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Isn't this content theft - please help me understand...

by psresearch
37 replies
I was reading a post by a marketer who suggested that as an affiliate of a vendor who uses a squeeze page - that you should just copy that vendor's squeeze page (without asking) and put it on your own site.

The main point is he feels that because you are an affiliate you automatically have the right to do that.

Only one person disagreed with him and that person got a severe "comment beating" for even suggesting it was theft.
#unethical
  • Profile picture of the author Searchedterms
    Usually the vendor gives you permission to use his images,content etc .But its always good to ask before you use any of it.
    And most of the times the vendor would not mind you using any of his info.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dr Livingston
    Since you are making him money, most vendors don't care. BUT the polite and respectful thing to do is to always ask them first.
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    • Profile picture of the author KatyaSenina
      For as far as I'm concerned you should never just copy something even if you're partnering with that vendor.

      Indeed, that would be 'theft'. To make sure, like everyone else already suggested here, it's best to ask for permission. It can never hurt to ask and it can help you stay out of trouble.

      Not all vendors are ok with affiliates using their 'material'. A great vendor should always have affiliate tools ready for affiliates to use instead.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    If you don't ask first, it is theft, no if, and, or buts. As stated, most vendors will be happy to give you permission. I have not done it a lot, but I have never been refused. The first IM site I ever did, I got a free review copy, and I was given permission to use all of his site graphics, so my site looked much like his and was pretty much a seamless transfer to another page that was a totally different site. I thought it was a good effect, but who knows.
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    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      If you don't ask first, it is theft, no if, and, or buts. As stated, most vendors will be happy to give you permission. I have not done it a lot, but I have never been refused. The first IM site I ever did, I got a free review copy, and I was given permission to use all of his site graphics, so my site looked much like his and was pretty much a seamless transfer to another page that was a totally different site. I thought it was a good effect, but who knows.
      Yes, and I've even had vendors set up separate follow up sequences for me. Well, we're definitely getting some varied answers here. Maybe it's not as simple as I thought.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Grable
        Originally Posted by Paul Schlegel View Post

        Yes, and I've even had vendors set up separate follow up sequences for me. Well, we're definitely getting some varied answers here. Maybe it's not as simple as I thought.
        No.. is is as simple as you thought. It's just that some vendors don't care. I'd hate to make that assumption.... generate a lot of revenue and then have the vendor decide that I stole his/her IP and keep my commissions.

        Could happen.... might not be right, but....
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  • Profile picture of the author djbventures
    If you take it without permission, it is theft, but most people hiring affiliates tend to offer a sales page to use in order to promote their product (you are promoting it to make them money afterall).

    Just ask the creator of the page if you can use the page. It's that simple...if they say no, ask if they have any other promotion tools. If they don't, well, then you have to make a decision if you want to work with them or with others who give you the sales tools to assist you.

    I myself prefer to have sales tools available to help me promote their product since they create them in a way they feel is best suited to promote their product.
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    • Profile picture of the author Pluton
      If one of my affiliates wants to use my squeeze page then please carry on - as long as there is an opportunity for us both to make $$$ then I have no problem - the more the better.
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      • Profile picture of the author KatyaSenina
        Originally Posted by Pluton View Post

        If one of my affiliates wants to use my squeeze page then please carry on - as long as there is an opportunity for us both to make $$$ then I have no problem - the more the better.
        If I had my own product and affiliates I wouldn't mind either... Too bad not everyone thinks the same.
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        • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
          Originally Posted by KatyaSenina View Post

          If I had my own product and affiliates I wouldn't mind either... Too bad not everyone thinks the same.
          Paul,

          I thought the same thing so I copied Amazon's website.

          The idiots told me to take it down and THREATENED ME WITH LEGAL ACTION!

          Don't they understand business?

          Anyway, I took it down and copied Facebook instead - it gets more traffic.

          I've got my programmer working on a copy of Google in case Facebook get snotty as well.


          Martin
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          • Profile picture of the author psresearch
            Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

            Paul,

            I thought the same thing so I copied Amazon's website.

            The idiots told me to take it down and THREATENED ME WITH LEGAL ACTION!

            Don't they understand business?

            Anyway, I took it down and copied Facebook instead - it gets more traffic.

            I've got my programmer working on a copy of Google in case Facebook get snotty as well.


            Martin
            LOL. I once had one of my customers write to me and tell me he was having trouble downloading Google - and was it because he was using AOL.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Yep, a copyright violation, pure and simple. Some vendors have different copy prepared for affiliates that may differ from the copy they use for their own direct sales.

