Here's How You Can KILL The Competition Stone Cold... Without Fail.

32 replies
Step 1. Create a better version of a product or service than your competitors
Step 2. Give it away for free
Step 3. Once all your competitors go out of business, see step 4
Step 4. Introduce revenue generators... advertising, premium models, upsells, crosssells, downsells.

It's been done before, and it can - and will - be done again.

Want an example? PlentyOfFish.com

The world's biggest dating site, with the most traffic and users.

Markus' success was down to this same formula. He has openly admitted it in several interviews.

He started out by offering what everyone else was - and still is - charging for. Now he's a multi millionaire, and generates revenue through contextual advertising.

Irresistible, in demand product for free = competitors cannot compete

Less competition = more traffic/market share

More traffic/market share = lots of money.

Simples.
#cold #competition #fail #kill #stone
  • Profile picture of the author Davioli
    Love the strategy. It's what I've done and continue doing.
    Also love the "simples" at the end. Reminds me of the "compare the meerkat" campaign..
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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    Putting your competitors out of business is going to require getting in front of your prospects---which requires advertising---which requires money.

    It's not that easy. There's plenty of cheap/free SEO info for example and look at the 2k course that just sold.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Pawlett
      Originally Posted by LB View Post

      Putting your competitors out of business is going to require getting in front of your prospects---which requires advertising---which requires money.
      Sorry LB I would have to respectfully disagree, putting your competiors out of business requires getting in front of THEIR prospects.

      With the advent of social media (likes of Facebook etc) if you have a very similar product with more value and it's free, then massive amounts of word of mouth traffic can be generated very quickly and cheaply.

      Kind regards

      John
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      • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
        Originally Posted by LB View Post

        Putting your competitors out of business is going to require getting in front of your prospects---which requires advertising---which requires money.

        It's not that easy.
        It's not always easy, but who ever said it was?

        However, it's also not that hard. Who says you have to advertise to reach customers?

        Markus (PlentyOfFish.com) didn't.

        Word of mouth, viral campaigns, SEO... these things are more than enough to launch a business and start the snowball.

        It takes work, but what most people don't realize is that with a good product, the marketing kinda takes care of itself.

        The problem is, most people don't have a good product.

        If you think SEO companies can't use free to kill their competition, then try a different angle.

        HINT - It's not your SEO services that should be offered for free.
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        • Profile picture of the author hireava
          Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

          It's not always easy, but who ever said it was?

          However, it's also not that hard. Who says you have to advertise to reach customers?

          Markus (PlentyOfFish.com) didn't.

          Word of mouth, viral campaigns, SEO... these things are more than enough to launch a business and start the snowball.

          It takes work, but what most people don't realize is that with a good product, the marketing kinda takes care of itself.

          The problem is, most people don't have a good product.

          If you think SEO companies can't use free to kill their competition, then try a different angle.

          HINT - It's not your SEO services that should be offered for free.
          you're definitely right, "word of the mouth" advertising is one of the most effective way to enhance our product's visibility towards other people, and it can only be done if we have better products or services thab our competitors.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    No need to shoot the messenger - I think LB had a good point and was right to call you on it.

    What you did was similar to telling people to make money they just need to have a website and products to sell but forgetting to mention that getting the right traffic to realise that potential is the biggest factor and they'll make nothing without it.

    Yes you should have a great product and offer etc..... but getting it in front of people is what it all comes down to - you can sell a bad product without good marketing ( yeah - you'll get a lot of refunds but that's not the point here) - so just saying make a great product and give it away won't work for anyone - without being able to get it in front of people.

    You could just add that element to your suggestion rather than trying to argue with the person who spotted that you missed it..
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    • Profile picture of the author bay37
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      so just saying make a great product and give it away won't work for anyone - without being able to get it in front of people.
      Exactly. This is what so many "business" people fail at and will continue doing so day after day after day...

      Originally Posted by LB;

      There's plenty of cheap/free SEO info for example and look at the 2k course that just sold.
      This sentence made my day. So simple, yet so true. Genius.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        You need more than just a good product. You need the right kind of product.

        For example.

        Let's say I had an ebook with a cure for cancer and it actually worked and I
        gave it away.

        People used it and their cancer was cured.

        Great...Where's my money coming from?

        I have nothing else to offer anybody. I mean my God, what's better that a
        cure for cancer that took me 10 years to develop.

        Do you see my point? You have to create something that is good but also
        has an "in" to other things that you can sell or get advertising for.

        Social Sites like Facebook, MySpace, Twitter, etc. are probably your best
        business models for the kind of thing you're talking about.

