Dirty Rotten Secret That Can Double Your Response

by The Copy Nazi Banned
30 replies
You seen this at work? You get an email offering something or other. And then you get another one the next day saying something like "Sorry...I screwed up...I'm an idiot. The Blue Widget is available for $10 not the $100 I stupidly said it was yesterday (but feel free to pay $100 if you like). Right now I'm busy sending out a gazillion $90 refunds. So - sorry about that Chief. The correct price for the Blue Widget is $10 - not $100.
Now I'm gonna go fall on my sword."

I'm seeing this from a very high profile marketer that you know well. Not just once or twice either. Consistently. And I bet this little trick is at least doubling his conversions.

Dirty pool or what?
#dirty #double #response #rotten #secret
  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
    There have been several posts about anchoring recently and rightly so, because it's a powerful concept. This is all down to the fact that the human brain likes to work relative to a starting point and has difficulty coming up with a starting point if one isn't provided. Let me give an example -

    If we go to a big concert that's absolutely full of people and I turn to you and say, "How many people do you think are here?" Your brain will reel at trying to estimate that, especially from within the crowd. But if I say to you, "Do you think there are about 500 people here?" Your brain will use that as the starting point and although you know there must be way more your estimate will be far lower than if I hadn't anchored you to the concept of there being 500 people there.

    I know that ones works, that's how someone taught it to me

    So what does that mean for pricing. Well, if you say something is worth $100 you anchor your prospects' minds to that price point. Some may buy, most will probably baulk at it (if it's really only a $10 price point item) but it makes their estimate of it's worth far higher than if you'd just let them draw their own conclusion.

    When you combine that with a follow up email saying, "It's really only $10" and "I'm issuing lots of $90 refunds" that tells people that they are getting a bargain because the price is not only much lower than their anchor point but it's also got the social proof aspect, that if the marketer is issuing a lot of $90 refunds then he must have sold a lot at $100 which means a lot of other people thought it was worth $100 too.

    I really believe this concept should be in any direct response 101 course as it's just that powerful.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher View Post

      If we go to a big concert that's absolutely full of people and I turn to you and say, "How many people do you think are here?" Your brain will reel at trying to estimate that, especially from within the crowd.
      Andy,

      I must be weird. If you asked me that question I would estimate the size of the stadium, and the number of people per 100 square feet, then do the maths.

      That's an interesting example, though, when you consider the often big disparities in crowd estimates at big events, particularly demonstrations. The figures given by the police, the organisers and the event's detractors can vary by very high percentages.

      I agree on the power of anchoring, but I'm just wondering about the way the OP's example is being done.

      1. Is s/he really doing the refunds or just saying so?

      2. If actually doing this on a regular basis, how does his/her payment processor view the matter?

      3. Again, if it's a regular occurrence, how would the FTC view this? Is it not blatantly deceptive?

      Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times . . . ?


      Martin
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      • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
        Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

        Andy,

        I must be weird. If you asked me that question I would estimate the size of the stadium, and the number of people per 100 square feet, then do the maths.
        Anchoring doesn't work after you apply some kind of intelligent estimate. Eg at the concert in question I "knew" 500 must be way too low but in my mind I was thinking thousands, maybe up to 10,000. Then I did a row x chair count for a single stall and then a stall count. There were upwards of 50,000 people there

        Anchoring works so well for pricing because there is no way to intelligently "figure it out" like in the concert attendees example.

        At best you can figure out the cost of providing the service, you certainly can't "figure out" something's intangible worth to you.

        That's an interesting example, though, when you consider the often big disparities in crowd estimates at big events, particularly demonstrations. The figures given by the police, the organisers and the event's detractors can vary by very high percentages.

        I agree on the power of anchoring, but I'm just wondering about the way the OP's example is being done.

        1. Is s/he really doing the refunds or just saying so?

        2. If actually doing this on a regular basis, how does his/her payment processor view the matter?

        3. Again, if it's a regular occurrence, how would the FTC view this? Is it not blatantly deceptive?

        Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times . . . ?


        Martin
        The OP's example is a pretty extreme one and not something I'd do myself. But it a very effective technique when applied correctly.

        Another great example is my Mum, who loves to tell me all about the "great offers" she got last time she went shopping. Simply because she was sent a catalogue showing all the clothes/kitchen ware etc at "full" price and saying there would be a great discount on the day. So she dutifully shows up on the day, sees all the goods priced way lower than in the catalogue and thinks she's getting a great bargain.

