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GURUS - Come Out And Say It....

by lavidaloca
44 replies
Something tells me that the majority of the guru's don't make the majority of their money online....

There are freaking thousands of people on this forum and a TINY fraction makes big money every month (I assume it's the guru's).

I'm starting to think that the majority of the guru's own marketing companies that provide consultations to big clients and that creating online products contributes but a fraction of their revenue.

Many of us have products on the web. Some of us have ebooks, videos, scripts, while others operate services. However...I hardly doubt that those who have those things generate the obscene amounts of money that the guru's say they do. And the majority of people who bought $1000+ courses and implemented all the strategies never really see the outcome they desired.

Obviously I'm not going to get a response from any of the gurus and that's ok.

Somehow I'm getting the feeling that the Online Product Niche is getting saturated and we are being sold to over and over the same crap. They are getting rich...we are getting sold. And don't say it's not true either because you know it is.

Only the existing big dogs are able to dominate wealthy niches by using their extensive advertising capital. For the newbie it's near impossible to carve out a relatively large piece of the pie because lately it's becoming more and more difficult to get joint ventures with anyone that has enough fire power to get your off the ground. The gurus have each other now. If you don't have a killer new product...you can forget about it, because the gurus need to hold up their "reputation".

It dawned on me that to make yourself heard in the IM world you need to have a substantial amount of advertising capital before you start a project...seeing that you won't really get the big boys jumping on the wagon trying to assist you.

So if you are a noob, I suggest build up that capital. Or at least pitch your idea to a venture capitalist. That way you'll get enough money to at least put your foot in the door rather then crawling your way to some IM success.

I'm not saying that everyone is struggling. Not at all. There's definitely a handful that is making a decent income online....but it takes sweat and blood and a lot of time and the results don't compare to the million dollar gurus.

I would just like to hear your thoughts on this.

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Please, for those reading this now, the thread got some negativity.
I'm really sorry about that. Just take the post for what it is as well as see me as a human being with his own opinions. Again sorry. Love you all.
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#gurus
  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    Originally Posted by lavidaloca View Post


    Only the existing big dogs are able to dominate wealthy niches by using their extensive advertising capital. For the newbie it's near impossible to carve out a relatively large piece of the pie because lately it's becoming more and more difficult to get joint ventures with anyone that has enough fire power to get your off the ground.
    That's complete bollox.

    What it takes is hard work, determination and the ability to
    build meaningful long term relationships with the right people.

    To do that you need to have a well thought through plan and
    to implement that plan in a flexible and responsive manner.

    I've broken into several niche markets that were "dominated"
    by others until I showed up. Many of those big players were
    over confident and complacent.. I caught them off guard.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

      That's complete bollox.

      What it takes is hard work, determination and the ability to
      build meaningful long term relationships with the right people.

      To do that you need to have a well thought through plan and
      to implement that plan in a flexible and responsive manner.

      I've broken into several niche markets that were "dominated"
      by others until I showed up. Many of those big players were
      over confident and complacent.. I caught them off guard.

      John
      John

      Couldn't have said it better myself. I get truly sick and tired of lazy buggers who don't put in the effort and then cry the blues about not making any money online. Not saying that the OP is saying this for themselves, but they're definitely implying it.

      If folks would quit whining and put their backs into it, they'd be making good coin. It really isn't that difficult, especially if a technically-challenged dolt like me can do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
    What do Guru's, millionaires and champions hadve in common? And what is it that separates these people from intermediates and newbies... that are making maybe a 100K a year... or even 50K a year or nothing at all...

    1. Outsourcing
    2. Networking
    3. Reinvestment

    This is what makes them rich, and makes most poorer or at best moderate earners.

    As far as saturation is concerned.. Well as I always say... THE NEW BATCH IS COMING THROUGH... And your turn to makret to them and sell info to them..


    While most are super consumers, some are moderate consumers and moderate producers, Gurur's etc are super consumers AND producers...

    This is it!

    I have started the third component in the list above from this month and
    I know it works. Most people will never try that unless its the money they have made on the internet. And that's why it is so hard for them to make money... They have to get it ALL right before they make ANY money
    -Lakshay
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    • Profile picture of the author lavidaloca
      One constant thing that keeps popping up here is RELATIONSHIPS.

