Newbies, its not (always) YOUR fault

by Maddi

Posted: 14 years ago 29 replies

INTERNET MARKETING

Hey All,

This is not the first time I've finished reading someone else's info product in my spare time and ended up feeling like WHAT? $5k a month after implementing THIS ebook?

And we go on and on as warriors telling newbies to TAKE ACTION?

Frankly speaking, there is a heck of a lot of eBooks and Products out there, which we believe will work for a newbie, IF they took action. The sad truth is, there is just SO much left out of the eBooks, so many Assumptions, so many freaking bold claims and nothing to back them up with, its not the NEWBIES fault that they don't make money online.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its left out on purpose [who knows], I'm not saying it sub standard. There is potentially several reasons I can think of, why it won't work if the newbie even took action on it.
-------------------------

Person A. makes a heck of a lot of money using Method X. He writes an eBook sharing his strategy and the entire method, suggests that you'll make the same amount of money following it.

A. is great at what he does, BUT he doesn't know how to EXPLAIN it properly. I mean face it folks, teaching, guiding, coaching is a freakin Art. Plus there is experience involved which A has put into this method, testing, tweaking, changing as per individual experience.

-----

Assumptions: Because A knows how to upload a website via ftp and customize the look so it looks pretty, he most often leaves it completely out of the picture. [ftp only used as as example]

His instruction in the book look like,

Step 3: Upload your newly created report to your domain name. Be sure to buy a catchy and memorable domain. And now you have a good looking site which you can direct traffic to, and people can download your report from.

Newbie is :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: at this stage. How the heck do I create a good looking website?

See what I mean?

--------------

Step 6: Now that you have your report and the website ready, Contact JV partners affiliates to promote for you. Imagine if you have only 50 affiliates make one sale each day for you at 50% you get $12 that makes $600 a day! The possibilities are endless.....

I'm like hey! hey! wait! WHAAT?

Ok rant over. I was just fuming because I was talking to someone who was failing miserably at making money online and I gave him the usual Stock answer of 'Don't buy into shiny object, get one thing and TAKE ACTION on it' That is where he told me the previous products that he ACTUALLY took action on, and the bits where he stumbled with no one to ask questions, no after care or stuff like that.

-------------------
I am not saying all products are like this, I'm not saying its done on purpose, but this definitely is an area to be improved upon.

Maddi

#fault #newbies

Tina Golden

14 years ago

Maddi,

While I see your point in a way, if someone were to include every single thing that the reader might not know, it would be an encyclopedia and cost more money than the newbie could likely afford. They need to realize when they don't understand something, it's time to search that information out.

Let's face it, most of that can be found by Googling. So they should be doing that first. Then ask questions of another person or on a forum to fill in any gaps in their knowledge.

Isn't that what you would do? It's what I would do and did do as I learned.

Tina

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Maddi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

Absolutely agreed. What I'm trying to say here is the Packaging of information. If we profile and target our customers more, we can know so much about exactly what they want and we can provide it.

It also comes down to the topic of the product chosen, a lot of times if its a targeted and specific topic, we can easily provide info in detail but when its one size fits all kind of thing alongside bold claims that 'This is everything you need' when its not truly everything, thats the problem.

Maddi

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regska 14 years ago

You don't need to buy anything to solve your problem. There are a lot of ways to search for that information. I'm not saying that I don't buy ebooks of courses, but before I do that, I search first in Google or forums.

The only time I buy an ebook is to learn the advance strategy. For example, I want to learn and start building my list. Sure, I can search a lot of information about list building by reading some articles or search in Google or forums for free, but If I see something like, "How to build 1,000 subscribers in 30 days", then I'll buy that ebook. You can always ask for the refund anyway if you find that ebook is not worth the price.

My point here is, you don't need to spend big bucks for ebooks and courses to learn something. You can find valuable information for free out there.
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VanessaB

14 years ago

Maddi,

You can't possibly teach EVERYTHING in one product.

Unfortunately, this is what happens.

Newbie comes into biz. Finds book on "Make a Bazillion Dollars With No List, No Product And Absolutely No Technnical Skills All From Facebook."

Newbie thinks! Awesome! I'm on Facebook all the time anyway! This is perfect for me!

So newbie buys book, which tells him to build a frieken Fan Page, get some friend adder software sh*t and find some affiliate product to promote!

WAIT!

