Anyone Use NLP Persuasion Techniques?

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by webwise66

My approach to using NLP techniques is certainly in the choice of words but even more so in the realization that very few people take information in evenly and equally through all 3 senses (visual/auditory/kynesthetic) but are seriously lopsided towards one of the 3 and many towards the visual.
So for them reading a long sales letter might be a pain in the butt and watching a video all of a sudden makes complete sense.
You get what I mean...
There seems to be a lot more videos out there.
See, feel and listen.

As my teacher Dave Dobson used to say, each person has their own 3 legged stool. Each leg represents one of the systems.

Which legs are longer than the other?

Now when you have an uneven stool, it's a bit rickety and can fall over.

The challenge is to balance the stool.

But, here's a big hint - the use of visual, auditory, and kinesthetic words in copy does not work.

It's a waste of time.

Who can guess why?

If you were on my NLP list, I already taught this....

[Li Weng]

Don't really know too much about NLP, but I've heard quite a bit about it. Does it really work?

[williamstarrett]

Harlan, I'm on your lists and try to read each email but I don't remember seeing this one. However, I'll take a stab at it because I'd love to know the right answer.

My guess is because people "hear" the words as they read them. They subvocalize the words to process them. Again, just a guess.

What works better? Imagery through stories that queue emotion? Even then, the modalities would be hot buttons, I guess.

Originally Posted by Harlan

But, here's a big hint - the use of visual, auditory, and kinesthetic words in copy does not work.

It's a waste of time.

Who can guess why?

If you were on my NLP list, I already taught this....

[lilmechante01]

Originally Posted by Christie Love

I have used EFT, Hypnosis, NAC, and NLP. Currently, I only perform self hypnosis and EFT on myself. Both of these techniques help me to gain clarity and focus, which allows me to write faster and with much more intent than if I did not use anything at all.

I encourage anyone to use these techniques, especially if they experience "Writer's Block."

I use EFT and self-hypnosis too, and have taught my kids a few EFT things too to help open "mental blocks" to use, especially for test-taking.

[quote=MaskedMarketer;233747]
Kevin Hogan also says the majority of NLP techniques being taught/used are un-scientific, un-proven, and may cause opposite effects. quote]

I also know quite a bit about NLP and NAC (among a few others), although I'm not certified in NLP(yet). I've had guys try to use it on me, and they're usually in for a surprise when it doesn't work...Talk about causing opposite effects Kind of fun to play along with their "game" at times though...that is if I can keep from rolling my eyes or laughing

Originally Posted by John Taylor

I agree with Harlan that NLP should be used ethically.

NLP is a very powerful tool which should NEVER be used
to manipulate people.

Trying to use NLP without proper training is like trying to
drive a formula one racing car without a driving license.

If you are going to study NLP begin by using it first as a
self development tool.

The more you know about yourself, the better you will be
able to communicate with others.

John

I couldn't agree with you more. I do agree with both you and Harlan that it should be used ethically.

Originally Posted by Harlan

Shut up Dave.

What do you know.

Using NLP to get the most beautiful women in the world to go to be with you.

With YOU of all people.

Tell everyone it doesn't work.

Tell them it's illegal and the NLP Police will get them.

Tell them to buy my stuff.

Well as Meatloaf said, "Two out of three ain't bad."

Cya.

Originally Posted by Harlan

I strong DO NOT recommend a newbie train with Richard Bandler.

I don't normally use this language but he will F*** with your mind. Without permission.

Peace.

This got me thinking...a lot of these dating "gurus" from what it seems (since I don't own their courses, of course) teach guys NLP et al to use on women...how many of them or what do you think the possibility is that these "gurus" also employ these techniques in their presentations & products on the guys who buy them to manipulate or "convince" them that their "lifestyle" is the only way their clients/followers will ever be able to experience ultimate happiness and love in their lives?

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by williamstarrett

My guess is because people "hear" the words as they read them. They subvocalize the words to process them. Again, just a guess.

That's it.

DING DING DING.

Everyone subvocalizes when reading so it forces people to be in an auditory mode.

Now, if they would WATCH a video (instead of just listening to it) they would be visual.

Which of course leaves another mode completely wide open...

Can you get my point here?