      I heard it a million times and I understand the importance of it.

      But here's the problem. Most US, UK & CANADIANS can build relationships easier. Seminars are closer and all the masterminds hang out at conferences which you can easily attend.

      But what about people very very far away from the action??
      The only way they can build a relationship is by talking over the phone (which in 90% of the cases you won't easily get a gurus number).

      There are several other ways to network, but let's be frank here...talking to a person face to face is far more effective.

      People far away simply don't have the same luxury and that is a fact.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
        Originally Posted by lavidaloca View Post


        There are several other ways to network, but let's be frank here...talking to a person face to face is far more effective.
        Who says that you can't take the initiative and set up a seminar
        or other type of event in a different part of the world?

        Instead of taking on the "poor me" attitude, start thinking about
        how YOU can make a difference through showing some leadership.

        "Think globally and act locally" is good advice.

        John
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        • Profile picture of the author lavidaloca
          Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

          Who says that you can't take the initiative and set up a seminar
          or other type of event in a different part of the world?

          Instead of taking on the "poor me" attitude, start thinking about
          how YOU can make a difference through showing some leadership.

          "Think globally and act locally" is good advice.

          John
          John, I'm not throwing the "poor me" attitude. As a matter of fact I make a lot of money from offline ventures. Please don't flame me, I'm just fishing for some professional opinions.

          I'm just trying to come some conclusion regarding the probability of success for newcomers to online product creation.
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          • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
            Originally Posted by lavidaloca View Post

            JPlease don't flame me, I'm just fishing for some professional opinions.
            Dude,

            That wasn't a flame.. that was a professional
            opinion.

            Try being open to those opinions.

            John
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            • Profile picture of the author lavidaloca
              Sorry about that, my apologies John.
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      • Profile picture of the author richdirtygirl
        Hi handsome!

        so... you are Hispanic, hum? Hispanic are HOT...

        you want to know what you can do? Show something, anything, that draws eyeballs toward you the right way... and then keep doing it and doing it... and doing it... the right way.

        BTW... this doesn't seem to be the right way...

        Why someone that is already THERE will want to JV with you?

        What do you have to bring to this table?

        What do you know that nobody else knows that will make a difference FOR THEM?

        How can you help others?

        Relationships is not about using people... it is about finding common places where everybody gets what they want... or at least a part of it...

        So... why don't you cool down that heat the way we both know ... and see all this again... there is a lot to learn here... people gave you their time, what is the most important thing we have...

        What is the best you have to give in return?

        Want to build relationships? this is your chance...

        RDG :p

        BTW... niches are not saturated. Niches are interests and new interests appear by the minute.
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  • Profile picture of the author MeTellYou
    If I can make money doing IM, then anyone can. Believe me. And if you can make some money, there is no way why you shouldn't make a lot of money. All you do is expand your business...

    Seba
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  • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
    lavidaloca, what can I say about that?

    I am far away and I have some pretty good contacts... Even with millionaires of the internet- The guru's etc...
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    • Profile picture of the author lavidaloca
      Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

      lavidaloca, what can I say about that?

      I am far away and I have some pretty good contacts... Even with millionaires of the internet- The guru's etc...
      India is also a pretty big IM place...sorry I forgot to mention that.
      But you're moving to the US right?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    If you want to build relationships it might be a good idea
    to put some detail into your warrior forum profile. You
    have a superb opportunity to build your credibility.. but
    you won't do that with an anonymous username and no
    personal information.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
    [quote=lavidaloca;213333]Something tells me that the majority of the guru's don't make the majority of their money online....

    There are freaking thousands of people on this forum and a TINY fraction makes big money every month (I assume it's the guru's).
    This is true in every business. But, this is a blanket statement that sounds a little offensive to people in this forum.

    I'm starting to think that the majority of the guru's own marketing companies that provide consultations to big clients and that creating online products contributes but a fraction of their revenue.
    O.k. let's assume this is the case. What's your point? Donald Trump is a real estate billionaire... he also makes money doing other things that award him a fractional income.

    Many of us have products on the web. Some of us have ebooks, videos, scripts, while others operate services. However...I hardly doubt that those who have those things generate the obscene amounts of money that the guru's say they do. And the majority of people who bought $1000+ courses and implemented all the strategies never really see the outcome they desired.
    Have you ever heard of Bill Bartman? He's a multibillionaire that is not as well known as Warren Buffet and Bill Gates. He's still a wealthy guy... even though many people don't know who he is.

