I have won a chargeback dispute.

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timpears

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

There's a special place in hell reserved for the feckless
numbskulls and misanthropes who buy things, then decide
it's easier to just call their credit card company and do a
chargeback than to simply request a refund.

How do you know that a refund was never requested? I didn't notice that the OP said anything about that. It looks to me like you are jumping to conclusions. You know that when you assume, you make an ass our or u and me.

(ass-u-me) just in case you missed it.

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Tim Pears

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by timpears

How do you know that a refund was never requested? I didn't notice that the OP said anything about that.

Somehow you've made that logical jump all on your own. I never implied that I was talking exclusively about the OP's chargeback.

It looks to me like you are jumping to conclusions. You know that when you assume, you make an ass our or u and me.

(ass-u-me) just in case you missed it.

Physician heal thyself.

: )

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timpears

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

Somehow you've made that logical jump all on your own. I never implied that I was talking exclusively about the OP's chargeback.

Phsycian heal thyself.

: )

Then please point out to us where your basis was that people are charging back without first asking for a refund. If you can poing that out to me, I will agree with you. I may not see all that well, but I didn't see any reference to it.

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Tim Pears

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by timpears

Then please point out to us where your basis was that people are charging back without first asking for a refund. If you can poing that out to me, I will agree with you. I may not see all that well, but I didn't see any reference to it.

Tim,

Let's try and establish a baseline of understanding here since you seem to be having trouble following the conversation.

Do you agree that the majority of chargebacks against merchants are justified and warranted?

Brian

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l23bc

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

While I'll gladly stand and clap for pushing back
against fraudulent chargebacks...

...the time/productivity loss for dealing with the
BS makes it sort of a hollow victory, doesn't it?

And I say this in commiseration, not to pee in
your cornflakes.

There's a special place in hell reserved for the feckless
numbskulls and misanthropes who buy things, then decide
it's easier to just call their credit card company and do a
chargeback than to simply request a refund.

Tell me about it in my cpa movie site i used to have the pay by paypal 3.00 dollars to access the site and watch the contents.Yet had some customer around 3 weeks ago tried to chargeback my account on paypal for $3.00 no email or contact had to make 5 telephone calls to paypal to show that the items in question were non phyicial products and tangable items online. In the ending i won also like the original poster sent to paypal the time he access the site from awstats and original download details from server.

If he just dropped me a line i would of just refunded them. but instead of a dispute in paypal they went back to the bank or card issuer over 3 whole dollars!!

:confused: one born every minuite

To the original poster,Congrates on your victory

andrew

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affilorama-portal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

There's a special place in hell reserved for the feckless numbskulls and misanthropes who buy things, then decide it's easier to just call their credit card company and do a chargeback than to simply request a refund.

One consoling factor (though not much of a consolation): charge backs affect their credit rating, so the more charge backs they put in, the lower their credit score gets.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by affilorama-portal

One consoling factor (though not much of a consolation): charge backs affect their credit rating, so the more charge backs they put in, the lower their credit score gets.

Funny, I don't see a section on the credit report for chargebacks. I COULD see a particular credit card company taking that into account but OTHERS? I doubt it.

Steve

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azombay

14 years ago

Originally Posted by affilorama-portal

One consoling factor (though not much of a consolation): charge backs affect their credit rating, so the more charge backs they put in, the lower their credit score gets.

Please provide some proof of this? As an expert in credit repair I've never seen chargebacks even mentioned on one's credit report.

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GuerrillaIM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by affilorama-portal

One consoling factor (though not much of a consolation): charge backs affect their credit rating, so the more charge backs they put in, the lower their credit score gets.

I am pretty familiar with credit reports and I question this statement as dubious. I do not think chargebacks affect personal credit.

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cashcow

14 years ago

That's good to hear - congrats!

I actually just lost 2 of them even though I provided paypal with proof that the people downloaded the products.

Lee

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poker princess

14 years ago

Wow.. thatz a wonderful news. Moreover coming from paypal is really a big achievement

Congratulations, my friend. Everything seem to have gone your way.

