Anyone Use NLP Persuasion Techniques?

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by J.Knight

This is key point for any who criticise those who advocate NLP principles.

The difference between the guy who uses it without knowing and the guy who uses it deliberately, is simply that one is a student and the other isn't.

I don't think there is anything sinister about NLP at all. I could be wrong though.

JK

You're not wrong - NLP isn't witchcraft or magic - it's just a framework for looking at the way people communicate (internal, external, verbal, non-verbal etc..) and how an understanding of that can lead to adjusting natural communication towards being more effective for particular things.

If that sounds like a generalisation - it is. There are no boundaries to NLP. Bandler and Grindler just created a starting point - which has been developed in many ways by people since they described it.

It itself it's just a tool - it's not good or bad, but like learning some new information about how the planets move around in the sky - you can find it interesting and leave it at that, or you can spend time observing it for yourself and integrate that knowledge into the way you view things from that point. Maybe you'll change your actions based on that knowledge, maybe not. Maybe you'll just look at how to improve your life with the knowledge, maybe not - or you could even share it with others and let them get what value they can from it. Regardless, it's just a new set of information about the way we perceive things to be.

You can expand on the publicly available information, use it in new ways that people aren't talking or writing about (yet), or just take it as a model and learn the elements that you can see how to apply to make yourself happier.

The main reason NLP gets a bad rap is that there are people who want to 'use it on others', in the same way as hypnosis is viewed.

In reality it can change your life for the better having just integrated a few morsals of the core precepts on which it is founded - but YOU get to choose the effect.

There is a LOT of information about it and many people teaching it, so you'll never be short of information on it. I learned about it in a personal way and then read every book I could get my hands on, joined practice groups, got trained up and then used it in my coaching. Ultimately I now don't consider it anything more than just one tool which can be used in combination with others to improve the results in certain situations. I really only consciously use it for personal development applications for myself and others, but once you integrate new learnings you tend to have them as part of the way you see everything, so I'm sure I use NLP unconsiously in other situations too.

If you're new to it and are interested, I would just advise that you consider anything you read from your own perspective and experience and not try to take on the authors perspective and think you then know it all. Every expert NLPer I meet has their own take on it and I think that's the best way to take it. Make it your own and create your own toolset.

Andy

[spudzz]

As someone who's done a heck of a lot of personal selling in his life then I can say absolutely that the 3 most important elements in any successful sales conversation are:-

1) Rapport
2) Enthusiasm
3) Rhythm

and

4) Confidence (OK, 4 things then)

NLP, to a large degree, seems to be a codification of what the most successful sales professionals have been doing for a long time, usually unconciously. It's always a good joke to see the NLP 'Ticks and Tricks' used on others (Derren Brown's taking money off a bookmaker on a losing bet is the classic) but it always seems so forced (or am I just more aware of what's going on?).

Yes, Frank Kern does use NLP, whether it's deliberate or not, but he seems to major on Rapport. Harlan is an Enthusiast. Mike Filsaime is Confident. Very little of the sales copy I see uses Rhythm at all well. However, put all that lot together and you've got Sales Dynamite!

[J.Knight]

Andy,

I've got a few other books I'm in the middle of right now, but I'll definitely be giving NLP further study at some point.

I think your advice to make what you learn 'your own' is a good call. We're all different characters, and we have to mould the principles around who we already are.

I don't think trying to become a totally different person to incorporate what you learn, is a good idea.

Are there any recommended audios on NLP (like mp3's of seminars, etc)?

JK

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by J.Knight

Andy,

I've got a few other books I'm in the middle of right now, but I'll definitely be giving NLP further study at some point.

I think your advice to make what you learn 'your own' is a good call. We're all different characters, and we have to mould the principles around who we already are.

I don't think trying to become a totally different person to incorporate what you learn, is a good idea.

Are there any recommended audios on NLP (like mp3's of seminars, etc)?

JK

I've got tons of Bandler audios, I like his 'persuasion engineering ones' - he's really funny. He's often very subtle and elegant and often 'not' but he's funny as hell.

I've met Jonathan Alfield a few times and have his audios but he focuses more on the auditory stuff.

In my experience (I've bought lots of crap NLP stuff too), the closer to stick to the original material the better it tends to be, so look at how NLP started and who's work it was based on and go from there.