    If that's not a good enough answer for you, think about this. Make a list of 100 billionaires names without looking them up. If you can do that, I would be shocked.

    You don't know how well anyone here is doing unless they tell you. There is a strong chance that there are marketers in this forum that make just as much if not more than the popular marketers.

    And as far as people not implementing strategies learned in a $1000 product to see the desired result. Well... maybe the result was not desired enough. Who knows?



    Obviously I'm not going to get a response from any of the gurus and that's ok.
    You shouldn't get a response from one of the guru's for this post. So it's a good thing that your o.k. with not receiving one.

    Somehow I'm getting the feeling that the Online Product Niche is getting saturated and we are being sold to over and over the same crap. They are getting rich...we are getting sold. And don't say it's not true either because you know it is.
    Do you watch movies? How many movies have you seen with the exact same actors and actresses in them? Do you like every movie that you see Robert Deniro in? I don't... but every once in a while he makes a movie that is very entertaining.

    Every industry is saturated to some extent with recycled goods. We live in a world filled with billions of people. Many of which work in saturated industries.

    The people that succeed are creative... They come up with new ideas. Maybe there are times that information gets recycled. But that doesn't matter because some people convey the information better than others.

    Only the existing big dogs are able to dominate wealthy niches by using their extensive advertising capital. For the newbie it's near impossible to carve out a relatively large piece of the pie because lately it's becoming more and more difficult to get joint ventures with anyone that has enough fire power to get your off the ground. The gurus have each other now. If you don't have a killer new product...you can forget about it, because the gurus need to hold up their "reputation".
    This statement is very untrue, unfair, and unrealistic. Are you suggesting that there will never be another newbie that eventually gets rich?

    It dawned on me that to make yourself heard in the IM world you need to have a substantial amount of advertising capital before you start a project...seeing that you won't really get the big boys jumping on the wagon trying to assist you.
    This is false. Have you heard Jason Moffat's story?

    So if you are a noob, I suggest build up that capital. Or at least pitch your idea to a venture capitalist. That way you'll get enough money to at least put your foot in the door rather then crawling your way to some IM success.
    Wow!

    I'm not saying that everyone is struggling. Not at all. There's definitely a handful that is making a decent income online....but it takes sweat and blood and a lot of time and the results don't compare to the million dollar gurus.
    This is the closest thing to correct that you have mentioned.

    I would just like to hear your thoughts on this.
    My thoughts are that this is a very negative post that should be deleted.
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  • Profile picture of the author lavidaloca
    Negative post?????
    So much for the WF being a place of recommendations and suggestions. I didn't intend to rub people up the wrong way, you are just reading my post in a negative way.
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    • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
      Originally Posted by lavidaloca View Post

      Negative post?????
      So much for the WF being a place of recommendations and suggestions. I didn't intend to rub people up the wrong way, you are just reading my post in a negative way.
      First, you should not judge the entire forum based on what I had to say. I speak for myself.

      And, I do think that your post is negative.

      So to restore your faith in the forum, I will give you my recommendation and a suggestion.

      Recommendation
      I recommend that you should always re-read your posts before you hit submit.

      Suggestion(even though this is the same thing as a recommendation)
      I suggest that you spend more time making friends here. And if you do happen to rub someone the wrong way... just kindly apologize If it wasn't your intention to do so.

      Let me make this clear. I don't know you... you are probably a nice person. So I'm not trying to start a beef with you.

      You asked for feedback in your initial post... so that's what I gave you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      And don't say it's not true either because you know it is.
      What a lovely logical argument.

      The paragraph that sentence came from is what made a reasonably stated, but incorrect, post sound negative.

      I quoted that part because it makes clear that, when you wrote the post, you had made up your mind and that you were not interested in hearing any possible alternative perspectives.
      So much for the WF being a place of recommendations and suggestions.
      I'll let you figure out for yourself what that sentence communicates to the other people here.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
        LOL - I think someone once said making money and making excuses are mutually exclusive. You can't have both happening at the same time.