        But you're not going to make any money giving away an ebook no matter
        how great it is unless there is a relevant back end to it.

        Having said all that, in theory, I agree with your statement.

        But it's kind of like saying, "If you can invent a mechanical body with a
        mechanical heart and body parts and inject your soul into it, you'll live
        forever."

        Well, duh! But like THAT'S going to happen.

        You can probably count the number of "gave it away for free" super money
        makers on a few hands.

        These are not your everyday occurrence and you're "average" Internet
        marketer isn't going to come up with such a gold mine.

        Believe me...I've tried.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin_Hutto
    The other issue you have is staying power... Plenty of fish was started in 2001 - I dont know the guy's story as I have no interest in it - but I bet he worked on this site for quite a while before he hit the tipping point - you gotta be able to pay the bills in the meantime...
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    Guys, my point is that if someone is selling a premium service and you can give it away for free, then you can steal the market share.

    The money comes from backend promotions and advertising revenue.

    Of course not everyone can do it. Most people won't even try, let alone see it through. That's life, that's human nature.

    @Andy - I wasn't arguing, I was just stating that you don't need to pay for advertising to get exposure.

    It was just a fast and loose post about ONE way to get into business and fight off competition. Take from it what you will.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Why be cutthroat and ruthless when you can partner and create a syndicate? If you establish a reputation for ruthlessness, you'll never be at the top of anyone's list as a partnering candidate.

    Create a compelling, but non-competitive product offering and approach the competitor with a JV offer to let them keep some obscene profit percentage... 75%.... but not 100% because they will start to get suspicious. Anyone offering 100% commission on the front end obviously has ulterior motives. So play it safe and offer a lucrative percentage with the reasoning that you're nobody in the business and just trying to get started.... which is the truth, right?

    Create a mad value crazy front-end for the launch for free as a marketing tool for them to use to attract a giant percentage of their list.

    Continue to develop segmented products that bring your own angle to the table, but don't necessarily compete directly with their core.

    Think in terms of Frank Kern and Jeff Walker. Walker has PLF, right? Kern has Mass Control. They're both sort of similar in the whole pre-selling product launch structure. But Walker's is more about the systematic business process itself. Kern's is about creating a media persona and identity.

    By promoting each other, they create momentum and leverage.

    Of course, you could take the dark side approach to this strategy and do a deal. Then release a free knockoff version of their exact product.

    But guess what?

    You've poisoned the well in your market and will never get any partnership deal with anyone. You've shown what you're made of.

    Plus, me too products very rarely reach a dominant market share.

    Markus was not first to market in his segment. Business history proves over and over that is not the spot you want to be at because your entire marketing strategy is that of trying to compare yourself to the competition instead of leading a sector that you actually create and dominate.

    The give away for free strategy is an extreme version of discounting price. So yeah, knock yourself out building a business that gives away the core value for free across the board, and then rely on 3rd party sources of revenue as your primary income.

    It doesn't mean that you can't achieve SOME level of success... there are many instances of this including Markus' business. But I wouldn't bet on his company as an institutional investor. No way in hell would I put venture capital into his company. He's at the mercy of ad networks and a whole bunch of other market factors.

    The long term survivor isn't usually going to be the "me too" guy playing ruthless discounter of knockoff products.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    @Micheal - good points, but no matter which way you look at it, no matter what product you create, you'll always have direct competitors... competitors that you can't JV with because you're going head to head.

    Sure, you can create complimentary products to team up with them, but as you elude to, they're gonna be pissed if you turn around and start selling something which directly competes with them.

    I know what you mean though - it's a good strategy to approach non-competitive JV partners for your traffic.

    But as I say, you'll always have direct competitors to deal with.

    I'm not saying undercutting is the safest, easiest or most investable method out there, but I'm just showing how it can be done... and clearly HAS been done to make people VERY rich.

    Want another example? OpenOffice.org.

    There's plenty more...
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      I think it's important to note that you simply don't have to kill your "competition" to build a successful business.

      Having been involved in marketing for many many years the biggest mistake I see is people thinking they have to compete instead of working out what they do well that no one else is doing or finding a market that no one else is serving effectively.

      In your example of plentyoffish dating sites did not go broke (in fact there are more paid dating sites than ever) so clearly plenty of fish did not kill their competition at all.

      And that's the point.

      They never had to.

      They simply identified that there were plenty of people who'd be happy to put up with a higher level of junk messages on a dating site if they didn't have to pay to immediately get in touch with someone.

      You don't have to compete...you simply have to find a market you can service well and make sure you do it in a way no one else is doing it.

