Why would you ever build a list on double optin?

14 years ago

If they can't do the trouble to double opt in, why will they ever buy from you? Time wasters. It's not the size of the list but the quality of the list.

What you are doing with double opt in is to qualify prospects.

In one of my niches I go one step further. They have to double opt in and once they do I immediatly try to sell them something (small $7.95 purchase). This will give you a list of highly responsive, willing and able BUYERS rather than a list full of freebie seekers.

Sam

PS! Once they make the purchase of $7.95, they are automatically sent a letter in the mail for a $197 product. Response rates are through the roof for that letter! Can you guess why?

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PeterGarety 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Sam Dunning

If they can't do the trouble to double opt in, why will they ever buy from you? Time wasters. It's not the size of the list but the quality of the list.

I completely agree here. I am building one list and in the way of double opt-in, I am losing half of them. However, that is fine, since I know that those who are really interested to see what I am up to, will check their inbox and will confirm subscription.

The other thing is anti-spam guys. They are working in order to fight with the spam. So, if they come to your site, and if they will find out that you have single opt-in, you might get into troubles.
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phmoisan

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Sam Dunning

If they can't do the trouble to double opt in, why will they ever buy from you? Time wasters. It's not the size of the list but the quality of the list.

What you are doing with double opt in is to qualify prospects.

In one of my niches I go one step further. They have to double opt in and once they do I immediatly try to sell them something (small $7.95 purchase). This will give you a list of highly responsive, willing and able BUYERS rather than a list full of freebie seekers.

Sam

PS! Once they make the purchase of $7.95, they are automatically sent a letter in the mail for a $197 product. Response rates are through the roof for that letter! Can you guess why?

Hi Sam,

I like the $7.95 idea. I believe it will help determine if the people are serious about looking at my offers of just surfing for free stuff.

Then again, like you said, Alexa made a good point about the approach depending on the market. Testing, testing, testing. Bryan Kumar says that's the name of the game.

Philippe

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

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Freddie Crossberg

14 years ago

Point taken, but then again it will also depend on your business model. As mine is to send offers via direct mail to subscribers, it's best to qualify them with double and a purchase.

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Yes; many do. I have a couple of niches for which I make more income, pro rata, with single opt-in lists than I did when I mistakenly used double opt-in for them.

For many people, it has nothing to do with "the trouble to opt in" at all. And some of them are definitely buyers who'll be lost with confirmed opt-in.

That said, I do choose to use confirmed opt-in for most of my niches.

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Gene Pimentel 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Nobody will convince me that I need a confirmed opt-in list for a cauliflower soup recipes niche.

How do I get on this list?

(sorry, hungry)
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Dean Jackson

14 years ago

This is something that I have been curious about myself.

I recall reading something that said it helps with your emails not being regarded as spam, but I don't see how that works.

If you look at list swappers they place a lot of emphasis on double opt in subscribers. It may be an effective way of making sure you get a more targeted list as they are willing to make the effort to go to their inbox and check.

If anyone could shed some more light that would be great.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by xplosivmon

This is something that I have been curious about myself.

I recall reading something that said it helps with your emails not being regarded as spam, but I don't see how that works.

If you look at list swappers they place a lot of emphasis on double opt in subscribers. It may be an effective way of making sure you get a more targeted list as they are willing to make the effort to go to their inbox and check.

If anyone could shed some more light that would be great.

To impersonate the sender, simply set the email address on your software. EASY!

To impersonate the receiver is FAR harder!

So I guess the reason for double optin is they tell you to send something. They could tell you the email is from the whitehouse! If they can respond to something YOU sent, they are either a VERY lucky felon that is likely to go to jail, or the Email address is right.

Steve

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maleeqa

14 years ago

Hi,

In my opinion, its depend on the niche. There are pros and contras on both method.

Whatever it is..Just try it first and study the market.

Best regards,
Mal

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spanisheye

14 years ago

I always use double opt in and some of my lists of thousands of subscribers generate a typical open rate of over 70%.