How do I know what product to pick?
What is a niche?
oh.. weight loss... didn't work?
SH*T... go find new book on 'microniche'?
Keywords? WTH are keywords?
More sofware
Jeez.. how do I work the software...
This is too confusing, go find other book...
Joint Ventures! YES! HERE WE GO! OTHER PEOPLE DO EVERYTHING.... all I have to do is email them and ask for interviews
SH*T... none of these 'guru' types responded to my emails
THESE BAS*AR*S are all LIARS....
EBAY.. yea.. that's it EBAY! I'll try EBAY.... wait... what do you mean I have to write a description?

And that is the cycle.

Best thing a newbie can do, find a coach who can 'discover a talent' to build one stream of income.

Then another, and another.

Change coaches for different projects.

One coach might be great at helping you find your strengths to build income streams, but be weak in recruiting JV partners, so when you get there, THEN find a coach for that.

-Dani

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Tina Golden 14 years ago

Dani,

I love the way you write.

Tina
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bretski 14 years ago

Meh, to all y'all....this stuff is simple but it isn't easy. It does require some homework and effort. I agree that it's near impossible to be all things for all people and to answer every question that a new person might have in one book.

I do think that there are people that quit too easily and I think a person has to be determined to succeed in order to do so in IM. Problem solving is a skill and if you are having a problem there is a solution. The answer could probably be found quite easily through google or by asking a specific question here.
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- VanessaB 14 years ago
  
  Thanks Tina. Stand up comedy is my back up plan if IM doesn't work out for me.
  
  -Dani
  
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White80

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DanielleS

Maddi,

Best thing a newbie can do, find a coach who can 'discover a talent' to build one stream of income.

Then another, and another.

Change coaches for different projects.

One coach might be great at helping you find your strengths to build income streams, but be weak in recruiting JV partners, so when you get there, THEN find a coach for that.

-Dani

Thanks for this info. I am new to this game but these principles are sound.

Learning from someone who has achieved what you want to achieve is a great way to fast-track your progress!!

This has reminded me that all IM gurus will have their specialities - thanks again.

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createyouwealth 14 years ago

While I see where you are coming from, you most definitely can't put everything in one product, that will be a very long book and would cause the newbie to become extremely overwhelmed thus leading them to not take action. Also, it will teach the newbie how to research as well which is a very important skill to learn when starting out online.
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Jeremiah Walsh 14 years ago

I know exactly what you mean. I have taken courses on IM and I left them feeling like the stew was missing its meat and potatoes.

I am new to the forum, but not new to IM by any means. Getting the message across to your audience is the hardest part.

However, sometimes you got to realize that some people just aren't cut out for it. IM is not for everyone...
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TChiu 14 years ago

Yeah the information overload is suffocating sometimes.. glad i found this forum to get some real advice.
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cashcow

14 years ago

You don't need to buy anything to solve your problem. There are a lot of ways to search for that information. I'm not saying that I don't buy ebooks of courses, but before I do that, I search first in Google or forums.

This is true, however, when you get your information this way, you are getting it in bits and pieces and you have to know how to connect all that.

Sometimes the info products can help with that but like everyone here has said, it's too difficult to give people everything the need in just 1 product.

Some people need the basics, but others would be bored if you put them in the product.

What a lot of people don't realize is that there is a lot to Internet Marketing and many things to learn. You probably can't get it all in 1 course.

Lee

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Soapyshoe 14 years ago

The "make money online" niche isn't about helping newbies - it's about selling Ebooks.

Mike Filsame calls it "selling the dream."
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- mcmahanusa 14 years ago
  
  The problem is that many a newcomer falls for the hype of the "guru" or "shaman", then realizes too late that he/she needs help to implement even the most basic, workable solution.
  
  It's sort of like the guy (trust me, it's always a guy) who buys a Dodge Viper, then learns too late that it's too much for him to handle, and he ends up in a ditch, or crumpled up against a telephone pole, or in the hospital. If he'd had some specialized training and instruction, driving the Viper could have been an exciting, exhilarating experience, one that could be repeated over and over again.
  
  Danielle makes an excellent point. Get a coach for each separate discipline.
  
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- VanessaB 14 years ago
  
  Lee,
  Exactly. Today, I read a guide that was extremely basic for my skill level. It featured a good strategy for finding something to promote, and info on how to build a squidoo lens. Because I've 'been there done that' I got pretty bored pretty quick. But for a newbie, this could very well be a pot of gold.
  
  I think the creator has done well with this as a 'basic concept' because if he had gone on to talk about creating your own product, setting up your own site, finding JV partners, etc, he would have overwhelmed the reader.
  
  Originally Posted by Soapyshoe
  
  The "make money online" niche isn't about helping newbies - it's about selling Ebooks.
  
  Mike Filsame calls it "selling the dream."
  
  I am so glad that I don't think like that, and here's why.
  
