Copywright : how does work I do gets a copywright ?

14 years ago

Hi Phillipe,

I am not a lawyer, but this is my understanding. Copyright exists from the moment of creation. As soon as it's written down, it's copyrighted. However, you could register the copyright, but it isn't necessary in most cases. Though it may help if you would ever choose to sue somebody for infringement.

Also, you can use the copyright symbol whether you register the copyright or not. However, you can't say it's a registered copyright, unless it's registered.

All the best,
Michael

p.s I am not a lawyer.

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Dan C. Rinnert

14 years ago

Originally Posted by phmoisan

Let's say I write an eBook. Does it get automatically a copywright, or do I have to submit it to some authority, government, or something ?

What will be the country of first publication?

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Jill Carpenter

14 years ago

A way to prove a "poor man's " copyright is to mail the item to yourself - be sure to get a post mark on it, and when you receive it, don't open it!

Keep it sealed.

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Dan C. Rinnert

14 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

A way to prove a "poor man's " copyright is to mail the item to yourself - be sure to get a post mark on it, and when you receive it, don't open it!

Keep it sealed.

How would they know you didn't mail unsealed or lightly sealed empty envelopes to yourself, stuff them with something else at a later date and then seal them?

It's too easy to fake and, as such, is likely to be considered too unreliable as evidence in a court of law.

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Jill Carpenter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

How would they know you didn't mail unsealed or lightly sealed empty envelopes to yourself, stuff them with something else at a later date and then seal them?

It's too easy to fake and, as such, is likely to be considered too unreliable as evidence in a court of law.

Well, if you send it in a fed-ex type envelope or something that has to have a string pulled to open you'll be just fine.

This method was taught to me by 2 different instructors. It's valid, and will hold up in a court of law. Don't mess with the US postal service!

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Dan C. Rinnert 14 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

Well, if you send it in a fed-ex type envelope or something that has to have a string pulled to open you'll be just fine.

Same thing. You could lightly seal them, using a temporary double-sided tape and not exposing the tape on the actual envelope until you're ready to stuff it with documents at a later date.

This method was taught to me by 2 different instructors. It's valid, and will hold up in a court of law. Don't mess with the US postal service!

Were they able to cite any court cases where this has been used successfully?
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schabotte 14 years ago

Copyright exists once an idea is expressed in tangible form. It used to be different but the newer laws (from a few decades ago) have made the existence of copyright much easier.

Here is the thing though...

If someone steals your work, are you financially able to do anything about it?

In the early 2000's, I had someone steal some perl based software I created and was selling. I had all the proof of the theft and took it all to a copyright attorney. He looked it over and said there is definitely copyright infringement and I would win in court if it came to that. He then said getting to court would cost 25-50 thousand dollars depending on the actions of the other party.

There were of course less costly options available like cease and desist orders, having the hosting company shut them down, etc... but the end result was that I was a small business and they were a small business so there was no way I would recoup my investment in legal fees so I ended up just letting it drop, invested in a way to protect the perl source code and added some more innovations... and then later sold the software to a friend who took it to the next level.
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gjabiz 14 years ago

Originally Posted by cosmokid

This offers you real protection in a court of law.

You can quickly register your material online at the Library of Congress site:

U.S. Copyright Office

First off, legal disclaimer, I am NOT an attorney nor is this legal advice.

Second, everyone should read schabotte's post. IF you've never been involved in Copyright litigation let me set the record straight.

A copyright as well as a patent or trademark gives you the right to DEFEND yourself, it does not "protect" you in any way. Every good IP Lawyer you talk to will tell you of the COSTS involved and the many times of LOSING too.

Even if you get a judgement, SOMETIMES (again, not legal advice) it is impossible to collect on it because the other guy goes out of business or has a wall of defense which is unable to be penetrated.