It's all about quality not quantity.

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PCRoger

14 years ago

One reason they never confirm their optin is because they did not get the confirmation email (lack of whitelisting, which many marketers describe on the page taken to after the initial optin).

If they do not confirm because they did not get the confirm message then they won't buy from you anyway because they will never get your follow up messages either.

When you look at the penalties for CAN-SPAM non compliance, it is easy to get scared into using double optin

Regards,
PCRoger.

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Janice Sperry

14 years ago

I use Aweber and you do not have a choice - it is double optin or nothing. It really does cut down on spam complaints and gives proof they agreed to receive your emails. With single optin they can claim someone else entered the email address or you scraped it from somewhere else.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

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ldobson 14 years ago

Hi Alexa,

You are correct concerning Aweber. You have a choice after completeing step number one on each campaign you develop; however, once you click the yes or no tab for double opt-in, you may not change that particular campaign.

Go out and make it a great day!

Lloyd Dobson
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blalock61

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Here we go again ...

This just isn't so. Some Aweber users have a mixture of double opt-in and single opt-in lists. It's a complicated issue. People who are on "double only" don't have the option to go back to single opt-in for a new list, though, as far as I'm aware.

Even after you have started a campaign, you can go back and change the lists settings from double to single-opt in or vice versa.

Go to My Lists->List Settings->Step 2: Confirmed Opt-Ins and make the necessary changes. When you make the change, Aweber will ask you if this is what you want to do and just click 'Yes' and Save. I did this less than an hour ago in order to test a niche list.

Also, be sure to change the setting for your opt-in form to make sure your subscribers are forwarded to correct page after subscribing if single opt-in or receiving correct opening message if going to double, etc.

Everything else you posted above, I am in 100% agreement with.

Thanks.

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JayXtreme

14 years ago

Originally Posted by blalock61

Even after you have started a campaign, you can go back and change the lists settings from double to single-opt in or vice versa.

Go to My Lists->List Settings->Step 2: Confirmed Opt-Ins and make the necessary changes. When you make the change, Aweber will ask you if this is what you want to do and just click 'Yes' and Save. I did this less than an hour ago in order to test a niche list.

Also, be sure to change the setting for your opt-in form to make sure your subscribers are forwarded to correct page after subscribing if single opt-in or receiving correct opening message if going to double, etc.

Everything else you posted above, I am in 100% agreement with.

Thanks.

Alexa is correct...

If AWeber change your settings to double opt-in only.. you don't have the choice to revert back to single.

They usually only change people to double opt-in only, if you have had a spam issue or something of the sort.

I'm not even wanting to get into the rest of the discussion... so much mis-information floating around...

Test it for yourself, people.

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blalock61

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

Alexa is correct...

If AWeber change your settings to double opt-in only.. you don't have the choice to revert back to single.

They usually only change people to double opt-in only, if you have had a spam issue or something of the sort.

I'm not even wanting to get into the rest of the discussion... so much mis-information floating around...

Test it for yourself, people.

I was referring to the fact that once you create a campaign you can change your list settings from single to double or back again.

I was not referring to the case if Aweber changes the settings for you.

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ldobson

14 years ago

Hey Ak2000,

I couldn't agree with you more about having a single opt-in autoresponder. To put it very simply, it is a numbers game. People are in a hurry . . .whether they have something to do or not. They want instant gratification, a human characteristic. I have utilized both in all of my years marketing and my stats indicate one sided that a single opt-in give you greater productivity. I am not speaking of just growing your lists . . I am speaking of turning them into paying customers.

So with that said . . .go out and make it a great day!

Lloyd Dobson

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perdanadhi

Banned 14 years ago

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ldobson 14 years ago

Hey Perdanadhi,

You are right on concerning testing the market. Accountability with measuring results, looking at the trends is applying some fundamentals for success. If you just look at one industry, sports, every successful team utilizes statistics to adjust their game plan. It is no different in the market place. Every successful business monitors their stats to determine a direction.