        Without ever questioning that she's actually paying the real price and the higher one is simply an anchor to increase perceived value.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Antoni
    I read in a copywriting book at one point about 2 old men who used a trick like this.

    They sold men's suits and when a customer asked about a suit cost, he'd tell the customer he has to ask his partner.

    He'd yell to his partner, "how much is this suit?" The partner would yell back "$400" loud and clear to make sure the customer heard him.

    Then, the old man would pretend like he couldn't hear his partner. "I think he said $100. Sound like a fair price?"

    The customer would jump at the offer thinking he got a great deal because the old man misheard the price. In reality, the suit always cost $100.
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    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by Mike Antoni View Post

      I read in a copywriting book at one point about 2 old men who used a trick like this.

      They sold men's suits and when a customer asked about a suit cost, he'd tell the customer he has to ask his partner.

      He'd yell to his partner, "how much is this suit?" The partner would yell back "$400" loud and clear to make sure the customer heard him.

      Then, the old man would pretend like he couldn't hear his partner. "I think he said $100. Sound like a fair price?"

      The customer would jump at the offer thinking he got a great deal because the old man misheard the price. In reality, the suit always cost $100.
      I've experienced this one more than once in different scenarios, though. I just
      smile at them.

      Mal, I haven't read this one from you since the big Kern thread that one Sunday.

      "Now I'm gonna go fall on my sword."

      I laughed both times I read that. It's cool. I'm gonna swipe it. Thanks.

      Ken
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    • Profile picture of the author CBSnooper
      Originally Posted by Mike Antoni View Post

      I read in a copywriting book at one point about 2 old men who used a trick like this.

      They sold men's suits and when a customer asked about a suit cost, he'd tell the customer he has to ask his partner.

      He'd yell to his partner, "how much is this suit?" The partner would yell back "$400" loud and clear to make sure the customer heard him.

      Then, the old man would pretend like he couldn't hear his partner. "I think he said $100. Sound like a fair price?"

      The customer would jump at the offer thinking he got a great deal because the old man misheard the price. In reality, the suit always cost $100.
      I was going to quote that when I read this thread. I read it in Robert Cialdinis 'Influence'. If you've not read it, you're missing out. it's all about psychology and you'll learn a lot about what makes people tick.
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    • Profile picture of the author Matt Morgan
      Originally Posted by Mike Antoni View Post

      I read in a copywriting book at one point about 2 old men who used a trick like this.

      They sold men's suits and when a customer asked about a suit cost, he'd tell the customer he has to ask his partner.

      He'd yell to his partner, "how much is this suit?" The partner would yell back "$400" loud and clear to make sure the customer heard him.

      Then, the old man would pretend like he couldn't hear his partner. "I think he said $100. Sound like a fair price?"

      The customer would jump at the offer thinking he got a great deal because the old man misheard the price. In reality, the suit always cost $100.
      Unless the customer was like Ned Flanders and was extra honest, and would say 'I think you are misheard and are mistaken for the $100 price that your colleague just shouted out. He infact said $400 so I will not pay any less as i am an extra honest guy"



      Okily dokily.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    Gee, sales people are just real devious people, aren't they?
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    • Profile picture of the author David Jackson
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      Gee, sales people are just real devious people, aren't they?
      The great one's are, yes.

      David Jackson
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    • Profile picture of the author AlanB
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      Gee, sales people are just real devious people, aren't they?
      They are geniuses... my hat's off and we sure have to learn from them...

      Cheers!
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  • Profile picture of the author Anup Mahajan
    Great tip.. It sounds similar to the bargains at the supermarkets
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  • Profile picture of the author HarryCharles
    This is actually a tactic I have used on my list once or twice. You are right the open rates and convertions are extremely good. If you make somone think they are going to have to pay a huge price for a premium product and then suddenly drop it you normally find they will buy buy buy!
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  • Profile picture of the author RichardHK
    Both of these sales 'tricks' are covered, along with lots more in the Robert Cialdini book "Influence: Science and Practice" 5th Ed that is quite cheap from the big A.com. It's a great and readable book on how we all fall (get persuaded) for such simple tricks. It's all the mind/brain! Recommended reading for any marketer.
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    • Profile picture of the author getsmartt
      I'll have to go buy that one...2 more good ones that cover this type of stuff are