That being said. IF you have something worth while you absolutely SHOULD get all the i's dotted and t's crossed LEGALLY and get your stuff registered and RETAIN an attorney, one who specializes in IP LAW, not your divorce lawyer, and know and understand your right to defend your propery can get very costly.

Also, ask your IP attorney about INSURANCE for protecting your property, it is available and depending on the "value" (a whole nutter issue), you can have your legal fees covered by the insurance in the case where you have to go to court.

My OPINION, and this is NOT a legal one, is, most of you are worried about nothing, your Property is going to be stolen, used, mistreated and unless you have deep pockets to defend it, and it is worthy of defending, you might want to build a less "legal" wall of defense, such as linking the work to you and your brand so inextricably that it would be impossible for someone else to profit from it.

You won't see anyone call themselves TRUMP anything, not only because the Donald has the pockets and attornies, but mainly because he has so deftly BRANDED himself.

Good luck.

Again, read schabotte's post, and if you have any doubts, spend 100 bux and consult with an IP attorney on the phone for 5 minutes and have her confirm or disclaim your "I thought" thoughts.

gjabiz
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Scott Kennedy

14 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

Well, if you send it in a fed-ex type envelope or something that has to have a string pulled to open you'll be just fine.

This method was taught to me by 2 different instructors. It's valid, and will hold up in a court of law. Don't mess with the US postal service!

As soon as it's opened however, the copyright is voided. Hence the poor mans copyright name.

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Jill Carpenter 14 years ago

Ok Dan, I stand corrected. I did however get this information from script writing classes taken back in the 90's. LOL, just when you think you have some insider information and instructors you can trust. Oh well.

Poor Man's Copyright seems to bring up some interesting points.

(wow, I feel like I just got spanked :p)
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Istvan Horvath

14 years ago

Philippe,

take a look at this: Canadian Intellectual Property Office - A Guide to Copyrights (page 3 of 10)
or rather this one

http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/ci...a/wr02395.html

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asphotographymk

14 years ago

As a photographer when i create some work (or take a photograph) i automatically own the copyright of that image. I can prove it was taken by me by keeping the original raw file. I guess keeping all originals is the closest to proof.

I think if someone really wanted to steal something they could. Lets face it the movie and music industry is a multi-million one and people get away with stealing that every day.

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fitz10

14 years ago

As someone who writes professionally on occasion for print publications I have heard that Jill's method is supposed to work within the US. That being said, if you're uncomfortable with this holding legal water you may register with the US Copyright office for a nominal fee via ECO. I think US and non-US citizens can do this, but if your work will primarily be for a non-US audience I would investigate other options that may be more applicable to your situation.

Technically though, if you create it it's yours. Copyright only becomes a problem when someone else tries to steal your work and you have no way of proving it was originally yours.

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Dan C. Rinnert

14 years ago

Originally Posted by fitz10

As someone who writes professionally on occasion for print publications I have heard that Jill's method is supposed to work within the US.

Please cite one court case where it has worked within the U.S.

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fitz10

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

Please cite one court case where it has worked within the U.S.

Dan, I don't have one and that's why I added the caveat that it may not hold water in an actual court and suggested registering with eCO. I just meant to imply that I've had other writers and editors tell me the same thing as Jill.

The best way for the OP to handle this would be to check directly with the CO rather than listening to non-legal people like me.

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Dan C. Rinnert

14 years ago

Originally Posted by fitz10

Dan, I don't have one and that's why I added the caveat that it may not hold water in an actual court and suggested registering with eCO. I just meant to imply that I've had other writers and editors tell me the same thing as Jill.

And, I'd bet that not one of them could cite a single court case either.

The notion of a "poor man's copyright", at least in the U.S., is a myth.

The best way for the OP to handle this would be to check directly with the CO rather than listening to non-legal people like me.

Here is what the U.S. Copyright Office says:
"I've heard about a "poor man's copyright." What is it?
The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is sometimes called a "poor man's copyright." There is no provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of protection, and it is not a substitute for registration."