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Caleb Spilchen

14 years ago

Nice to hear. Finally people aren't getting away with this stuff

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by opiel

It appears that I have won a chargeback dispute.

It took almost 3 months but I just received an email message from PayPal that the buyer's credit card issuer decided in my favor. I will receive reimbursement for $49.99 within 7 days.

Congrats.

Finally proof of what I've been saying is possible for years.

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

...the time/productivity loss for dealing with the
BS makes it sort of a hollow victory, doesn't it?

Victory is victory; however long it may take. If every long fought victory was viewed as hollow, how many battles resulting in victory would not have been fought to get us where we are today?

PLP,
tecHead

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by tecHead

Victory is victory; however long it may take. If every long fought victory was viewed as hollow, how many battles resulting in victory would not have been fought to get us where we are today?

A wee bit overdramatic for a $50 chargeback, dude.

My point was simple enough...

If you spend a half hour disputing a chargeback for $50, gathering the supporting docs and filing your response - you've just lost whatever profit margin you had on the sale.

HOLLOW VICTORY.

But hey, there's always a windmill that needs tilting.

Feel free to ignore the rest of my post where I made clear that I'm on the OP's side of the issue.

Brian

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Brian McLeod

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

A wee bit overdramatic for a $50 chargeback, dude.

My point was simple enough...

If you spend a half hour disputing a chargeback for $50, gathering the supporting docs and filing your response - you've just lost whatever profit margin you had on the sale.

HOLLOW VICTORY.

But hey, there's always a windmill that needs tilting.

Feel free to ignore the rest of my post where I made clear that I'm on the OP's side of the issue.

Brian

Over dramatic? I don't think so because its been the accumulation of small victories like this over the past decade+ that have paved the way for such things as specialized merchant accounts and PayPal even considering digital sales as legitimate.

Back in 2001, if someone did a charge-back on you... you could pretty much just kiss the money good-bye because card not present transactions were considered the antithesis of commerce. That's why people still attempt it, today.

If we don't have more people/Merchants stand their ground and fight back, (for even $5), we'll never get the behemoths like PayPal to legitimize our business model(s) in their eyes.

But hey... to each their own.

PLP,
tecHead

P.S.: No, I didn't ignore the remainder of your OP. I just addressed the part of that post that made the most negative impact.

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by tecHead

Over dramatic? I don't think so because its been the accumulation of small victories like this over the past decade+ that have paved the way for such things as specialized merchant accounts and PayPal even considering digital sales as legitimate.

See, here's the thing... I don't disagree with you about the importance of pushing back against fraudulent chargebacks.

But $50 in (sale) > $50 out (chargeback) > $50 out (dispute) > $50 in (reclaimed sale) is still a net sum of ZERO.

I never said it wasn't a noble pursuit - what I said was that it feels like a hollow victory, even when you win a chargeback dispute.

Back in 2001, if someone did a charge-back on you... you could pretty much just kiss the money good-bye because card not present transactions were considered the antithesis of commerce. That's why people still attempt it, today.

True, and in 2001 fraudulent chargebacks on CC transactions were a fraction of the problem that they are today.

If we don't have more people/Merchants stand their ground and fight back, (for even $5), we'll never get the behemoths like PayPal to legitimize our business model(s) in their eyes.

This is a strawman. I never said people shouldn't vigorously defend chargebacks whenever it makes sense for them to do so.

I said it's a hollow victory when we win because we incur the cost of the dispute. You've erected an argument around a difference of opinion that doesn't exist.

We both agree that chargebacks are a problem.

We both agree that folks have every right to vigorously defend themselves against fraudulent chargebacks and that it's a noble pursuit.

So, surely we can agree that SUBJECTIVELY, as gratifying as it is to win a chargeback dispute, at the end of the day we still got pinched, right?

Mine was merely an empathetic post based on the pragmatic, material issues of the particular chargeback in the OP.