I personally do the same thing with my campaigns in both single and double opt-in campaigns.

Well said and have a great day!
Lloyd Dobson
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Shaun OReilly 14 years ago

Because I use Infusionsoft for my autoresponders, I can
communicate with both single and double opt-in subscribers.

If the visitor joins a list, they immediately become a
single opt-in subscriber in my database and I can e-mail
them thereafter.

If they then click on the link in the 'confirmation' e-mail,
they become a double opt-in subscriber and their e-mails
get delivered from the double opt-in servers with a better
reputation and higher deliverability.

I can also completely customize the double opt-in e-mail
including the subject line, body text and link URL and
destination URL.

So either way, I get the ability to communicate with the
subscriber whatever there mode of opt-in.

I also use a script to validate their e-mail to minimize
mistakes on the initial opt-in.

The approach depends on the niche.

For IM, I prefer double opt-in as I get a fully trackable
lead source so I can counter any potential spam complaints.

Dedicated to your success,

Shaun
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Janice Sperry

14 years ago

@Alexa and Idobson - thanks for correcting me. I had no idea Aweber gave you a choice to use the confirmed optin or not. I will continue to use it for my list.

Thanks

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MrMike

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ak2000

Sorry if I'm being thick but if you're building a list why wood you ever set it on double optin rather than single?
With double you will lose a large amount of people on the way (signing up but not confirming)

So would you not rather have them signing up and potentially unsubscribing at a later stage but at least have them in your list in the first place?

Cheers

You are correct. You give yourself a better chance by going with single optin.

Thanks

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robvegas626

14 years ago

I was under the impression that when you have a double opt-in list, there is a higher probability that your emails will get delivered to their inbox and not wind up in their spam folder...

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JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

I've used mainly confirmed opt-in for so long I really ought to test it again, but I don't position it as a confirmation. I position it as an added service, an extra step for me to help make sure those who ask for my stuff get it. Something like...

"There's one more step. We need to make sure we can deliver our emails to the address you gave us. We just sent you a test message to check. Please do us a favor and click the link in the test email to let us know it got through. After you do, you'll get a little gift to thank you for your help..."

I also believe it helps deepen their commitment without hitting them over the head with a "you must confirm" message.

Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly

If the visitor joins a list, they immediately become a single opt-in subscriber in my database and I can e-mail them thereafter.

If they then click on the link in the 'confirmation' e-mail, they become a double opt-in subscriber and their e-mails get delivered from the double opt-in servers with a better reputation and higher deliverability.

I can also completely customize the double opt-in e-mail including the subject line, body text and link URL and destination URL.

Shaun

Shaun, I like that idea. I never thought of maintaining a separate list for unconfirmed opt-ins. I'll have to noodle over how to do this with the package I use... Thanks!

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Landis 14 years ago

because if you get spam complaints, you can show by double opting in they agreed to be on that list. Why risk your entire list because some assholes got tired of your emails after a week or month.
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Janice Sperry

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Something like...

"There's one more step. We need to make sure we can deliver our emails to the address you gave us. We just sent you a test message to check. Please do us a favor and click the link in the test email to let us know it got through. After you do, you'll get a little gift to thank you for your help..."

That is a great idea to word it something like that. It does sound a lot better than "Confirm now or I cut you out of my life forever!"

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rondo

14 years ago

It seems to me that some accounts won't allow you to change back and forth, and some do.

I had both type of accounts. One was an old account, one is a newer account.

Andrew

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dndoseller

14 years ago

Because anyone can put any email address into a sign up form. Only a confirmed email address is a real and interested subscriber. Even with double opt in you get spam complaits ...I would imagine single opt in is a nightmare.

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Karate Kid

14 years ago

Mainly to cut down on flakes and to cover your butt legally.

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Jeff Henshaw 14 years ago

Just to sum up what has already been said several times in the thread. If you use Aweber then you can select single opt in or confirmed opt in on A LIST by LIST basis.

