How Does DoubleYourDating.com Pull This Off?

The way he is doing it is not illegal, and is in compliance with the current FTC rules. Before the controversy happened last year, you were automatically enrolled into a continuity program without your explicit permission. Now, you have to pre-check a box giving your explicit consent to being enrolled in the continuity program - by checking the box you are consenting to the continuity agreement.

There is nothing wrong with what Eben is doing here, it is all above board and completely legal.

But guys, this box on double your dating IS PRE-checked, meaning its already checked when you order. You have to opt-out of it if you want to order without continuity.

I dont find it ethically wrong at all, but I just thought it was against the FTC rules

Here, check it out:

https://order.doubleyourdating.com/d...cdc1Yg55dMw%3d

The box is checked, by default. That is the auto-shipping of his CD of the month continuity program.

That's why he's more of an info-marketing guru than a relationship guru coach.

The same way a drug dealer manages to sell crack, despite it being illegal. If the authorities don't know about it(and they likely don't), they can't do anything about it(assuming it's illegal to begin with-I don't know that it is). And as long as he honors his refund policy, cancellation requests, etc, they probably never will.

Edit
Found this page at the FTC site. Nowhere does it say pre-checked boxes are illegal. It actually does the opposite by saying pre-checked boxes are binding:

"Pay attention to pre-checked boxes. That check may bind you to terms and conditions you’re not comfortable with – or ready to accept."

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...ts/alt008.shtm

Take that for what it's worth. That info is dated December 2009, so it could be they haven't updated it to reflect changes in the law on this issue.

Black Hat Cat -- the FTC cracked down in Jan of 2010

I've read that pre-checked boxes are illegal but I'd think this company would certainly change their site if it was illegal.

I've read it in places and recently heard it from a merchant account provider but perhaps I am missing something..

Interesting... I'm sure Eban has had legal advice on this. Considering his WHOLE sales funnel depends on forced continuity, he HAS to know something we don't.

Matt

yea its illegal

FTC also said they were not intending on enforcing it. 72 of one, half a gross of another.

Matt MacPherson - that is why I posted:

I agree -- he HAS to know what hes doing.

Now, it WOULD be legal if it was unchecked, right?

Or maybe since he stated ON the first sales page that the optional continuity stuff was bundled in, its ok?

Anyone else have any feedback?

i know its not kosher.... the box is supposed to be UNCHECKED.

but he's done and is doing SO MUCH volume i'm sure there's some exceptions made for them or something.... because i know the box needs to be unchecked....

powerpay shut me down in the beginning of the year because my OPTIONAL continuity was pre-checked.

It not illegal as long as it is very clear that you will going into a continuity program.

Oilman,

I tried to find information at the FTC's site but could not. I was looking
for anything about pre-checked boxes. While I couldn't find it at FTC.gov,
I did find a letter sent from a merchant account provider that referenced
new rules set forth by the FTC earlier this year.

I tried to find those rules at the FTC's site, but maybe their site is not
updated as was suggested.

The letter talks about negative option marketing and specifically states
that pre-checked boxes do not constitute affirmative consent. But one
thing that I'm wondering is if this is a strict negative option scenario at
his site. I don't think it is, and I'll explain in a moment.

I'm not a lawyer, but from what I read this morning and generally know
about negative option marketing; the form is upfront about everything.
It does leave out specifics of the terms, though.

In my opinion, aside from the pre-checked box, it is potentially deceptive.

I went through the order process and gave it a very good read, multiple
times. I'm also a copywriter, and I understand the effect of how things
are arranged, as well as how readers would tend to read and focus on
the copy. Take a real good look at the copy next to the box that is
pre-checked.

In my unprofessional opinion, the salient question is whether or not it's
a negative option offer. My opinion is that it is not, and again my opinion
is that distinction is what probably makes it legal. (The pre-checked box.)

This is clever because a negative option enrollment program is one in which
you are automatically enrolled and have to cancel after you're enrolled. There
are other distinctions such as canceling before a certain date, etc.

