Why Do People Follow Blatant Liars??

34 replies
The title should really be...why do they BUY from liars?

Okay I've had it and I think there should be some way that marketers should be punished...isnt lying in sales copy to your customer against FTC guidelines or something?

You know those emails...last night they send it out "hey 20 people can purchase this only" next morning, "well we filled all 20 but we're gonna let another 20 in" later that night SAME EXACT EMAIL AS LAST NIGHT! (I'm just on a few different lists of this person.)

Now, its not about just unsubscribing...I follow people to get new copy ideas. But I would NEVER EVER lie to my customers!!

How can people get away with this? And how BAD is your product that you have to lie to get people to buy??

I mean I know that they wouldn't build an entire website just to sell only 20 people a $97 product. But obviously people are falling for it... Its sad, eh?
#blatant #follow #liars #people
  • Profile picture of the author theturd
    i don't think creating a sense of urgency is a lie
    in fact i think it is a great method to get conversions
    now blatant lies about the product itself may be some sort of violation
    but the risk reward for people to to it is obviously slanted towards taking the risk that is why we see so many questionable offers IMO
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    • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
      Originally Posted by theturd View Post

      i don't think creating a sense of urgency is a lie
      in fact i think it is a great method to get conversions
      now blatant lies about the product itself may be some sort of violation
      but the risk reward for people to to it is obviously slanted towards taking the risk that is why we see so many questionable offers IMO
      It might be a great method to get conversions but it is still a lie. When you say you're only going to sell 20 copies and you sell hundreds of copies and know right from the start that you do in fact intend to sell more than 20 copies - yes that's a lie!

      Having said that, it is a lie that many, many marketers use and it probably does help to convert, at least to those people who aren't internet marketers and don't realise that it is a lie.

      It does devalue true limited offers though and that is the sad part of it, those who do have genuine limited numbers and say so in their sales copy are unlikely to be believed because it is so widely used as a lie.

      As far as why do people buy from them - well if they have a good product and you want that product you are going to buy it regardless of whether they have the limited qty lie on their page or not. It certainly won't stop people from buying from them.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

        It might be a great method to get conversions but it is still a lie. When you say you're only going to sell 20 copies and you sell hundreds of copies and know right from the start that you do in fact intend to sell more than 20 copies - yes that's a lie!

        Having said that, it is a lie that many, many marketers use and it probably does help to convert, at least to those people who aren't internet marketers and don't realise that it is a lie.

        It does devalue true limited offers though and that is the sad part of it, those who do have genuine limited numbers and say so in their sales copy are unlikely to be believed because it is so widely used as a lie.

        Actually, it helps those who have true limited offers. True...those who lie about scarcity/urgency may create a bunch of skeptics that decrease your CONVERSION RATE short term.

        But if you're offer is truly limited, a lower conversion rate isn't that big of deal (other than MAYBE increasing your cost of customer acquisition or perhaps hurting your ego), since you're going to sell out anyway.

        But once people realize that you're STONE COLD SERIOUS in your scarcity/urgency claims, you have that reputation from that point forward. Which will increase your conversion rates in the long run.

        See the liars/fakes as what they are...an OPPORTUNITY to solidify your reputation. Use it as a selling point.
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by theturd View Post

      i don't think creating a sense of urgency is a lie
      in fact i think it is a great method to get conversions
      now blatant lies about the product itself may be some sort of violation
      but the risk reward for people to to it is obviously slanted towards taking the risk that is why we see so many questionable offers IMO
      Creating a sense of urgency isn't a lie; lying about it is a lie. If you say you're only going to sell 50, but you fully intend to sell 500, you are a liar.
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  • Profile picture of the author theory expert
    Banned
    People buy from liars because they inheirently want to believe. Heck when you know noone else, but, the perceived marketer. You tend to believe because you have noone else to believe in.

    Winner by default.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wonderful Warrior
    I don't think the fact that there are "only 20 left" is the only reason someone is buying the product.

    If you want people to buy you have to cerate urgency or else they most likely never will.

    Barbara Streisand sold out over 20 different "final performance ever"..

    And then even a few more years down the line.

    Although it's not right, people do it all the time.

    But I think it's a huge difference telling a lie of "last performance ever" than showing up and seeing Brittany Spears Instead.

