My Biggest Takeaway After A Year

55 replies
So I'm sitting here today, a bit hung over, having celebrated a year on the Warrior Forum last night.

And I was thinking, what is my biggest takeaway from the past year?

If I were to choose one glib little statement, I'd have to go with PV Reymond's "If you are not making enough money, you are not helping enough people."

If I were to choose a "best" business model, it would have to be product creation. I have a presentation about this under construction in PowerPoint right now: the closer you are to the product, the more money you make.

But if I were to choose the single juiciest bit of info, the one I expect to make me the most money in the next year, it's this.

The face of the newbie is different today.

We always seem to imagine the newbie as someone fresh out of high school who wants to skip college and make a living overnight. This isn't the real newbie.

The real newbie these days is a guy who just found out the hard way that he can't rely on his employer to support him. He's been working hard like he was taught in school, like everyone told him would make him successful, and all it's gotten him is a $12 an hour job in a convenience store - where they've just cut his hours in half, and he's got rent due in a couple weeks.

This newbie doesn't need to make money fast to live some extravagant lifestyle. He needs to make money fast to feed his kids and pay the electric bill.

He doesn't need to make a lot of money, but he needs to turn his IM activity into a stable and reliable income quickly - and he needs to do it with minimal time, minimal expense, and minimal skill.

The key factor here is this. Finding a way he can do this is not easy. There is not a lot of short-term money in it.

But you are literally going to be his hero. You will save his life and the lives of his family. He will never forget you. And you can't buy that kind of loyalty... at any price.
#biggest #takeaway #year
  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    First off, congrats on your first year.

    Secondly, I think there is another kind of newbie and I was certainly one of
    them.

    The guy who is a skilled worker but is getting on in years, making a lot of
    money but the company he's working for downsizes or flat goes out of
    business and he finds that nobody will hire him because they can get a kid
    out of college to do what he does for half the money.

    That's where I was in 2000. It took me 3 years to finally break down and
    turn to the Internet, but I was literally left with no choice.

    I think in today's economy and with a lot of baby boomers probably finding
    themselves in a similar pickle, there are probably more of these folks than
    you can imagine.

    And helping these folks, or even getting them to let you try to help them,
    is not easy. Most, as they are up in years, are set in their ways, skeptical
    of almost everything, and think that they're smart enough to figure it all
    out on their own. I am speaking from personal experience here.

    So you've really got your work cut out for you with this demographic.

    Truth is, there are all kinds if newbies and there isn't a "one size fits all"
    mold.

    If there was, this whole business would be a lot easier.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Secondly, I think there is another kind of newbie and I was certainly one of them.
      So was I. In March of 2009, I was working at Microsoft (part of the team building the Kin), and had a nice healthy six-figure salary there.

      In April, they did their first-ever round of layoffs. First on the chopping block: contractors. Top of the list: the ones with the highest pay rates. And that meant me.

      But I call it "retired" - because it's all about the spin you put on it. Hey, I retired before I was forty.

      I think in today's economy and with a lot of baby boomers probably finding themselves in a similar pickle, there are probably more of these folks than you can imagine.
      I think it's a spiral which begins with chopping expenses and ends in about the same situation I just described. There's a long process of grudging acceptance that you don't really NEED this, or that, or these, or those, and you downsize your life until you just plain can't do it anymore.

      And at first, you think you're going to get another job. You look around, and you keep looking, and you discover things... like just how uninterested employers really are in the over-forty crowd. It's the flip of a switch. I used to walk away from one contract, and have a dozen people clamouring to hire me for a new one almost overnight. Then I turned forty, and the queue emptied right out.

      And I think it still ends in the same place. The newbie ends up here, asking for help, when it's a truly desperate situation - the bills are coming due, and the money just isn't there. Because he's not used to seeking help, and it rankles... he's gone from a proud expert in his chosen field, to being a rank newbie, and he's just not used to groveling for assistance. Especially from these damn kids.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author jdenc
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        So was I. In March of 2009, I was working at Microsoft (part of the team building the Kin), and had a nice healthy six-figure salary there.

        In April, they did their first-ever round of layoffs. First on the chopping block: contractors. Top of the list: the ones with the highest pay rates. And that meant me.

        But I call it "retired" - because it's all about the spin you put on it. Hey, I retired before I was forty.



        I think it's a spiral which begins with chopping expenses and ends in about the same situation I just described. There's a long process of grudging acceptance that you don't really NEED this, or that, or these, or those, and you downsize your life until you just plain can't do it anymore.

        And at first, you think you're going to get another job. You look around, and you keep looking, and you discover things... like just how uninterested employers really are in the over-forty crowd. It's the flip of a switch. I used to walk away from one contract, and have a dozen people clamouring to hire me for a new one almost overnight. Then I turned forty, and the queue emptied right out.

        And I think it still ends in the same place. The newbie ends up here, asking for help, when it's a truly desperate situation - the bills are coming due, and the money just isn't there. Because he's not used to seeking help, and it rankles... he's gone from a proud expert in his chosen field, to being a rank newbie, and he's just not used to groveling for assistance. Especially from these damn kids.
        Wow I feel like you just did my bio. I have never had trouble getting hired in the past. Job ends or lose a job? No biggie. Got a new one in a couple of weeks. But this time I am over 45 and they are just not interested. Not at all. Even for crap work. I am over qualified, under qualified, etc. It's taken me a long time to face up to it and now I am fighting back by doing it myself. I didn't lose anything when I turned 40 in fact I would say I am as good as I ever was. And in some ways even better. But heck with them if all they see is a birth date. I am going to make it in spite of them and on my own terms.

