How many Guru's do you think have Photoshop wealth?

[obiswill]

Hi All,

I haven't been doing any b2c online marketing recently as I've been working and doing a lot of offline marketing, and the online marketing I do is corporate based and not consumer based. In the early stages of IM I was in it heavy and did quite well...I just discovered that corporations pay far more for IM advice than the average Joe. That being said I have seen things that have disturbed me a bit.

I want to preface this by saying I don't know and truly don't care about the latest batch of guru's claiming all the millions they're making...however I do find some of the claims to be facinating...or shall I say farfetched.

It started with a friend of mine who emailed me to tell me about a claim made by a 'guru.' I'm not going to name names, but I did start to look at and read sales letters and videos of these new marketers. First I want to say kudo's to those using video in their marketing because I truly believe that is the best way, as well as those utilizing webinars. I love to see tech savy IM's.

But these claims of millions in months is ludicrious. Showing someone you made/make thousands per month is equally ludicrious, and then people believing them makes you a touch off kilter.

Does that mean people aren't making that much money online? Of course not. I know several people who make that online...but they don't go about advertising it. I know that we live in a visual society and people like to 'see' what they can make, but the reality is I have heard/seen very few IM's that have made the wealth claimed. I can tell you that for four reasons.

1. It doesn't make business sense. Anybody that knows any incling about business knows that money is created over time, not in an instant.
2. Their service/support is non exsistent or minimal at best. If you're making millions why don't you have any support? If you look at a lot of these sales letters, you will be hard pressed to find any type of email/im/phone contact. Now look across the internet and you will find someone as small as Betty's Bake Shop with full contact support. A small town baker can provide CS, but a million dollar IM can't?
3. Numbers don't add up. There are a lot of bad things about corporate america..one of the good things is there fanatic approach to testing and keeping numbers. I learned more in one year as a consultant to a Fortune 100 company, than in my business for 11 years. They can tell you the numbers for any and every campaign that they or their competitors do to the penny. I have often found that fascinating. I say that because I've seen many well capitalized corporate marketing campaigns routinely bomb. This was the norm, not the exception.
4. Many of these guru's have made money in technology/practices that are no longer working in the web 2.0 IM environment. I was on a webinar where they were demoing their product and I can see (I'm a programmer) that what they're doing is no longer applicable. I asked about it on the webinar and got no response. Unfortunately I got that on 3-4 webinars I've listened to. The pointed questions weren't answered. I've also seen them go to the small print earnings disclaimers. Hmmmm...

After carefully going through these latest crops of IM I've come to two summaries:

1. The IM business has gotten more cliqueish than ever. It seems one or two cliques seem to be trying to run the whole IM arena and don't seem to like to place nice with others (newbies).
2. Many of them have created photoshop wealth. I'm not saying all; I'm saying a lot have claimed to make the money that is showed in their sales letters, but it doesn't coorespond in other areas (ie. CS)

I'm a small business owner. I provide full contact for our offices in the USA, the Philippines, and China. We have 11 full time employees and anywhere from 70-75 contract employees depending upon when/if we're rolling out a new product. I'm not going to say were making millions of millions, but I can tell you the recession doesn't affect us.

That's my opinion on the guru's...but then again, my focus is more on b2b IM. Let me know what you think and if I'm off kilter!

[LegitIncomes]

I think the top tier, the top 10 or so that you hear about on a regular basis are probably all as they claim. It's the hundreds of sellers on DP, etc...that all claim to be making a million dollars, crazy stuff like that. Sure some is real, I don't doubt that at all...but many others are just out to scam people.

In the end it doesn't really matter what they make.
It's the information they provide, is it useful, can I make money with it? If so I might go for it, if not, I won't. That's it.

[obiswill]

In that case, how do you evaluate the information? I've read many ebooks, reports, etc that have had only rehashed information, rewritten.

[LegitIncomes]

Originally Posted by obiswill

In that case, how do you evaluate the information? I've read many ebooks, reports, etc that have had only rehashed information, rewritten.

I think just about every method to make money has been published somewhere before. But new authors come along and add their own tips, etc...that can mean the difference between success and failure.

You can only evaluate a product once you TAKE ACTION. If you take action, and follow the information step-by-step, as it is given to you, and you succeed, it was obviously well worth the price you paid.

[jimmymc]

Times change and new techniques come out...but the basics change very little. Rehashed or not, you still have to know the basics and many people don't or a least don't apply them.

jimmymc

[Clark]

Originally Posted by obiswill

In that case, how do you evaluate the information? I've read many ebooks, reports, etc that have had only rehashed information, rewritten.