        Fabian
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        • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
          Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

          LOL - I think someone once said making money and making excuses are mutually exclusive. You can't have both happening at the same time.

          Fabian
          I like that quote.

          I'm saving that one...

          There are several instances daily where that would be nice to throw down...

          -Chris
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        • Profile picture of the author tomw
          Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

          LOL - I think someone once said making money and making excuses are mutually exclusive. You can't have both happening at the same time.

          Fabian
          Great quote! I'm with Chris...I may have to steal this and use it as my own...especially with certain clients

          Thanks!

          Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross Goldberg
    Vida - your preception of the "gurus" disturbs me quite a bit.

    I'm friends with some of the biggest guns in online marketing and you are wrong about most of them.

    Most of them are big in "internet marketing", but have rocking niche businesses, too.

    They teach marketing because you can make large amounts of money fast and they have the knowledge to help others.

    Most of the gurus I know make more in niche markets, yet do this to continue helping others.

    Yes, there are a lot of rehashed garbage products, but there are also people like Paul Myers and numerous others that refuse to run with the pack and create reports, books, videos, and other training that can change your life and your business.

    Most gurus start with zero capital, that's the beauty of working online, you don't need huge money to get started.

    Your perception is based from the eyes of a consumer, while that is effective for you personally, sharing it with a group (especially a group like the people at this forum) is not very wise. Most of the very gurus you are referring to have already read your post and found it unworthy of their time to post on it. Remove your blinders and look at these gurus as people. Then, you might have some different ideas.

    Take a deeper look into people with titles before you go throwing ideas that simply aren't true.

    (no venom or nastiness here, just my honest opinion)
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  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    Ninety-nine percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses.
    ~~George Washington Carver



    John
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    • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
      Here's another suggestion:

      You should reply with a "my bad."

      It's not hard to do. And, it doesn't make you look like less of a man.

      Clearly, more than one person read your post and saw the same negativity that I saw.

      You can learn and make a lot of money in this forum. Why screw that up?

      Just clean this up before you tarnish your credibility.
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  • Profile picture of the author lavidaloca
    Well guys, I'm sorry about this post. So yes...MY BAD.
    Maybe I got trigger happy. I'll try to refrain from dropping emotions in a thread.

    Please forgive me.
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    • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
      Originally Posted by lavidaloca View Post

      Well guys, I'm sorry about this post. So yes...MY BAD.
      Maybe I got trigger happy. I'll try to refrain from dropping emotions in a thread.

      Please forgive me.
      I think that you deserve every ones respect in this thread.

      Take care!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    Your take on forming relationships is somewhat off base. I agree that many times a face to face is perhaps the fastest way to form a relationship, but you can do it online through Skype and other forms of online communication.

    You have only been a member here since September 2008 and have 47 post counting what you posted here. It's difficult to form a lasting relationship in such a short time span.

    BTW I make what in your country is considered a very good income from IM by a lot of your countrymen. Here in the U.S. it's not a lot of money, but it enables me to reinvest and grow my business every month.

    Suggestion: Form relationships. Work hard at it. When you do you may find yourself talking with the next guru. Are better yet a mentor who will work with you on a day to day basis to grow your business.

    Reality: That's what happened to me a mentor. That came about from a relationship, which came from this very forum and from being one of his customers. His and my relationship has a 7 hour time difference and we have never met face to face. Yet we make it work.

    Other relationships, which help me with my business, span the globe. I'm talking about some folks who don't call themselves guru's but many others consider them that. So your argument about distance and having face to face meeting's does not hold up. Especially when you have access to the Internet like you do. You may not like to hear it, but man it's just an excuse on your part.

    Please take what you hear today with an open mind. Evaluate it, use what you can and move forward.

    Ken
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      But what about people very very far away from the action??
      The only way they can build a relationship is by talking over the phone (which in 90% of the cases you won't easily get a gurus number).
      Au, contraire, mon frere.

      You want the fast course in developing relationships with people you may never meet in person, or even speak to on the phone/Skype/whatever?

      Here it is.

      Learn to laugh and to listen. Look for ways to improve the lives of the people you interact with. Know when each is appropriate, and, when you do them, do them sincerely and without reservation.

      End of lesson.

      (I said it would be fast, didn't I?)