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by lilmechante01

This got me thinking...a lot of these dating "gurus" from what it seems (since I don't own their courses, of course) teach guys NLP et al to use on women...how many of them or what do you think the possibility is that these "gurus" also employ these techniques in their presentations & products on the guys who buy them to manipulate or "convince" them that their "lifestyle" is the only way their clients/followers will ever be able to experience ultimate happiness and love in their lives?

You mean, would they use ultra sneaky ultra effective (except on you) persuasion techniques to sell to their clients?

Damm straight they do.

[lilmechante01]

Originally Posted by Harlan

You mean, would they use ultra sneaky ultra effective (except on you) persuasion techniques to sell to their clients?

Damm straight they do.

Thank you Harlan. I started figuring that out some time ago, but never could find someone certified in NLP to confirm it...until now. And, if you ask any of their "followers" anything to the contrary, they'll of course, defend what they've "learned" because they've had some success with it which in turn becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that their lifestyle is 'real' and the promised dreams they were sold will come true.

It's a shame to think of how many men out there who are learning from these "gurus" will end up giving up the REAL thing with a woman because in "learning" to get what they want, they actually ended up being unknowingly "brainwashed" themselves into always wanting MORE, rather than appreciating what they have...because, after all, these dating "gurus" are really ingenius marketers who understand that the longer they keep their clients/followers convinced that this lifestyle is the ONLY way to go, the more money they can make selling their ideas/products to these guys. But, karma will eventually catch up to these "gurus" just as it did with Stephane of Ideagasms because what they sell actually goes against what love is really about.

As a side note... if anyone does/or is considering using NLP et al. on a person for the sake of getting him/her to date you (or whatever else you're looking for) this is a form of manipulation/control (the ego's domain) and is not a matter of the heart (no matter how much you may have been "convinced" it is)...because the heart knows only unconditional love which is given freely. So, if you are employing these techniques on others in order to find love, you are really doing nothing more than conducting a "business transaction" with that person.

Namaste

This is bj reporting on location about NLP and dating...back to the studio with you Harlan

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by lilmechante01

As a side note... if anyone does/or is considering using NLP et al. on a person for the sake of getting him/her to date you (or whatever else you're looking for) this is a form of manipulation/control (the ego's domain) and is not a matter of the heart (no matter how much you may have been "convinced" it is)...because the heart knows only unconditional love. So, if you are employing these techniques on others in order to find love, you are really doing nothing more than conducting a "business transaction" with that person.

Namaste

Oh I could tell you stories about this that would make your head turn like Linda Blair in the Exorcist.

[Kenneth Smith]

Originally Posted by Harlan

The definitive book on therapeutic metaphors remains David Gordon's book, Therapeutic Metaphor. His video series available at that url is excellent.

Unfortunately, the NLP model was therapeutic. In 2009, David and I will be presenting on therapeutic metaphors for persuasion.

Harlan, you've made of lot of powerful comments to help us understand your viewpoint, many quite valid I believe.

However, I must say that while you may be good at persuasion using therapeutic metaphors, you're pretty darn good with the straight talk too!

Kenneth
(Certified Master Practitioner of NLP)

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by Kenneth Smith

Harlan, you've made of lot of powerful comments to help us understand your viewpoint, many quite valid I believe.

However, I must say that while you may be good at persuasion using therapeutic metaphors, you're pretty darn good with the straight talk too!

Kenneth
(Certified Master Practitioner of NLP)

I should dig up and post my famous coffee metaphor.

But then you would all buy my product and they would delete my posts.

Shhh. Can't sell anything here....

Maybe if I delete the links...

[Harlan]

Found it:

Subject Line: How Coffee Saved A Marriage

A number of years ago, Michael, a good friend of mind was
going through a rough time in his marriage.

It wasn't that he and his wife fought.

It was more like guerilla warfare.

It was exhausting to both of them.

Going to marriage counselling didn't work at all.

If anything, it made things worse.

But in a crazy way, they were still madly in love with one another.

I know. It makes no sense at all. But they loved one another even
though they fought all the time.

On one thing they agreed - their kids. They never argued about
their kids.

They argued about finances, where to vacation, what to have for
dinner, what movie to see, what video to rent, and what they
should wear for an evening out.

It was like their fighting was keeping them together.

Until one day, Michael changed. He told me he was tired of fighting.