Best,

Brian

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

See, here's the thing... I don't disagree with you about the importance of pushing back against fraudulent chargebacks.

But $50 in (sale) > $50 out (chargeback) > $50 out (dispute) > $50 in (reclaimed sale) is still a net sum of ZERO.

I never said it wasn't a noble pursuit - what I said was that it feels like a hollow victory, even when you win a chargeback dispute.

True, and in 2001 fraudulent chargebacks on CC transactions were a fraction of the problem that they are today.

This is a strawman. I never said people shouldn't vigorously defend chargebacks whenever it makes sense for them to do so.

I said it's a hollow victory when we win because we incur the cost of the dispute. You've erected an argument around a difference of opinion that doesn't exist.

We both agree that chargebacks are a problem.

We both agree that folks have every right to vigorously defend themselves against fraudulent chargebacks and that it's a noble pursuit.

So, surely we can agree that SUBJECTIVELY, as gratifying as it is to win a chargeback dispute, at the end of the day we still got pinched, right?

Mine was merely an empathetic post based on the pragmatic, material issues of the particular chargeback in the OP.

Best,

Brian

cool... cool... we're good

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Mike Anthony

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

A wee bit overdramatic for a $50 chargeback, dude.

My point was simple enough...

If you spend a half hour disputing a chargeback for $50, gathering the supporting docs and filing your response - you've just lost whatever profit margin you had on the sale.

HOLLOW VICTORY

Well in the time it took to make multiple posts arguing your point you could have invested it in something that would make you an additional fifty dollars. So whats empty? The OP deriving satifaction from giving pause to a potential fraudster that will think about trying to rip somebody else off in the future or your trying to win a point that gets you or anyone else the sum total of nada?

The echo of that sounds really hollow. I don't know that you can put a dollar figure to a whole lot of things that most certainly are not hollow and frankly I can see tactical financial advantages beyond the individual transaction. So whatever the merits or your other points its not hollow.

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Well in the time it took to make multiple posts arguing your point you could have invested it in something that would make you an additional fifty dollars. So whats empty? The OP deriving satifaction from giving pause to a potential fraudster that will think about trying to rip somebody else off in the future or your trying to win a point that gets you or anyone else the sum total of nada?

Man, you really have a chip on your shoulder, don't you?

Re-read my original post.

Mine was a post IN SUPPORT of the OP.

Essentially, "I'm with ya.. even when we win, it still screws us, huh?"

Somehow that makes you angry... OK... good luck with that.

Brian

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abednego

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

Man, you really have a chip on your shoulder, don't you?

Re-read my original post.

Mine was a post IN SUPPORT of the OP.

Essentially, "I'm with ya.. even when we win, it still screws us, huh?"

Somehow that makes you angry... OK... good luck with that.

Brian

This is the internet. Everyone gets angry at everything. Its kinda amusing... and sometimes difficult to resist the urge to troll

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Mike Anthony 14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

Man, you really have a chip on your shoulder, don't you?

Re-read my original post.

Mine was a post IN SUPPORT of the OP.

Nah Brian. Read it, understood it and had no chip. Like I said theres merits to your points but the HOLLOW VICTORY choice of words is off. Thats what I was trying to point out to you and why people are responding negatively to it. Your negative choice of words. OP has already stated that he spent 30 minutes or less on the procedure and he will make at least one person think again about trying to rip a seller so its not empty or hollow. No more hollow than our post here where we aren't getting any financial reward. He got the equivalent of a hundred dollars an hour for following it up. Not Kern money but not too shabby.

Who said you weren't on the OP's side? Maybe you should read my post. I understood yours.
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Kim Standerline

14 years ago

I'd give it up as a bad job Brian.

I'd think many of us got what you meant and for what it's worth, I think you were right

Kim

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

Man, you really have a chip on your shoulder, don't you?

Re-read my original post.

Mine was a post IN SUPPORT of the OP.

Essentially, "I'm with ya.. even when we win, it still screws us, huh?"