        I will not go down without a fight and I hope the resources here will help me leveling that field a bit.
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by jdenc View Post

          I will not go down without a fight and I hope the resources here will help me leveling that field a bit.
          Those of us who become newbies AFTER a career in brick and mortar business - even if it's just pumping gas or digging ditches - have some definite advantages over the fresh-faced HS grad who thinks he doesn't need to go to college. However, we also have disadvantages... namely the people who depend on us. That high schooler can fall down all he wants, and he doesn't drag anyone else with him. So while the game is the same, the stakes are higher, and we simply can't afford to lose.
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Profile picture of the author jdenc
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            Those of us who become newbies AFTER a career in brick and mortar business - even if it's just pumping gas or digging ditches - have some definite advantages over the fresh-faced HS grad who thinks he doesn't need to go to college. However, we also have disadvantages... namely the people who depend on us. That high schooler can fall down all he wants, and he doesn't drag anyone else with him. So while the game is the same, the stakes are higher, and we simply can't afford to lose.
            Much truth here. Failure is not an option for me and my margin for error is razor thin. I have a wife suffering from long term illness and letting her down is simply not acceptable to me. The pressure is enormous at times.
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      • Profile picture of the author Filter
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post


        You look around, and you keep looking, and you discover things... like just how uninterested employers really are in the over-forty crowd. It's the flip of a switch. I used to walk away from one contract, and have a dozen people clamouring to hire me for a new one almost overnight. Then I turned forty, and the queue emptied right out.
        I'm 41 tomorrow and know EXACTLY what you mean! We ARE the new newbies. There's no if's or buts, this has got to work for me!

        And congrats on your anniversary!! I'm looking forward to my hangover on Friday
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Lianelli
    Congrats on your first year here. The WarriorForum has been, and will always be an amazing place for online marketers.

    Many 'newbies' are looking for just some income, they're not interested in setting up a real business. They only think about the quick bucks, at least, that's my experience with newbies. And that's the same reason a lot of them fail.

    That's where we get back to your biggest 'AHA': "if you're not making enough money, you're not helping enough people".

    If your products or services don't add value to the lives and businesses of the customers - then you won't make a lot of money or be able to build a long-term business.
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    • Profile picture of the author la dominatrix
      [QUOTE=Dave Lianelli;2167245]

      Many 'newbies' are looking for just some income, they're not interested in setting up a real business. They only think about the quick bucks, at least, that's my experience with newbies. And that's the same reason a lot of them fail.

      QUOTE]

      Not sure I agree with that a lot of newbies are older they are my age in their mid fifties who have realised that their state pension is not going to add to their billls. They are old enough to know that quick bucks don't work
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Dave Lianelli View Post

      Many 'newbies' are looking for just some income, they're not interested in setting up a real business.
      It's a staircase. I was talking to someone about this last night, and I used a hypothetical guy named Bob. We went over Bob's reality and what his situation was, and what he needed was:

      - $10 a day starting now
      - $25 a day within two weeks
      - $50 a day within three months
      - $75 a day within one year
      - $100 a day to quit his day job

      And the scary part of this is that Bob is not some high-on-the-hog big spender. He's living and working below the poverty line. That $100 a day puts him at lower middle class.

      What would you tell someone who came in here and said "how can I make $10 a day RIGHT NOW and work that up to $25 within two weeks?"

      Because this newbie needs an answer... and I think there is one. But if he came in here and asked, I don't think he'd get it.

      He'd just be asking for it.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        It's a staircase. I was talking to someone about this last night, and I used a hypothetical guy named Bob. We went over Bob's reality and what his situation was, and what he needed was:

        - $10 a day starting now
        - $25 a day within two weeks
        - $50 a day within three months
        - $75 a day within one year
        - $100 a day to quit his day job

        And the scary part of this is that Bob is not some high-on-the-hog big spender. He's living and working below the poverty line. That $100 a day puts him at lower middle class.

        What would you tell someone who came in here and said "how can I make $10 a day RIGHT NOW and work that up to $25 within two weeks?"

        Because this newbie needs an answer... and I think there is one. But if he came in here and asked, I don't think he'd get it.

        He'd just be asking for it.
        I have asked a similar question time and time again. I always get the same answer... "That depends on the person and how much effort he puts into it."

        My question has been targeted to gurus who have names like "Classroom" or who claim they have a product that has been tested from scratch many times and proven to work. I would seriously expect any school teacher to be able to answer this question if he/she were teaching a class.

        My question is this:

        If I follow your program spending approximately 4 hours a day, five days a week, what could I reasonably expect to spend and receive over a period of time? An example answer might be: You should budget about $100/month for expenses and you can reasonably expect to earn $25 in either your first or second month and then double that about every other month for the first two years.

        OR

        If you follow this plan step-by-step, you can reasonably expect to receive your first sale by step 7. By step 10, you should have received enough to cover the cost of the course and begin making a profit each and every month. 1/2 or more students have been able to reach step 10 in less than two months, but some have taken as long as five months to reach that goal. In the few cases where students have reached step 12 without making a profit, those who repeated the process made a profit by step 10 the second time around.

        Due to the feedback and responses I have gotten, I have come to the conclusion that most gurus use the rich-jerk's method. That is to sell the course and turn the customer support over to the lowest bidder. Consider anyone who did not ask for a refund as a 'successful satisfied customer'.