It was taking too much energy.

He was ready to call it quits and move on.

When I asked him why, his answer was, it was taking too much energy
to fix his marriage.

That's where the coffee came in.

You see this was in the days before green signed coffee shops dotted
the landscapes.

If you wanted a good cup of Java, you brewed it yourself.

So I asked Michael,

Do you drink just any coffee?

"No, I only drink the good stuff."

So you never drink instant?

"Never. I don't even consider it coffee."

What coffee do you drink?

"I like Kona and Jamaica Blue Mountain."

Restaurant coffee?

"On etremely rare occasions."

So how do you make coffee?

"First I buy the best beans and keep them in an airtight container
in my freezer.

Than I grind them right before I brew the coffee."

Why?

"Because the flavor gets weak if you grind the beans too far in advance."

And how do you brew the coffee? An electric percolator?

Michael turned up his nose, "And ruin the coffee? No way. Coffee
must be dripped for perfection."

So you pour the coffee through a filter and brew it?

"Well I only used unbleached filters. I don't want traces of bleach
in my coffee."

Is there a method to pouring the water?

"First it's only spring water and we pour it rather slowly and wait
for the water to seep through the coffee before adding some more."

Than I got to the main question, "Isn't that a lot of work for
coffee?"

He said, "If you care about something, it's worth the extra effort."

That was all the therapy I did.

Next time I saw Michael, he told me he was going to stay and work it
out. He looked at me and winked, "If you care about something, it's
worth the extra effort."

What I did with Michael was called Therapeutic Metaphor.

It's a powerful technque that helps you assist people in changing
their lives.

Not only is it my favorite technique, but it's the one I've spent
a great deal of time perfecting.

The technique was invented by Milton Erickson the legendary hypnotherapist.

But the technique is explained best by his student David Gordon.

You can learn more about it here:

http://www. deleted and you'll never take me alive!

This technique works on bosses, employees, teachers, students, wives,
children - in short everyone.

It's easy to learn when you have the right teacher.

Here's to helping people change.

Dr. Harlan Kilstein

PS. I've got lots more stories about using therapeutic metaphors to
help people change. Hope you get to experience them too.

[David]

According to John Bradshaw famous codependency author from the 80's and Oprah Winfre's personal therapist during the late 80's:

All language is hypnotic.

the fact that a word is a symbol and that symbol is not the thing being described.

If you speak. If you use language, you're using NLP weather you're aware of it or not.

The way I see it, NLP isn't a 'thing'

NLP isn't a fancy form of hypnosis

It isn't a thought process, it isn't a technique, it isn't even a technique that one 'doesn't know how to do now, but will if they take X,Y or Z class'

NLP is simply a description of what we all do naturally.

that said, it'd behoove us to take control of or at least be aware of what we're gonna do anyway.... it's more efficient that way.

NLP is defined as: "The Structure of Subjective Experience"

And we all have subjective experiences even if we like to pretend that subjectivity is a red headed step child

Ok, I'll stop now

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by David

According to John Bradshaw famous codependency author from the 80's and Oprah Winfre's personal therapist during the late 80's:

All language is hypnotic.

I'll go even further.

Someone asked my teacher Dave Dobson if he could point out someone who was in a trance.

Dr. Dobson answered back,

"Can you point out someone who isn't in a trance?"

[lilmechante01]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Oh I could tell you stories about this that would make your head turn like Linda Blair in the Exorcist.

Believe me, I can begin to imagine and it just sickens me to think that these guys are being convinced that this is just a way to learn how to meet and get women.

What amazes me the most is that the guys who are following these "gurus" lead can't step back or realize that the same techniques they are learning to use on women are, at the same time, being employed on them by their "trusted" mentors. And, there are some very intelligent guys who are being pulled into this "community". But, IF these "gurus" REALLY LOVE & APPRECIATE women, and believed themselves that the TRUE LOVE the SOUL seeks REALLY EXISTS then don't you think that they would be helping men learn how to discover and cherish it, rather than selling them ways to control/manipulate women under the pretense of "all the love you "deserve" and could ever dream of having" is possible if you follow me (and get my product). These "gurus" aren't much more than target-marketers who have mastered learning how to craftily employ "mind-control" techniques to sell their ideas/products.

