bad news..

[Chris_Willow]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Think I'm kidding, unfortunately not.. I had three in
my Gmail account this morning

John

Heh, This morning I got 2 from Ed Dale, One from Bob Serling and a couple of 'bad news' from other marketers

[Johnny12345]

Frank,

It would have been nice if you had included a link to (or PDF of) the sales letter you were using as an example in your video.

Johnny

P.S. Your "Mass Control" nonsense has absolutely no effect on me. None whatsoever...

P.P.S. Hey, did I mention that I just bought a surf board yesterday and I don't even live within a thousand miles of a beach. And I'm growing my hair out so I can bleach it blond and then I'm gonna get some blue contact lenses and start going barefoot all the time. Oh, and where can I buy one of those lap guitars?!

P.P.P.S. No sir, your fancy "mind control" marketing tricks won't work on me...

[Josh Anderson]

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

Hey guys,

Regardless of how you feel about the "bad news" headline, I can tell you that I've used it with tremendous success for over the last 3 months.

It worked really well. But now Frank has gone and ruined it in the IM crowd. Bastard!

However, I knew it wouldn't be a wise move to use it today.

So, I thought long and hard, consulted the little minions running around in my head, and settled on...


"horrible news".

I saw "Willie Crawford" sent out ...

"good news".


I thinking of trying...

"Fox news" next.

How 'bout using"

"Mo' News"

I would definitely click

[frank-kern]

How can I give myself an infraction? Is that possible?

[Jose Delgado]

I'll give you one frank.

[John Taylor]

Originally Posted by frank-kern

How can I give myself an infraction? Is that possible?

I think you need a more "adult" forum for that

John

[SeanIM]

Interesting how this is a thread focused on a redundant subject line rather than the incestuous nature of everyone's lists.

Personally I think His Kerness rocks at what he does and I dig watching him do it...if someone is too lazy to swap a subject line...whatever...maybe they wanted to see how effective the cut & paste exercise would be.

Why not test it out!?



type-atcha-later,
Sean

[Steve Peters Benn]

Jose - really, do we need more fake stars???? Honestly can we have an infraction for that that - before you know it everyone will have them - Allen might as well bring back the star system.

As for the "bad news" issue -who will remember it in a few weeks? Most probably msot will forget - the rash of emails will be gone. At the moment, the rubber neck seems like a cheap trick.

Smart marketers won't forget what Frank has taught them - they will use it intellgently and in context, not as some cheap trick.

I guess it comes down to the issue that you can lead a horse to water....

[Mark Riddle]

While it may be easy to pick on people who copy the words BAD NEWS, THEY may be doing so is because They didn't actually look at the presentation.

They Listened to it,

Here's the difference

BAD NEWS was sent to a very small list and had a very high unsubscribe rate.

Using the metrics that were shown, (and there are several that we simply don't know)
The Bad news list also was titled Whistle blower.

The campaigns were NOT sent to the same people.

Each list has their own reason for existing.

Here's a real earth shattering thought

When the subject of the list matches the Subject of the list you'll get a higher response. (what did he just say)


Let me say it in another way When the topic on your subject line matches the offer and benefits that were used to build the list, you will get more responses.

For example, New Cat Toy Improves Feline health

The open rates, click rates or unsubscribe rates will not be the same to a Dog Breeders list as it would to a Feline Health list.

Its not the wording,

It IS send your list things your list will be interested in.


Mark

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by Jose Delgado

I'll give you one frank.

Oooo.... you meant an infraction, right?

Jay

[MikeAmbrosio]

Funny how this stuff works sometimes.

A big launch rolls around, suddenly we see all of these emails with the same subject line, etc.

Then, we come to the Warrior Forum and see all the basically same responses to it:

"Yup - I unsubscribed from many lists today"

"People won't learn with all this copy and paste stuff"

And so on.

I giggle...brightens my day.