Different people focus it in different ways, so some good guys focus on 'nlp in business', or therapy, or personal development, so find a couple of people who are focused on the aspect that relates more to your own interest and go with them. Just about every book you read will lead you onto other people and material.

Every time I read one book - I buy 5 more

Andy

[J.Knight]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Every time I read one book - I buy 5 more

That's a dangerous blackhole!

Thanks for the info dude.

JK

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by J.Knight

That's a dangerous blackhole!

Thanks for the info dude.

JK

not only that - I've been in Singapore a couple of months so now I've bought more books since I've been here than my entire luggage allowance gives me when I go back to the UK next month. I'm gonna need to ship the books home separately - and I've been traveling a lot so I've bought less than usual

I bought 3 more within an hour of getting off the plane today. I think I'm addicted to learning.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by spudzz

Yes, Frank Kern does use NLP, whether it's deliberate or not, but he seems to major on Rapport.

Laughing.

Yes, it's deliberate.

We talk from time to time.

I send him my NLP stuff. He uses it.

Absolutely brilliantly.

His use of anchoring in his videos promoting the Mass Control Monthly was freaking out of this world.

He studies this stuff.

And he probably lies about all the surfing he does.

Peace.

PS. Now he'll probably come on the board to deny he uses it.

[J.Knight]

Originally Posted by Harlan

PS. Now he'll probably come on the board to deny he uses it.

I've seen him on video at a live seminar, and he admitted to using NLP.

Kern uses his 'image' powerfully.

So does Jeff Walker, with his ultra 'aw schucks' image.

Some of these guys have an image which is just too... convenient.

It's great!

JK

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by J.Knight

I've seen him on video at a live seminar, and he admitted to using NLP.

Kern uses his 'image' powerfully.

So does Jeff Walker, with his ultra 'aw schucks' image.

Some of these guys have an image which is just too... convenient.

It's great!

JK

First, I know both Jeff and Frank and...

they really ARE their image. They didn't create it.

Some IM gurus have a stage image but aren't that way in real life.

Kern really is funny and crazy and would rather surf than work.

But both Jeff and Frank are super-smart business people.

What surprises me is that more marketers don't use NLP to convey their message.

Peace

[John Rowe]

Originally Posted by Harlan

• You're doing the stuff I write against.
• It's using NLP as a party trick.
• NLP should be much more elegant.
• This is grade school NLP crap.
• John and Richard were never my favorite NLP teachers anyway.
• Dave didn't think much of the language patterns you used.
• In my life, I have returned only one book - Igors. Pure crap.
• Go back to your teacher and say, "I'm missing a piece."
• I taught NLP Copywriting I with all of the big name copywriters there.
• Shut up Dave.
• Can you get my point here?
• You would all buy my product.
• Neither of you experts caught any of the NLP patterns I have been using.
• That's okay. You can always learn from your failures.
• I've worked with metaphor with children as little as two and they got it.
• By the way, my doctorate is in education.
• I've seen it in action and it ain't pretty.
• Visual, auditory, and kinesthetic words in copy does not work.

You know, certain parts of this thread remind me of something I experienced late one night last year in Louisiana.

I was sitting alone in a pub enjoying a beer when one of the band members walked up to the bar and sat down beside me. He caught the bartender’s eye and said, can I getta beer over here? Then he placed his trumpet next to me on the bar and asked if I knew how to play. I said, no. He handed it to me anyway and said, go on and givher a try. What do I do, I asked. He said, justa blow hard. So I did. Then I left the bar.

My car was parked at the grocery store across the street. It was raining. A boy and his mother were getting into a minivan parked next to me. The boy had a cold. His mother kindly held a Kleenex to his nose while he asked, what do I gotta do now mama? She said, justa blow hard. So he did. Then I started my car and drove away.

A few miles later, the police were blocking the road to check for drunks behind the wheel. I rolled down my window. The cop noticed beer on my breath, and said, how many yahad tonight? I said, three. He showed me a little plastic tube and said, ever take thishere test before? No, I said, what do I do? It's easy, he said. Justa blow hard. So I did. Then I drove home and went to bed.

Resting there, I suddenly had the urge to wake up my girlfriend, to tell her about my night. So I did. I told her about the Trumpet Player, the Little Boy, and the Cop. Then, as if by magic, I started telling her about Harlan.