And...she steps down off her soapbox

back to you Harlan

[lilmechante01]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Found it:

Subject Line: How Coffee Saved A Marriage

A number of years ago, Michael, a good friend of mind was
going through a rough time in his marriage.

It wasn't that he and his wife fought.

It was more like guerilla warfare.

It was exhausting to both of them.

Going to marriage counselling didn't work at all.

If anything, it made things worse.

But in a crazy way, they were still madly in love with one another.

I know. It makes no sense at all. But they loved one another even
though they fought all the time.

On one thing they agreed - their kids. They never argued about
their kids.

They argued about finances, where to vacation, what to have for
dinner, what movie to see, what video to rent, and what they
should wear for an evening out.

It was like their fighting was keeping them together.

Until one day, Michael changed. He told me he was tired of fighting.

It was taking too much energy.

He was ready to call it quits and move on.

When I asked him why, his answer was, it was taking too much energy
to fix his marriage.

That's where the coffee came in.

You see this was in the days before green signed coffee shops dotted
the landscapes.

If you wanted a good cup of Java, you brewed it yourself.

So I asked Michael,

Do you drink just any coffee?

"No, I only drink the good stuff."

So you never drink instant?

"Never. I don't even consider it coffee."

What coffee do you drink?

"I like Kona and Jamaica Blue Mountain."

Restaurant coffee?

"On etremely rare occasions."

So how do you make coffee?

"First I buy the best beans and keep them in an airtight container
in my freezer.

Than I grind them right before I brew the coffee."

Why?

"Because the flavor gets weak if you grind the beans too far in advance."

And how do you brew the coffee? An electric percolator?

Michael turned up his nose, "And ruin the coffee? No way. Coffee
must be dripped for perfection."

So you pour the coffee through a filter and brew it?

"Well I only used unbleached filters. I don't want traces of bleach
in my coffee."

Is there a method to pouring the water?

"First it's only spring water and we pour it rather slowly and wait
for the water to seep through the coffee before adding some more."

Than I got to the main question, "Isn't that a lot of work for
coffee?"

He said, "If you care about something, it's worth the extra effort."

That was all the therapy I did.

Next time I saw Michael, he told me he was going to stay and work it
out. He looked at me and winked, "If you care about something, it's
worth the extra effort."

What I did with Michael was called Therapeutic Metaphor.

It's a powerful technque that helps you assist people in changing
their lives.

Not only is it my favorite technique, but it's the one I've spent
a great deal of time perfecting.

The technique was invented by Milton Erickson the legendary hypnotherapist.

But the technique is explained best by his student David Gordon.

You can learn more about it here:

http://www. deleted and you'll never take me alive!

This technique works on bosses, employees, teachers, students, wives,
children - in short everyone.

It's easy to learn when you have the right teacher.

Here's to helping people change.

Dr. Harlan Kilstein

PS. I've got lots more stories about using therapeutic metaphors to
help people change. Hope you get to experience them too.

Absolutely Wonderful Story!

I've used one (albeit not soooo exceptional as yours) with kids regarding peer pressure...especially "underprivileged" kids.

Simplified Version:

Gossip had it that a girl was going to get into a fight, mostly because she was being "egged on" by her friends to do it so I pulled her aside.

If those any of your friends told you "Pay me $20 a day and I'll be your friend", would you do it?
"No"
I inquired, "Why not?" with which she responded, "Why would I pay them to be my friend...that'd be F*d up?" (I've heard that more than once lol)
Then I restated it, "So you tell me that wouldn't pay any of them to be your friend because it's not worth it."
"Yeah, no one's going to tell me I have pay them to be my friend."
Then I gave the "thinker"..."So, tell me ...what the difference is between paying someone to be your friend and beating someone up just because your friends told you they wouldn't be friends with you anymore if you didn't?" It was a beautiful thing to see the moment it sunk in and have her turn to me with the look that said "I never thought of it that way." Then I reaffirmed to her "Friendship is a gift, just like love, and if you have to 'pay' someone by doing something so they will be your friend, then that is not friendship." (And, she ended up not fighting after all...and guess what...they still stayed her friends)

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by lilmechante01

Then I gave the "thinker"..."So, tell me ...what the difference is between paying someone to be your friend and beating someone up just because your friends told you they wouldn't be friends with you anymore if you didn't?" It was a beautiful thing to see the moment it sunk in and have her turn to me with the look that said "I never thought of it that way." Then I reaffirmed to her "Friendship is a gift, just like love, and if you have to 'pay' someone by doing something so they will be your friend, then that is not friendship." (And, she ended up not fighting after all...and guess what...they still stayed her friends)

Ah, here's the key.

