Would this be illegal?

getsmartt

14 years ago

This would be illegal and would likely get you banned from any respectable autoresponder.

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Doolder 14 years ago

This is definitely illegal, just imagine how much spam these companies would be getting if you could add them to your list without asking them first. Also, whereas most individuals do not take action against spam, most companies do.
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anthon

14 years ago

This is illegal for sure.
But anyway doing this is also almost impossible!
How can one collect enough emails of companies!?!

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Bill Farnham

14 years ago

Originally Posted by webworldwonders

I had an idea, would it be legal to add companies into your opt in form manually and start sending them emails. I ask this as I am sure the law states that companies are not immune to spam legally like private emails are?

This would be a textbook example of spam, and yes it could result in you suffering consequences that may not be pleasent.

Did you ever ask yourself WHY it is double opt-ins are an all but necessary evil of doing email marketing?

Well, one of the reasons is so people who do what you are suggesting can be held accountable.

~Bill

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Steven Carl Kelly

14 years ago

There actually is a loophole that could allow it in some cases. If you don't know the provision that allows for it, I'm not about to tell. Even though it may be allowed, it isn't good form or good for your business.

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getsmartt

14 years ago

If there is a loophole that would make this legal I would definitely have my lawyer looking at it before I attempted it.

That being said it is pretty useless to the discussion to pop in with a post like this if you are not willing to share.

Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly

There actually is a loophole that could allow it in some cases. If you don't know the provision that allows for it, I'm not about to tell. Even though it may be allowed, it isn't good form or good for your business.

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Owen Smith

14 years ago

It was just a question, not a plan.

But it does seem wierd how its not illegal to cold call companies but its illegal to email them as I would rather a spammy email than cold calls 10 times a day.

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John Wilkes

14 years ago

Originally Posted by webworldwonders

It was just a question, not a plan.

But it does seem wierd how its not illegal to cold call companies but its illegal to email them as I would rather a spammy email than cold calls 10 times a day.

Sorry, but in some cases "Cold Calling" businesses on the phone or by fax can also get you in to trouble. (Europe)

The Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003 prohibits the use of public electronic communication services for the purpose of making unsolicited calls for direct marketing purposes where the called line is that of a subscriber who has previously notified the caller that such calls should not for the time being be made on that line or where the number allocated to a subscriber in respect of the called line is listed in the Telephone Preference Service register or the Corporate Telephone Preference Service register.

Read more: When is cold calling legal and when is it illegal?

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Owen Smith

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John Wilkes

Sorry, but in some cases "Cold Calling" businesses on the phone or by fax can also get you in to trouble. (Europe)

The Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003 prohibits the use of public electronic communication services for the purpose of making unsolicited calls for direct marketing purposes where the called line is that of a subscriber who has previously notified the caller that such calls should not for the time being be made on that line or where the number allocated to a subscriber in respect of the called line is listed in the Telephone Preference Service register or the Corporate Telephone Preference Service register.

Read more: When is cold calling legal and when is it illegal?

Yes it is illegal to private numbers, but not to busineses

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Steven Carl Kelly

14 years ago

"Loophole" was a bad choice of words. "Provision" of the CAN-SPAM Act is probably a more apt description. It is spelled out fully if you read the compliance guide thoroughly.

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mattlaclear

14 years ago

It would certainly be considered spam. But let me ask everyone this: Did the Can Spam Act outlaw spam or legalize it? If certain criteria is met an unsolicited email is considered Can Spam compliant. 1) Physical address for removal purposes must be included, 2) Honor all opt out requests etc and etc. So folks that say spam is illegal just do not know all the facts.

But having spammed my way (my server sent out 1 million emails a day) through the Nineties and a few years into this Century let me tell you it just isn't worth sending out anymore. Click rates plummeted in 2004 and never returned to what they were before that. Plus you'll get your autoresponder shut down as well as your web hosting. It just pays to stay away from spam. You're far better off learning to gather traffic from the search engines. Plus you'll make way more money that way too.

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Steven Carl Kelly

14 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

It would certainly be considered spam. But let me ask everyone this: Did the Can Spam Act outlaw spam or legalize it?

It outlined the exact behaviors necessary to avoid being penalized for doing it in a way that the government doesn't allow. From that perspective, CAN-SPAM did provide a blueprint for sending "compliant" e-mails that your target recipient may not have signed up for.

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mattlaclear

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly

It outlined the exact behaviors necessary to avoid being penalized for doing it in a way that the government doesn't allow. From that perspective, CAN-SPAM did provide a blueprint for sending "compliant" e-mails that your target recipient may not have signed up for.

My point exactly.

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humbledmarket

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

It would certainly be considered spam. But let me ask everyone this: Did the Can Spam Act outlaw spam or legalize it? If certain criteria is met an unsolicited email is considered Can Spam compliant. 1) Physical address for removal purposes must be included, 2) Honor all opt out requests etc and etc. So folks that say spam is illegal just do not know all the facts.

But having spammed my way (my server sent out 1 million emails a day) through the Nineties and a few years into this Century let me tell you it just isn't worth sending out anymore. Click rates plummeted in 2004 and never returned to what they were before that. Plus you'll get your autoresponder shut down as well as your web hosting. It just pays to stay away from spam. You're far better off learning to gather traffic from the search engines. Plus you'll make way more money that way too.