  Have you ever heard of "The Law Of Reciprocity"?
  
  How bout Zig Ziglar? "You can have everything you want if you spend enough time giving other people everything they want"
  
  I have a friend who thinks Tony Robbins is an 'idiot.' Now, I idolize Tony because he spends his life EMPOWERING people and helping them to realize their dreams and overcome their fears, and their circumstances.
  
  She lives for "Big Brother." A tv show that supports the notion of making TEAMS, only to stab each other in the back for the big win!
  
  Hmmm? Who would you rather be?
  
  Finally, Paul Myers, "sell 'em what they want, give 'em what they bought, sneak in what they NEED." No truer or wiser statement has ever been summed up so eloquently and succinctly with regards to doing business!
  
  (Thank you Paul, I live by that mantra with every single product I create.)
  
  -Dani
  
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depik Banned 14 years ago

Taking proper action is definitely a must if we want to build our success online. Too much information overload can be draining for sure.
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jeckelectre 14 years ago

everything newbie needs can be found on this forum..
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Sparhawke 14 years ago

So much could be accomplished by collecting questions from confused newbies and updating an ebook with REAL questions from confuzed noobs and REAL answers from someone who is actually doing it.

Just like Gene does in the War Room with his topic, how long has that been running and he still takes care to answer questions and queries at least once a week?

Now that is aftercare.
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Jacqueline Smith 14 years ago

I'm a newbie and have bought a few products. None so far have been a complete A-Z guide. I initially found it frustrating but quickly realized that what was something new for me was obviously second nature for the creator of the product. I am now very picky with the products I purchase and I don't go into it expecting to get all the answers. I've learned to get out of products the information that I need. I then piece it together with info from other sources.

I think of my business plan as a puzzle.....find the pieces that fit, put them all together and take action.

I think the only way to possibly get an A-Z type education in IM is to have a coach and or mentor. I recently joined a coaching program that had rave reviews and I am so far very impressed. Hopefully this will be the final piece of my puzzle.....that is until I'm ready to start a new puzzle!!!

(I don't want to put a link on here to the coaching I'm taking because I don't know if it's allowed.....feel free to PM me if you want any info about it).
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Stefan Pylarinos

14 years ago

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Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

If people can't fill in the missing pieces then they don't belong in any type of business.

So I guess it wouldn't be there fault.

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VanessaB 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

If people can't fill in the missing pieces then they don't belong in any type of business.

So I guess it wouldn't be there fault.

Thomas,
Oddly enough, those are usually the pieces of the puzzle that are missing for people.

They don't want to hear that though.

They want 'strategies' and 'methods' for making a quick buck. Not 'fundamentals.'

That's the stuff that the good product creators 'sneak in.'

-Dani
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JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jacqueline Smith

I think the only way to possibly get an A-Z type education in IM is to have a coach and or mentor. I recently joined a coaching program that had rave reviews and I am so far very impressed. Hopefully this will be the final piece of my puzzle.....that is until I'm ready to start a new puzzle!!!

Even a coach or mentor is likely to leave out parts of the alphabet they either don't know, don't use or don't think are important.

I think your approach of looking at your business education like a puzzle is a very healthy one, and likely to also be a lucrative one as your puzzle-solving skills improve.

Maddi, I see two problems with the "everything plus the kitchen sink" approach...

First, if you include too much material, you will intimidate the reader/user, who will give up without even trying. They'll be overwhelmed and move on to the next thing - often to someone willing to simply 'sell them the dream'.

Second, even if the reader/user plows ahead, too much material they already know will numb them to the new stuff they seek to learn. The flowers get buried under the mulch.

That said, I remember buying products that included a resource guide with links to places I could learn the stuff they couldn't include in the actual product. Using your example, for learning to use ftp, the creator might include links to YouTube videos and maybe a link to a free ftp program like Filezilla.

It might also be nice if IM products carried ratings like ski slopes - Easy, Intermediate, Difficult and "Whattayou, nuts?"

Edit:

Maddi, I do believe that even the worst products require action. Sometimes the best action is to highlight the product and hit Delete...

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Anna_O 14 years ago

Maddi,
Thanks for clarifying this problem for newbies.

It's not that newbies such as myself are expecting an encyclopedia of information all at once or that we don't want to take action or do research on certain topics within a course.

The problem is the OVERPROMISE and UNDERDELIVER in the advertising of these courses. They promise that ANYONE can make $5000 per month just by following this course and they don't need a web site, a list, etc. When you get into the course, you find out that you don't need a web site, but that the person who had the $5000 results did have a Web site or a list,e tc.