        Anyone who proved the system should keep up with their own successes. Someone creating a blog a week could know that they "created 50 blogs and at six months 45 blogs were making a minimum of $3.00 and five turned out to be total flops making less than $1/day after a year."

        Obviously, the numbers and examples are fictitious.

        Anik Singal was one of those who could not (or would not) answer the question. Based on the free information he gives, I would think he at least knows how to make a profit in the non-IM niches.

        Actually, there is one person who sort of answered the question. Lee McKenna has a program where he guaranteed that you would make 1000 lbs sterling (more than $1000) per day if you followed his program every day. However, when I asked a question about it, he tried to sell me on the new program he is into which looks like MLM, at least partly. I hate having my income dependent on someone else who can pull the plug and take the profits so I shied away.

        Don't get me wrong, I think highly of both Anik and Lee. I am just surprised that with Anik and others, that given their experiences and the experiences of their students that they cannot or will not account for the measurable success timelines.
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by N4PGW View Post

          If I follow your program spending approximately 4 hours a day, five days a week, what could I reasonably expect to spend and receive over a period of time?
          That's a hard question.

          Most of the customers for my Zombie Blogging product are not even remotely following the system.

          I'd really like to know, in the next six or eight weeks, how much they've made with ZB - so I can put some numbers on the WSO.

          But so far, every customer I talk to has moved on.

          They're not really following the system, and they didn't put all that much time and effort into it in the first place.

          They did it once or twice, but then they got this other WSO, and it was exciting and new so they're doing that until... ooh, shiny.

          I have yet to find a single person who is actually doing what the system says to do.

          What can you make with this system?

          I have no freakin' clue.

          Every person using this system seems to fall into one of two categories.

          One, people who are successful and making reasonable money with it, without putting anywhere near twenty hours a week into it - even in the initial stages.

          Two, people who are doing damn near nothing and don't get a dime from it and probably never will.

          What would you make if you put twenty hours a week into it? Hell, I don't know. How could I know? Nobody's ever done that before.

          Looking at what the category one people are doing, I can predict you'll make a lot more than they do.

          But then, looking at what the category two people are doing, I could as easily predict you won't make a damn thing.

          And while the optimist in me wants to believe you're a category one person, still the realist in me knows you're probably category two.

          So what should I tell you?
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            That's a hard question.

            Most of the customers for my Zombie Blogging product are not even remotely following the system.

            I'd really like to know, in the next six or eight weeks, how much they've made with ZB - so I can put some numbers on the WSO.

            But so far, every customer I talk to has moved on.

            They're not really following the system, and they didn't put all that much time and effort into it in the first place.

            They did it once or twice, but then they got this other WSO, and it was exciting and new so they're doing that until... ooh, shiny.

            I have yet to find a single person who is actually doing what the system says to do.

            What can you make with this system?

            I have no freakin' clue.

            Every person using this system seems to fall into one of two categories.

            One, people who are successful and making reasonable money with it, without putting anywhere near twenty hours a week into it - even in the initial stages.

            Two, people who are doing damn near nothing and don't get a dime from it and probably never will.

            What would you make if you put twenty hours a week into it? Hell, I don't know. How could I know? Nobody's ever done that before.

            Looking at what the category one people are doing, I can predict you'll make a lot more than they do.

            But then, looking at what the category two people are doing, I could as easily predict you won't make a damn thing.

            And while the optimist in me wants to believe you're a category one person, still the realist in me knows you're probably category two.

            So what should I tell you?
            I got ZombieBlogging and read it. Flying monkeys, huh?

            Anyway, I am accustomed to a step-by-step guide such as pick a niche, pick a keyword, pick a product, write a review, post a website, post articles, blah, blah, blah.... rinse and repeat... blah, blah, blah...

            In such a case, I would have asked about how much someone would make the first time, then after so many repeats, etc. however, your system broke the mold.

            You are the first person who actually tried to answer the question, and in spite of your 'how do I answer that?' answer, you really answered it well. And, after seeing your book, I really understand your answer even better.

            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            I have yet to find a single person who is actually doing what the system says to do.
            Now for the million dollar question... Are you doing what the system says to do?

            I am going to sleep on this for now, but as I mentioned in the PM, I am thinking of following the plan in the last chapter, I call plan B as opposed to plan A. However, Plan A may be a faster method of building up the sites.

            Good night for now
            Buck
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by N4PGW View Post

              Now for the million dollar question... Are you doing what the system says to do?
              Embarrassingly enough, no. Like most people who have bought the system or read the threads, I am doing something entirely different with my blogs, and keep promising I'm going to start doing the pure Zombie Blogging thing "next week."

              But right now, I'm working on this "next step" system called the Zombie Companion, so I'm concentrating more on research and development than I am on building a basic horde. And honestly, my business is primarily funded through product creation, not through blogging... so the blogging angle, for me, is just an ancillary side business anyway.

              I pile up this huge list, you know, of one thing after another that I'm going to do "when I get time" (which, roughly translated, means "when I make enough money that I can stop doing what pays the bills for a while"). I've got this folder full of WSOs and products. Here's Brad Gosse with personality marketing; I have a new twist on that I'd like to try. Here's Teresa Miller with flipping Amazon books; I have a twist on that to try, too. Here's Suzanne Bucciarelli on website flipping; no twist there, just want to give the flipping thing a try.