[lilmechante01]

Originally Posted by John Rowe

You know, this thread reminds me of something that happened to me a while back.

I was sitting alone in a pub one night enjoying a beer when a band member walked up to the bar and sat down beside me. He ordered a drink and placed his trumpet on the bar. He asked me if I knew how to play. I said, no. He handed it to me and said, try it. What do I do, I asked. He said, just blow hard. So I did. Then I left the bar.

My car was parked at the grocery store across the street. It was raining. A boy and his mother were getting into a minivan parked next to me. The boy had a cold. His mother kindly held a Kleenex to his nose and he asked, what do I do mama? She said, just blow hard. So he did. Then I started my car and drove away.

A few miles later, the police were blocking the road to check for drunks behind the wheel. I rolled down my window. The cop noticed beer on my breath, and said, how many tonight? I said, three. He showed me a little plastic tube and said, ever take this test before? No, I said, what do I do? He said, It's easy. Just blow hard. So I did. Then I drove home and went to bed.

Resting there, I noticed the strange theme that had worked it's way through my evening. So I woke up my girlfriend and I told her about the Trumpet Player, the Little Boy, and the Cop. Then, as if by magic, I started telling her about Harlan.

LMAO! you got my imagination & brought up some fond memories with that one!

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by John Rowe

He said, justa blow hard. So I did. Then I left the bar.

Wow that's some dream.

I've known you as a blow hard since I read your first post.

I didn't need to dream about it.

Must be my secret remote viewing power dot com.

[John Rowe]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Wow that's some dream. I've known you as a blow hard
since I read your first post. I didn't need to dream about it.

Dream? Pay attention will ya... oh masterful one.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by John Rowe

Dream? Pay attention will ya... oh masterful one.

Thanks for being the first on my ignore list.

[John Rowe]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Thanks for being the first on my ignore list.

Smart move.

[lilmechante01]

wow! I go away for a few and all heck breaks loose! I'm gonna respectfully acknowledge both of you guys and your views... & go hide in the neutral corner. And, yes, Harlan, I still appreciate and adore you
Namaste,
bj

[kevindawson]

Originally Posted by MeTellYou

Harlan Kilstein *excuse me for the spelling...) uses NLP. He claims to be very successful, but who doesn't?

Dr. Kilstein'stuff on NLP is awesome. I'd recommend his NLP Copywriting I and II.

I always wondered why I wanted to buy his stuff when he wrote about it. It's because of him I became a copywriter! He's done a lot for my career.

[SeanIM]

Originally Posted by Harlan

That's okay. You can always learn from your failures.

Hmm, I thought I had heard somewhere in NLP land that

"There is no such thing as failure, only feedback."

[dianarupert]

Originally Posted by Teenage Genius

I have been reading up on Covert-Hypnosis and NeuroLinguistic Programming (NLP)

Though Subliminal Messaging for use in advertisements is illegal, i think. Has/does anyone use any of the techniques taught by NLP practitioners to sell products.

I think EVERYONE should use the techniques to build a great Rapport with their customers. But what about things like anchoring, or asking people to visualize.

I could see these techniques working great, if you could somehow anchor your page/product with someones feeling of happiness or excitment - this would help your sales surely.

Im sure this would be quite difficult, and im not sure if its aloud, but im also sure it would go under the radar.

Any thoughts on this?

How do you exactly do this technique?

[Bruce Wedding]

No I DO not.

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by dianarupert

How do you exactly do this technique?

It's not a technique.

This is just simple psychological knowledge used to support having people feel good about something they already like and then integrating your product into what they associate with that feeling so that next time they see your product they remember to feel good without those other things being needed.

This is just old marketing stuff, it's nothing new.

Remember companies like Coke, Budweiser etc... there's almost always a song, a celebrity,a child etc. in all of their adverts because they know a lot of people like those things, so they're associating your likes with their product.

This has been done for decades, it's simple.

But I don't advise you do this if you don't understand what you're doing as you'll end up with a bad implementation because you're trying to 'use it on people' rather than integrating the knowledge into your processes.

Harlan obviously teaches this stuff so why not just by his stuff and learn from him?

I only cover these things with my mentoring clients because I don't want people scratching the surface and thinking they understand it and never getting a good proportion of the understanding of how it can be used.

Andy

[tommyfocus]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Bandler never sold a car in his life.