      Priceless: The Myth of Fair Value (and how to take advantage of it) by William Poundstone

      and

      Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions by Dan Ariely

      Both are excellent and a worthy addition to any collection

      Originally Posted by RichardHK View Post

      Both of these sales 'tricks' are covered, along with lots more in the Robert Cialdini book "Influence: Science and Practice" 5th Ed that is quite cheap from the big A.com. It's a great and readable book on how we all fall (get persuaded) for such simple tricks. It's all the mind/brain! Recommended reading for any marketer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Brian
    I got my own experience in mishearing prices but with a different twist:

    One of my offline clients thought I'm gonna make him an internet marketing
    campaign including website dev't for only a one-time fee of $xxx.

    He was so ecstatic and thought the price was cheap and I got the deal.
    All the while I thought he understood me that he's gonna pay $xxx/mo (not a one-time fee).

    We discussed and jump-started the campaign then came the billing day
    and I said we need a 6-month post-dated checks to continue.
    Then he was surprised and said that it never occurred to him
    that it was a monthly fee.

    At that point I didn't know what I do as I thought he understood
    that it was monthly so I tried to explain that it was indeed a monthly fee.
    A few moments later he issued the checks.

    Not sure why he decided to continue, maybe it was because we've already jump-started
    his campaign and he felt shy backing out because he didn't want to be stingy?
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Watch this TED video:

    http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert...happiness.html

    The whole thing is good, but when it gets to about 8:00 it starts to reveal the psychology of pricing. I recommend this video to all of the marketers I mentor.

    Check it out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    Joe Girard is noted as the World's Greatest Salesman because he sold more retail "big ticket" items "one-at-a-time" than any other sales-person in any retail industry including houses, boats, motor homes, insurance, automobiles, etc.

    That record has still not been broken!

    In his 13 Rules To Succeed list he does not talk about using psychological deception in any way.

    As a matter of fact, number 9 states :

    • TELL THE TRUTH
      If you get caught in a lie even once, you will always be a liar. Even if you tell the truth for the rest of your life, you won't be trusted or believed, consider yourself DEAD.
    So not all successful sales people are deceptive, at least not the best.
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    • Profile picture of the author 1960Texan
      Originally Posted by Matt M View Post

      Joe Girard is noted as the World's Greatest Salesman because he sold more retail "big ticket" items "one-at-a-time" than any other sales-person in any retail industry including houses, boats, motor homes, insurance, automobiles, etc.

      That record has still not been broken!

      In his 13 Rules To Succeed list he does not talk about using psychological deception in any way.

      As a matter of fact, number 9 states :

      • TELL THE TRUTH
        If you get caught in a lie even once, you will always be a liar. Even if you tell the truth for the rest of your life, you won't be trusted or believed, consider yourself DEAD.
      So not all successful sales people are deceptive, at least not the best.
      That's absolutely the way I feel about it. I just got back from a first meeting with an offline client. At the end of our session I quoted her a price for the 2 hours we spent together. She misunderstood, thinking I gave her the rate per hour, and wrote a check for twice what she owed me. I've got no problem admitting that for a split second I considered pocketing the check and saying "Thank you", but instead I did the right thing and let her know that she over paid.

      Do you think she'll use me again? Do you think I'll be able to get referrals from her? Do you think that she'll brag about how honest I am to all of those she mentions me to?

      I know from experience that the answers are yes, yes, and yes.

      Not all salespeople are devious.

      Will
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      • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
        Originally Posted by 1960Texan View Post

        Do you think I'll be able to get referrals from her? Do you think that she'll brag about how honest I am to all of those she mentions me to?
        Exactly right.

        The highest conversions come from referrals and if we think about the 80 / 20 rule where 80% of our business comes from 20% of our customers, wouldn't it be great if those 20% were all extremely loyal and loved to give us more referrals.

        Back to Joe and his approach, he talks about the power of the people talking about you and how much damage you are really doing when you deceive someone or give them a reason to speak bad of you.

        He works with his "Law of 250" which states that the average person knows around 250 people.

        If you think about each person having some sort of influence over roughly 250 other people, wouldn't you want those people that you come in contact with to have a positive feeling about you?