But that does not apply in this situation, right? You are not really automatically
enrolled. But yet you are if you fail to uncheck the box.

Ok, the following letter cites FTC rules as they pertain to negative option
enrollments. So that would include the prohibition against pre-checked boxes.
If his site is not a negative option situation, then the prohibition will not
apply. Clever, huh?

That's my take on this and perhaps why it's legal. I don't think he's being a
cool guy at all. But I'm sure he can live with that.

This letter has been posted on numerous websites, and here's the link:

Email, Internet and Direct Marketing | Credit Cards and the FTC Take Stance Against “Negative Option” and “Forced Continuity” | The Internet Legal Advisor

I hope I made sense. It is 3 AM, after all.


Ken

Maybe its not illegal but its the merchant accounts that don't like it.. ?

Didn't you know, it's only illegal if you get caught........

Joking apart though, just because something may be illegal doesn't mean people won't get away with it. Just look at the tobacco industry, how come they can get away with it & drug dealers go to jail......

I am suspecting that this guy knows what he's doing - and has stuff checked by lawyers, so I'm sure it actually isn't illegal.

Cheers

Kev

it wasnt terminated... they just shut it down for a week while the cc companies were going ballistic with trials, continuity etc.

bottom line is you gotta check with your merchant.

dyd has done TENS of millions in sales each year, they probably have a special relationship with their merchant as a result.... i'm sure they've got their stuff compliant.

but they aren't doing a negative option.... you are buying the ebook (used to be at $47 not sure on pricing now).... you're then billed a less amount for the monthly interviews ($19.95 a month)

this is different than your free trials, just pay s/h....

something to keep in mind.

The idea of checking the box is NOT to check a box!!!!!!! The idea is for THEM to check the box so you KNOW they read the info. I can't imagine this standing up in court AT ALL!!! DELTA forces me to check boxes and enter numbers to buy stuff! GODADDY tries to TRICK you into checking boxes, etc... Several companies I deal with do the SAME. A BANK recently asked me to basically check a box! ****WHY****? I mean if you could just PRECHECK, why don't they!?!? BECAUSE IT ISN'T LEGAL! And, if you ask me, it isn't ethical either. People think they are signing up for a free report, and end up getting signed up for who knows how much!

Steve

Um.. who cares anyway. But what I'd like to know is what CMS he's using and what blog theme comes close to the functionality of his site.

What about Short Sales Riches

When you click order, it has continuity bundled in. its not "Checked", but its bundled in as an item in the shopping cart.

Is that legal?

Ok.. according to the FTC guidelines you can no longer use pre checked boxes.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/2009/02/P06420...tionreport.pdf

But isn't this akin to a pre-checked box? Not to kick a dead horse here, and not to bring anything negative to this offer (Short Sales Riches), but isn't that akin to a pre-checked box?

Using deceptive and/or confusing techniques may increase your short-term revenue, but it does nothing at all in the way of building positive long-term relationships with your customers.

While some people may have ethical issues with the way these marketers are doing things, they have obviously done their homework and consulted extensively with their lawyers and merchant account providers before doing this. The Double Your Dating and Short Sales Riches products have both generated millions of dollars in sales for their product creators, and both have been on the market for several years. I'm sure their sales pages have been subjected to intense scrutiny during this time, and if there was anything truly illegal about their offers they'd have been shut down by now.

One thing I've noticed is that they're not hiding anything - they're being extremely open about the continuity offer on the sales page. Frank Kern does the same thing with his sales pages too, it is almost impossible to miss the fact that your product purchase comes with a continuity offer.

what if you just tell people it's a membership and the monthly fee is $xx?

Shouldn't that be enough?

(doesn't sound like a negative option to me - sounds like the ONLY option)

I very much doubt what Eben is doing is illegal. Considering how many years this project has been in the making.

bottom line? contact your merchant/clickbank and see what they say.

and hopefully eben keeps making millions a year off DYD. :-)

so what's the conclusion?