for me! I told my friends about how to get started etc, about 4 or 5 of them in total and then when it came to actualy continuing their IM work regularly that was the end of that!

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Ryan D

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Beth Freeman

I remember somebody, maybe Eben Pagan, saying that there are those who like to *do* business, and those who like to *play at doing* business. Kinda sums it up for me.

Ha. Yes I remember that too. I think that is a different breed though. Those are people that tell everyone they are starting a business, get a corporate logo designed, get business cards designed, and then open up a PO box.

After that, they're clueless.

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Nightengale 14 years ago

I've never felt that IM was hard per se, but there IS an incredibly steep learning curve. And a lot of people aren't willing to work at that learning curve and keep testing until they find what DOES work -- especially if they're not making any money in the meantime.

Plus, there's the part where you have to decide what exactly it is that you want to do. That's harder than it seems because there are lots of ways to make money online, not just one. You have to choose between products, services or a combination thereof. You have to choose a business model, etc. So you have to know what you want and FOCUS. Sometimes, you can't really know what you want to do until you've dabbled in it a little bit.

So it's not a straight line to success. It's very organic and convoluted at times.

I've been studying IM for several years, made a little money (not much) but have never really gone out there in a big way. Mostly, I've been studying IM and I've spent several thousand dollars learning IM over the years. No, it hasn't been all at once, but I've bought lots of little e-books and physical courses, plus some much more expensive IM courses.

I paid $1500 for one of my favorites and it was worth every penny.

But I totally get what you're saying. I don't talk about it too much to anybody either with the exception of my sister and fiance. My sister and I talk about it all the time because she's doing it too and she "gets it" and is really doing the work.

I talk to my fiance too. He DOESN'T get it, but we're getting married and he needs to know what I'm doing and the money I'm spending to set up my business now.

I just spent a couple of hours yesterday at Panera Bread with a woman I met at church discussing IM. She's trying to get into affiliate marketing and knows almost nothing. I kept my mouth shut and let her talk. She's just beginning and there's so much she doesn't know and doesn't realize what she doesn't know. She's still in the stage of trying things out to figure out what she actually wants to do.

I could tell her all kinds of stuff, but until she's ready to receive it, I'm wasting my breath. I ended up wishing I'd stayed home.

Michelle
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- Ryan D Banned 14 years ago
  
  I agree Michelle. It's not that hard and anyone CAN do it. Just like anyone can lose weight. Losing weight isn't hard, but it takes discipline and a commitment multiple times a day when you're about to make decisions regarding food/exercise.
  
  It reminds me of a conversation I had with my brother-in-law. Instead of researching investment options, he ended up using some horrible financial advisor who was basically selling him high commission life-insurance products. He said that he's a financial idiot and didn't know what was what. I told him that he knows everything imaginable about the Chicago Cubs and Bears, there's no way that he can't understand a few basic concepts related to personal finance.
  
  He just doesn't want to...whether he realizes it or not.
  
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Lloyd Buchinski 14 years ago

In my experience (unique?) it is a lot easier to make money off line than it is online. My $ per hour for my time put in doesn't come close to job and business.

Of course one of the little delusional things is the dream 'make money while you sleep.' That dream is encouraged by a lot of online businesses. You get paid for the work you put in, and that's about it.

Originally Posted by cosmokid

one guy

That was one of the most memorable threads ever in this forum. Even though I don't know you at all, it's really nice to see you back. Hope that is all in the past and only getting farther away.
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MaryT

14 years ago

not eveybody is made for business, we are tempted to assume that an internet business is the solution for everybody who need money.
that's just not true, in fact some people need to have a boss, and are just enable to take direction by themselves, they come to IM or internet business opportunities, thinking that it will be a piece of cake

i was telling to a friend how i made my first big payday, after 20 mnutes i realized that he just understand nothing of what i have done to achieve the results. he was just not a good profile to become a businessperson, he was more looking for a quick fix

this apply as much to offline businesses than online, a lot of people fail at offline businesses because they are just not made to be entrepreneur.

and if it seem easy for you, it is really hard for others people that are used to have a boss, and always try to chose the least effort path

my 2 cents
Mary T

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N4PGW 14 years ago

I tried encouraging my friends and family members into it. I offered to provide everything they needed including the hosting and domain names, but all I ever got was a bunch of domain names that are now expiring.