              The list is almost endless. Brian McLeod on mastermind groups. AJ Silvers on Amazon arbitrage. Jenn Dize on some new freelance writing strategies. Chris Pambos on Clickbank marketing. Yaro Starak on membership sites. If I tried to do all of it, I'd never be finished... let alone be able to expand any of it into a real business of its own.

              But at some point, something will "click" and I'll deep-dive on that one strategy. And it's probably going to be somewhere between the strategies I've already got and the strategies other people are recommending... not in the spaces we know, but between them.
              Signature
              "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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              • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
                Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                Embarrassingly enough, no. Like most people who have bought the system or read the threads, I am doing something entirely different with my blogs, and keep promising I'm going to start doing the pure Zombie Blogging thing "next week."

                But right now, I'm working on this "next step" system called the Zombie Companion, so I'm concentrating more on research and development than I am on building a basic horde. And honestly, my business is primarily funded through product creation, not through blogging... so the blogging angle, for me, is just an ancillary side business anyway.

                I pile up this huge list, you know, of one thing after another that I'm going to do "when I get time" (which, roughly translated, means "when I make enough money that I can stop doing what pays the bills for a while"). I've got this folder full of WSOs and products. Here's Brad Gosse with personality marketing; I have a new twist on that I'd like to try. Here's Teresa Miller with flipping Amazon books; I have a twist on that to try, too. Here's Suzanne Bucciarelli on website flipping; no twist there, just want to give the flipping thing a try.

                The list is almost endless. Brian McLeod on mastermind groups. AJ Silvers on Amazon arbitrage. Jenn Dize on some new freelance writing strategies. Chris Pambos on Clickbank marketing. Yaro Starak on membership sites. If I tried to do all of it, I'd never be finished... let alone be able to expand any of it into a real business of its own.

                But at some point, something will "click" and I'll deep-dive on that one strategy. And it's probably going to be somewhere between the strategies I've already got and the strategies other people are recommending... not in the spaces we know, but between them.
                I didn't think so. LOL, I know you said it won't earn a full-time living and you are full-time marketer.

                I did decide to try it, tho. I setup my first zombie last night and my second this morning. I ran into a problem tho.

                I setup two gmail accounts and two blogs. The first is according to your instructions and the second was substituting articles from a directory. I felt safe monetizing the second zombie with adsense, but when I tried, google said the accounts had to be of the same owner as the adsense account.

                I loved it, and if it works at all, I would like to setup an affiliate link. (how do I get one?)

                I am anxious to see the Zombie's Bride you are working on.

                Thanks
                Buck
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  • Profile picture of the author GeekChick
    Great post. Congratulations on reaching a year. I love this:

    PV Reymond's "If you are not making enough money, you are not helping enough people."
    It's so true. So many people miss this. More on that in a second...

    I agree with your observations about newbies as well. There are so many folks who are so discouraged, who have been working hard at the 9-to-5, only to have the bottom drop out. I live in an area where jobs are hard to come by; my husband (a self-employed software developer) is contracted at the moment to a company in Canada. If his contract gets released, there's no options locally - it would mean, probably, near FT travel as many of his business contacts are on the east coast. We are both working to change that and be more in control of our future.

    The desperation of the newbie - of many of us, who are not even newbies, why we troll the WSOs and the IM product releases - is about having reached that place where the bottom has dropped out or you realize that it could, at any moment. It's not a nice place to be, needing to feed your family or pay the rent and not knowing how it's going to happen. When someone who has escaped the grind and succeeded at IM actually gives great information - some free and some at a reasonable price - not holding back, it's huge. There are people like that here, who have released amazing stuff for free.

    What happens? They find a loyal following. A loyal following = a warm market. Good all around. We all have found a few products that are just terrific. I know I have. When those folks send me an email, I read it. When they release a product, I'm seriously considering it.

    What would you tell someone who came in here and said "how can I make $10 a day RIGHT NOW and work that up to $25 within two weeks?"

    Because this newbie needs an answer... and I think there is one. But if he came in here and asked, I don't think he'd get it.
    I don't think he'd get it, either. And I've noticed that same lack.

    I don't have the answer, yet - my success is just starting and I've been plodding away for quite a while, able to do it part-time and without pressure. But I agree that I think it's possible. If we were to hit hard times right now, my baby would go to grandma's for day care and I'd be doing my best to try, with what I know.
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  • Profile picture of the author txconx
    My primary business has been in a slow decline for the last couple of years, which started me searching for alternatives a couple years ago. I started out with domain names then decided I could make more money if I had actual web sites. Learned a lot here and various other places over the last couple of years, getting better at it but still not where I'm making "day job" money.

    Due to a variety of circumstances, I'm now down to about 25% of the income I was making 6 months ago - and what I was making 6 months ago was a fraction of what I was making 2 years ago. A series of events transpired on Friday that I'm going to take as a sign; i.e., if I can make decent money on my web sites when I haven't given them nearly the attention I should have, what kind of money would I make if I was actually working on it? Due to the series of events, I'm going to have the time to find out.

    Not quite a newbie, not desperate (hopefully I won't ever be) but not young, either. I'm really looking forward to making money in an environment with no clients, no deadlines, no contractors, and no employees.
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  • Steven, I think my experience as a newbie was similar yet different to yours. I too was out of work due to downsizing and cutting back on expenses. But in my case, it has been much harder to get back into Journalism because of Labor Unions. YEP, thank the liberals for those. Labor Unions protect the ones who have been around the longest but aren't necessarily working the hardest. That sour experience behind me I had to find an alternate mean of earning a living.