      Being unique in a marketplace gives you marketing power.

      Trying to kill your competition makes you a target for the other short term predators who are too dumb to realize that they don't have to compete and can gain more permanent loyal market share by niching tighter and servicing clients more effectively.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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      • Profile picture of the author netkid
        Better yet, there is a book called "Blue Ocean Strategy," written by W. Chan Kim and Renée Mauborgne. In it, they say forget competing with other businesses, instead create a new demand in an uncontested marketplace.

        In other words, the blue ocean is so large and vast, that there is no competition around to be relevant to your business. If you can innovate enough to differentiate from anything else in the market, then you rule your own niche, completely uncontested. Market demand is created than fought over.

        We need more of this type of business model to generate more successes....
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  • Profile picture of the author John Wilkes
    Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

    Step 1. Create a better version of a product or service than your competitors
    Step 2. Give it away for free
    Step 3. Once all your competitors go out of business, see step 4
    Step 4. Introduce revenue generators... advertising, premium models, upsells, crosssells, downsells.

    It's been done before, and it can - and will - be done again.

    Want an example? PlentyOfFish.com

    The world's biggest dating site, with the most traffic and users.

    Markus' success was down to this same formula. He has openly admitted it in several interviews.

    He started out by offering what everyone else was - and still is - charging for. Now he's a multi millionaire, and generates revenue through contextual advertising.

    Irresistible, in demand product for free = competitors cannot compete

    Less competition = more traffic/market share

    More traffic/market share = lots of money.

    Simples.
    I do not know where you got this idea, but if you have been observing someone elses tactics, I am afraid you have missed the point.

    It is not about knocking out your competitors, it is about positioning yourself above them by giving more value. You will always have new competitors. BUT if you can give away the equivalent of what they are selling, people will tend to make comparisions and think " If this is what he is giving away, just think how good what he is selling must be!"

    Check out Eben Pagan on youtube. If you can change you mindset from "how do I get $1 dollar from a million people" to "How do I give $100 dollars of value to a million people and ask $10 from each in return". Do not worry about competition, they are just there to make you look good.
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    • Profile picture of the author netkid
      @yukon, good going! I made three sites based on the Blue Ocean Strategy and gave tons away for free and have built up a very strong following. All three are in vastly different niches and I plan on monetizing each several months from now. To date, I don't know of any other sites that are in the same niche and in the same way I am presenting it.
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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

    Want an example? PlentyOfFish.com
    It's also worth noting that he had a significant advertising budget to get the site off the ground. He did a lot of offline advertising in the early days. Merely being free wasn't enough to get the train rolling. It rarely is.

    There is also the issue of him being a software developer that innovated ways to keep his server costs way down.

    It's nice to look at people as sources of inspiration, but there is usually more to their stories than meets the eye. This wasn't just "some guy" that everyone here can relate to that hit it big.
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    • Profile picture of the author reillymary56
      I have been thinking about this before and I have a question that someone might be able to answer.

      I'm going to use autotrader.co.uk an example.

      Say I start up my own site that offers the same services as the likes of autotrader but without any charges, I would want a lot of content at the beginning to get people looking at the site. So is there any legal issues with scraping the infromation from other sites, like autotrader and duplicating them on my site?

      The other question would be costs of a site like this, I'm not talking about the actually coding, more the hosting. I assume a site like this would use a lot of bandwidth and would require a dedicated server?

      This isn't a plan of mine, I just saw this post and thought I could get some info.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marc Rodill
    [/erase all]

    Give more, work harder, and persist for longer.

    Edit: too easy :-(
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      I guess I missed something....when did plentyoffish put all the other paid dating sites out of business?

      Meanwhile, currently at pof:

      Plentyoffish is currently down as a result of multiple system failures and service will be restored later today.
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      • Profile picture of the author alanbray
        Check out the book FREE by Chris Anderson the author of The Long Tail he speaks a lot on these tactics as you can guess by the title.

        I personally think we shouldn't be aiming to kill the competition rather to work alongside the competition make your differences clear and respect each other and then some will like your specific difference and some the competition. It's probably hard to accomplish this and earn a living but an honest penny is more valuable than a swindled $100 bill!
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    I remembered an example of how this sometimes doesn't work, from this forum a few years ago.

    I was getting asked a lot about RSS in 2004/2005 and so I started writing about it in ways that everyone could understand. It naturally led me into doing a lot of blogging and pinging and I ended up writing several books and doing videos on most aspects of it.

    I decided that rather than charge people for the blogging related information I'd just share it for free in posts and in ebooks so that there was no reason for anyone not to understand how to do it. Blogging was making me money and I was giving away all of the information for free about how to do it and answering any warriors questions that came up.