      That'll be $97, please.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    Originally Posted by lavidaloca View Post

    If you don't have a killer new product...you can forget about it, because the gurus need to hold up their "reputation".
    So you think that people with a big list they've spent years building should promote your crappy product because....?


    This post is just complete garbage.

    I can't think of a single internet marketing "guru" who started out with a "big advertising budget" and since most advertising online is pay per click and similar pay as you go advertising I can't even see how having a huge budget could help.

    If you want to be successful in any niche online or offline you simply have to put in the hard yards.

    If you're not prepared to do that then business is just not for you.

    The other common trait the successful internet marketers I know have...

    THEY WORKED THEIR ARSES OFF.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh

    P.S. On a more positive note your post infers that if you do CREATE A KILLER NEW PRODUCT you should be able to get some joint ventures with gurus who have really large lists.

    There's a clue in there about being successful online but I can't quite work it out.

    Perhaps you can do that yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author lavidaloca
    Seems I hit a nerve in this thread. Geeze guys I'm so sorry!
    Isn't there something positive that can come from this thread in stead of the bashing???
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    • Profile picture of the author Susan Hope
      Originally Posted by lavidaloca View Post

      Seems I hit a nerve in this thread. Geeze guys I'm so sorry!
      Isn't there something positive that can come from this thread in stead of the bashing???
      Something positive to come from this thread:

      You learnt something, I learnt something and I dare say a few others did too.

      And if you are not simply being sarcastic in your apology then you have gained a small amount of respect from me, which was not there when I started reading this thread, why?

      Because you have at least shown you can learn, be big enough to apologise when you make some kind of mistake and because you have shown some "kahuna's" (sp?) because you did not slink off when you realized you made a mistake and there are people in this thread who could so easily eat you for breakfast if they so chose too.

      Sue

      Later Edit after reading you latest reponses - respect because you have a sense of humor - humor goes a long way..
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Originally Posted by lavidaloca View Post

      Seems I hit a nerve in this thread. Geeze guys I'm so sorry!
      Isn't there something positive that can come from this thread in stead of the bashing???
      Hey man, don't take it personally and actually, although I thought your post was ludicrous, I want to stand by you a little because I do feel that some folks do get wrapped on the knuckles here when they don't really deserve it.

      The way I see it is that you've obviously been introduced to online marketing by "self confessed gurus" that lead you the wrong way and sell you crap.

      Either way, it seems you've mistakingly developed a slanted and false view of what it really takes to become successful online and I DON'T BLAME YOU FOR WRITING THIS POST AS A RESULT.

      I think everyone that has responded is dead right, but the fact is I can see where you're coming from and why you might have posted this.

      It's because of the downright con artists amongst the genuine teachers in this industry that can drive someone in a desperate situation who just wants some honest direction into a state of frustration and naivety.

      Just hang back and check out the vast amount of advice from some real business owners and don't rush out to buy the latest trick to online success.

      You'll soon develop a skill for finding out who's legit and what it really takes to make it online, which will be a far cry from your current view I can assure you.

      Either way, I think you deserve break and people need to understand why posts like this occur in the first place and chill out a bit.

      This is a passionate forum and with great advice I think we all need tough skin, blinkers off and the ability to find the truth in what we read.
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  • Profile picture of the author lavidaloca
    What's your paypal ;-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      What's your paypal ;-)
      Bravo! A quick study!

      Think about this... With that one humorous and un-self-conscious response, you probably just wiped out any negative feelings anyone might have had about you over this thread. (Which wasn't a big deal anyway. It's not like you were vicious or insulting or anything.)

      Just remember those three things, and you'll find that business - and life - gets a lot easier.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    Since Paul hasn't sent his yet here's mine. laughalot @ enjoylife.com

    Now your getting in the spirit.

    Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author lavidaloca
    Well I'm glad. I actually did learn something. Paul, Imran,Andrew,Ken,marc,john,ross,kevin,chris and fabian actually replied. I got bit of a spanking though, but definitely know now that there has to be something to the online world for people to stand up for it to such a degree!

    Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Well I'm glad. I actually did learn something.
      What did you think the listening part was for? =};-}=-

      Well, okay, it does more than that, but that's a nice side effect...


      Paul

      (Where the hell is the "bearded guy in a cowboy hat" smiley? Huh?)
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  • Profile picture of the author L.B
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Let me tell you something mister.