    So, with an Internet Marketer as a husband, I turned to writing SEO articles. It has been rewarding and challenging, but a learning experience all in itself.
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  • Profile picture of the author femfatale68
    Arghhh I'm at a loss, guys! You forgot about ME!, the single mom or parent who is supplementing income... and dreaming big, like any newcomer here or otherwise. My immigrant parents did so in such a way when they came over from Europe and I was just a tot. Having my own business is in my bloodline. Being of a start up mentality is second nature to me. I can do it and Just do it should be the way-- the norm here-- the mantra

    It takes a warrior type of mentality to persevere and see it through to the end. And that's what brings us all together. We are comrades-- we are warriors !
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  • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
    Congratulations on your first Warrior Forum anniversary Caliban, your contributions have definitely made a positive impact here. Looking forward to more from you in the future.

    Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author TravisVOX
      Fascinating thread. I'll also add.... being in the position where you feel, but aren't certain, but are fairly certain, the bottom is going to drop out in a few months is brutal. You have the drive to make changes before the changes come for you, but you still have the psychological security that the paycheck will be there tomorrow night.

      It's a very scary, lonely and uncertain place. Hard to describe.
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      • Profile picture of the author davidjames42973
        When I was a newbie, all I was looking for was to make an extra $200 a month. My work at the time decided to cut my overtime. Because of this, I was completely strapped.

        It's funny because if you told me over 3 years ago how much money I would make in online marketing every month nowadays I wouldn't believe it. LOL!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ty Neal
    Congratulations on your first Warrior Forum anniversary, I have been seeing your post and you give a lot of value to the forum my friend. Awesome story as well
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      So I'm sitting here today, a bit hung over, having celebrated a year on the Warrior Forum last night.
      You've only been here a year? My gosh, it seems like forever!

      Seriously, congrats on that. I was a newbie over a decade ago, but I too entered the field after being laid off when I was in my forties. I called myself newly self-employed. Fortunately, I had a hobby website at the time and was able to turn it into a commercial website and earn my living from it with relative ease.

      The "key" to that, in my opinion, wasn't that I was some kind of genius, but that I had been following Zig Ziglar's advice for a few years, which is very similar to your quote of PV Reymond.
      "You an have anything in life you want if you'll just help enough others get what they want."
      - Zig Ziglar
      I was impressed with that Ziglar quote from the moment I read it. I had been helping people with website design for about two years and never asked for money. I had built up a lot of good will. When it was time to go commercial, it was almost like turning on a light switch, it was just a natural transition for the most part. Even with my first "product," which was custom graphics, I didn't attach a price tag to them. I let people pay me what they were worth to them.

      I didn't know a thing about internet marketing. Not sure if I'd even heard of the term at that time. I just did what I thought would work, and much of it did. The lesson newbies might take away from my story is that it's possible to make money without studying all the systems and methods. You don't have to know everything. You can have some holes in your knowledge, I sure did, and still do if I'm honest about it.

      I was clueless. I had never run a business before. I made up my own record keeping system. I'm still using it today. For promotion I started a goofy club called the Wack Attack. I gave stuff away to people who linked to me, and I linked back to them. I ran contests. I did whatever I could think up that I thought would work. And some of it worked.

      Too many people are afraid of making mistakes. Honest mistakes won't kill you, but they will help you learn what works and what doesn't. With the right attitude, we fail forward. You don't have to get everything right the first time. Or the second. Or ever. You just have to do the best you can with what you have at the moment without becoming obsessive about it. Perfection doesn't exist.

      Again, congrats Caliban. I look forward to another year of your contributions here.
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  • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
    Congrats on your 1st year. It says I've been here for more than 2, but I've regrettably only been active for just over 1.

    I was the first kind of newbie (fresh out of high school), except I've never had any thoughts of dropping out of university, nor have I ever had any dreams of overnight riches.

    Being young, I can't fully empathize with those who had had JOBs, gotten laid off, have kids to feed, etc. because I've never had a FT job or kids.

    I feel fortunate to have never had a FT job. I'll never understand what it's like to have one, nor to feel immense financial pressure (e.g. not having enough to make next payment on the house).

    An interesting discussion for another time is whether it's better to discover IM when you're young (like 18 years old) or when you're older.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

      An interesting discussion for another time is whether it's better to discover IM when you're young (like 18 years old) or when you're older.
      I've been full-time in my own business on three occasions; once as a teenager offline, once in my early thirties in sort of a hybrid online/offline sense, and now in my late thirties purely online.

      I can say from my own perspective that without understanding and resonating with the offline business owner and the rank-and-file office worker, I would do a lot less business. But at the same time, I don't think it's necessary to do the same kind of business I do... so I'm really leaning in the direction that it's not better or worse at either time, just different.

      I think the amount of experience and knowledge you've gained in later years is certainly useful, but I also see that it can be limiting. I would never try to do some of the crazy stuff I did in my teens today, and some of that stuff worked.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michele Buch
        There are many faces of newbies. A big group you didn't mention are women who want to raise their children themselves instead of working a job and sending the children to daycare.
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Michele Buch View Post

          A big group you didn't mention are women who want to raise their children themselves instead of working a job and sending the children to daycare.
          My intent wasn't to identify all the different kinds of newbies, but to identify the one group I think is being most overlooked. There are several dozen communities out there for mothers who telecommute or otherwise work from home, whether as the primary breadwinner of the family or to supplement a partner's income.
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    • Profile picture of the author jdenc
      Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

      Congrats on your 1st year. It says I've been here for more than 2, but I've regrettably only been active for just over 1.