If you are a naughty girl or boy and get too many spam complaints (Aweber will be the judge and jury on this) then you will get a warning. If the problem persists then you will be dealt with at an ACCOUNT level. That is, your Aweber ACCOUNT will be set to CONFIRMED opt in, which means that your option of single or confirmed optin is removed at the LIST level.

As to what then happens to your lists that were single optin - well that will be determined by dialogue between you and Aweber!

I hope that this helps.

Regards,
Jeff.
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- bigbrian 14 years ago
  
  Honestly... I personally prefer a single opt-in list. It's easier, quicker, and no nonsense. You are not going to get complaints to the extend that it will really matter so don't worry about that. Others might say go for the double opt-in but I really don't see the point.
  
  I have created a handful of websites selling products and have made a great deal of money from them. I always use single opt-in and when I launch the next site in the same niche I mail my single opt-in list and it works like butter - nice and smooth!
  
  This is just my 02 cents though... Like I said I am sure others might think differently.
  
  Brian
  
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John A Goodwin

14 years ago

By having double optin, you make sure they gave you a valid email. Also double optin will reduce spam complaints.

John

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JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John A Goodwin

By having double optin, you make sure they gave you a valid email. Also double optin will reduce spam complaints.

John

John, a good bounce handler will take care of whether the email is valid or not. I set mine to try three times, and if it still bounces, the address is deleted. That's for 'soft' bounces (mailbox full, and other temporary problems). 'Hard' bounces, like "email does not exist" get deleted on the first bounce.

Confirmed opt-in may or may not reduce spam complaints, depending on, among other things, the source of the subscriber, the inducement to subscribe and the content of the list messages.

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Don Schenk

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

...a good bounce handler will take care of whether the email is valid or not. I set mine to try three times, and if it still bounces, the address is deleted. That's for 'soft' bounces (mailbox full, and other temporary problems). 'Hard' bounces, like "email does not exist" get deleted on the first bounce.

John, does aWeber offer that? I hope they do. Now you have me curious.

:-Don

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JohnMcCabe 14 years ago

Don, I can't answer that. I've never used aWeber.

Without going into details, I have a self-hosted setup that's been tweaked over the years to suit my needs.
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ak2000

14 years ago

Many, very interesting viewpoints - thanks for your thoughts all

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Igor Kheifets

14 years ago

By using double confirmed optins, you're
preventing about 90% of SPAM complaints, leagul
issues and you're actually making your prospect
to take the one extra step in the process which
results in a stronger relationship with your list.

-Igor

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plainwords

14 years ago

I only use single optin. The reason is, if someone enters their name and email into the form on my website, I consider they have already opted in. Why do I then need to ask them: "Are you really sure you want to hear from me?"

I've never had any spam complaints because I offer information that people want to read (I'm in two health niches, where people are desperate for information).

Having said that, I can appreciate why people in the Internet marketing niche might want to have double optin - particularly if they are aggressive in their marketing.

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ak2000

14 years ago

Agreed - it's all about testing, testing and testing again

For example, in a recent survey of my list 75% of the people answered they are just wanting to learn about starting a business online
So I doubt many of them would buy the 7.95$ product upfront, but many end up buying products down the line...
(as the majority of them have already bought some kind of product online)

But interesting idea...

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good2go4

14 years ago

If you are only using a single optin are you sending the customer to a sales page, or a free report page and does it make a difference in regards to effectiveness?

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Susanrh 14 years ago

It's interesting to read that double opt-in is optional, I have an aweber account with several lists and sometimes having subscribers confirm is a real pain.
I use one list for my local village newsletter and most of the subscribers are not computer savvy to say the least and I would say that I've had to lead at least 50% of them through the procedure with multiple emails.

Since reading this thread I have looked at my aweber account to turn off the double opt-in on this list but I can't find out how to. I've looked at the help and according to that there should be a button but not on mine.

Has anyone else found this?