      I made $28 my first 5 months online.

      I had NO help from NOBODY.

      So I put my nose to the grindstone and worked my butt off.

      Today I make a 6 figure a year income with NO HELP.

      Hell, I don't even have affiliates promoting my products AND I do it spending
      almost NO MONEY AT ALL.

      I am the CHEAPEST SOB ON THIS PLANET.

      And I still make a nice income.

      So your post is so full of BS and nonsense that I just lost my appetite
      for breakfast.

      Go get a clue if you can scrounge up enough sense to buy one.

      ** NOTE ** I put aside the kinder and gentler me for this post because
      this is the kind of crap that makes me want to scream.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Let me tell you something mister.

        I made $28 my first 5 months online.

        I had NO help from NOBODY.

        So I put my nose to the grindstone and worked my butt off.

        Today I make a 6 figure a year income with NO HELP.

        Hell, I don't even have affiliates promoting my products AND I do it spending
        almost NO MONEY AT ALL.

        I am the CHEAPEST SOB ON THIS PLANET.

        And I still make a nice income.

        So your post is so full of BS and nonsense that I just lost my appetite
        for breakfast.

        Go get a clue if you can scrounge up enough sense to buy one.

        ** NOTE ** I put aside the kinder and gentler me for this post because
        this is the kind of crap that makes me want to scream.

        Steven, you are late to the party. I would try to read the whole thread before responding.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Let me tell you something mister.

        I made $28 my first 5 months online.

        I had NO help from NOBODY.

        So I put my nose to the grindstone and worked my butt off.

        Today I make a 6 figure a year income with NO HELP.

        Hell, I don't even have affiliates promoting my products AND I do it spending
        almost NO MONEY AT ALL.

        I am the CHEAPEST SOB ON THIS PLANET.

        And I still make a nice income.

        So your post is so full of BS and nonsense that I just lost my appetite
        for breakfast.

        Go get a clue if you can scrounge up enough sense to buy one.

        ** NOTE ** I put aside the kinder and gentler me for this post because
        this is the kind of crap that makes me want to scream.
        Chill out Steven! The guy apologized more than once and I really don't think he needs any more abuse. If you look at my post, you'll see that there's a reason behind why he might come to such a conclusion in the first place, even though I agree he's totally off base, we've all been in that starter block where many of us get misled and led down the wrong path.

        I think that might be the case with this guy and I genuinely think he'd benefit from some serious advice from the authorative marketers amongst us, instead of being told he's full of crap.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Nick,

          Don't make me bring out the redneck side.

          Apply the same listening skills to Steven's post that you did to Mr Anonymous's comments, and you'll see that there's actually MORE to learn from Steven's than any of the others in this thread. At least there is for the new guy.

          You'll also understand why Steven feels the way he does, which is as right as lavidaloca's stance.


          Paul
          Signature
          .
          Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

          Chill out Steven! The guy apologized more than once and I really don't think he needs any more abuse. If you look at my post, you'll see that there's a reason behind why he might come to such a conclusion in the first place, even though I agree he's totally off base, we've all been in that starter block where many of us get misled and led down the wrong path.

          I think that might be the case with this guy and I genuinely think he'd benefit from some serious advice from the authorative marketers amongst us, instead of being told he's full of crap.
          Nick, forgive me for not reading this whole thread but I only have so many
          hours in my day.

          Having said that, okay, I will try to offer some constructive advice here.

          1. Before you even think about contacting anybody, have a solid game
          plan in place. In other words, sit down and decide HOW you want to go
          about making your online living. This includes niche research and a number
          of other things. You probably don't know where to even start in this area,
          so...you need to get a basic education at minimum.

          There are 2 ways you can go about this. The first is to get a hold of what
          is considered a solid book or collection of books on the subject. Ask around
          here. You'll get many opinions. I personally think Nitro Marketing Blueprint
          is the best all around course from ground zero out ther.

          The second way is to get a mentor. Somebody who will walk you through
          the whole process of building a business from the ground floor up. This
          won't come cheap but if this person knows his stuff, it WILL be worth it.