    While I would agree that the vast majority of the vendors don't mind affiliates using their copy, I have seen instances where that was not the case. A simple e-mail request BEFORE stealing the text is the simplest and best approach to ensure that you aren't in violation. Anyone who advises people to simply take the text without explicit is giving out bad -- and possibly costly -- advice.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimGross
    Some people in this thread are using their own personal opinion and experiences and believing it applies to everyone in all situations. That's not how it works, it's a fallacious argument.

    You may have dealt primarily with Clickbank vendors who don't care about the issue, but other affiliate marketplaces like Commission Junction, etc, are a whole different ball game. Some companies won't let affiliates use their logo, let alone an entire squeeze page.

    Companies concerned about their brand/image keep close tabs on their affiliates and are very specific about what affiliates can and can't do. As always, don't expect to get good legal advice in forums.
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    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      Originally Posted by TimGross View Post

      Some people in this thread are using their own personal opinion and experiences and believing it applies to everyone in all situations. That's not how it works, it's a fallacious argument.

      You may have dealt primarily with Clickbank vendors who don't care about the issue, but other affiliate marketplaces like Commission Junction, etc, are a whole different ball game. Some companies won't let affiliates use their logo, let alone an entire squeeze page.

      Companies concerned about their brand/image keep close tabs on their affiliates and are very specific about what affiliates can and can't do. As always, don't expect to get good legal advice in forums.
      OK. Maybe this guy has only dealt with ClickBank or non-brand name type affiliate programs. Yes, in CJ a lot of the vendors are very strict about that. Good point.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
      Originally Posted by TimGross View Post

      Some people in this thread are using their own personal opinion and experiences and believing it applies to everyone in all situations. That's not how it works, it's a fallacious argument.

      You may have dealt primarily with Clickbank vendors who don't care about the issue, but other affiliate marketplaces like Commission Junction, etc, are a whole different ball game. Some companies won't let affiliates use their logo, let alone an entire squeeze page.

      Companies concerned about their brand/image keep close tabs on their affiliates and are very specific about what affiliates can and can't do. As always, don't expect to get good legal advice in forums.
      On the money, Tim.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Technically, without asking, it's theft. But in reality, show me a product creator who would refuse a sale because you used his content. Ain't gonna happen. Still, I'd ask permission first.

    Chances are good that if the vendor has an affilate resource component to his program the freakin' landing page is included.
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  • Profile picture of the author psresearch
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Oh for gawd's sake, grow a pair. Any vendor who bitches about using his copy to sell his product doesn't even belong in the game.
    I understand the second part of this. And I understand the phrase "grow a pair".

    But I'm wondering if you might elaborate on that as it doesn't really provide any specific information and I'm guessing you have a lot of experience when it comes to that statement (in this context I mean - not in general).
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    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

      Keep guessing.

      Better yet, talk to an attorney.

      Always be safe.
      OK. Kind of a cryptic reply, so I'll assume that it was more emotional than meaningful.

      But the main thing is I think most of the people clarified things for me here. I wasn't trying to be a smart-a**. I actually really wanted clarification which I feel like I've got by taking everyone's information under consideration.
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      • Profile picture of the author psresearch
        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

        I've always worked under the assumption that it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Fortune favors the bold.

        Sorry if I came off as snippy.
        OK. That makes sense. That's the approach John Barker (Affiliate Blackbook) took as well now that you've mentioned that.
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        • Profile picture of the author FredJones
          Surely the easiest thing to do is to ask the vendor?

          Clickbank or not, this appears to be theft if you do not ask. If you do and if the vendor says yes, then that becomes a different ball-game.
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        • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
          Okay, I am confused here, the OP asked about using a vendor's SQUEEZE PAGE right?

          IMO, a vendor probably would not be very happy if you took their squeeze page and pasted in your autoresponder box. Chances are they paid a copywriter to analyze and build their squeeze, which is never cheap unless it sucks. Also, chances are if you are a smart affiliate you are involved in a market and not just a niche so you will be selling many different related products to that list you are building using their squeeze page and not just the product of the vendor you stole the content from.

          Not to mention most squeeze pages offer a free product in exchange for an email and name so are you going to get the free product and offer it too? ...Not cool unless you have rights to distribute that free product and they do not give it for personal use only. A product must specify that it is able to be given away if you mean to give it away.

          I guess though if you want to copy a squeeze page and leave in the code which submits the email and name to the vendors list you can but how do you collect a commission from that?

          Am I missing something here or is nearly every reply to this thread completely wrong?

          Now a sales page for a specific product, that's different but still you should never use anyone elses copyrighted material without permission.
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          • Profile picture of the author psresearch
            Originally Posted by NicheMayhem View Post

            Okay, I am confused here, the OP asked about using a vendor's SQUEEZE PAGE right?