In therapeutic metaphor, you never tell them the meaning.

If you do, it's like the old "and the moral of the story is."

But if you don't it forces them to think and...

that's when something wonderous occurs.

And the change may be much more profound.

So the key is, never tell them what the story means.

After all, maybe it means something else and you limited it.

Just a thought.

[Chris Thompson]

Harlan,

First - the coffee metaphor is fantastic. Loved it. Reminds me of my first time reading Erickson's "Joe and the tomato plant" metaphor.

Second - THANK YOU for pointing out the most important aspect of a metaphor. That is, you never, ever, ever explain it to the subject. Explaining it wrecks its power to work at an unconscious level.

[Andyhenry]

This has been an interesting thread.

While I agree with some of the comments made here and John T and I have discussed NLP a lot over the years, I was still left with one feeling about this thread after reading all of the posts so far.......

Harlan - You're proclaiming 'correct' use of NLP and taking an authoritative stance on this - yet you're being so tactless in some of your posts criticizing other people and their approaches that it seems like you're not practicing what you're preaching.

Knowledge of NLP is only as useful as the way you act on it.

I'm familiar with NLP and I do understand your point and agree that it would seem more appropriate for people to discover the nlp environment before learning a few 'tricks' for how to 'use it on people', because it's actually a great tool for personal development as much as it's good for anything else.

I also love the metaphor and I've been using similar tools for helping recovery from illness.

Andy

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Harlan - You're proclaiming 'correct' use of NLP and taking an authoritative stance on this - yet you're being so tactless in some of your posts criticizing other people and their approaches that it seems like you're not practicing what you're preaching.

Andy

I'm not tactless.

I'm passionate.

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by Harlan

I'm not tactless.

I'm passionate.

Fair enough - at least you also have a sense of humour

[Peter Bestel]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Fair enough - at least you also have a sense of humour

Well he made me laugh anyway.

[John Taylor]

Originally Posted by Harlan

I'm passionate.

I wonder, does that result in a lack of precision in your
use of language?

John

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

I wonder, does that result in a lack of precision in your
use of language?

John

That does explain it - When your emotions kick-in, your logical mind clocks-off.

[Harlan]

Neither of you experts have caught any of the NLP patterns I have been using throughout.

Including the reframe in the last post.

Look at the deep structure.

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Neither of you experts have caught any of the NLP patterns I have been using throughout.

Including the reframe in the last post.

Look at the deep structure.

OMG - That's the funniest thing I've read for ages.

Thanks!!!

[John Taylor]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Neither of you experts have caught any of the NLP patterns I have been using throughout.

Including the reframe in the last post.

Look at the deep structure.

If I was evaluating the above response I might say..

"You have no idea what was, or was not, "caught" by anyone reading
or participating in this thread. You're using your own values and
beliefs to filter the communication and passing it off as mind reading."

However, I didn't realise it was a test.

John

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

If I was evaluating the above response I might say..

"You have no idea what was, or was not, "caught" by anyone reading
or participating in this thread. You're using your own values and
beliefs to filter the communication and passing it off as mind reading."

However, I didn't realise it was a test.

John

Don't spoil the fun... he's demonstrating elegant art forms that we can't comprehend.

Just be quiet and learn from the master. (him not me )

[Paul Hancox]

Wow, Psychic NLP! Now there's a product...

{points to sig line}

LOL... you guys crack me up

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

However, I didn't realise it was a test.

John

That's okay. You can always learn from your failures.

[Peter Bestel]

I must thank Steven, the OP, for starting this thread.

I have seen some really funny threads and links to laugh-out-loud YouTube videos on this forum, but this thread beats them all.

Thank you to all that have contributed so far - I hope there's still some gas left as NLP has never been so humorous and we could all do with more laughter in our lives and less taking ourselves so seriously.

Peace

Peter

[John Taylor]

Originally Posted by Harlan

That's okay. You can always learn from your failures.