I hoped to generate enough interest to have someone to converse with, but that just isn't working.

I think I'll take your advise. I may place a download on my site that I refer them to and let them download it. I suspect that most will not even do that.

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Mohit Anand 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MaryT

this apply as much to offline businesses than online, a lot of people fail at offline businesses because they are just not made to be entrepreneur.

I was going to say something along the same lines.

Internet Marketing is like a gold-mine. However, there are few in this world who can actually manage their available resources and courage to dig deep.
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E. Brian Rose

14 years ago

Just recently, I tried to make a case study out of a friend. The idea was to document him from zero to hero in just a few months. I laid out a 20 step plan and assured him that I would help him after the first three steps. For those of you that read my products, you know that my steps are incredibly detailed, so there are no excuses not to follow them.

He came back to me a week later and said that he was finished. When I checked, he had done half of step three and flat out skipped steps one and two.

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jzmoore

14 years ago

To be successful with IM you MUST be Self Driven. Nothing is handed to you, and because of many Hype Claims, people think you buy a product and success just follows.

It can follow, but that leave out the details (working your a$$ off). I have worked harder with my IM business than anything else. But, I find the more I do, the more new ideas I come up with.

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MaryT

14 years ago

here is some info regarding the entrepreneur criteria

in offline world, 95% of the businesses that fail, fail due to family or friends issue. and this stats apply almost anywhere in the planet

basically what happen, an entrepreneur build a succesful business, then realize some relatives or friends need a job, so he decide to give them a good position in his company. and that's where he just killed his business in most of the cases

everybody had heard about crazy stories about business that need to stop, even they have a very profitbale business model.

there are several reasons for that, i won't go all long to the details. but it's more of the different mindset when it come to work and ethic

the first reason being the lack of financing management, some people start a business and make 10K sales, and they run to buy a sport car.
they don't realize the difference of making a sale of 10K , and having generated 2K profits from this sale, so they start to spend more than their profits and now they are just spending money they don't have

the same reason why some superstar of sports finish their life broke whatever fortune they earned, they always manage to spend more than they can afford

and all this apply to internet business, if you generated 1,500$ profits in your business don't start to buy infoproducts for 2k. just buy what you can afford, make saving and reinvest a little part in your business

my 2 cents
Mary T

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Joe Benjamin

14 years ago

I've been through the same thing Ryan, and I've learned
to let go of my feelings to help people do what I do and
just let them be until they prove to ME that their worthy
of my time by making a STRONG effort to get the ball
rolling THEMSELVES!!!

Fact is, people JUMP at hearing how successful someone
is and having the connection to that successful person.

Be it getting more dates. More money. More spiritual.
Whatever they want MORE of they feel they don't yet
have for themselves.

However, what they are REALLY saying to you when they
say, "show me how to make money", it's really.."make
money for ME by holding my hand and telling me every-
thing I need to do with no effort or persistence of my own".

In other words...

Show ME how you can make ME successful.

Sounds harsh...but I'm not speaking out of my butt.

Are they motivated to make money? Yes.

Are they committed? Majority of them are not.

The ones who ARE committed, are the ones who take
things into their OWN hands BEFORE or AFTER having
received the inspiration or ideas to make something
happen for themselves.

No one MADE me go out and work for free on restoring
a rental property. I WANTED to learn real estate in and
out regardless if I was paid to do it or not. This was
unheard of, and my mentor wanted to help me succeed
in the business after learning that I wasn't B'Sing.

It's almost impossible to find that drive in anyone. Not
to tote my own horn, but I WISH I found people who
asked for my help who volunteered to do ANYTHING for
free to learn how to do business, not just make money.