[BobbyWalker]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Now that Frank Kern has let the "Rubberneck" cat
out of the bag we're going to be inundated with
emails with the subject "bad news.."

Think I'm kidding, unfortunately not.. I had three in
my Gmail account this morning

John

You're right John...

But I would still love to be in Kern's shoes...
even for just a day!

Thx,

Bobby

[Peter Bestel]

Originally Posted by BobbyWalker

You're right John...

But I would still love to be in Kern's shoes...
even for just a day!

Thx,

Bobby

He doesn't wear any !! (And yet he talks to us about finesse!! Sheesh!)

[Scott Ames]

I'm quick on the draw today. I just saw the video so I now know what everyone is talking about.

[Paul Myers]

Roger,

Wedgie? I thought 'wedgie' was an Americanism for a great sport that (of course) we invented over here, which we call 'a melvin.' The sport involves running up behind someone and pulling up their pants (knickers? underpants?) really firmly.

That's one interpretation of giving someone a gravitational assist with their knicker elastic...

My first post in the thread was off the point, which I completely missed. I hadn't seen Frank's latest video, and thought the post was about copying promotional emails, not just the subject line.

Ooops. Bad news for me.

In my defense, when I got that email from him, I had just finished watching the DVD of him in which he details the unfortunate incident with the cantaloupe. One can only take so much of that kind of video in a day...


Paul

[JaniG]

i personally think the "bad news" headline is awesome.

i sent a email to my list with this same title to promote my product, and sure enough i got a higher open rate which turned into sales.

Jani

[Kevin Riley]

Originally Posted by frank-kern

How can I give myself an infraction? Is that possible?

No need to. Sure don't blame you. It's the mindless minions who blindly start using tactics without thinking. Need that warning, "Put mind in gear before releasing clutch"

I was surprised to see your buddy Koenigs use "Bad News". Tell him I had him pegged for being a wee bit smarter than that ;-D

[SeanIM]

Originally Posted by teamfire

i personally think the "bad news" headline is awesome.

Agreed...I always wondered why people tuned into "bad news" so heavily until one day, a long time ago in a social-psych class, I was taught this phrase/concept called Automatic Vigilance...pretty interesting schtuff...

Emotion and Cognition: The Case of Automatic Vigilance

[mbrown]

Today was one of those moments where I could literally smack myself.

I actually sent out an email with a similar subject line, it's one I've used many time before when promoting either one of my own products or someone elses.

It read "Terrible News" Often times before I've used "This is Terrible News" "You won't believe this unfortunate news" and of course just plain "terrible news" ect.

I could literally "insert foot in mouth" or onto finger tips if you will... as later I checked out Frank's vids and almost couldn't believe it...

I watch my email inbox all day to see when someone would bring up that I was using Frank's email line.. lol

Just poor poor timing.

However, I honestly believe there is still a time and place for that type of subject line and as Frank pointed out in his video it does make someone look and think. Humans are drawn to negativity even if what you promote is something positive.

That said the effectiveness may wear off for the near future from mere copycats as marketers scramble to use it.

In any event looks like I'll have to temporarily retire the "terrible news" line as it's way too close. Copying Frank isn't a bad thing, but copying the droves of followers thereafter can't be...

[mbrown]

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

So, I thought long and hard, consulted the little minions running around in my head, and settled on...


"horrible news".

I saw "Willie Crawford" sent out ...

"good news".


I thinking of trying...

"Fox news" next.

Jason,

Good point I'd open the "fox news" line just to see what that's about. Heck I used "Cow Nipples" in a subject line.. so I'll use almost anything

Doesn't Russia and a couple other countries have "Naked News" where all the hose get naked slowly throughout the show?

Maybe we can start using that one? That might get some good open rates too?

[Kevin Riley]

Originally Posted by mbrown

Today was one of those moments where I could literally smack myself.

I actually sent out an email with a similar subject line, it's one I've used many time before when promoting either one of my own products or someone elses.