            IMO, a vendor probably would not be very happy if you took their squeeze page and pasted in your autoresponder box. Chances are they paid a copywriter to analyze and build their squeeze, which is never cheap unless it sucks. Also, chances are if you are a smart affiliate you are involved in a market and not just a niche so you will be selling many different related products to that list you are building using their squeeze page and not just the product of the vendor you stole the content from.

            Not to mention most squeeze pages offer a free product in exchange for an email and name so are you going to get the free product and offer it too? ...Not cool unless you have rights to distribute that free product and they do not give it for personal use only. A product must specify that it is able to be given away if you mean to give it away.

            I guess though if you want to copy a squeeze page and leave in the code which submits the email and name to the vendors list you can but how do you collect a commission from that?

            Am I missing something here or is nearly every reply to this thread completely wrong?

            Now a sales page for a specific product, that's different but still you should never use anyone elses copyrighted material without permission.
            He's suggesting that people copy the optin form exactly and then change the optin code to their own optin code - and then after they've joined your list to send the person to either the merchant's sales page or to the download page for the free report, etc. and says:

            "You have to optin yourself to the merchants list to find out where these links are."

            Actually I just read further and he suggests that if the merchant has an exit pop that they copy the exit page to their server as well and copy that whole process exactly as well.
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            • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
              Originally Posted by Paul Schlegel View Post

              He's suggesting that people copy the optin form exactly and then change the optin code to their own optin code - and then after they've joined your list to send the person to either the merchant's sales page or to the download page for the free report, etc. and says:

              "You have to optin yourself to the merchants list to find out where these links are."

              Actually I just read further and he suggests that if the merchant has an exit pop that they copy the exit page to their server as well and copy that whole process exactly as well.
              As a soon to be vendor, this would piss me off. How do I know you are sending emails to the list for only my product? How many products have direct competition of products which are very very similar? How much effort or cost did I put out to develop that exit pop and what is stopping you from re-branding by changing a couple things if one of my competitors offer a higher commission? This is THEFT!

              No way I would allow the complete copying of my ENTIRE sales process.

              This doesn't really make you an affiliate it makes you a lazy a$$ no talent copycat. Plus the on page SEO you rank for will just be competing directly with me and as a vendor I like to sell my product directly without giving a commission just as much as utilizing affiliate efforts, which is fair right? (Quite logical actually)

              A sales page which I paid to have the copy created for I wouldn't mind being used but the only reason for that is because the copy you use displays a definite feel for the product. Inferior copy conveys an inferior product. Go and get Paul Myers' "Why Johnny Can't Sell" to learn why copy makes all the difference.

              Overall, I think this is despicable behavior and pretty much defeats the whole purpose of being an affiliate. As an affiliate it is your job to go out there and find new avenues and employ your methods to squeeze as many buyers as you can in support of a good product you have reviewed and believe in or know something about. Essentially you are profiting from the creativity and work the vendor put in to create the product.

              Of course, we don't live in a perfect world though and people feel they are entitled to so many things with no remorse or understanding of other people's hard work and money spent.

              Copyright infringement is pretty easy to figure out and is illegal for a reason. Sure it sounds much easier then developing all this stuff (sales page, squeeze page, exit pop) on your own but what difference is there in copying the actual product too and cutting the vendor out completely?

              Not a whole lot from where I am sitting unless you plan to always sell my product to that list which is not very likely. Sending repeat offers to lists produces two things, more buyers who missed it the first few times or unsubscribers who think you have little to offer them. Selling to your list involves savvy marketing and keeping the content fresh and inviting, can't do that with one product unless you develop your own learning material and give it away for free.

              Stay far away from these tactics and put yourself in the vendors shoes. Copying without permission is unlawful behavior and shady.


              End rant. lol, not legal advice here just friendly opinion so consult a legal representative or the vendor specifically to know for sure what you can and cannot use of their property.
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  • Profile picture of the author anthon
    After all you are making money to the vendor so the vendor might not care about the copied article.
    But sometime if the article is very very unique or highly valuable then the vendor might bother to take actions.
    So it's always good to be polite and at least ask for permission before copying.
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  • Profile picture of the author MattSanti
    Why not make yours unique though instead? I mean if you provide your spin on it and this gives off real authenticity, you're going to have the buyer sold before they even hit the buy now button. And the real authenticity can come across even on a web page. It's obvious when someone's being fake - someone or some company.
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  • Profile picture of the author darrin_cooper
    In looking at this from an "ETHICAL" business sense, a Marketer (aka Vendor) "SHOULD NOT" use COPY without the express permission of the Product Owner.