    ....Still wrong... I know... I hate it...
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    False scarcity will kill your future sales.

    If you are going to do scarcity, but want to keep selling, do so by taking away a bonus, or by increasing the price. You can even do so in small intervals, sorta like a dime sale.

    Regardless, you reward the action takers and train your customers that when you say "DONE" you mean "DONE" and they had better act now!

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      False scarcity will kill your future sales.

      If you are going to do scarcity, but want to keep selling, do so by taking away a bonus, or by increasing the price. You can even do so in small intervals, sorta like a dime sale.

      Regardless, you reward the action takers and train your customers that when you say "DONE" you mean "DONE" and they had better act now!

      Rob
      I completely agree.

      The short term greed of continuing to make sales when a product is supposed to be sold out, is costly in the long run as next time round scarcity is used it will be far less effective.

      Especially if the next product is promoted to the same group of people.
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  • Profile picture of the author Recession_Proof
    I think people follow for 2 reasons.

    1. They want to get ideas for ebooks or sales copy.
    2. They are just starting in IM.
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  • Profile picture of the author JennSpencerIM
    I'm sure other people do it too, but I just don't get the point...its lying because its not true. You can do scarcity in other ways and not lie to your customers.

    I think it devalues the truly limited offers.

    Maybe I'm just naive, but I believe there are plenty of ways to market well without writing 100% false emails...
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    But once people realize that you're STONE COLD SERIOUS in your scarcity/urgency claims, you have that reputation from that point forward. Which will increase your conversion rates in the long run.

    See the liars/fakes as what they are...an OPPORTUNITY to solidify your reputation. Use it as a selling point.
    Yes I guess you're right, I didn't think of it in that way. But the problem is that many buyers might not know your past or your good reputation and automatically assume your limited numbers is a lie.
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  • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
    There is a slight, but important difference between:

    "I am only letting 20 people in", and
    "I will only ever let in 20 people".

    The second one promises a strict limit.

    The first one allows some wiggle room, assuming there's a good reason. "I want more money" doesn't really count, but it's often used, unfortunately.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      There's a thread elsewhere on this forum where a marketer is caught out in a lie. They dismiss it as a white lie and say it's not very important anyway.

      To me, it was a massive lie because what they lied about was the basis for their credibility for what they were trying to sell.

      Then a couple of 'happy customers' come in and say, "Lay off, this is a good person. I know them personally - great marketer and I made loadsamoney from their products".

      And the key word 'loadsamoney' overcomes buyers' reservations.

      Martin
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    • Profile picture of the author Raydal
      Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

      There is a slight, but important difference between:

      "I am only letting 20 people in", and
      "I will only ever let in 20 people".

      The second one promises a strict limit.

      The first one allows some wiggle room, assuming there's a good reason. "I want more money" doesn't really count, but it's often used, unfortunately.

      I think you make a great point here. A lot of time the language gives
      the marketer wiggle room to do the opposite of what the reader
      "thought" he meant.

      For example I've seen one marketer who sells his products using the
      same appeal of being the LAST TIME you may get this product at
      this incredible price.

      The word "may" makes all the difference even though you'll come away
      with the impression that if you don't buy now you'll miss out forever.

      Some people are donwnright dishonest for sure, but most marketers
      inject a false scarcity to get people buying.

      For me now, I'm too honest to say this is the last time you can get
      this price and still continue selling at that same price even after
      the limit even if I have to raise the price by a penny (which would
      still be deceptive.)

      -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Some marketers lie and some marketers don't lie. Most people know that, so why the big surprise when you get a fake scarcity email?

    I'm only on one list and he doesn't lie ... ever. You don't like a marketer's tactics, get off the list? That's BS that you're on it for the copy if the copy is a lie ... then you wouldn't be interested in the copy anyway.

    Some buyers are gullible and want to believe the lies. Some buyers will only buy products that are selling a lie. Give them a good honest deal with no false promises and it's like ... pffft ... big deal. Who wants that.

    You can't change Internet Marketing or any marketing for that matter. Don't like the lies ... unsubscribe or don't buy.
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    • Profile picture of the author JennSpencerIM
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Some marketers lie and some marketers don't lie. Most people know that, so why the big surprise when you get a fake scarcity email?