It read "Terrible News" Often times before I've used "This is Terrible News" "You won't believe this unfortunate news" and of course just plain "terrible news" ect.

I could literally "insert foot in mouth" or onto finger tips if you will... as later I checked out Frank's vids and almost couldn't believe it...

I watch my email inbox all day to see when someone would bring up that I was using Frank's email line.. lol

Just poor poor timing.

However, I honestly believe there is still a time and place for that type of subject line and as Frank pointed out in his video it does make someone look and think. Humans are drawn to negativity even if what you promote is something positive.

That said the effectiveness may wear off for the near future from mere copycats as marketers scramble to use it.

In any event looks like I'll have to temporarily retire the "terrible news" line as it's way too close. Copying Frank isn't a bad thing, but copying the droves of followers thereafter can't be...

Funnily enough, it was Michael I was thinking of when I made the "Put brain in gear first" crack. But then I realized that a bear of very little brain can't be expected to think too hard. Poor Michael quite strains himself some days and then has to resort to getting advice from John Mann - something that I highly recommend against.

[mbrown]

Kevin,

For the record I have never taken John Mann's advice. For instance, he told me not to listen to you Now, would that be wise?

Kevin called me on this subject and we laughed for a good bit on my coincidental mishap. But, we agreed I should start looking at my email box when I get 100 emails from other marketers telling me to go look at some video. Before I send out anymore emails

*Re-puts brain in first gear* BTW, kevin - Mann says ROLF!

[fred67]

If Frank put out a video about watching paint dry I'd probably watch it all the way through.

He's got real charisma and he's a 'Blokes Bloke' as well as probably a 'babe-magnet'.

He's got what most of us wish we had, but don't.

He loves making money, but I think he genuinely likes helping people as well.

Good luck to him, as he also does his bit for charity fund-raising using his 'Magnetic power'.

Pete

[DonDavis]

What a charge it must be to sit in your beach side condo, your bare feet propped up on the table, effortlessly creating a buzz like this while playing your slide ghi-tar.

[Floyd Fisher]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

The problem is that people don't "get it" - the lesson is
in the effectiveness of the principle; not in copying the
exact two words that Frank used in his open rate test.

John

No kidding.

I think I'm going to start reading the National Enquirer...so I can get more ideas.

[tommygadget]

BAD NEWS...

Most people who read Frank Kern's ideas are complete idiots, but you can profit from that because you have two brain cells to rub together...

TomG.

[fred67]

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

I thought long and hard, consulted the little minions running around in my head, and settled on...


"horrible news".

I saw "Willie Crawford" sent out ...

"good news".


I thinking of trying...

"Fox news" next.

As long as you don't send out "CNN news" I opened one of those E-mails by mistake.

You get a warning pop-up that just goes round in circles until you unplug your computer.
It FREEZES all other actions.

Pete.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Here's a news email title (surfing on the rubberneck idea) that might get a lot of people opening it.

Tax debt news...

Michael

[James Schramko]

I got a couple of Bad News emails and they were lame. I unsubscribed.

They rank right up there with "you just made a commission" etc...

Are people wondering the about the measurement of open rates versus conversions?

I have been doing a lot of PPC lately and I can assure you after millions of impressions and clicks of testing the highest CTR does not usually turn out to be the highest conversion.

Email could be similar?

So what I am saying is that a high open rate on its own does not really prove everything. Surely sales conversions (or goal conversions) are more important than open rates?

You can get high open rates with sensational headlines but until you split test with some statistical rlevance it is just theory.

I would like to know if Frank sends out test emails to smaller groups before the big mail out?

Does he split test and measure conversions?

Does anyone have conversion results?

(I do get the point that higher open rates could expose more of your clients to the message - but it must be congruent).

[schabotte]

I've gotten around 10 different emails on Kern's free video. I'm guessing its time to clean up my email lists subscriptions again.

I thought it was about the Rubber Neck effect.