    Then a product came out that covered some information about blogging. Not nearly as much as I was already giving away for free, but it got heavily promoted and became a CB best seller and is still near the top now and has sold several revisions since and made over $100k.

    I was confused at the time because I bought it to see what all the fuss was about and found that it didn't say anything I hadn't already said many times for free in the forums, and it wasn't very well written, but people were coming here and raving about it.

    So in that case giving away the information certainly never killed any competition - it just left me wondering why people would go and pay for something they could already get for free.

    But that's the IM way - people promote stuff to make a commission and others buy it - it doesn't seem to matter that they can get the same thing for free, often in this forum.

    Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author tecHead
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      I remembered an example of how this sometimes doesn't work, from this forum a few years ago....
      Andy
      lol, I can name some that made a LOT of noise...

      - Xoom.com
      - AOL's HTML editor; AOLpress
      - MP3.com
      - pfft... countless numbers from the DotCom bomb

      I think the OP's intent was genuine; he just over simplified and that tends to create ripples in the WF, (mainly because of the pride found here that you get THE BEST info at the WF). Over simplification of complex issues doesn't ring well with that mentality.

      Take note, OP... and anyone else looking to post educational information; (I learned this lesson, as well -- the hard way)

      PLP,
      tecHead
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  • Profile picture of the author Derwin
    I love this strategy. It's what I've done and continue doing.You have put an excellent post here to guide us all. I believe in doing so.I am still visiting this site and getting lot of knowledge. Great Post, once again thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Nick,

      Yeh, I'm not entirely convinced either -

      The world's biggest dating site, with the most traffic and users.
      What about revenue?

      Less competition = more traffic/market share

      More traffic/market share = lots of money.
      More money?

      If it's not more money, then he hasn't 'killed the competition stone dead' - he's undercut them and inherited the least profitable and more troublesome users - he may have actually strengthened the competition by doing so.

      If a large percentage of his users are shills/marketers - IE - not really looking for a date, then some of the time, those users won't get the blame when another user discovers that their potential date that they've spent time chatting up is not genuine, but the site owner might get the blame.

      Paid sites are possibly less likely to get this problem.

      Hi hireava,

      I don't want to seem picky, but -

      "word of the mouth" advertising is one of the most effective way to enhance our product's visibility towards other people, and it can only be done if we have better products or services thab our competitors.
      Word of mouth can quite often 'be done' even if the product or service isn't better, but because the marketing is better.

      Hi reillymary56,

      So is there any legal issues with scraping the infromation from other sites, like autotrader and duplicating them on my site?
      Almost certainly, yes.

      The other question would be costs of a site like this, I'm not talking about the actually coding, more the hosting. I assume a site like this would use a lot of bandwidth and would require a dedicated server?
      Yes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Love_Money
    The real competitive advantage is offering something your competitor cannot copy. What if the competition starts copying your model and start offering free service?
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    • Profile picture of the author arschloch
      Originally Posted by Love_Money View Post

      The real competitive advantage is offering something your competitor cannot copy. What if the competition starts copying your model and start offering free service?
      It's an endless battle. But don't worry. All that matters is that you keep selling.
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      • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
        There's another really important strategy that many marketing beginners overlook in this "free is great" strategy.

        In many cases it's far better business to offer a premium solution at a radically higher price.

        # You only need a very small number of clients to make a profit.

        # Your market will be so small and so tightly niched it's unlikely anyone else will notice.

        # The potential for a HUGE return on time and money invested is much much higher because you're not trying to work out how you're going to monetize your business. You get a few paying clients...you're making great money.

        # Your overheads will be tiny...insignificant compared to your turnover and profits. You'll also be avoiding all the other problems that come with a large scale operation...staff, legal issues, maintenance etc etc.


        And just in case you're wondering if what I'm talking about is realistic...

        In the dating market a great example of this would be the one outrageously profitable service that charge $100,000+ to find the right partner for someone willing to pay (and yes this is a legitimate service that delivers on its promises).

        How many clients do you need at $100,000 each?

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh
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        • Profile picture of the author nyrsimon
          There are many strategies that work. No one strategy is the silver bullet going to solve all your issues

          Keep trying, find out what works for you and then rinse and repeat

          Bingo!!!!

          Simon
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  • Profile picture of the author arschloch
    You can't always give your product away for free, but you can usually find a way to make it better or more appealing to your customers so that you don't have to. If your competitor is stronger than you are, figure out what they do that makes them so successful, and then dedicate your time to doing it better.
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