      I was the first kind of newbie (fresh out of high school), except I've never had any thoughts of dropping out of university, nor have I ever had any dreams of overnight riches.

      Being young, I can't fully empathize with those who had had JOBs, gotten laid off, have kids to feed, etc. because I've never had a FT job or kids.

      I feel fortunate to have never had a FT job. I'll never understand what it's like to have one, nor to feel immense financial pressure (e.g. not having enough to make next payment on the house).

      An interesting discussion for another time is whether it's better to discover IM when you're young (like 18 years old) or when you're older.
      When I was 18 the internet was still mostly a gleam in Al Gores eye. I wish I had had the chance to start learning this then. No pressure of people depending on you. Failure stings but doesn't take anyone else with you. A chance to learn which means a few fails along the way without it keeping you up at night. Get in while you're young and work it if you get the chance I say.

      My wife was unable to have kids and her illness pretty much precludes adoption, children just couldn't be my focus. But I have a couple of nephews I intend to help if I can get in here, be successful and do it in a way that can be duplicated. I would also love to help our parents. They are retired and they have been hit hard several times in the last few years. I would love to help them really enjoy retirement on their own terms. Those are really the things that would make me feel successful.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    The good thing is you are getting close to the target for your product. Walk a mile in their shoes and you will have a better connection to them .
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  • Profile picture of the author DrGUID
    A nice story here, well done CDarklock.

    It's also a nice story about a big business that's lost it's way. I'm talking Microsoft. I'm a software developer. Sharepoint Portal Designer is the worst development tool I've ever used. MS SQL Server's latest GUI is horrible, and SQL Server die hards hate it. Bing is junk, what a tremendous waste of money. My Windows Mobile phone has incredible bugs, sometimes even the alarm clock doesn't go off.

    Maybe sacking all the highest paid staff has resulted in this?
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by DrGUID View Post

      It's also a nice story about a big business that's lost it's way. I'm talking Microsoft.
      Interesting perspective. Given the problem of reducing expenses, they chose to terminate the most expensive temporary contracts early. What would you suggest they might have done instead? Terminate a larger number of less-expensive temporary contracts, or terminate permanent employees instead?
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarah Russell
    CDarklock - thanks for sharing! Your point on the "new newbies" is definitely something to keep in mind, especially considering all the interesting research that's being done on the different mindsets of each generation in the workforce today. I think it's important to keep in mind that older newbies will respond to different pitches and different products in general than younger newbies.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    I was a software developer for a small company in Illinois, this was before 9/11. I know it sounds a little re-hashed, but after 9/11 things really went down, all companies in the Chicago area downsizing and laying off.
    So..i ended up at Motorola doing physical work, VERY BADLY paid. Hard labor from 7am to 3pm every day. Motorola was FULL with former software engineers, people with degrees who got laid off and now WERE GLAD they got $10 (!) hour doing some data-entry or whatever. Some even came down from WI to do that job.

    Later on i moved to TN...and don't get me started with the "job situation" is TN Because there was no such thing really. Anyway...that's how i got started in IM.

    CDL, it must suck having had such a well paid job at Microsoft and gotten laid off.

    But...thinking back...i do NOT believe that software engineer is my dream job anymore...actually its tedious and boring..ESPECIALLY working for someone else. I like programming for myself and my projects..but i hate doing it for other people
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      Motorola was FULL with former software engineers, people with degrees who got laid off and now WERE GLAD they got $10 (!) hour doing some data-entry or whatever.
      Microsoft snapped up a whole slew of Motorola's people when those layoffs happened; the Kin project at Microsoft was (and is) loaded with former Motorola hardware engineers.

      One of the interesting phenomena there is that because Microsoft snapped up the best and the brightest from that layoff, it devalued the people who weren't picked up by Microsoft. But we already had a massive software team; it was hardware we needed.

      So a lot of the software guys ended up develued through no fault of their own, because the onlookers didn't understand the difference. Motorola laid off a bunch of people, and Microsoft swooped in to hire a bunch of them, leaving the inferior ones behind... on the hardware side. The software guys were just innocent bystanders.

      The result of human action... but not human intent. All Microsoft wanted was to get great hardware engineers on the team, and that's precisely what they did. What happened to everybody else was entirely because of the story everyone else made up in their head.
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  • Profile picture of the author CanuckWarrior
    Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

    The face of the newbie is different today.

    We always seem to imagine the newbie as someone fresh out of high school who wants to skip college and make a living overnight. This isn't the real newbie.

    The real newbie these days is a guy who just found out the hard way that he can't rely on his employer to support him. He's been working hard like he was taught in school, like everyone told him would make him successful, and all it's gotten him is a $12 an hour job in a convenience store - where they've just cut his hours in half, and he's got rent due in a couple weeks.

    This newbie doesn't need to make money fast to live some extravagant lifestyle. He needs to make money fast to feed his kids and pay the electric bill.

    He doesn't need to make a lot of money, but he needs to turn his IM activity into a stable and reliable income quickly - and he needs to do it with minimal time, minimal expense, and minimal skill.

    The key factor here is this. Finding a way he can do this is not easy. There is not a lot of short-term money in it.

    But you are literally going to be his hero. You will save his life and the lives of his family. He will never forget you. And you can't buy that kind of loyalty... at any price.
    Another newbie profile to target are people who want to get off the corporate tread mill at some point but do it on their terms. When I started out in IM, it wasn't because I needed the money or was about to lose my job, it was just an opportunity to eventually replace my current income while continuing to work.