Bad news... That's just the headline Frank chose to use.

Here are a few other Rubber Necking Headlines:

go to hell...

a hooker gave me VD...

toilet paper... anyone

I bet those emails would get opened. And that was the point.

Wasn't it?

[John Taylor]

Originally Posted by marcanthony

I bet those emails would get opened. And that was the point.

Wasn't it?

Yep, maybe those emails would get opened.

BUT, unless the content of the email was closely
matched with the headline and the reader was able
to connect with the message, it's unlikely that they
would read the whole message; let alone click a link.

If you simply copy Frank's headline "Bad News" and
then fail to deliver a bad news related message; the
technique is lost.

John

[Andrew Wilson]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Andrew,We must be on very different lists. I don't think I've gotten a single email from anyone but very experienced people about this.

Off hand, I believe I've gotten emails from Harlan Kilstein, Rich Schefren, John Carlton, Jason Moffatt, and Bob Serling on it, aside from Frank. I don't really consider any of those folks "newbies" in any meaningful sense of the word.


Paul

Paul, I'd suggest that ANYONE who sent out an email using the subject line 'bad news' demonstrated their lack of experience. Two reasons:
1. They showed that they did not know about the technique or how to use it.
2. They had not accounted for the other folks who would be using the same subject line.
Experience is not just about time served but what has been learned whilst the time was being served.
I do not know what subject lines were used by the names you suggested (or their staff) and so do not comment upon their experience directly, but as we know from this thread, many list marketers have been busily demonstrating significant gaps in their knowledge.

[fred67]

almost everyone on this forum is probably 'linked' in some way through the various Newsletter sign-ups back to Frank Kern because he has the respect of MOST of the main players in internet marketing. These people don't really need Franks product, so he's 'given' it to them for review. (Smart if not obligatory move).

These main players have sub-lists of people like myself who sort of 'stalk' on the fringes with an eye to moving 'in' at some point. Then there are the hundreds of thousands of 'normal' folk out there who don't have a CLUE about this world of internet marketing, but sign up to one of 'our' newsletters through some 'long-tail' search they did about something completely different.

A small percentage will be 'awestruck' by the concept as most of us were at our first exposure to IM.

It's THESE people who would just LOVE to be opening an E-mail that gave them 'The Golden Key' to future on-line success.

It's also 'these' people who will rise to success more quickly if they take the bait because they are untainted by a lot of the 'nonsense' that is also proffered to them once they enter the arena.

But if they get the 'right' coaching first, they'll recognise the junk and just blank it out without being held back by it all.

OK. I think that's it for now.

Pete.

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Yep, maybe those emails would get opened.

BUT, unless the content of the email was closely
matched with the headline and the reader was able
to connect with the message, it's unlikely that they
would read the whole message; let alone click a link.

If you simply copy Frank's headline "Bad News" and
then fail to deliver a bad news related message; the
technique is lost.

John

You are absolutely right and I couldn't agree with you more.

The only point that I was making was that the "Rubber Neck Effect" video was about getting more of your emails opened. And his point was that if you can double your opens then you will double your sales if everything remains the same.

Frank, chose "bad news" in the subject line to make his point. He also gave a short and descriptive story to explain it.

So, I'm not suggesting, at all, that it's a good idea to have a subject line that reads, "flying monkey alert" but the actual content is about surfing in Maui.

And again, you are correct. If the subject doesn't relate to the message-the techniques is lost.

[Scott Ames]

The funny thing to me is that I keep getting them.. and they use the exact format

bad news ...

They even use three dots for the elipse and all lowercase, every one of them.

It would be cool if Frank put out a spoof video showing how this new subject line worked like magic ... "screw you..." actually it might get a high open rate.

[Angela V. Edwards]

Originally Posted by Peter Bestel

He doesn't wear any !! (And yet he talks to us about finesse!! Sheesh!)

Exactly. How are you going to "Hang Ten" with shoes on?