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Mukul Verma

14 years ago

Great story Ryan, I can personally relate to alot of it.

First question I ask is are you willing to work for less then minimum wage in the start?

The answer to that is powerful, most people dont get past the time for money reality.

Cheers,
Mukul

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Buzzin

14 years ago

Most people just starting out think it's a quick fix to some money troubles their having, but they soon realise that it takes graft to succeed at this game now.

People have become smarter, and marketers have to as well.

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colinceres

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Buzzin

Most people just starting out think it's a quick fix to some money troubles their having, but they soon realise that it takes graft to succeed at this game now.

People have become smarter, and marketers have to as well.

Hey Buzzin, I know where you're coming from. I'm what's known as a long-term newbie. I've been trying to make a buck online for about 5 years. Things changed a few weeks ago when I took the plunge and got myself a mentor. These guru guys charge thousands of dollars to tell you their (secrets to online success). My mentor charged me a BUCK for 10 days quality content and now I've signed up with him on a monthly basis and it hasn't cost me an arm and a leg. If you want me to hook you up with him give me a shout. He's not a guru but he knows how to teach and I've made my real first buck online.

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Buzzin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by colinceres

Hey Buzzin, I know where you're coming from. I'm what's known as a long-term newbie. I've been trying to make a buck online for about 5 years. Things changed a few weeks ago when I took the plunge and got myself a mentor. These guru guys charge thousands of dollars to tell you their (secrets to online success). My mentor charged me a BUCK for 10 days quality content and now I've signed up with him on a monthly basis and it hasn't cost me an arm and a leg. If you want me to hook you up with him give me a shout. He's not a guru but he knows how to teach and I've made my real first buck online.

Well done for taking action, because most people don't, so you're well ahead of a lot of newcomers.

$1 for 10 days? Wow that sounds like a great deal.

I have personally made money online already, after just reading and watching, rather than actually doing.

I have some friends who are wanting to make money online, so that guy's website will come in handy for them.

Thanks a lot for that!

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MisterWolf

14 years ago

Yes, that hand holding phase can be frustrating and the 'easy' aspect is what seems to draw a lot of people I have known towards 'making money online'. They don't realize it takes a while to get things off the ground, test them out and learn how things work. Article writing has the same sort of learning curve. People who can write like blazes end up frustrated and wanting to stab me after I let them try a couple 300 word articles on easy topics.

For whatever reason (and I am just as guilty of this as anyone else) it is difficult to self-discipline on very simple things that we would not think twice about keeping up with in order to look good to an employer. So weird!

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Crew Chief 14 years ago

Ryan, it's funny that you started this thread. I say that because my IM Team and I have this discussion constantly. When people find out what we do and get all excited about joining our team TO MAKE MONEY, I inform the steps they'll need to take to join our team.

It's simple steps, but only a small percentage of people actually complete them.

Step #1 - Complete the 30 Day Challenge
Step #2 - Read Google's Guide to SEO
Step #3 - Take our Keyword Research Course
Step #4 - Complete our IM Skills and Knowledge Test
Step #5 - Pass our IM Team Evaluation

If they don't complete all of those steps, all they'll get from me concerning Internet Marketing is... and... and... and finally...:confused:
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JayPeete

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ryan D

If someone comes back and says "Hey, i was checking out the warrior forum and it sounds like creating a content site with wordpress and monetizing with affiliate programs is the way to go. How do I install wordpress?" ......then now we're talking! But I don't spend too much time on the front-end unless they show some drive!

My sentiments exactly, I usually tell them to then go to YouTube and search for videos on the topic that they are asking me about. This will make them even more self-sufficient. Then if they do it I know that I have a serious person and will begin helping them.

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brieat

14 years ago

Exactly, never try to convert anyone into IM because it simply doesn't work. When someone ask me "So what you do for a living" I say I sell stuff on the Internet. They "Uh, Ebay?" and I say, "Yeah". And that's the end of the discussion.

I'm all for helping friends but I never try to "make" them do IM.

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Jacqueline Smith

14 years ago

If it was so easy....everyone would be doing it!!!!!