Or you find out that it is going to take months to learn the concepts that the course requires you to execute. That would all be fine - but that's not what was promised in the advertising. Or you find out that the course is asking you to do something that as a newbie you are just not equipped to do - such as build a JV partnership that requires credibility and experience as a marketer.

There are courses and e-books and marketers who will guide newbies step-by-step. And those are the ones that the newbies should seek out. Instead of buying the courses or WSOs that promise miraculous results ($5000/mo or 1 million site visitors), newbies should be cautious and instead look for courses that include ongoing support, resources and step-by-step guidance for the beginner. You may only make $8 your first month. But you are learning the basics and can build upon it.

Also, newbies need to focus on one area of internet marketing. If interested in promoting CPA, learn everything about promoting CPA. If interested in promoting info products, learn everything about promoting info products, etc.

Courses that help newbies do exist, and I feel fortunate to have found them in areas of Internet Marketing that also align with my personal values (promoting products I can endorse and that provide value to the customers).

While it may be true that anything a newbie needs does exist on this forum, it is impossible to tell the truth from the exagerated truth here. Too many people trying to promote their own products giving advice that their technique is the best. And too many people disagreeing about what the "best" or "right" approach is (getting traffic/backlinks is an example area). Because of this and the overload of info, it is very difficult to cull through the information and determine which guidance to follow first, second, third.

I'll get off my soapbox now

Best wishes,
Anna
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Jacqueline Smith

14 years ago

Originally Posted by LifestyleTrans

Hey Jacqueline Smith, I can't send you a PM because I don't have 50 posts yet - would you be able to send me a PM with the details/link for the coaching/mentoring program?

PM sent....

Hope it helps.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Maddi

Frankly speaking, there is a heck of a lot of eBooks and Products out there, which we believe will work for a newbie, IF they took action. The sad truth is, there is just SO much left out of the eBooks, so many Assumptions, so many freaking bold claims and nothing to back them up with, its not the NEWBIES fault that they don't make money online.

A. is great at what he does, BUT he doesn't know how to EXPLAIN it properly.

Assumptions: Because A knows how to upload a website via ftp and customize the look so it looks pretty, he most often leaves it completely out of the picture. [ftp only used as as example]

It is not possible to create ebooks that describe every single step from the moment you turn a computer on and that is exactly what some newbies need.

Newbies: Google is your friend. Use it. Don't know how to do something, Google it.

Thanks

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michaelromero63 14 years ago

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Mike Murphy

14 years ago

Sometime the trouble is that people want a system that is A-B-C simple so they can simply implemtn each of the 12 (or however many) steps and BOOM.....7 figure income streaming on autopilot.

Yes I agree, there are TONS of info product that, like the sentence you quoted above, leave out a ton of information and it brings about 2 important points...

1) Gotta take the initiative to do a little leg work and fill in the blanks and

2) Product creators should read (or better yet have a total newb read) their ebook, course, guide etc. and point out spots where they've left out details.

Sometimes the area that aren't clear enough could be turned into a whole other product.

There are no secrets, but there's lots of laziness.... ;-)

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jlucado

14 years ago

Ebook Marketing 101

Yep, There are almost always gaps or a missing piece of the puzzle in the ebooks newbies buy.

Yep, There is almost always simple stuff in the ebooks newbies buy that is over their head.

Yep, For these reasons, there is almost always a way to sell them more.

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Soapyshoe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by jlucado

Ebook Marketing 101

Ebooks are ALMOST ALWAYS the "foot in the door" for a larger sales funnel.

Most Newb IMers who create Ebooks never follow it up with a larger and more detailed system that backs up the concepts in the Ebook.

Which is why most Ebooks are trash that nobody reads.

Thanks

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excoder01 14 years ago

I suggest you guys look up the 4 (or 5) stages of learning.

1) Unconscious incompetent - "I don't know IM"
2) Conscious incompetent - "I don't know IM, but I will learn to improve"
3) Conscious competent - "I'm good at IM, but I can do better"
4) Unconscious competent - "I'm so good at IM, it's like a reflex to me."
5) Perhaps - there's Reflective Unconscious Competent - "I'm so good at it, and can relate to others newbie explaining all the details."

Unfortunately, many "gurus" are at the 4th stage - they are missing a lot of the intermediate steps and processes, since it's already second nature to them. Often they'll say, "Just setup a WP, get traffic, and make $5K a month!"

However, it's rare to find those gurus are the 5th stage. I know of couple IMers at the level, but those guys are very rare. Not only can they act, but they can teach well.
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Newbies, its not (always) YOUR fault

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