Source: U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright in General (FAQ)

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fitz10

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

Here is what the U.S. Copyright Office says:
"I've heard about a "poor man's copyright." What is it?
The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is sometimes called a "poor man's copyright." There is no provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of protection, and it is not a substitute for registration."

Source: U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright in General (FAQ)

Well there you go, OP. Dan is right on this.

A good demonstration actually on how inaccurate some persistently passed around information is, even by professionals in the field.

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Dan C. Rinnert

14 years ago

Originally Posted by fitz10

A good demonstration actually on how inaccurate some persistently passed around information is, even by professionals in the field.

I used to believe it too. It just seems like a common sense solution, which is possibly why the myth has become so widespread. It's just something that makes sense.

Unfortunately, upon close examination, you can see how it doesn't really work. For one, it is too easy to fake. To really prove it, you'd have to have witnesses for you stuffing and sealing the envelope. Then you'd likely need the testimony of the person who stamped the postmark (if it was a person who did it) to confirm that they did indeed stamp the postmark and that the postmark wasn't faked. And then prove the envelope wasn't tampered with after all of that.

By the time you go through all that, it would have been cheaper just to pay the copyright registration fee.

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Nutrifitness

14 years ago

hi
timely subject thanks for posting. does anyone know if someone copies 99% of your book title on the same subject if this would fall under copywrie laws? It seems that it would to me as it cuases confusion in the mind of the consumer and really stealing the book title in essence...?
thank you for any feedback

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Dan C. Rinnert

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Nutrifitness

hi
timely subject thanks for posting. does anyone know if someone copies 99% of your book title on the same subject if this would fall under copywrie laws? It seems that it would to me as it cuases confusion in the mind of the consumer and really stealing the book title in essence...?
thank you for any feedback

Book titles cannot be copyrighted.

Trademarking is a possibility though but there are conditions that must be met for a title to be able to be trademarked.

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Nutrifitness

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

Book titles cannot be copyrighted.

Trademarking is a possibility though but there are conditions that must be met for a title to be able to be trademarked.

So you can have a book called for example purposes.."Best Bet:the ultimate book of IM advertising" (ii know not creative but an ex) and someone else can have a book :"The ulitimate book of IM advertising" ? on the same exact subject matter? and this clearly causes confusion to consumer plus uses exact words of title except 2(best bet in example above)

I do not see how that is not protected by copyright laws....but you seem to know..
so eveywhere they use the term "the ultimate book of IM advertising", including in their domain ,website, book is fine even though the subject of book is exact!...wow...
that is boarderline sleeezy at best

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Dan C. Rinnert

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Nutrifitness

So you can have a book called for example purposes.."Best Bet:the ultimate book of IM advertising" (ii know not creative but an ex) and someone else can have a book :"The ulitimate book of IM advertising" ? on the same exact subject matter? and this clearly causes confusion to consumer plus uses exact words of title except 2(best bet in example above)

I do not see how that is not protected by copyright laws....but you seem to know..
so eveywhere they use the term "the ultimate book of IM advertising", including in their domain ,website, book is fine even though the subject of book is exact!...wow...
that is boarderline sleeezy at best

From the U.S. Copyright Office:
"How do I copyright a name, title, slogan or logo?
Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases. In some cases, these things may be protected as trademarks. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information. However, copyright protection may be available for logo artwork that contains sufficient authorship. In some circumstances, an artistic logo may also be protected as a trademark."
Source: U.S. Copyright Office - What Does Copyright Protect? (FAQ)

Here is some info on trademarking book titles:
Trademark Basics (Trademark Registration and Advice; Trademark Searches and Opinions, Protecting*Book*Titles and Literary Characters, Responding to Office Actions, Brand Building)

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NatureElf

14 years ago

I am glad I found this thread. I have been wondering about this for some time and was not sure where to find out. Thanks all.

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