    Here is why.
    1. A product owner has certain interests in their product, and not just monetary interest.
    2. A product owner "MAY" rely on Affiliates to be the VOICE of the brand.
    3. It's in the product owners interests to TEACH/TRAIN their affiliates to be the voice of their brand.

    Therefore, if a Product Owner provides the training/teaching, explains the way they want their brand/product to be marketing to the masses, then A.) an expectation has been set, B.) responsibility has been measured, and C.) Accountability should be applied. It is then on the Vendors part to engage potential customers to the best of the ability AS IF they were the product owner.

    What this means, is that a PRODUCT OWNER must express clearly & state clearly HOW that COPY, marketing materials, methods of engagement will be used to engage in customer acquisition, thereby, strengthining the relationship between owner & vendor and generating the highest amount of revenues across the board.

    At the end of the day, "Affiliates" can be seen as Independent Contractors - there are no specific rules in your own personal "operations" but should & must adhere to expressed/implied guidelines when it comes to marketing & engagement.

    Additionally, it's not really good or effective with 100 affiliates with the same sales page copy. Just think, w/ the optimal SEO in place, you could have Pages 1 thru 10 of a google search that has the same exact Sales Page copy. Don't you think it would make more effective sense with a "BIT" of variation?
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  • Profile picture of the author Socialiife
    Try using the content as a template and create your own unique angle to it. But avoid a direct copy... Use some creativity!
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    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      I'll say one thing. The responses here are WAY different than the responses in the comment section of the marketer who's blog I read this on. But then again most of the people there are "his" people and subscribers so maybe that shouldn't be surprising.
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  • Profile picture of the author tht222
    It is copyright infringement and as already mentioned some programs will be OK with it, some won't - never hurts to ask first and it has a lot more to do with common sense than with "growing a pair" IMO.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
    I can see why some would think that way. Vendors make the affiliate feel indespensible and give away so much free information that it is easy to think that as an affiliate you always have rights ,,,, but i think the point has been well made on here that that is dangerous and unethical way of thinking.
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  • Profile picture of the author Femzy4sure
    For me, I don't see anything wrong using the vendor squeeze page since you are trying to double its effort as an affiliate. For you to be on a safe side, you may ask permission from the vendor.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
    Originally Posted by Paul Schlegel View Post

    I was reading a post by a marketer who suggested that as an affiliate of a vendor who uses a squeeze page - that you should just copy that vendor's squeeze page (without asking) and put it on your own site.

    The main point is he feels that because you are an affiliate you automatically have the right to do that.

    Only one person disagreed with him and that person got a severe "comment beating" for even suggesting it was theft.
    Paul

    I saw it. Had to leave a reply, as I was quite dismayed by the majority of comments there. The only fellow who displayed reasonable ethics was being pummeled by the others.

    The whole idea of copyright seemed to be thrown aside and trampled. IMO, anyone employing this tactic must first contact the vendor and ask for permission. Seeing the comments at that blog made me wonder whatever happened to common professional courtesy. Is it really that much work to send an e-mail, get on Skype, or pick up a telephone?
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    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

      Paul

      I saw it. Had to leave a reply, as I was quite dismayed by the majority of comments there. The only fellow who displayed reasonable ethics was being pummeled by the others.

      The whole idea of copyright seemed to be thrown aside and trampled. IMO, anyone employing this tactic must first contact the vendor and ask for permission. Seeing the comments at that blog made me wonder whatever happened to common professional courtesy. Is it really that much work to send an e-mail, get on Skype, or pick up a telephone?
      Just saw your comment there. Will be interesting to see if the pummeling continues.
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      • Profile picture of the author theimdude
        I am not sure what point you are trying to make as it is a know fact that affiliates don't care if you use there information to market there products as the marketer and the vendor benefits both financially.
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        • Profile picture of the author psresearch
          Originally Posted by theimdude View Post

          I am not sure what point you are trying to make as it is a know fact that affiliates don't care if you use there information to market there products as the marketer and the vendor benefits both financially.
          A "known fact". Apparently there's some dispute about your "known facts" - as that's not at all always the case when you get outside of the ClickBank arena. But I suppose that would be an "unknown fact" to you then, eh?
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        • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
          Originally Posted by theimdude View Post

          I am not sure what point you are trying to make as it is a know fact that affiliates don't care if you use there information to market there products as the marketer and the vendor benefits both financially.
          Assumption? Assuming it's OK to steal other people's copyrighted materials could land you in a rather sticky spot of trouble. It is not a known fact. It is a fact that some vendors don't mind, however, you should go and read some of the terms of service of vendors at networks other than CB. In no dimension is it OK to help yourself to other people's copyrighted materials. Better yet, go read the DMCA.
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