    Mind you I feel like a moron for wasting so much money on absolute garbage before it all finally clicked. But hey, at least I survived the newb curve. Sadly, not everybody survives the financial raping from the so-called gurus before it clicks.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by CanuckWarrior View Post

      Another newbie profile to target are people who want to get off the corporate tread mill at some point but do it on their terms.
      I think that violates the "starving crowd" rule. The guy who's already working a corporate job and doing IM on the side simply isn't that motivated to make IM work. Most people don't make the leap until they're pushed.
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      • Profile picture of the author CanuckWarrior
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        I think that violates the "starving crowd" rule. The guy who's already working a corporate job and doing IM on the side simply isn't that motivated to make IM work. Most people don't make the leap until they're pushed.
        Not everybody is starving for money. In fact, targeting people who actually have money but are starving in a different way would be profitable (IF done in the correct manner).

        For example, I know lots of people who are DESPERATE to get off the corporate ladder. They're just looking for the right opportunity and are willing to pay for it.

        However, I think the real problem is the way it's promoted to this market segment. In the typical business world (i.e. outside of internet marketing) anybody who makes idiotic claims like: Buy this new $197 product through my link and I'll throw in my exclusive $8,923 bonus is automatically written off as a tanning bed-gold chained-fake Rolex watch-hair implant scam artist.

        Even to this day, I absolutely refuse to buy anything from people who email me that kind of crap and rarely open anything they send. It's beyond obnoxious. I will also go out of way to ensure they don't get the sale if I ever do buy that product.

        On the other hand if someone respects their mailing list, never spams it and only recommends quality products that will genuinely help me, I have no problem buying through their link.

        However, if the target market is people with a lotto mentality who will only churn and burn then I'm sure the huckster approach will produce awesome results.
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        • Profile picture of the author Adam Nolan
          You're a good man, Caliban.

          And I'm a poet and didn't know it!
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by CanuckWarrior View Post

          For example, I know lots of people who are DESPERATE to get off the corporate ladder.
          Then why are they on it?

          Every single day, they could walk up to the boss and give notice.

          But they don't.

          They're not as desperate as they claim to be.

          We all know the "ham and eggs" analogy of business: the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed.

          These people want to get involved. They don't want to be committed.

          And no, the double meaning of that is not lost on me.
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          • Profile picture of the author CanuckWarrior
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            Then why are they on it?

            Every single day, they could walk up to the boss and give notice.

            But they don't.

            They're not as desperate as they claim to be.
            Commitment and a prideful lack of common sense are two completely different things.

            A person (especially one supporting a family) would be unwise (putting it kindly) to simply walk in and give their notice to get off the ladder without a solid exit strategy in place. That's just impulsive idiocy.

            However, I'm just some obscure guy on a forum, so what do I know?

            Maybe the advice of someone like Bob Parsons (founder of GoDaddy) who has made hundreds of millions on the internet might hold more clout.

            Check out his vlog September 4, 2009 - #29: Want to build a HOT Business? 5 steps that get YOU there. How they worked for Me!
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by CanuckWarrior View Post

              A person (especially one supporting a family) would be unwise (putting it kindly) to simply walk in and give their notice to get off the ladder without a solid exit strategy in place.
              Nothing is more solid than the bird in your hand.

              But you can't grab onto anything else until you let it go.
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          • Profile picture of the author paulie888
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            Then why are they on it?

            Every single day, they could walk up to the boss and give notice.

            But they don't.

            They're not as desperate as they claim to be.

            We all know the "ham and eggs" analogy of business: the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed.

            These people want to get involved. They don't want to be committed.

            And no, the double meaning of that is not lost on me.
            So true, one has to be really committed to IM in order to make any significant headway. This is not a casual part time hobby or a part time job, like so many people I've encountered treat it. Unfortunately, this just won't sink into their heads even if I beat them senseless with a stick, lol.

            I've been rather fond of reading how the big IMers got their start in the business, and it was almost invariably borne out of necessity. I really admire the people who have had the tenacity and perseverance to finally make something out of IM, like Stephen Pierce - he was once a down and out drug dealer that was literally fighting for his life in a mean ghetto, and he has the bullet wounds to prove it. To say that he was committed back then to using IM as a vehicle to get out of his circumstances would be a gross understatement.
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  • Profile picture of the author JayPeete
    Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

    The face of the newbie is different today.

    We always seem to imagine the newbie as someone fresh out of high school who wants to skip college and make a living overnight. This isn't the real newbie.

    The real newbie these days is a guy who just found out the hard way that he can't rely on his employer to support him. He's been working hard like he was taught in school, like everyone told him would make him successful, and all it's gotten him is a $12 an hour job in a convenience store - where they've just cut his hours in half, and he's got rent due in a couple weeks.

    This newbie doesn't need to make money fast to live some extravagant lifestyle. He needs to make money fast to feed his kids and pay the electric bill.
    You are so right about the face of the new newbie!
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    Congratulations on a year well spent in here, Caliban. Your observations are right on target, and it's certainly a noble cause that you have dedicated yourself to. In today's uncertain economic and political climate, there are more and more down and out people getting laid off, demoted, or working several jobs just to get by. You're right that the majority don't want to get obscenely rich through IM, they just want a safety net they can fall back on so that they can cover their basic necesssities like food and rent and bills. Unfortunately, I feel like this uncertain climate is not going to change anytime soon, and I do hope that you succeed in breaking through to these newbies in showing them a viable, consistent and dependable alternative of earning money via IM, something that they'll actually take action on and benefit from.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
    CDarklock,

    Congrats on your first year.

