Stopping Your PM Cutting You Out The Deal?

12 replies
I have seen people talking recently about hiring a project manager to run all their outsourcers and manage their IM business so they can take it easy.

What stops the PM just cutting you out of the picture and making the profits for himself?

Maybe I am mis-guided but I just see it as risky. I find the niche, I spend all the money doing the testing and finding what sells and what advertising works, then I train someone on how the entire thing works and expect them to work for me on the cheap while I rake in the profits?

I use several different outsourcers so each outsourcer only ever knows a small part of what I do. None of my outsourcers know each other. The only people who I share the whole process with are other IMers doing the same thing who share their data with me.

Having someone else manage them all sounds great. My core business has a high barrier of entry so I'm unlikely to run many risks there, but several of my revenue streams (the ones that could be managed by a PM) could be easily copied if someone had access to all my information.

I know a lot of people here have similar revenue streams. I basically buy content in and I use various methods to make this content return more money than I paid for it. Am I being paranoid thinking that when you show someone how to do this they will infact go do it for themself aswell-as/instead-of for you?
#cutting #deal #stopping
  • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
    Had something like that happen to a relative of mine...a rather lucrative offline biz. While there are many truly honest people out there...large quantities of money can turn a lot of people the other way. Sad, but true.

    You might want to ask an attorney for advice on agreements and such, but in conformance with the law so if you ever have to go after someone, it can hold up in court.

    Personally, I think it's much safer your way to have different outsourcers who only have a smaller piece of what is actually being done.
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    • You NEED MULTIPLE people working on many aspects of your business.

      You NEVER have just one person working on all the different aspects of your business.

      You only train them on one or two specific tasks.

      You then train other people on different sets of tasks.

      That's it!

      You need to keep CONTROL of your business.

      You NEVER give ALL of your TASKS to any ONE PERSON.

      You do and you are DOOMED!

      They WILL steal your business!

      Sounds like YOU are on the right track, GuerrillaIM. Kudos to you!

      Hope others see value in this post and don't make that fatal mistake .... having a Project Manager (PM) oversee EVERYTHING!

      To your continued success,

      JMB
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        This shouldn't be necessary at all.

        Your project manager will not know everything about the business to begin with and they may not have the funds to compete.

        Second, you don't just go hire and train a manager. The best bet is to promote from within. This encourages loyalty to you.

        Third, have a contingency plan in place if they leave and the ability to immediately replace them.

        Finally, make them sign contracts about company secrets.

        I have never had a problem and I doubt I ever will, even if someone leaves (due to point 3)

        Rob

        EDIT: Also, i would like to add, this is not how ANY business is supposed to run. You are the owner, the founder. You DO control your business - if someone walks off with your plans and does it himself, more power to them. Just follow your contingency plan and your good to go.

        Originally Posted by JMB Marketing Group View Post

        You NEED MULTIPLE people working on many aspects of your business.

        You NEVER have just one person working on all facets of your business.

        You only train them on one or two specific tasks.

        You then train other people on different sets of tasks.

        That's it!

        You need to keep CONTROL of your business.

        You NEVER give ALL of your TASKS to any ONE PERSON.

        You do and you are DOOMED!

        They WILL steal your business!

        Sounds like YOU were on the right track. Kudos to you!

        Hope others see value in this post and don't make that fatal mistake .... having a Project Manager (PM) oversee EVERYTHING!

        To your continued success,

        JMB
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        • You are right in a sense, ccmusicman when you say you SHOULDN'T have a problem.

          However, GuerrillaIM, was asking "what if".

          The "what if" is dealing with contracts and/or lawyers which you bring up.

          Sounds kind of messy to me if that "should" happen!

          I like to keep things simple.

          Have several people involved and in the end, No Lawyers and No mess!

          Just my 2 cents thrown in again

          However, perhaps we'll hear from other people that have (or had) PMs that haven't encountered any problems. That would definitely put a really positive spin on this subject!

          ccmusicman, I do also thank you for your input into this thread; as I think it brings up valid points for others to consider and/or re-consider for their current or future business endeavours.

          Sincerely,

          JMB
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Well I never have for one.

    She is very loyal and incredibly good natured.

    As it being messy, not really. You just make them sign a confidential agreement that they cannot use company secrets...

    But let me tell you something right here and now...

    Anyone can sign up for a WF account and learn what you are doing...

    Anyone can buy the ebooks, courses, etc. and learn what you are doing...

    Your competitors can watch what you do closely and mimic/copy. Your employee's can. Your mother can.


    This scarcity mindset (people will run off - create competition - destroy me...) is what is holding a LOT of people back from building truly autopilot businesses.

    Do you think that someone who wants to be paid a steady wage wants to give up that supposed security?

    Look how many people are miserable at their dead end jobs that have the brain power to go and do the same thing they are working for (creating their own business) - and be free....yet they don't do it at all.

    Everyone can do what we can do. Everyone has it in them. But hardly anyone will take the effort to get to the point where you can hire a project manager.

    Finally, one more case in point, then I'm done:

    If the big fear that was raised in this thread was common no business would be able to operate. It is totally against human psychology. We desire to be led - it makes it easier - and a project manager who is loyal will not leave for lots of reasons.

    Rob
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    • ccmusicman, once again, you've made some excellent points.

      However, coming from a VERY competitive arena (Real Estate Investing) a few years ago where I was taught this, it made perfect sense.