          2. Do NOT start off in the make money online niche. Tackle a non IM niche
          and make your money in it. This will give you more credibility than anything
          else. I did things totally ass backwards. Today, I finally got into non IM
          niches and I'm doing very well in them with a lot less work. The make money
          niche is a killer if you're first starting out.

          3. After you have made a name for yourself outside of IM, THEN you have
          some leverage. You can start to contact others for JVs and partnerships.
          My suggestion is to contact others who are in the same place as you.
          That way you can build your own "All boys network". How do you think
          these guys did it? They didn't start off as big names.

          I realize that this is a very general outline and in between all the numbers
          are a lot of dots that have to be connected and a lot of work to do. It
          took me years to get where I am, but I was clueless and didn't even know
          where to go for help. You're already at the best forum on the planet so
          you've got a head start over me that should have you earning what I earn
          in a fraction of the time IF you put the work in.

          Listen to those here who know what the hell they're talking about. I'm a
          hot head so don't pay too much attention to what I have to say.

          But please take the above advice to heart.

          Good luck with your adventure.

          And make no mistake about it...that's just what this is.

          ** EDIT ** PS...I just got my first infraction here. I'm surprised it took
          me this long.

          It was most certainly deserved. I'm sorry.
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          • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Nick, forgive me for not reading this whole thread but I only have so many
            hours in my day.

            Having said that, okay, I will try to offer some constructive advice here.

            1. Before you even think about contacting anybody, have a solid game
            plan in place. In other words, sit down and decide HOW you want to go
            about making your online living. This includes niche research and a number
            of other things. You probably don't know where to even start in this area,
            so...you need to get a basic education at minimum.

            There are 2 ways you can go about this. The first is to get a hold of what
            is considered a solid book or collection of books on the subject. Ask around
            here. You'll get many opinions. I personally think Nitro Marketing Blueprint
            is the best all around course from ground zero out ther.

            The second way is to get a mentor. Somebody who will walk you through
            the whole process of building a business from the ground floor up. This
            won't come cheap but if this person knows his stuff, it WILL be worth it.

            2. Do NOT start off in the make money online niche. Tackle a non IM niche
            and make your money in it. This will give you more credibility than anything
            else. I did things totally ass backwards. Today, I finally got into non IM
            niches and I'm doing very well in them with a lot less work. The make money
            niche is a killer if you're first starting out.

            3. After you have made a name for yourself outside of IM, THEN you have
            some leverage. You can start to contact others for JVs and partnerships.
            My suggestion is to contact others who are in the same place as you.
            That way you can build your own "All boys network". How do you think
            these guys did it? They didn't start off as big names.

            I realize that this is a very general outline and in between all the numbers
            are a lot of dots that have to be connected and a lot of work to do. It
            took me years to get where I am, but I was clueless and didn't even know
            where to go for help. You're already at the best forum on the planet so
            you've got a head start over me that should have you earning what I earn
            in a fraction of the time IF you put the work in.

            Listen to those here who know what the hell they're talking about. I'm a
            hot head so don't pay too much attention to what I have to say.

            But please take the above advice to heart.

            Good luck with your adventure.

            And make no mistake about it...that's just what this is.

            ** EDIT ** PS...I just got my first infraction here. I'm surprised it took
            me this long.

            It was most certainly deserved. I'm sorry.
            Now THERE'S our old Steven back ;-)
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              While I'm here, let me give you a tip on niche research, because this is
              probably the most crucial part of your whole business. If you try to sell
              something that nobody wants, you can't sell it.

              So, here are some tips for doing niche research after you decide what
              market you want to tackle.

              1. Go to forums in that niche. These are easy enough to find. Just go to
              Google and type in "name of niche" + "Forum" and you should get a pretty
              big list. Some niches that are small don't have forums. That's another thing.
              People worry about too much competition. Bull Cookies. If there is a niche
              out there that has tons of competition that means there is also a HUGE
              hungry market for it. Don't be afraid of competition. If you have a great
              product and a great offer, you'll make your money.

              2. If the forums allow signatures, don't start off by trying to sell anything
              in them. What I've done, and this works great, is put a link saying "Tell
              Me What You're Looking For In <niche problem>". Have the link lead to
              a page where you have a survey form. There are plenty of free survey
              tools online that can do the job just fine. If you can't afford hosting, some
              of these tools will work on free blogs that you can get at Blogger or
              Wordpress. Have these people fill out the survey. Offer to send them your
              first product based on their response either at a reduced price or free. Yes,
              free. This way you can get some great testimonials.