I've certainly learned a lot from yours.

John

[lilmechante01]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Ah, here's the key.

In therapeutic metaphor, you never tell them the meaning.

If you do, it's like the old "and the moral of the story is."

But if you don't it forces them to think and...

that's when something wonderous occurs.

And the change may be much more profound.

So the key is, never tell them what the story means.

After all, maybe it means something else and you limited it.

Just a thought.

I agree with you on this Harlan and the majority of the time I do leave them with just the thinker. Sometimes though, there is soooo much going on in the "background" with some of the children I deal with that a little affirmation/positive feedback that they realized "the point" is also needed...of course, with a little additional thinker tossed in to get them thinking about other areas of their lives that this might also apply to

Thank you Harlan, I'm sure you've realized by now that I appreciate your thoughts and input
bj

[dv8]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Ah, here's the key.

In therapeutic metaphor, you never tell them the meaning.

If you do, it's like the old "and the moral of the story is."

But if you don't it forces them to think and...

that's when something wonderous occurs.

And the change may be much more profound.

So the key is, never tell them what the story means.

After all, maybe it means something else and you limited it.

Just a thought.

Never tell them because...when someone is told something they sometimes believe it. But a person never doubts what they conclude themselves.

Is this correct?

[williamstarrett]

Thanks Harlan.

No wonder some people take posts so personal and can be doubly open and abrasive in their response. They hear the banter returned in their own voice as they read it- confusing it with their negative self talk.

[Phil Jones]

This is one of the most interesting threads I have read on this forum to date. Thanks for everyone who has posted here. I'm far from an expert on NLP but I've seen this stuff work and I like what I see.

Good stuff guys.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by lilmechante01

Sometimes though, there is soooo much going on in the "background" with some of the children I deal with that a little affirmation/positive feedback that they realized "the point" is also needed...of course, with a little additional thinker tossed in to get them thinking about other areas of their lives that this might also apply to

Hey bj,

Thanks.

This is a big presupposition on your part.

I've worked with metaphor with children as little as two and they got it.

(But they needed the story repeated every night)

See what happens if you don't tell them...

Peace.

[lilmechante01]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Hey bj,

Thanks.

This is a big presupposition on your part.

I've worked with metaphor with children as little as two and they got it.

(But they needed the story repeated every night)

See what happens if you don't tell them...

Peace.

I do the "not tell them" more often than not. Just curious, but do you ever "praise" the children you work with when they get it?

Also, what's your opinion on the thought that NLP can only be effective on someone if the desire to change is there within that person already?

[lilmechante01]

And, since I seem to be in such a curious mood today, I thought I would pose this question to all the certified's on here....and this one's a doosy!

Back to dating and the use of NLP for a sec....

These guys are being taught to use NLP to get women..and even more so, to get them into bed. If a guy is employing "mind-controlling" techniques for the purpose of getting a woman into bed I would think that is unethical because the woman is "hynotically" being "drugged" into submitting to the man. In other words, if the woman wasn't "under the influence" of this guys NLP tactics, then she would more possibly than not, tell him "No".

So, in this case...is there any real difference between a guy using NLP and a date rape drug (other than drugging someone is illegal)?

[Chris Thompson]

I'll chime in here on this.

I'm not in agreement on laying the NLP on thick to pick up women, but it is definitely NOT the equivalent of drugging someone. It is not magic and it is not mind control. Guys who pitch it that way are full of it.

I have a good friend who is really fantastic in conversation and people seem to always be interested in talking to him. Women especially. He has never studied NLP. But perhaps, I'd suggest ... he has unconsciously mastered the same tools

Remember, NLP is just a MODEL. It is not new. It is a description of what OTHER people are already doing to create a successful outcome.

Everyone has access to the toolbox. Some choose to make use of it, some do not.

Remember, there is no such thing as hypnosis. But if there were, then what would it look like

[lilmechante01]

Thank you Chris. It's also another reason why I posted the question before that post about NLP being effective on someone who doesn't already have the same desire (either consciously/subcosciously) for the "intended" outcome.

Originally Posted by Chris Thompson

Remember, there is no such thing as hypnosis. But if there were, then what would it look like

anything You told me it looked like...Remember i would be under your control

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by lilmechante01

I do the "not tell them" more often than not. Just curious, but do you ever "praise" the children you work with when they get it?