      However, I can't argue with you with this post and where we are today. Yes, things are different. In fact much different. People would rather be a follower today than a leader (or stealer) a few years ago!

      Again, thanks for putting your post into perspective. It NOW makes sense to me and where you are coming from, with respect to having a PM for your business.

      However, I still stand by my original comments: If someone feels uncomfortable or uneasy, then they should consider working with more than one person.

      Sincerely,

      JMB
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        Originally Posted by JMB Marketing Group View Post

        ccmusicman

        However, I still stand by my original comments: If someone feels uncomfortable or uneasy, then they should consider working with more than one person.

        Sincerely,

        JMB
        Yes, they should. The advantage of being your business, is well, it's your business and you can do what you want!

        Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
      Rob,

      You do have a point. If they leave and copy me it won't be the end of the world although the extra competition will mean I make less money if there is someone next to me replicating what I am doing.

      For instance in one niche I am in, at one point the top 3 advertisers all had one thing in common. They all worked for me as salespeople, actually out of my offices and not remotely. This pushed the PPC costs up and the conversions down. I am clever enough to stay ahead of the curve and keep it profitable, but it taught me a lesson and I guess explains my slightly paranoid attitude.

      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Anyone can sign up for a WF account and learn what you are doing....
      They may be able to learn about IM and develop a system, but I don't see how they will learn mine. It took several years of learning and testing to create the systems I am using today and are perfectly tailored for what I do.

      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Anyone can buy the ebooks, courses, etc. and learn what you are doing....
      For some stuff yes, but many things I do I have never seen layed out in an ebook. Also how much mis-information is out there? How many techniques in ebooks do you have to alter to actually make money? How many times do you have to fail before you suceed?

      Getting to look under the hood at someones company cannot be compared to reading an ebook in my opinion.

      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Your competitors can watch what you do closely and mimic/copy. Your employee's can. Your mother can.
      People within the niche already can do. But how did I uncover the niche? How am I monetizing it on the backend? Where am I promoting it? How am I offsetting my advertising cost? Outsiders will only ever be able to see a small percentage of what goes on behind the scenes as a lot of stuff can be hidden.

      I do need to delegate more though. I am working way too much right now. The idea of a guy I can train to do everything sounds so appealing, and I have a few of my contractors I use that I think could do it. Just finding it hard to get over the feeling I would be shooting myself in the foot.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        Let me put it to you another way:

        Would McDonalds be where they are today had they been "worried" about revealing their systems of hamburger production?

        Look at their competition - Wendy's, Hardee's, White Castle, Burger King, Dairy Queen...almost all of them are direct rip offs of McDonalds.

        All have a systemize approach to production, all have drive throughs, all have systemized ways of training, distribution, etc. in fact, they are almost all the same!

        But if you notice something - each one focuses on something SLIGHTLY different.

        If you hired and trained a PM to work for you - to manage for you - and he/she decided to back bags, copy and compete...he couldn't. He would have to put his own spin on it. He would have to get creative and be different from you.

        Otherwise, your market would quickly recognize him as a copycat. Especially since you where here first and it appears are the biggest/best.

        Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author Maddi
    Totally agreed with Rob there.

    My V.A who is not with me due to personal problems was pretty much running quite a few things in my business, it actually created a mess for me as I wasn't used to running those things and was banking on him actually.

    So another way to look at it would be, rather than thinking what if the PM starts doing things on his own and gets you out of the picture and steals your entire business from you, which is highly unlikely to happen and Rob has given a strong argument on that. Think like this, what if you PM leaves?

    would you be able to run your business immediately after he leaves? exactly the way it was run when the PM was there? The key here is not to give complete control to the PM in any case for multiple reasons.

    But then, if you are truly automating the process - PM may play an important role, but not a Vital one if that makes sense.

    My 0.2c

    Maddi
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
      Originally Posted by Maddi View Post

      Totally agreed with Rob there.

      My V.A who is not with me due to personal problems was pretty much running quite a few things in my business, it actually created a mess for me as I wasn't used to running those things and was banking on him actually.

      So another way to look at it would be, rather than thinking what if the PM starts doing things on his own and gets you out of the picture and steals your entire business from you, which is highly unlikely to happen and Rob has given a strong argument on that. Think like this, what if you PM leaves?

      would you be able to run your business immediately after he leaves? exactly the way it was run when the PM was there? The key here is not to give complete control to the PM in any case for multiple reasons.

      But then, if you are truly automating the process - PM may play an important role, but not a Vital one if that makes sense.

      My 0.2c

      Maddi
      The big key to preventing chaos is to have a system in place for immediately replacing the person.

      If the business is structure well...your people will know their jobs. They will still work. All you have to do is have a project manager in place to make sure it gets done in an organized fashion.

      You hire a replacement - spend a few weeks training - and you are back up again, with no real loss.

      Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt.Lake
    Following on from what Rob said, you also need to bare in mind that a lot of people just want a job. They don't want a business. They just want a job with a paycheck each month.

    I think this can be more the case with certain cultures. As an example, I know in general, people from the Philipines are said to be less entrepreneurial... they just want a job and would have no intention of stealing your business. In fact, that's the last thing they'd want to do because they'd risk losing their JOB!

    I'm also quite interested in this topic and bookmarked the last thread that was started about it, hoping that it may be added to in the future. I'm not quite in a position to hire a PM but I think the sooner you can incorporate one into your business, the better. So I'd look to hire one from the outset... at least as soon as it makes sense.

    Build from the ground up, as they say.

    Matt
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