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Can Market Samurai be trusted?

by webatomic
16 replies
I love Market Samurai and use it all the time, but lately I've uncovered what appear to be "gold nugget" keywords only to find that that info is not backed up by Google Adwords and Wordtracker. For example, the other day I came upon a 2-word keyword in MS with the following daily searches:

Broad Match - 9896
Phrase -1989
Exact - 730

Free Wordtracker Tool gives it 13 searches, which I believe is based on an exact match and daily volume, although the WT page says:

'Searches' is the number of times that the keyword has been searched for in our partner search engines in the US over the last 365 days.
(So that is either incorrect or misleading. Any way you get my point.)

Other keywords have numbers that are way off from even the Google Adwords Keyword tool, which is where MS supposedly gets their data. For example I found a 3 word keyword that showed 1989 daily broad searches and 1989 daily phrase searches in MS. (PBR is 100%) Free Word Tracker shows 8 searches and Google Adwords Keyword tool shows:

Broad - 42
Phrase - 16
Exact - 5

(I'm dividing the monthly numbers by 30.4 as suggested by Noble Samurai here.


So you can see my dilemma. I made sure that I am using the same country/language in MS as Google Adwords Keyword Tool. I know Noble Samurai has addressed this and says that results will differ because Google uses different data centers and I know that Wordtracker gets its data elsewhere altogether, but these numbers are vastly different.

I just don't know which numbers to trust anymore. I know this subject has come up many times before on this forum and elsewhere, but I'm still not sure who to trust when trying to locate keywords worth pursuing.....help?
#market #samurai #trusted
  • Profile picture of the author CanuckWarrior
    The short answer is yes, you can trust Market Samurai BUT realize the limitations of what it's telling you.

    WordTracker data is excellent for tracking searches over the short term, say the last 90 days. It gets data from a lot of search engines (but not Google).

    Whereas something like Keyword Discovery is better for looking at long term trends in search patterns and I think comes from a wide variety of engines other than Google.

    Google's data is obviously just Google and depending on whether you're looking at Local (targeted region for last 30 days) or Global (average global searches over last 12 months).

    Just take your "gold nugget" keywords and check the CPC and the advertiser competition for them in Google.

    For example, if you Google your term with (and without quotes) and find very few advertisers, you're either one of the first people on the planet who have come across this niche (rather unlikely) or there's not much money to made in the market (e.g. Silver BMW for the homeless).

    On the other hand if you find a decent number of advertisers and a healthy CPC (cost per click) I'd say you've found a good keyword even if WordTracker gives you 0 searches.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Heck, even Google keyword tool shows up different data from test to test.

    MS is a great tool, love it, but you need to have other forms of test to backup that data.
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  • Profile picture of the author webatomic
    I understand and don't mind slight differences in the numbers, but when the difference goes from 300,000 monthly searches to 300 monthly searches between WT and MS or 60K monthly searches to 1K monthly searches between MS and Google Adwords Keyword tool, then I find myself back at square one and not sure whom to trust. And again, I'm comparing broad to broad, monthly to monthly and making sure the countries and languages are the same etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author CanuckWarrior
      Originally Posted by webatomic View Post

      I understand and don't mind slight differences in the numbers, but when the difference goes from 300,000 monthly searches to 300 monthly searches between WT and MS or 60K monthly searches to 1K monthly searches between MS and Google Adwords Keyword tool, then I find myself back at square one and not sure whom to trust. And again, I'm comparing broad to broad, monthly to monthly and making sure the countries and languages are the same etc.
      WT results are daily. Did you remember to multiply by 30?

      EDIT: Forgot to mention that the magnitudes are not equivalent. Meaning, if you're using say 3,000 to 4,000 monthly broad match searches in Google, you will probably see about 8 to 10 daily searches on the WT free tool. This is not an exact formula, just my personal observation from my final spreadsheets.
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      • Profile picture of the author webatomic
        Now I'm getting different numbers from the adwords tool that are lining up with my MS numbers. Let me ask you about this keyword phrase:

        3 word KW - daily search totals:

        Broad - 1989
        Phrase - 1989 (PBR=100%)
        Exact - 19
        SEOC - 15,900
        SEOTC - 90,900

        I know the SEOTC looks high, but when I look at the competition matrix, the Top 10 seem very beatable. Lots of new and low PR domains. I can even get the 3 word kw as a hyphenated exact match domain: fuzzy-blue-widgets.com.

        It's a very monetizable niche and I could probably throw up a bunch of related keywords, product reviews etc. and try and do an authority site on it.

        Do those numbers look as good to you as they do to me or am I missing something? Again, if you go by Wordtracker it shows 8 daily searches. Thoughts?
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        • Profile picture of the author CanuckWarrior
          Originally Posted by webatomic View Post

          Now I'm getting different numbers from the adwords tool that are lining up with my MS numbers. Let me ask you about this keyword phrase:

          3 word KW - daily search totals:

          Broad - 1989
          Phrase - 1989 (PBR=100%)
          Exact - 19
          SEOC - 15,900
          SEOTC - 90,900

          I know the SEOTC looks high, but when I look at the competition matrix, the Top 10 seem very beatable. Lots of new and low PR domains. I can even get the 3 word kw as a hyphenated exact match domain: fuzzy-blue-widgets.com.

