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Why would an entire thread be deleted?

by wwwBaron
16 replies
OK, so I am fairly new here, but a couple of hours ago there was a thread about some unscrupulous Warrior members copying and pasting other products and passing them off as their own.

There were several participants to the thread and I contributed one of my own observations. It seemed like a healthy, respectful, and valuable discussion.

Now I came back to see if there were additional replies to the thread and find that it has been wiped from existence.

I could see killing a particular comment if it appeared libelous or full of hate language, but waxing the whole thread smacks of censorship. Is this a free speech forum or not?
#censorship #deleted #entire #thread
  • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
    Is this a free speech forum or not?
    Not.

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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    This is a privately owned forum, not a democracy. You are given the privilege to post here, but that doesn't mean you can say anything you want.

    As an aside, there is no such thing as free speech, even where free speech is valued.
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    • Profile picture of the author wwwBaron
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      This is a privately owned forum, not a democracy. You are give the privilege to post here, but that doesn't mean you can say anything you want.

      As an aside, there is no such thing as free speech, even where free speech is valued.
      I won't get into a debate about the latter.

      I appreciate that it is a privately owned forum and that moderators have the right to remove material that is offensive, irrelevant, libelous, or spam. But removing a healthy discussion about some wrongdoers (that did not mention specific individuals) is whitewashing and gives the appearance - to me, at least - that the forum owners are protecting their own.

      In a word, it's distasteful and I think it dilutes the credibility of all other content on the site.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        But removing a healthy discussion about some wrongdoers (that did not mention specific individuals) is whitewashing and gives the appearance - to me, at least - that the forum owners are protecting their own.

        In a word, it's distasteful and I think it dilutes the credibility of all other content on the site.
        You call it a healthy discussion. Obviously a moderator did not agree or since members are moderators here, enough people disagreed with you and reported the post and it was pulled.

        The forum owners protecting their own? That's too funny. First, there is one owner, Allen Says. He put rules into place to protect the integrity of the entire forum. With 100,000 members or so, it would be total chaos without the rules.

        One post was removed and that dilutes the credibility of the rest of all other content on the site? Oooo - kay, sure, whatever you say.

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        • Profile picture of the author wwwBaron
          Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post


          The forum owners protecting their own? That's too funny.

          One post was removed and that dilutes the credibility of the rest of all other content on the site? Oooo - kay, sure, whatever you say.

          Tina
          Well, thanks for mocking me, Tina. That surely was the proper approach.

          As I said, I am relatively new here and I was stating how things appeared to me as a newcomer, trying to decide the merit of the content here.

          And surely you can see the fallacy of your last comment. Was it one thread deleted or 367? How could I know?

          But enough. I have sufficient information to work with now. Everyone please carry on with their lives.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
            Originally Posted by wwwBaron View Post

            Was it one thread deleted or 367? How could I know?
            What does it matter? If someone shows up and posts 367 spam threads to promote happy pills or whatnot, those 367 spam threads should be deleted. No sense keeping them around cluttering the forum.

            If a thread violates a rule, then it makes sense that it would be deleted. It shouldn't have been posted in the first place. Doesn't matter whether it was one thread or 367.

            Sometimes, I can immediately spot when a thread is breaking a rule, and, after being on the board for a while, you'll learn to recognize a doomed thread.

            Other times, I don't have a freakin' clue why a thread was deleted. That's why I've gotten in the habit of saving a copy of any thread that I feel has useful information.

            I understand the suspicion or frustration when threads disappear, even more so when it's a thread where I didn't see any obvious violation, but that's the way things go. But sometimes there's more to it than what you see.

            At any rate, I don't see where it's a credibility issue. Most of the threads I've started or posted in are still floating around here. If I wake up tomorrow and my post count is suddenly 100, then I'll start being suspicious.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by wwwBaron View Post

        I won't get into a debate about the latter.

        I appreciate that it is a privately owned forum and that moderators have the right to remove material that is offensive, irrelevant, libelous, or spam. But removing a healthy discussion about some wrongdoers (that did not mention specific individuals) is whitewashing and gives the appearance - to me, at least - that the forum owners are protecting their own.

        In a word, it's distasteful and I think it dilutes the credibility of all other content on the site.
        There really isn't a debate. It's against the law to slander people, to yell "fire" in a crowded theater, to incite riots, etc. These are restrictions on free speech that benefit society.