I'm fairly new to IM but not to running a business. If I hear one more time......"you are sooooo lucky to have your own business"......I'm going to scream. Then the kicker is......"must be nice to not have to work 9-5 anymore"......my response...."you're right, 9-5 is a real challenge compared to 18 hour days"!!!!

Bottom line...unless you actually do it you have no idea what's actually involved.

However, for those of us that love it......it's all worth it.

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xatsmann

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jaqs

If it was so easy....everyone would be doing it!!!!!

I'm fairly new to IM but not to running a business. If I hear one more time......"you are sooooo lucky to have your own business"......I'm going to scream. Then the kicker is......"must be nice to not have to work 9-5 anymore"......my response...."you're right, 9-5 is a real challenge compared to 18 hour days"!!!!

Bottom line...unless you actually do it you have no idea what's actually involved.

However, for those of us that love it......it's all worth it.

I agree completely Jaqs--its not just an IM thing, its a a business thing.

I offered (on my local craigslist) to put up a site for anyone for FREE--I got ONE response and that person couldn't even find the time to work with me.

If I do make a similar offer again I think it will be for someone to simply send me a information product to sell and simply offer to split the profits. I think it is a waste of time to try and work with someone who isn't committed to making IM work.

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birdfood

14 years ago

Success in IM and so many other fields is 80% psychological and 20% system/technical. If a friend does not have the right mindset or not prepared to develop it, all the help you give them will ultimately be wasted.

If you want to keep them as friends though you can't tell them that

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Rudy Hermawan 14 years ago

Hi Ryan,

I'm agree with your statement :

"Which is why NOW, I steer clear of those conversations and don't even offer up help. I might send them to the warrior forum to kinda prime the pump for some ideas, but I don't go through the trouble I used to. My new philosophy is that if people aren't willing to do their own digging, searching, and struggling, they aren't going to make it anyways....so why bother?"

Especially with this :
" ... if people aren't willing to do their own digging, searching, and struggling, they aren't going to make it anyways ... "

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- meganeven 14 years ago
  
  Hey, if people do enough digging to generate some specific questions, I'd be willing to help. It's just that they have to start digging first. I'm not going to be writing any step by step guide.
  
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  genietoast 14 years ago
  
  I get the opposite. I tell people about making money online, and they just nod and go, "Uh-huh. Uh-huh."
  
  Just when I think they're not interested, they refer me to a pal who asks question, is very interested in me helping them market, but, just as I expected, didn't have the money to pay for it.
  
  One time free for a friend, okay, but it will not become a habit. I don't do freeloaders.
  
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francof

14 years ago

Sounds like you should create some type of program, even if free on the front end (that you can monetize otherwise) and just casually answer questions but send those that insist to that program to get the basics so you don't have to keep answering the same questions and you can actually maybe even monetize your time and help them at the same time.

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Online Bliss

14 years ago

My sentiments exactly, I usually tell them to then go to YouTube and search for videos on the topic that they are asking me about. This will make them even more self-sufficient. Then if they do it I know that I have a serious person and will begin helping them.

What a Great idea Jay, I always struggle coming up with a quick answer when explaining what I do. I just want to talk about everything. On a blog I have no problem. If they would take the time to view videos on YouTube etc. first
we might be somewhat on the same page and it would be
much easier.

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MassiveMarketer

14 years ago

I have to agree. It gets to be frustrating sometimes. Some people lights up when they find out your making a lot of money doing this & that and asks you how you did it. Now when you try to help out, poof! You'll realize you've been giving too much effort trying to reach out and not even a little bit of effort from them to make their success!

Not just in IM but in other businesses out there, without an ounce of hardwork and determination, don't even think of getting big bucks! You'll always have to start somewhere to be there.