Of course. Positive reinforcement? Heck yes.

By the way, my doctorate is in education.

Originally Posted by lilmechante01

Also, what's your opinion on the thought that NLP can only be effective on someone if the desire to change is there within that person already?

I have found they need to desire to change on the subconscious level. Consciously it doesn't matter all that much.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by lilmechante01

So, in this case...is there any real difference between a guy using NLP and a date rape drug (other than drugging someone is illegal)?

I've actually seen this technique in action.

It's not just immoral, it may be illegal as well.

I can't bring myself to share their justification of it.

It doesn't always work but when it does, non-consensual sex can take place.

[lilmechante01]

Originally Posted by Harlan

I've actually seen this technique in action.

It's not just immoral, it may be illegal as well.

I can't bring myself to share their justification of it.

It doesn't always work but when it does, non-consensual sex can take place.

I think it could fall into the illegal category too, but the only thing is being able to prove it since it's not something that could physically be proven.

You're moral so you can't bring yourself to share their justification of it because it's like watching someone intentionally cause another pain.

What I have a hard time understanding is why the "gurus" who are teaching these guys to use it or even giving them a hint at using it in this manner haven't come under the gun for it.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by lilmechante01

What I have a hard time understanding is why the "gurus" who are teaching these guys to use it or even giving them a hint at using it in this manner haven't come under the gun for it.

This stuff isn't taught openly but one on one.

I'm seen it in action and it ain't pretty.

Peace.

[J.Knight]

I read the whole thread.

Interesting.

I'm not an NLP expert, but if 'rapport' is the key of NLP, then why argue? Isn't arguing a lose-lose situation?

JK

[lilmechante01]

Originally Posted by J.Knight

I read the whole thread.

Interesting.

I'm not an NLP expert, but if 'rapport' is the key of NLP, then why argue? Isn't arguing a lose-lose situation?

JK

hmmmm...well it wouldn't be lose-lose if I Win the argument (j/k)

Arguing is not much more than a battle of the egos and it doesn't do much for your body physiologically either. But, if you can walk away from an argument, reflect on it, and learn something from it than haven't you "won"? I'm more of a person who has animated discussions.

We've all seen two people argue before...now imagine what would happen if each of those people was holding up a mirror toward the other?

[J.Knight]

Originally Posted by lilmechante01

hmmmm...well it wouldn't be lose-lose if I Win the argument (j/k)

Arguing is not much more than a battle of the egos and it doesn't do much for your body physiologically either. But, if you can walk away from an argument, reflect on it, and learn something from it than haven't you "won"? I more of the of person who has animated discussions.

We've all seen two people argue before...now imagine what would happen if each of those people was holding up a mirror toward the other?

Yeah, without a doubt you can learn from an argument.

However, it's still an enemy of rapport.

This is one of the principles of 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' is it not? That the only way to win an argument is to not be in one.

JK

P.S. To the person (can't remember who) who mentioned Jamie Smart. I listened to some of his stuff months ago, and I have to say, although I learned some things, I think he might win the award for the 'Most Annoying Voice Ever'.

Ok, I exaggerate. It's annoying nonetheless, and I can't 'imagine' how it helps him achieve his efforts with NLP.

[macknox]

Check out Amazon for a host of NLP books.
The Unfair advantage by D. Larkin presents it for business use.

In my previous real job I had to do a bit of studing on NLP for marketing.
It's all very clever stuff.
Derren Brown is a great exponent of it.

We all use it without knowing it. We use what works and keep using "it".

[lilmechante01]

Originally Posted by J.Knight

I read the whole thread.

Interesting.

I'm not an NLP expert, but if 'rapport' is the key of NLP, then why argue? Isn't arguing a lose-lose situation?

JK

k..i just can't resist...

depends on who you're "arguing" with, 'cuz there's usually a lot of passion infused within the discussion...and in that case, making up can be fun and a win-win for both

[J.Knight]

Originally Posted by macknox

We all use it without knowing it.

This is key point for any who criticise those who advocate NLP principles.

The difference between the guy who uses it without knowing and the guy who uses it deliberately, is simply that one is a student and the other isn't.

I don't think there is anything sinister about NLP at all. I could be wrong though.

JK