    Just wanted to say I've found much of what you add to the forum extremely helpful.

    Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author tyroneshum
    So true and congratulations on your anniversary.

    Well, all I can say as well is that without a perfect business model plus the passion in it, you'll not be able to get even happier. So bottomline is, always mix in passion and inspiration to whatever you're doing and you'll highly be successful with that even if you're still a newbie or not.

    Great post!

    If I were to choose one glib little statement, I'd have to go with PV Reymond's "If you are not making enough money, you are not helping enough people."

    If I were to choose a "best" business model, it would have to be product creation. I have a presentation about this under construction in PowerPoint right now: the closer you are to the product, the more money you make.
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  • Profile picture of the author SeanBeardmore
    Congratulations on your first year!

    I made the decision after being laid off for the second time in one year that I would be better starting on my own and with my passion in IM, I decided to go for it!

    You are right, the new newbie is a new breed of newbie.



    All the best!

    Sean
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    • Profile picture of the author Matthew Duggan
      Originally Posted by SeanBeardmore View Post

      I made the decision after being laid off for the second time in one year that I would be better starting on my own and with my passion in IM, I decided to go for it!
      Good for you Sean. I hope your post provides inspiration for many others to take control and responsibility for their lives in the way that you clearly have.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthew Duggan
    Really excellent points. I was at an IM event recently and I was one of the youngest people in the room at 26. Most of the people were exactly as you've described: Men and women who really need and want to live a better life and provide for their loved ones, not the millionaire wannabes we associate with IM newbies.

    As Thoreau so beautifully put it: 'Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.'

    We can help give them the financial help they need to leave that desperation.

    Congratulations on a great first year! Glad to have connected with you on here.

    Matt


    Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

    The face of the newbie is different today.

    We always seem to imagine the newbie as someone fresh out of high school who wants to skip college and make a living overnight. This isn't the real newbie.

    The real newbie these days is a guy who just found out the hard way that he can't rely on his employer to support him. He's been working hard like he was taught in school, like everyone told him would make him successful, and all it's gotten him is a $12 an hour job in a convenience store - where they've just cut his hours in half, and he's got rent due in a couple weeks.

    This newbie doesn't need to make money fast to live some extravagant lifestyle. He needs to make money fast to feed his kids and pay the electric bill.

    He doesn't need to make a lot of money, but he needs to turn his IM activity into a stable and reliable income quickly - and he needs to do it with minimal time, minimal expense, and minimal skill.

    The key factor here is this. Finding a way he can do this is not easy. There is not a lot of short-term money in it.

    But you are literally going to be his hero. You will save his life and the lives of his family. He will never forget you. And you can't buy that kind of loyalty... at any price.
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  • Profile picture of the author JustKid
    Excellent post there CD. Although I find myself on the other side of the fence. I do live in a middle income household with my family. So no story here about me getting laid off or anything, I just found IM to be a fascinating thing and eventually 2years later as a high school junior here I am a war room member actually doing the stuff I wanted to do but didn't want to ask my parents to give me thier hard earned money so that I could get what I want.

    Also CD and co. we forgot to mention the class of newbies that want money NOW! and only lives to make the quick buck and not start a long time buisness.
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    • Profile picture of the author BCJason
      Thanks for the thread. I can relate to this.I hope the hangover is wearing off.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
        It hasn't been very long, historically speaking, that we as a society, have been expecting someone else to take care of us, instead of relying on our own selves to take care of ourselves and our families. No stone throwing here, I spent most of my life in large organizations, military and the education system, and the first thing you learned in orientation was how to set up your retirement to get teh most bang for your invested dollar.

        But nowhere did I learn, and I spent a lot of years working in schools, how to take care of my own life and provide for my family without relying on a big organization to do that for me.

        When I first signed up to the WF, back when you had to buy something to get in, I learned a lot of things. THings I never even knew existed. And found a lot of folks who thought differently than my background had taught me to think.

        I am not sure now, that a person starting out, could find a reasonably quick way to start making money online here in the WF. I don't kow the answer to that. I know that if they browsed through the WSO section, they wouldsee a lot of people offering the solutions for sale. And some of those might work, I do not know I have not tried them all. I know that many of the ones I have tried, with the exceptions of services provided, have not been repeatable on a scale big enough to be sustainable.

        And when I see multiple products teaching how to make money through offering through offering WSO's, I start to wonder if a new person could easily find a simple and repeatable system that would work starting today.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenwrites
    I too bought the "Zombie Blogging" just to generate a few dollars for other necessary marketing software down the road. Excellent read. Setting up my first set this evening and duplicating every day.

    Congrats on your anniversary too!
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    Tried and true method to make money from home. Click here for the method that continually brings me $100s daily. (Excellent for Beginners)
    Information on content writing sites and making money with your writing at The Freelancer Today.

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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Kenwrites View Post

      just to generate a few dollars for other necessary marketing software
      Now THAT is a good use for ZB... put a throttle on your IM purchases, so you have a specific source which never gets so big that you can't process the information you buy. That's an awesome thought. I'm totally stealing it.
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      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author Winlin
    Congratulations on your first year. I've read many of your posts and feel you always have something solid to add.... Thank You

    I'm hoping I can have half the forum credibility as you seem to by the end of my first year.
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