Somehow that makes you angry... OK... good luck with that.

Brian

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Robert Puddy

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

A wee bit overdramatic for a $50 chargeback, dude.

My point was simple enough...

If you spend a half hour disputing a chargeback for $50, gathering the supporting docs and filing your response - you've just lost whatever profit margin you had on the sale.

HOLLOW VICTORY.

But hey, there's always a windmill that needs tilting.

Feel free to ignore the rest of my post where I made clear that I'm on the OP's side of the issue.

Brian

Not fighting them costs you far more money than the sale itself

If you have to many paypal disputes then your paypal fees go up. if your reciepts through paypal are low then your right, but for someone like me who generates larger amounts a month through paypal it can mean they drop me down a scale and i end up paying higher fees on all transactions.

worth reading the smaill print in paypals TOS

Maintaining your merchant rate
After qualifying for Merchant rate pricing, all members are expected to:

•Keep their PayPal account in good standing. Members may be downgraded to the Standard rate if a payment volume is not maintained in the previous calendar month, or if they have unresolved chargebacks.

Oh and i never lose a paypal dispute (charge backs are different but get a 50 /50 success rate with them) because i always record the IP of the person downloading the purchase, the number of times they logged in and the last login date.

Support staf have a simple rule to follow...

If the customer asks for a refund through proper channels then give them one no questions...If they start a paypal dispute then fight everyone

Robert

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BrianMcLeod 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

Not fighting them costs you far more money than the sale itself

Robert

Et tu, Brute? LOL

No disagreement.

Still feels like getting screwed when we win.

Brian
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Black Hat Cat

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

A wee bit overdramatic for a $50 chargeback, dude.

My point was simple enough...

If you spend a half hour disputing a chargeback for $50, gathering the supporting docs and filing your response - you've just lost whatever profit margin you had on the sale.

Brian

So take a 30 minute lunch one day instead of an hour, and you've lost nothing.

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Chris Worner

14 years ago

You won the battle but not the war. Was the amount of time you spent in those three months fighting the charge worth the $49.99 or is your time worth more than that?

Still, a it does show that PayPal are in fact human(sometimes) and not the money hungry monsters that they are always made out to be.

Chris

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opiel

14 years ago

Originally Posted by skyfox7

You won the battle but not the war. Was the amount of time you spent in those three months fighting the charge worth the $49.99 or is your time worth more than that?

Still, a it does show that PayPal are in fact human(sometimes) and not the money hungry monsters that they are always made out to be.

Chris

Actually, my case was rather easy. I spent a total of about 30 minutes... that includes faxing a few pages to PayPal.

From that point on... PayPal took over.

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Rob Howard

14 years ago

I have won a few chargeback disputes before.

It can happen when you have solid proof on your side. Namely, IP addresses of the download traced back to a location close to their shipping address.

I try to track all downloads by IP and I always collect shipping address. Then if I get a charge back, I trace the IP and if it's close to the persons address, I submit the info to paypal and they tend to fight it for me and win.

Rob

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Shannon Herod

14 years ago

Fortunately, I have not had to deal with too many chargebacks in my career, knock on wood.

But, chargebacks are for fraudulent charges. So, to win a chargeback you simply need to prove that the charge was authorize. If you are running a legitimate business that is not hard to do.

There are many things you can do that will act as an electronic signature. These things coupled with IP tracking makes it very easy to win a chargeback.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Hooray .... good for you. And don't believe it wasn't worth it. It's not like you spent 3 months of your time full time doing it. Answer a few questions and wait for a decision. That's about it.

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thatgirlJ

14 years ago

That's great to hear!

I'm currently fighting one -- worth $10

It did take a bit of time to do screen captures of their IP and download, etc. I would have happily refunded this person's money (and it had a 110% money-back guarantee, so they were pretty idiotic in pulling this stunt instead).

I figure if this is a first-timer, it will (hopefully?) scare them off from doing it in the future. I also don't want to just let it look like I am claiming I'm guilty (of fraudulently charging them the $10) because I want to keep my PayPal account healthy and active.