          It's a very monetizable niche and I could probably throw up a bunch of related keywords, product reviews etc. and try and do an authority site on it.

          Do those numbers look as good to you as they do to me or am I missing something? Again, if you go by Wordtracker it shows 8 daily searches. Thoughts?
          Well, the first thing I notice is the HUGE disparity between phrase and exact match (100 fold).

          That's not necessarily a bad thing if the disparity is in context to how people actually use the search term in every day language, but it might be an indication that your keyword is jumbled compared to what people are actually searching for (or how they normally speak/write). Which can be a bad thing.

          Are there a lot of competing ads and a decent cost per click for the keyword? If so, good sign. If not, bad sign.

          The competition matrix does sound good if it's showing lots of green and you can use the keyword in a proper English sentence.

          Also, check to see if the other top level exact match domains are parked by domain flippers (a good sign) or if they actually contain optimized competing content (a possible concern) as a final check.

          e.g. fuzzybluewidgets.com, fuzzybluewidgets.net, fuzzybluewidgets.org

          There's no magic formula. It's going to boil down to a judgment call on your part.
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          • Profile picture of the author webatomic
            Originally Posted by CanuckWarrior View Post


            Are there a lot of competing ads and a decent cost per click for the keyword? If so, good sign. If not, bad sign.

            The competition matrix does sound good if it's showing lots of green and you can use the keyword in a proper English sentence.

            Also, check to see if the other top level exact match domains are parked by domain flippers (a good sign) or if they actually contain optimized competing content (a possible concern) as a final check.

            e.g. fuzzybluewidgets.com, fuzzybluewidgets.net, fuzzybluewidgets.org

            There's no magic formula. It's going to boil down to a judgment call on your part.
            Here are the adwords numbers:
            AWT - 72
            AWCPC .88
            AWCTR - 3.62%
            AWV - 63.36
            SEOV 735.13

            Those don't look that great to me, but I'm not sure. The other TLDs are either parked or undeveloped blogs. I'm just not sure I can even trust those broad/phrase match search totals from Google.
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            • Profile picture of the author CanuckWarrior
              Originally Posted by webatomic View Post

              Here are the adwords numbers:
              AWT - 72
              AWCPC .88
              AWCTR - 3.62%
              AWV - 63.36
              SEOV 735.13

              Those don't look that great to me, but I'm not sure. The other TLDs are either parked or undeveloped blogs. I'm just not sure I can even trust those broad/phrase match search totals from Google.
              Well at $0.88 CPC you're sure not going to retire on a one page Adsense site built on that keyword.

              But all else considered, it still may generate a worthwhile stream of income. You just need to dig a little more to make sure.

              Try putting the keyword into the Google Wonderwheel and see what kind of spokes show up. Then check the CPC, search volume and competition for those words and keep moving out to see how easy it would be to build an authority site.

              If it's still a go, decide on the most profitable way to monetize the site and whether you want a long term asset or something to flip to generate cash flow, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author pavionjsl
    NO..........they are part of the group that has 3 of the 4 crystal skulls, and also started the new world order. The head programmer lives right outside Roswell N.M.
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  • Profile picture of the author khay
    As far as any keyword tool can be trusted! They each have their own metric. Kind of like stats packages. Nothing will be perfect but in and of itself, the results are good enough to work from.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
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    • Profile picture of the author webatomic
      Originally Posted by cypherslock View Post

      MS does daily stats. Multiply what you find by 30.4 (in the help desk docs at MS) and you'll see that its much better.
      I am well aware of that and did just that as I mentioned in my posts. If you look at the numbers and read my posts, you will see that it's not much better at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Curious, if you're not sure, just use Google's keyword tool. But then that is where market samurai get's its data. Not quite sure what you're looking for? Have you tried Micro Niche Finder or perhaps Brad's Keyword Elite?
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  • Profile picture of the author -Jericho-
    I've been getting some oddball info from market samurai lately. Mine seems to be glitching. I've been wondering if there's an issue with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarkWrites
    Market Samurai is a great tool, but it isn't the only tool. Some differences in numbers is normal, but you are experiencing some big swings. Try a day or two from now and see if the numbers are the same of if there is a "correction".
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  • Profile picture of the author tyroneshum
    I'm considering points about this issue in this thread as well:

    AdWords vs. Market Samurai - Thirty Day Challenge Forums
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    • Profile picture of the author pappyy3
      I've found keyword tools are an invaluable guide to give you some insights into demands for certain keywords.

      The two products I use are Market Samurai and MNF - absolutely awesome, but do I put 100% faith in them - well no.

      Too many people place 100% faith in the tools. Just letting you know that not all tools are 100% accurate.

      I've found some golden nugget (profitable) keywords that have resulted in huge traffic to some of my sites. Yet when analyzed in the keyword tools, they either didn't return any results or showed very few searches.... go figure ????

      My advice, you won't know until you take some action and test ....If they don't bring any result, then change them
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