When Bandler teaches most of it is "tall tales" he uses to install states in the audience.

You didn't believe the stories did you?

For B & G, change is all about state.

Change the state and you change the person. That's why the Physiology of Excellence is all about.

(I only threw that in because you accused me of pitching product and since I didn't, I might as well not miss the opportunity to make a buck.)

My friend and co-teacher Kenrick Cleveland teaches on Max Persuasion that you can "get away" with a lot of things with NLP.

But the day you get caught red handed trying to manipulate someone, you'll never forget the spanking you will get verbally or non-verbally.

David Blaine the magician recently performed an amazing feat of magic suspending himself upside down in Central Park.

People were astounded until picture appeared of him taking long breaks.

Then he was going to disappear in front of everyone.

Except his stage crew forgot to wind up his bungee cord and he was caught swinging back and forth looking rather stupid.

Sometimes you get away with it and sometimes you get nailed.

John and Richard were never my favorite NLP teachers anyway.

My favorite "official" NLP teacher is David Gordon - now he is artistry in action.

And my favorite "un-official" NLP teacher was the late Dave Dobson. A cranky old S.O.B., the sneaky bastard changed people way below the radar with such elegance, such art, and such compassion I'll always wonder how much more I could have learned from him.

Dave didn't think much of the language patterns you used.

About embedded commands he once said, "the only time I want to use in bedded commands is in bed with a woman."

I miss the bastard and he hasn't been gone a year.

Any way, back to your story.

Bandler was installing states through brute force.

He could be so freaken elegant as he is in some of his recordings or when he wasn't high on cocaine.

All of his live trainings - and especially Persuasion Engineering - are metaphoric.

It can be reduced to: Induce Wanton Buying State - point in the direction of product.

How you do it separates elegance from blunt object.

At NLP Copywriting I David Garfinkel did one of the exercises in the class with such elegance that when he finished reading it, everyone in the room wanted to buy what he wrote and he didn't even have a product in mind.

Now that was artistry.

And I propose all people who use NLP strive to reach that level.

Especially one who aspires to teach it to others.

So there are people who can teach NLP better than the creators (RB and JG)??? lol
Didn't your friend, Kenrick Cleveland, get certified ( all the way up to trainer) by Richard Bandler?? Who taught David Gordon?? lol
Since Bandler is the co creator of the field you claim expertise on, should not he and John Grinder really be the ones who determines what is consider elegant or not??
I say this, because it is pure comedy to hear second and third generations nlp practitioner claim superiority to Richard Bandler and John Grinder. All the greats; Wyatt Woodsmall, Tad James, Tony Robbins, Eric Robbie, Kenrick Cleveland, etc was trained by Richard or John. That ought to tell you something about the ability their to teach and their effectiveness.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by tommyfocus

So there are people who can teach NLP better than the creators (RB and JG)??? lol
Didn't your friend, Kenrick Cleveland, get certified ( all the way up to trainer) by Richard Bandler?? Who taught David Gordon?? lol
Since Bandler is the co creator of the field you claim expertise on, should not he and John Grinder really be the ones who determines what is consider elegant or not??
I say this, because it is pure comedy to hear second and third generations nlp practitioner claim superiority to Richard Bandler and John Grinder. All the greats; Wyatt Woodsmall, Tad James, Tony Robbins, Eric Robbie, Kenrick Cleveland, etc was trained by Richard or John. That ought to tell you something about the ability their to teach and their effectiveness.

There are definately people who can teach NLP better than Bandler & Grinder.

B&G taught basic NLP better than anyone when they were a team. I have some old audios of them working together.

But over the years, Bandler wouldn't let Grinder speak (I have it on tape) and they split up.

Bandler's drug use and his murder trial didn't do anything to advance his credibility.

Bandler went into his DHE mode and Grander went into his New Code.

Neither of them are teaching NLP today.

Pick up any recent article Grinder has written. Read it. I rest my case.

Bandler today is great entertainment but not great NLP.

His one on one sessions are amazing but his group work is old recycled trash.

For all his work with sub-modalities, they were discovered and developed by David Gordon.

Who got punched in the mouth by Bandler.

Yeah, there are better teachers out there.

[Eric Lorence]

Originally Posted by Kyle Tully

The more you use NLP Persuasion Techniques the more persuasive you will become

Profound... ;p