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Active_One_2006

14 years ago

Congratulations, miracles do happen!

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Victoria B

Chargeback doesn't affect anyone's credit rating, there is no proof for such affirmation, but it's not a bad idea to implement that.

Cheers!

It is a VERY bad idea to implement it! I once had to deal with a company that kept charging me for what I didn't order. I probably had to do about 8 chargebacks before they got the message. I ALMOST cancelled my credit card! BTW cancelling your credit card CAN hurt your fico!

Steve

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roger123

14 years ago

Congrats! I have a PayPal chargeback dispute going on .. it was a website sale. Though I have transferred the domain and given control of the website, PayPal says I'll have to wait for 75 days. It is ridiculous. I have stopped accepting payments by PayPal now.

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Crew Chief

14 years ago

Originally Posted by affilorama-portal

One consoling factor (though not much of a consolation): charge backs affect their credit rating, so the more charge backs they put in, the lower their credit score gets.

So then is it true that they are now dinging your credit score for refunds, exchanges and price adjustments?

Originally Posted by Jenn Dize

That's great to hear!

I'm currently fighting one -- worth $10

It did take a bit of time to do screen captures of their IP and download, etc. I would have happily refunded this person's money (and it had a 110% money-back guarantee, so they were pretty idiotic in pulling this stunt instead).

I figure if this is a first-timer, it will (hopefully?) scare them off from doing it in the future. I also don't want to just let it look like I am claiming I'm guilty (of fraudulently charging them the $10) because I want to keep my PayPal account healthy and active.

Jenn, unfortunately, their is a dark side to IM and the people/jerks who pull these damnable tactics are not going to stop; ever! Just two months ago, I saw a thread on a BeeLackHat forum with instructions on how to hack a software app that a friend of mine's markets. Although the app was hack proof those arse wholes wouldn't stop trying.

I joined in on the thread and suggested that they buy the software as opposed to stealing it and was IMMEDIATELY rebuked and rebuffed by the OP and those participating in the thread.

Additionally, they had threads started with specifics on how to crack various software apps and how to get free products and downloads using refunds and charge backs. So as far as scaring them off; that's not going to happen. These low life miscreants could care less about being outed or put on blast by PayPal or the merchant.

Originally Posted by tecHead

Over dramatic? I don't think so because its been the accumulation of small victories like this over the past decade+ that have paved the way for such things as specialized merchant accounts and PayPal even considering digital sales as legitimate.

Back in 2001, if someone did a charge-back on you... you could pretty much just kiss the money good-bye because card not present transactions were considered the antithesis of commerce. That's why people still attempt it, today.

If we don't have more people/Merchants stand their ground and fight back, (for even $5), we'll never get the behemoths like PayPal to legitimize our business model(s) in their eyes.

But hey... to each their own.

tecHead, I could not have said it better! PayPal's current model of addressing digital downloads was drafted by non Internet Marketers. And, it won't change until merchants start raising their voices. Just letting these instances go - dramatically skews the numbers these non Internet Marketers at PayPal crunch to determine if they need to adjust their policies.

Giles, the Crew Chief

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by Crew Chief

...

Jenn, unfortunately, their is a dark side to IM and the people/jerks who pull these damnable tactics are not going to stop; ever! Just two months ago, I saw a thread on a BeeLackHat forum with instructions on how to hack a software app that a friend of mine's markets. Although the app was hack proof those arse wholes wouldn't stop trying.

I joined in on the thread and suggested that they buy the software as opposed to stealing it and was IMMEDIATELY rebuked and rebuffed by the OP and those participating in the thread.

Additionally, they had threads started with specifics on how to crack various software apps and how to get free products and downloads using refunds and charge backs. So as far as scaring them off; that's not going to happen. These low life miscreants could care less about being outed or put on blast by PayPal or the merchant.

Yeah, big problem. The ugly underbelly of the Internet tends to work just as hard to thieve as the hardest legit businessperson does to make a profit.