        As for your other comment, that's your opinion, you have a right to believe what you choose, even if it's most likely an incorrect conclusion. Caliban (CDarklock) already explained the most likely reason it was deleted.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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        Originally Posted by wwwBaron View Post

        I won't get into a debate about the latter.

        I appreciate that it is a privately owned forum and that moderators have the right to remove material that is offensive, irrelevant, libelous, or spam. But removing a healthy discussion about some wrongdoers (that did not mention specific individuals) is whitewashing and gives the appearance - to me, at least - that the forum owners are protecting their own.

        In a word, it's distasteful and I think it dilutes the credibility of all other content on the site.
        Just check the forum rules. You don't have to like them. You just have to abide by them. Or not. Your choice.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    It just happens sometimes.

    The idea of censorship here is a myth. When people sign up, they agree to follow certain rules. Not following those rules can lead to a thread being deleted, or the member being banned.

    That's not censorship, it's enforcing the rules.

    And Tina's right. This is NOT a free speech forum.

    That being said, it can be irritating when favorite threads get deleted, but the best advice I can give is to just move on.

    All the best,
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    • Profile picture of the author wwwBaron
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      And Tina's right. This is NOT a free speech forum.

      That being said, it can be irritating when favorite threads get deleted, but the best advice I can give is to just move on.

      All the best,
      Michael
      Thank you, I believe that I will...
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by wwwBaron View Post

    I could see killing a particular comment if it appeared libelous or full of hate language, but waxing the whole thread smacks of censorship. Is this a free speech forum or not?
    Let me expand a little on Tina's comment.

    We have a couple of rules here in this forum, as most forums do.

    One of those rules is that you don't criticise someone's WSO unless you have bought it. Otherwise, all the rough-and-tumble marketers would be slagging off their competitors all day long.

    Another is that you don't air your problems with another member on the forum. If you have a problem with someone else, it's between you and them and has nothing to do with the forum or its staff or the other people here.

    So if someone is criticising a particular WSO for being a copy-and-paste ripoff of another WSO, they're breaking both rules.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Then there are the unwritten rules...

    One is that you don't complain if your thread gets deleted. I know it wasn't your thread, so that doesn't apply here. Just mentioning it as an example of an unwritten rule.

    The only real way to get the hang of what those rules are is through regular participation.

    Is it perfect? No, nothing is. But all in all, I think the regular mods (everybody here) and the Super Mods do an excellent job of keeping the balance here just right.

    All the best,
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
    Is this a free speech forum or not?
    No it's not.

    This forum is owned by Allen Says and it is HIM who makes the rules and NOT us and it is US who have to KNOW the rules and FOLLOW them.

    That's how it works
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
    But enough. I have sufficient information to work with now. Everyone please carry on with their lives.
    Hey we all didn't start this thread.

    If you don't want responses delete it, simple
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  • Profile picture of the author Jagged
    Another rule of thumb is...threads started asking why certain threads were deleted.....usually get deleted themselves....
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Is this a free speech forum or not?
      Speaking as a moderator here, I'll answer officially: No.

      We have quite diverse ideas discussed here, sometimes in a bit rowdy fashion. When things get deleted, they are removed because they don't follow one or more of the rules and conventions here. They are removed by people who've been entrusted with maintaining the standards and usefulness of the forum. Those people are called moderators, and their function is precisely that of censor.

      Or, they've been reported by a sufficient number of members to warrant a moderator looking at them and making a decision.

      You can form whatever opinions and theories you like about why a given post or thread is removed. Until you've been here a long time, those ideas will almost certainly be wrong. They're wrong more than half the time even when formed by people with extensive experience here.

      For example, some people have publicly stated their belief that certain types of offers being banned from the WSO section was due to the mods wanting to keep out competition. Since most of those ideas were implemented by me, and I haven't run a WSO since November, that seems a bit out there. Anyone who's seen my products knows I'm not even writing about the sorts of topics that see much (if any) competition in that section when I do run one.

      The rest of the theories are equally bizarre and removed from the facts, but that doesn't stop people from asserting them as facts. So, join the crowd. Believe what you want, regardless of the absence of any real understanding of what's behind the decisions.

      Here's what's really behind them: We have a view and a set of principles defining what we believe this place should be. We make decisions based on those factors. Hang around and watch what we do, and you may, over time, come to understand how this place is run, and why.


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