      I'm only on one list and he doesn't lie ... ever. You don't like a marketer's tactics, get off the list? That's BS that you're on it for the copy if the copy is a lie ... then you wouldn't be interested in the copy anyway.

      Some buyers are gullible and want to believe the lies. Some buyers will only buy products that are selling a lie. Give them a good honest deal with no false promises and it's like ... pffft ... big deal. Who wants that.

      You can't change Internet Marketing or any marketing for that matter. Don't like the lies ... unsubscribe or don't buy.

      That's baloney. Just unsubscribing isn't the answer..would I have any marketing guru left to follow??! hah probably not!

      I think there needs to be a lot more done to hold liars accountable. In an industry where their actions make it tougher for the true marketers to actually gain the confidence of buyers who have been lied to and jerked around by others, I'm going to help change the industry for the better. And it seems that there are plenty others who agree.
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      • Profile picture of the author Vogin
        My honor forbids me to lie about anything serious and I find it sad that any sort of lie has a place in the business world.

        Personally, whenever I see something like a ticking clock, bold number or have only the next 10 minutes, I happily bookmark the page and return the next day - only to see the "limited offer" again. I smile, leave and use it as a funny example in my articles...
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      • Profile picture of the author LeeSteese
        Good luck with that.
        The majority of the guru's are selling a dream to people who want to believe in the tooth fairy, nothing more, nothing less. The industry won't change much as long as the buyers don't. Simply look at the top gravity products on CB or some of the junk sold in the WSO section here on the WF and it will tell you all you need to know about the products people want to buy. Clayton Makepeace said it best the other day in one of his articles "Nobody ever went broke by UNDERestimating the intelligence of the average American"


        Originally Posted by JennSpencerIM View Post

        That's baloney. Just unsubscribing isn't the answer..would I have any marketing guru left to follow??! hah probably not!

        I think there needs to be a lot more done to hold liars accountable. In an industry where their actions make it tougher for the true marketers to actually gain the confidence of buyers who have been lied to and jerked around by others, I'm going to help change the industry for the better. And it seems that there are plenty others who agree.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
    Did you read Seth Godin's "All Marketers are Liars?" ;-)

    But in reality, it is marketed as marketers being liars, but immediately switches to the fact that consumers tell themselves lies to justify their actions. Marketers who can find the bias and lies people tell themselves and create a story around fitting that worldview can make large sums of profit.
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  • Profile picture of the author MassiveMarketer
    I totally agree with you. It's just simply saying you're deceiving your customers. But I guess for them it's a strategy to get more people to go for their products. It all depends now on the customer, will they take the bait or walk away.
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  • Profile picture of the author RichardHK
    You can blame your brain more than the lying marketer! If you don't know yet, and you really should, it's all about influence and persuasion.

    Read this excellent, no brilliant DoshDosh blog posting on 11 ways to influence your visitors. It's all in the classic books on topic. Search these forums for refs. Robert Cialdini's Influence: Science and Practice is a great book if you want to go deeper than the easier-to-read book that DoshDosh is reviewing and commenting on.

    On topic of lying, I tuned into one of those awful IM videos where you don't know how long it will be, and no controls to pause, etc. The host Ryan De*** lied through his teeth at the start and said it would be 17 minutes long. Nice I thought, but it then went on and on for over 45 minutes. Don't know exactly how long cos I just ignored it after about 20 mins, turned it down, and did something else while verbal-diarrhoa Dei** rambled on. Liar? Yep. I am not tuning into any more of his stuff. Lost a follower - unsubscribed.
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    • Profile picture of the author ElMundodelExito
      Originally Posted by RichardHK View Post


      On topic of lying, I tuned into one of those awful IM videos where you don't know how long it will be, and no controls to pause, etc. The host Ryan De*** lied through his teeth at the start and said it would be 17 minutes long. Nice I thought, but it then went on and on for over 40 minutes. Don't know exactly how long cos I just ignored it after about 20 mins, turned it down, and did something else while verbal-diarrhoa Dei** rambled on. Liar? Yep. I am not tuning into any more of his stuff. Lost a follower.
      My pastor always do that, he said I am almost done and keeps going on and on. Is he lying? or just does not know how long is gonna take him?