Originally Posted by Crew Chief

tecHead, I could not have said it better! PayPal's current model of addressing digital downloads was drafted by non Internet Marketers. And, it won't change until merchants start raising their voices. Just letting these instances go - dramatically skews the numbers these non Internet Marketers at PayPal crunch to determine if they need to adjust their policies.

Giles, the Crew Chief

Of course, agreed. The more the digital goods transaction makes traction from big boys like Amazon, iTunes and the like... the more PayPal will have to pay attention to the legitimacy of that business model.

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ConnorMcCreesh

14 years ago

Well done with paypal, i have had a similar issue with theft, though all i did was go to the bank and got it all back there and then

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carlo_sim

14 years ago

Hi,

Won a chargeback dispute back then too! =) Contrary to popular belief, paypal was very accomodating and was easy to talk too. I think you just need to talk to them nicely in order for them to resolve your issues right away. =)

Gian Sim

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abednego

14 years ago

Originally Posted by opiel

It appears that I have won a chargeback dispute.

It took almost 3 months but I just received an email message from PayPal that the buyer's credit card issuer decided in my favor. I will receive reimbursement for $49.99 within 7 days.

I'm very familiar with the chargeback process from the issuer. Was it a Visa or MC chargeback?

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mcmahanusa

14 years ago

When there is a wrong to be addressed, it is the duty of each of us to fight it. "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing" (badly paraphrased, but you get the idea). Anyway, in my opinion, each victory by an online merchant makes it that much easier for others to prevail in their own contests on down the line.
As an aside - think it's bad for online merchants? People go to restaurants all the time, treat their pals, charge it, and then dispute the charge. Many a restaurant owner, already struggling to survive, has had to eat (no pun intended) the bill.

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kbmciver

14 years ago

Congratulations for winning your dispute. From my experience PayPal tends to wait you out to see if you give up over time.

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thatgirlJ

14 years ago

Ugh, not that it matters and it's a bit off-topic to the OP, but it appears I've lost mine.

Anyway, I sent a nice, but strong, e-mail to PayPal expressing my disappointment and the need for them to be more supportive of sellers with digital products when they are able to provide purchase and download IP that match the buyer's location.

It's my hope that the more sellers make their position known, the faster PayPal will get with the times

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jenn Dize

Ugh, not that it matters and it's a bit off-topic to the OP, but it appears I've lost mine.

Anyway, I sent a nice, but strong, e-mail to PayPal expressing my disappointment and the need for them to be more supportive of sellers with digital products when they are able to provide purchase and download IP that match the buyer's location.

It's my hope that the more sellers make their position known, the faster PayPal will get with the times

Don't hold your breath. Just Google Paypal scam or go to paypalsucks.com to see just how many people have expressed their dissatisfaction with Paypal

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tecHead 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Don't hold your breath. Just Google Paypal scam or go to paypalsucks.com to see just how many people have expressed their dissatisfaction with Paypal

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

...PayPal operates in 190 markets, and it manages over 184 million accounts, more than 73 million of them active...

Although subject to accuracy debates; bounce those numbers against how many actual complaints there are and the nay-sayers seem pretty infantesimal

source: PayPal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

To the OP, good for you! Chalk one up for the merchant.

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

While I'll gladly stand and clap for pushing back
against fraudulent chargebacks...

...the time/productivity loss for dealing with the
BS makes it sort of a hollow victory, doesn't it?

And I say this in commiseration, not to pee in
your cornflakes.

There's a special place in hell reserved for the feckless
numbskulls and misanthropes who buy things, then decide
it's easier to just call their credit card company and do a
chargeback than to simply request a refund.

As a bit of a wordsmith, I appreciate your use of the words "feckless" and "misanthropes" in your post.

As an aside, I understood what you meant with the "hollow victory" verbiage. Some people seem not to understand the qualifier that preceded it; the sort of changes the meaning in a way that some seem to have overlooked. Perhaps you need to "dumb down" your posts.