Personally I think it outlawed spam.

However by sending individual unsolicited emails with your address as well as honoring request for opting out that isn't spam. I believe it's part of icann rules to send individually right? not too aware of it personally.

If you send it in bulk then it's considered spam

"Spam is the use of electronic messaging systems (including most broadcast media, digital delivery systems) to send unsolicited bulk messages"

Thus I'd think of it as Spam is Bad(Taste good but Bad for your health right?) but proper guidelines followed is not considered spam

"1) Physical address for removal purposes must be included, 2) Honor all opt out requests etc and etc. So folks that say spam is illegal just do not know all the facts."

These are some parts of the law but we also have to comply with all the others listed right. If this was all that was listed why wouldn't people just bot emails and send it out with a PO box and honor all opt outs.

Sorry just my pick on things not very acquainted with such rules

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scubasteve-cr

14 years ago

It is not illegal. Under CAN-SPAM, you are allowed to email anybody, whether or not it is an optin email address or not. There are rules that you need to follow, such as having a working remove link in the email, using a valid from address, having a valid mailing address in the ad, etc. However, you are not allowed to send emails that you have obtained from harvesting.

That being said, your autoresponder company will shut you down quickly for doing this, because it will be against their TOS. Autoresponder companies want people to input their contact information themselves, to ensure minimal spam complaints.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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Jeff Henshaw

14 years ago

It was just a question, not a plan.

But it does seem wierd how its not illegal to cold call companies but its illegal to email them as I would rather a spammy email than cold calls 10 times a day.

That's partly because the caller pays for the phone call and you can simply put down the telephone. Aside from automated calls, there is a one to one interaction. Spam and mass emails cost virtually nothing to send and one person can send to ten million people in the blink of an eye. This hogs bandwidth and server space and causes inconvenience to the recipient(s)

In the UK you can register your telephone number so that it is either removed or flagged in every database in the country. Any company that flouts registration can be fined and 99% of companies know and respect that. There is nothing like this in place to stop spam.

Remember too that if you are a customer, then the company can contact you by telephone or email, according to their terms of service, unless you specifically ask them to stop.

Just my thoughts,
Jeff.

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Kay King 14 years ago

Aside from legalities - and the potential of losing your autoresponder....

...do you really think sending emails to people who have not expressed any interest and never heard of you is going to be successful?
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sambakker

14 years ago

One of the main sites in NZ did that for a few months. People got hacked off and they got in alot of trouble for it. It is definately illegal boss.

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Michael Oksa

14 years ago

Originally Posted by webworldwonders

I had an idea, would it be legal to add companies into your opt in form manually and start sending them emails. I ask this as I am sure the law states that companies are not immune to spam legally like private emails are?

For me, it's not even a problem of legality, but rather ethics. But, as everybody's ethics are different, let me try another angle.

The answer is right there in in your question.

The key words are 'opt in'. In fact, you really can't involuntarily add anybody to an opt-in list, otherwise it is no longer an opt-in list. If you follow?

All the best,
Michael

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Black Hat Cat

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

For me, it's not even a problem of legality, but rather ethics. But, as everybody's ethics are different, let me try another angle.

The answer is right there in in your question.

The key words are 'opt in'. In fact, you really can't involuntarily add anybody to an opt-in list, otherwise it is no longer an opt-in list. If you follow?

All the best,
Michael

Semantics. How about we call it a list management service, or address management, or an address book, contact list, etc instead? Does that then make it ok?

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Owen Smith

14 years ago

I live in the United Kingdom

Mixed reviews on the legality of this then?

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Anup Mahajan

14 years ago

I think that would be downright spamming and you could get in trouble. Remember that the big companies have very deep pockets and good legal teams, so if they decide to go after someone, they can make his/her life hell. But of course they generally won't do it since they get lots of emails on a daily basis.

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Alfred Shelver

14 years ago

Personally I think after all thats been said, If Iam correct you would need to find all these business emails and then load them and it's not legal ethical etc.

Sounds like a lot of work for non targeted "spam" that would have no conversion rate ... why not put the same effort into a proper opt in list.

Especially as far as businesses are concerned their spam policies are very strict usually.

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Haussingen Peter

14 years ago

it's illegal absolutely...but Internet is illegal,society is illegal

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John Wilkes

14 years ago

The Corporate Telephone Preference Service

The Corporate Telephone Preference Service is a central opt-out register, whereby BUSINNESSES can register their wish not to receive unsolicited sales and marketing telephone calls to either all their organisation’s telephone numbers, or to certain numbers.

Read more: When is cold calling legal and when is it illegal?

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Thomas Michal

14 years ago

What If the Email address is right on the page for you to send an email/question to? They don't know that 3,000 other companies are getting that same email.

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Fairwar

14 years ago

Hello
Yes, it is. Actually, it is pretty obvious since to do something without the other party's permission is never right thing to do nor the way to do it. Also it just not very good to one's reputation either. Even if it isn't illegal, you are just nothing more but a spammer. Nobody would take you seriously in any matter.

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Would this be illegal?

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