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Dominic

14 years ago

so interesting topic)

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abbie kye

14 years ago

Great post Ryan. It really gets frustrating trying to explain to people who seem to show interest only to find out that they did not do anything with all the info you gave them. I am a newbie actually and still learning myself. My hubby is an IT guy in his day job (when he has one, now at home after contract finished some time ago!) and thought since he spends so much time on the computer even at home IM is something that will interest him, i was wrong! He wants to see me make 'big money' first before he'll think about it. I've sent him to this forum, often to read about people's success stories, how they are doing it etc. I've been wasting my time. Now I don't discuss it anymore and just do my own thing quietly until I hit the big money!

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SmartyD

14 years ago

I don't say anything cause they all think i am full of cramp especially when i just say i earned a couple of bucks there like wow you just got a dollar from a click so what, and I don't like the negative feedback at all. So i just leave it as is I know I only made a dollar but they dont see what i see. I see the big money at the end while they just see that one dollar.

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ScottGordon

14 years ago

I don't tell anyone much of anything about what I'm doing.

If they ask what I do, I just say I'm a "marketing consultant" but that I'm not taking on any new clients at the moment.

Actually, many people in social situations really don't have any real interest in what you do. They're just making conversation. So for them, "marketing consultant" is vague enough and also specific enough that it fulfills their curiosity but doesn't give them enough info to ask many more questions.

If they do ask follow-up questions, I'm just equally vague or I simply deflect the questions with something like: "For confidentiality reasons, I can't discuss who my clients are or exactly what I do for them."

That adds a touch of mystery which sometimes impresses them.

Another answer I've tried out is: "I manipulate traffic patterns on the Internet." They don't have any idea what that means and it sounds way over their head so they move on to some other topic that's a little more comfortable.

And yet another answer to "What is it you do?" is: "Mostly boring stuff. I work a lot with spreadsheets."

Jim

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ikelove

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ryan D

For about 4 years, I continued my day job and worked nights/weekends building my business. I'm a little more on the private side when it comes to financial-type stuff and just figured it's easier to not tell friends. But, since my dad is my partner in one of these businesses, eventually it got around the type of volume we were doing with our businesses.

I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat, but once people find out about this stuff they are intrigued. Since earning income online is a little foreign to people, they naturally ask a lot of questions. At first, it was mostly my father's friends that owned their own business and wanted to expand online.

***sidenote: For those looking for offline business and the best strategy for getting it. Prove your worth and success by doing it for one business and referrals will come. I helped a guy out for free as a favor, but then had tons of people calling me asking me to help them.***

Eventually, all my friends were asking. Initially, I was excited for them. I spent a lot of time answering questions about how to get started. Gave them resources and offered help. But always, everything kinda faded out. It got to be where I wasted SO MUCH TIME with people who were genuinely sincere about wanting to make it online, only to have them totally bail.

Which is why NOW, I steer clear of those conversations and don't even offer up help. I might send them to the warrior forum to kinda prime the pump for some ideas, but I don't go through the trouble I used to. My new philosophy is that if people aren't willing to do their own digging, searching, and struggling, they aren't going to make it anyways....so why bother?

So a couple things...

--Kudos to you that made it online, there are not many that can do it.
--Kudos to you that spend a lot of time teaching newbies. I feel like I am a patient person, but I simply cannot tolerate people that look to me for information without showing the initiative to search it out themselves...or to even implement it.

I should mention also, this is the 80/20 for me. If someone comes back and says "Hey, i was checking out the warrior forum and it sounds like creating a content site with wordpress and monetizing with affiliate programs is the way to go. How do I install wordpress?" ......then now we're talking! But I don't spend too much time on the front-end unless they show some drive!

Ryan:

I'm still new at this, however, from reading your post, I believe your experience is why people charge for their services and this is a perfect opportunity to make money. People tend to take for granted things that are free, and take more serious things they have to pay for, because they're putting their money where their mouth is (for the most part, there are some people who still waste their money).

People who aren't into business don't understand why "experts" charge for sharing information and think of them as "scam artists." However, a true "expert" understands the value of what he's sharing and knows the more he charges, the more people appreciate what he has to offer.

That being said, start charging folks for the advice you offer, in order to separate the serious from the flaky!

Ike

Thanks

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