Also, since I know that everyone who signs up to this list really wants to be on it and I've tried to explain the process step by step so that it's easy for them it is worrying that so many of them fail to get it. I think this will be the same for any list (though not in the same numbers) and I'm sure that any list with double optin is losing lots of subscribers this same way, not because they don't really want to be on the list but because they don't understand the process at all.

Susan
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ak2000

14 years ago

Originally Posted by good2go4

If you are only using a single optin are you sending the customer to a sales page, or a free report page and does it make a difference in regards to effectiveness?

Both. The thank you page for the optin is a sales page + they get emailed a 6-day course on how to build a website and make money online (1 video part every day)

+ they get sent regular promotions once they are on the mailing list

Would think it's the most effective way, but haven't tested it the hard way...

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sueligu

14 years ago

opt in 1 (freebie) is to gather subscribers name on freebies stuff
opt in 2 (buyer list) is to gather name from opt in 1 who arewillingly to buy the product.

when subscriber opt in #2 their name in the opt in (freebie) will be removed. When you have more expensive product you want to offer, you can send message to subscribers in opt in 2 (buyer list) . This increases the success rate to push the higher value product. Instead of email to everyone in one list, some subscribers do not expect to receive so many offers and blacklist your message.

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Jesus Perez

14 years ago

I have 10+ years experience in this field and I've seen my share of "client email nightmares".

If you build a single optin list, and for some reason your email provider closes your account, you will not be able to migrate that single-optin list to any reputable provider. You will be stuck rebuilding the list from scratch at a new provider (sending double optins to existing users), using Chinese servers to blast out "straight to spam" emails or building your own private mail server (pain in the butt).

If you value your relationship and peace of mind with Aweber, GetResponse, etc, do not use single optin. It's simply not worth the few extra subscribers in the long run if your account is ever shut down.

Double optin lists can easily be imported to any reputable provider.

I understand there are some very reputable people claiming the benefits of single-optin in certain niches. But trust me, if they're ever banned and face the situation mentioned above, they will quickly change their minds in favor of double-optin.

Single optin subscribers can easily hit the same "spam" button like else. Without the added proof of a registered IP address, you're putting a major business asset at risk. Again...not worth the extra subscribers.

-Jesus

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ak2000

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BlueSquares

I have 10+ years experience in this field and I've seen my share of "client email nightmares".

If you build a single optin list, and for some reason your email provider closes your account, you will not be able to migrate that single-optin list to any reputable provider. You will be stuck rebuilding the list from scratch at a new provider (sending double optins to existing users), using Chinese servers to blast out "straight to spam" emails or building your own private mail server (pain in the butt).

If you value your relationship and peace of mind with Aweber, GetResponse, etc, do not use single optin. It's simply not worth the few extra subscribers in the long run if your account is ever shut down.

Double optin lists can easily be imported to any reputable provider.

I understand there are some very reputable people claiming the benefits of single-optin in certain niches. But trust me, if they're ever banned and face the situation mentioned above, they will quickly change their minds in favor of double-optin.

Single optin subscribers can easily hit the same "spam" button like else. Without the added proof of a registered IP address, you're putting a major business asset at risk. Again...not worth the extra subscribers.

-Jesus

Sorry if I'm being thick again, but how to you prove your list is double opt-in to your new AR company?

Would they just take a spreadsheet with an IP and a time for the double opt-in as enough?

Thanks

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LB

14 years ago

Why have most of the "gooroos" moved to single optin?

It's not because it makes them less money...

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Landis 14 years ago

Originally Posted by LB

Why have most of the "gooroos" moved to single optin?

It's not because it makes them less money...

really? alot of gurus are saying double optin because it weeds out the nonbuyers and qualifys the lead because they jumped through another hoop..
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Kevin Riley

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ak2000

Sorry if I'm being thick but if you're building a list why wood you ever set it on double optin rather than single?

Because that's the way I run my business. Quality - not quantity.

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Why would you ever build a list on double optin?

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