        Of course, that's obvious.

        But now think about those same people having a very negative view of you and they too know and talk to around 250 people.

        People not only get passionate about talking about getting good deals and service but also bad deals and bad service.

        Each time you deceive one person, you are actually talking to many more people than that one.

        Macy's Department Store built their reputation on extreme customer service and being helpful even if you didn't buy anything from them.

        If Macy's didn't carry an item you were looking for, they not only told you which one of their competitors carried it, they drew you a map to their store.

        Now every year in the US, millions of people gather around their televisions in November to watch the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Matt, you give a good frame of reference by using the Joe Girard example.

          It's also interesting to note that his success was in an industry where salespeople usually carry a negative stereotype. He went against what the masses were doing.

          Anyway, I thought I'd also add that the use of psychological triggers doesn't always equate to deception.

          Good share though.
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          • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
            [QUOTE=Lance K;2405427I thought I'd also add that the use of psychological triggers doesn't always equate to deception.

            Good share though. [/QUOTE]

            I agree. I don't think using triggers is a deception.

            Deceptive people use many tools that were not intended for deceptive purposes.

            A hammer is a great thing to have when you are pounding nails, but it has also been used to harm people too.
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    • Profile picture of the author DogScout
      Originally Posted by Matt M View Post

      Joe Girard is noted as the World's Greatest Salesman because he sold more retail "big ticket" items "one-at-a-time" than any other sales-person in any retail industry including houses, boats, motor homes, insurance, automobiles, etc.
      There is a "story" behind that "story"... and "story" is an appropriate word in that use.
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      • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
        Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

        There is a "story" behind that "story"... and "story" is an appropriate word in that use.
        Please tell
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Everybody lies. Those who say they don't are lying.

    But I understand Joe Girard's point when it comes to deception and trustworthiness in the sales process.
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  • Profile picture of the author lakiadex
    Those ooops, and ouch emails I don't even read you want me to buy your product but here you are making big mistakes I am good.
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  • Profile picture of the author awesometbn
    Not sure if this has already been posted but here are a couple of excellent articles about the anchoring effect.

    From the "You are not so smart" blog by David McRaney:
    Anchoring Effect You Are Not So Smart

    From mint.com blog by Matthew Amster-Burton:
    Price Anchoring, Or Why a $499 iPad Seems Inexpensive | MintLife Blog | Personal Finance News & Advice

    I see a couple of examples mentioned earlier are listed in these articles. Good reading.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Originally Posted by Metronicity View Post

    You seen this at work? You get an email offering something or other. And then you get another one the next day saying something like "Sorry...I screwed up...I'm an idiot. The Blue Widget is available for $10 not the $100 I stupidly said it was yesterday (but feel free to pay $100 if you like). Right now I'm busy sending out a gazillion $90 refunds. So - sorry about that Chief. The correct price for the Blue Widget is $10 - not $100.
    Now I'm gonna go fall on my sword."

    I'm seeing this from a very high profile marketer that you know well. Not just once or twice either. Consistently. And I bet this little trick is at least doubling his conversions.

    Dirty pool or what?
    For the "story" to be true the marketer would have had to not only made a pricing typo in his email, but he'd have had to make the same gaffe setting his shopping cart to be selling at the incorrect price. To me it's an obvious lie. I'd unsubscribe from his list and never buy a thing from him. Either that or he didn't know the price of his own product. I'm not buying that either.

    Second point, if he's sold a gazillion of them and no one is complaining, I seriously doubt he'd issue refunds. I think he'd keep selling at the accidental price and rake it in, don't you? The tactic may have short term benefits, but I can't help but wonder for how long. To me, there's a big different between establishing anchors and just plain lying.

    I second the Cialdini book, Influence. If you haven't read it yet, be sure you do soon. It's brilliant.
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    I'd attribute such a promo to the guy launching his offer at a too
    high price and not selling any units at all.... he realizes his
    error and tries to recoup his losses.

    I've written letters for clients where we agreed on a price and
    the client, enthusiastic about all the money they were hoping
    to make, jacked the price way up (tripling it to $1500 in one
    case), emailed their list... and didn't make any money.

    If you monkey around with something as serious as peoples' money,
    they take notice. Running a sale is a good thing - but playing
    games with the price to a house list is asking for people
    to start thinking you are full of it... a liar, a cheat.
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