Why have you not gotten past "GO" yet if you've read many ebooks/reports that have been telling you to follow the same method?

Did you implement the method? Test, tweek and track the results?

Blast the so-called Guru's all you want 'cause whomever they are, they don't care. Ultimately, your success depends upon YOU and not them just as they state on the sales letter via TOS agreement if you bothered to read it instead of skim it or overlook it completely.

Newbie angst isn't new around here in fact, many people have built businesses focussed solely on your emotional state (hint, hint, repeated purchases of the same topic at the same level).

I don't believe you are a small business owner because one would not complain openly on a forum about "The Gurus". Instead, they would attack the problem strategically and never give up given that the ROI is still present to carry on the effort otherwise, they would not be in business in the first place.

ROI = (I can "make" $50,000 per month in Clickbank sales however, I have to subtract my expenses that "leveraged" my revenue growth. I.e $50,000 gross revenue - $49,999.97 = My 3 cents on the subject of sales page revenue perception and the reality of ROI. (the real money is made in the follow-up product with the list of "confirmed buyers").

You should know that already.

As far as "cliquish" goes, once again you fail to prove to me that you are in fact a small business owner because if you were then you'd understand the power of "leveraging" top level Marketer's lists for immediate gains via joint venture agreements.

Many Fortune 500 and also small businesses that understand the power of "branding" will often run ad campains that do not realize a positive return on investment... for that campaign however, the "brand awareness" was the primary intent (Think Superbowl commercials and why on Earth McDonalds still feels the need to advertise)

Also, you claim to "roll out products" yet you don't have a system in place that builds anticipation in a hungry market for the product release launch date or perform any type of brand marketing?

Maybe that is one of many reasons you'll never make "millions and millions" in your imaginary small business.

Really I don't see anything the B2B market would want or purchase from you if you don't understand the fundamentals of marketing 'cause they'll smell it on you and reject you without batting an eyelash unless you're smart and outsource the "intelligence" work to someone else who will invariably steal your business out from under you without your knowledge.

[obiswill]

Wow! Clark I must have struck a nerve with you. Perhaps you're a guru who photoshops his wealth! hahaha. Look, clearly you didn't 'READ' what I wrote. I've been in business since 1997 and developed online marketing strategies and software from 2000-2002. Some of the guru's I worked with include the late Corey Rudl. Google 'Traffic Tsunami' and/or use the internet wayback machine and you will see that I've been part of the IM scene clearly...longer than you. Most of the 'guru's' of that time as well as many successful marketers was using traffic software I developed. I'm not telling you things I think, I'm telling you things I know.

I've been past 'Go' many many times and if you're read the post, you would clearly see it's not a 'Blast' on guru's, but an observation. I won't waste my time discussing my business with you because my conversations require common sense standards.

I buy a lot of products. Some good, some bad, some that should never have been made. I don't buy them because I 'need' them, I buy them to see 'If' there is anything new. Anyone in business always invest in continuing education, or you'll be out of business quick.

I don't write ebooks and/or informational products. My company develops customized software solutions for a myraid of business industries in the USA and abroad. I can say with 90% certainity that if you shop at Target, Walgreens, Walmart, and/or Aldi's you've purchased a product we've developed, or a US company contracted us to develop for them in Asia.

The only thing you said that resemebled coherent thought was about JV's. But in that vain you also didn't 'get it.' Many companies (mine included) have often used JV's as a way to build 'brand' and to expand their markets. However having a JV with IM would be 3-4 on the totem pole of importance. If you really understand marketing you would know that JV's with companies are far more valuable and lucrative then JVing with a fellow IM. I also stated, it is my opinion that is has become a clique. It is not only what I've been told (many times on differnent forums) but also what I've observed on my own. In 2000 everyone knew everyone and everyone was accessible. There was a spirit of working together and learning together because IM was still in it's infancy. Now there's a whole lot of IM calling themselves 'experts,' and from what I have read and seen and heard..they lack expertise!

The fact that you become so personally offended by what I said can only lead me to conclude that you must be photoshopping your success. Read the other post...no one else took it so personally. It's just a general question, that you took personally, and made personal. That's sad!

Times change and new techniques come out...but the basics change very little. Rehashed or not, you still have to know the basics and many people don't or a least don't apply them.

jimmymc

Jimmy,

Spoken by a man that has an understanding of life and business. There is very rarely anything knew under the sun...even in technology!