Originally Posted by seasoned

It is a VERY bad idea to implement it! I once had to deal with a company that kept charging me for what I didn't order. I probably had to do about 8 chargebacks before they got the message. I ALMOST cancelled my credit card! BTW cancelling your credit card CAN hurt your fico!

Steve

Steve, I agree with you. I once had a host that kept charging my card month after month even I was no longer hosting with them and had notified them by email and phone. They kept falling back on the position that I hadn't properly notified them because I didn't use their cancellation form on their site, but it wasn't for lack of trying, it simply didn't work. Every time I submitted via the form it timed out.

I finally canceled my credit card on the recommendation of my bank instead of disputing and winning chargebacks month after month. They were obviously just being stubborn and unreasonable, but I'm pretty sure I cost them far more than in lost sales than they would have gained in keeping me strung out for a few months.

Originally Posted by Jenn Dize

Anyway, I sent a nice, but strong, e-mail to PayPal expressing my disappointment and the need for them to be more supportive of sellers with digital products when they are able to provide purchase and download IP that match the buyer's location.

One complaint does nothing, but an accumulation of complaints from multitudes of vendors will get their attention sooner or later . . . thanks for doing your part.

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Mike Anthony

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

As an aside, I understood what you meant with the "hollow victory" verbiage. Some people seem not to understand the qualifier that preceded it; the sort of changes the meaning in a way that some seem to have overlooked. Perhaps you need to "dumb down" your posts.

.

The "sort of" post wasn't the one that many people responded to but the later capped statement without the qualifier. At the end of the day words have a meaning even within a context containg a qualifier so theres really no reason to circle the wagons (as is I admit customary) and accuse dumbness on those who hold a different view of the word "hollow". People saw it differently despite seeing that Brian clearly was on the OP's side. Clearly the OP didn't find it hollow.

At any rate theres a better way of determining dumbness. Its called an IQ test which despite its imperfections at least make an attempt at objectivity and it doesn't focus on somethings so hollow (couldn't resist) to measure intelligence. You might be surprised at how well some have done on it.

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

The "sort of" post wasn't the one that many people responded to but the later capped statement without the qualifier. At the end of the day words have a meaning even within a context containg a qualifier so theres really no reason to circle the wagons (as is I admit customary) and accuse dumbness on those who hold a different view of the word "hollow". People saw it differently despite seeing that Brian clearly was on the OP's side. Clearly the OP didn't find it hollow.

Another finger wagging lecture on rhetorical analysis... excellent.

Thanks, Mike. Our lives are made richer by your guidance and wisdom.

You may want to re-calibrate your metrics for "many" though... ya know, whenever you get through postulating on the whole "words have meaning" thing.

Best,

Brian

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Mike Anthony 14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

Thanks, Mike. Our lives are made richer by your guidance and wisdom.

Thanks Brian. I get that a lot (you know for an alleged dumb person mistakenly invited to Mensa). Always glad to help

I'd get into the relativity of "many" but I am saddled with alot of work backload and as of today watching to see if Wade county becomes LJ -Wade county. Something we might agree on. Adios.
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thatgirlJ

14 years ago

Oh, I'm not

But, if I'm going to continue using PayPal (and I am...) I at least have to make my case.

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Tim_Carter

14 years ago

I have had three chargebacks in five years. I won two out of the three.

Hint ** If they don't follow the chargeback rules they will LOSE!

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by Fouldini

The entire chargeback process is somewhat dubious, one reason I aim to keep my funds out of the reach of PayPal.

PayPal is actually on YOUR side of a chargeback dispute with a credit card company. PayPal requests supporting docs from you, then contests the chargeback on your behalf.

A PayPal dispute revolves around PayPal transactions using available PayPal account funds - a different beastie.

A chargeback happens when the consumer calls their credit card company and disputes the charges. In recent years, the number of consumers doing this has spiked - particularly buyers who never even attempt to contact the seller to request a refund through existing customer support channels.

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