              3. After you've done enough research to find out what these people want
              and IF they are willing to pay for it (one of the survey questions should
              be "how much would you pay for this?") then you can start putting your
              product together. If you don't have enough knowledge about the topic
              to begin with, you can either do some studying or hire somebody to write
              the book for you. It'll cost you some bucks, but a great ghost writer can
              put together a killer product for you. Our own Tiffany Dow is a master
              writer for the gurus.

              Okay, I'm going to offer one last piece of what I'll call my "personal opinion"
              though I am sure many will not agree with it.

              I believe with all my heart that the most important skill you could ever
              master is writing and communication. Think about it. Almost EVERYTHING
              you do in marketing comes down to this. Your sales pages, your products,
              your squeeze pages, your articles, even your 3 line Adwords ads require
              some writing skill...not to mention the emails you'll have to send to your
              prospects and customers. If you can't at least become competent at this
              skill, you're going to be at the mercy of copywriters, article writers, ghost
              writers and ad writers your whole life. And that can run into a lot of money.

              So work on your writing...It is the most important thing you can do.

              Hope this helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
      Lavidaloca, this is for you, so I hope you read it....

      I'll put this in perspective - mine at least.

      In Direct Marketing there are only 3 possible advantages
      you can offer your prospects that will get them to buy.
      If your product has none of these advantages you'll struggle
      to grab a share of the market.

      Just 3.


      Price, Exclusivity, and Service.

      Price.
      If you can offer the same goods the prospect wants to
      buy at a lower price you'll get interest. Some of
      the great direct marketing fortunes were built on
      price appeal - usually having to do with economy of
      scale in manufacturing durable goods and food. Of
      course you would have to convince your buyers that
      what they are getting isn't substandard crap. Same
      thing with digital products - drop the price too
      much and people assume you are selling garbage.

      Exclusivity.
      Do you think there is a reason that people jump at
      the opportunity to pay thousands of dollars for
      information products? It's exclusivity, having
      something other people cannot have - association
      with people they admire and look up to - which,
      as strange as it is, is something people do to
      people who have more money... like powerful promoters -
      Gurus, as you call them.

      You can make any product/service exclusive but
      obviously you have to back up your claims.

      Service.
      This is where YOU, the little guy, can compete.
      The so-called gurus are buried in customer service
      issues - so they have to outsource them to low
      paid employees who don't alwasy do a good job.

      If you were to offer true superior service you would
      have an advantage.

      _______________________________________________

      To a large extent the goal of any direct marketing
      business (which is all of us here) is to get a
      Genuine Economic Advantage - meaning you have such
      a good long-term profit system on the back-end -
      upselling and client-retention - that you can afford
      to lose more money than the competition on the front
      end costs of getting the customers.

      Yeah, you ARE fighting an uphill battle against
      entrenched, better financed competition, but YOU
      CAN WIN! by choosing to compete by out-servicing
      the larger competition with a narrower niche
      market.

      That's a little obscure.

      The best way I know to start to understand how to
      compete is to talk to your potential customers...
      on the phone is best. Email and blog responses
      are pale in comparison because some of your best
      data will come from people who only open up on
      the phone - and even then it takes some skill to
      get that to happen - it's called persuasion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    "Something tells you" stop listening to it, because it doesn't know what it is saying.

    My advertising costs are around $100 a year, so I don't think you need to maintain a high advertising budget.

    I am in a place where there aren't too many IMers. But, I have no problem talking to people. It is called building relationship, doing things for people without expecting anything back.

    I can contact a number of gurus if I want, I use skype and so could you.

    One guru asked for help a couple of times here on the forum. The majority of people said, it's a guru they won't want to hear from me. Or if someone is going to give the guru what they asked for, then maybe they will give me the same freebie. I saw one of these requests and it was days after it had been made. Most people were saying I want to know that as well. I knew the answer, and so contacted the person. Result contact with a guru. I know someone else here who did exactly the same thing with the same guru when he asked for help.

    My suggestion would be instead of finding all the problems and believing that nobody would be interested in partnering with you, look for the solution.
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