      Most of the people that I get emails from are millonaires or make thousands of dollars a month with IM. I was thinking the other day, are they all lying to me or is this true? I want to believe but I do not know. I would never lie to my customers, I create a sense of urgency without lying.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    I've seen many WSO'ers do it...only 30 copies...down to 10...last 3...OK we are opening another 50....

    I would NEVER touch a product from them....

    The fact is most people will push things as far as they can get away with.
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    • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
      To a degree, people should be able to pick out which scarcity offers are legit.

      If it is a scarcity offer for a digital product such as PLR content that the author wants to control the distribution of, a live workshop or personal coaching in which time is limited for the seller then I can see it.

      If it is simply a distributable digital product then I don't take it seriously and I make a mental note of the seller because I consider it a reflection of their intelligence.
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  • Profile picture of the author CliveG
    Marketers use copy that sells. And that is all some of them care about. It is as simple as that.

    Of course some people don't like that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      I use scarcity almost 100% of the time with my products.

      When I say ONLY, I mean ONLY.

      Once you build a reputation of somebody who keeps his word, it becomes
      a very effective tactic.

      Just the other day, I got an email from a potential customer who missed out
      on one of my sales by hours. He was disappointed, but not upset because
      he knows I keep my word and said he'll catch the next one.

      IMO, those who use false scarcity will eventually lose loyal old customers and
      will have to keep replacing their list constantly.

      I think it's called churn and burn.

      I don't play that game because building a quality list is hard work and takes
      too much time.

      But some marketers just don't get it.

      Look at it this way, the more people who lie, the better it is for the ones
      who are honest.

      So, IMO, let them lie.
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      • Profile picture of the author grumpyjacksa
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I use scarcity almost 100% of the time with my products.

        When I say ONLY, I mean ONLY.

        Once you build a reputation of somebody who keeps his word, it becomes
        a very effective tactic.

        Just the other day, I got an email from a potential customer who missed out
        on one of my sales by hours. He was disappointed, but not upset because
        he knows I keep my word and said he'll catch the next one.

        IMO, those who use false scarcity will eventually lose loyal old customers and
        will have to keep replacing their list constantly.

        I think it's called churn and burn.

        I don't play that game because building a quality list is hard work and takes
        too much time.

        But some marketers just don't get it.

        Look at it this way, the more people who lie, the better it is for the ones
        who are honest.

        So, IMO, let them lie.
        steven....

        yes and no

        those who lie do eventually put themselves out of business...

        but if it happened fast enough, we would have a much faster turnover of politicians.....

        and insurance salespeople, used car salespeople.....

        (talking from experience...)

        but u r right....

        lying to get sales (or signups) is just not a sustainable business model.

        some or other time, the cracks start showing - and once your credibility is shot, so is your business.

        just my 0.02c
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  • People buy from lairs because they want to believe... even beyond their -lack of- common sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author forfun_cash
    LOL i got the same emails too. From this so called 'guru'.. m.... b.....

    They make make money by promising to make people money. It's quite sad.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lee Ruleman
    Creating a sense of urgency has been a tactic that has been successfully used in all forms of marketing. I do not think of it as a blatant lie, but do believe that it is ethically borderline. Saying the "first 50 to reply get x" is fine, but when the same ad is sent the next day for the next 50 a business loses my respect.

    What really gets me ticked off are stores like Wal-mart, K-mart etc sending out a sales insert that says something like "56 inch LCD TV $299.97", then in the ultra fine print you see that only 2 of said model will be sent to each store.

    Just my 2 cents

    Lee
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Vincenzo Oliva View Post

      Did you read Seth Godin's "All Marketers are Liars?" ;-)

      But in reality, it is marketed as marketers being liars, but immediately switches to the fact that consumers tell themselves lies to justify their actions. Marketers who can find the bias and lies people tell themselves and create a story around fitting that worldview can make large sums of profit.
      I think this is the answer to the original question, which wasn't "why do some marketers lie"...

      People follow blatant liars because the liars are telling them what they want to hear or what they already believe.

      For those who think using the fake scarcity thing is okay, I got two words for you...

      Joe Kumar
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
      Originally Posted by Lee Ruleman View Post

      Creating a sense of urgency has been a tactic that has been successfully used in all forms of marketing. I do not think of it as a blatant lie, but do believe that it is ethically borderline. Saying the "first 50 to reply get x" is fine, but when the same ad is sent the next day for the next 50 a business loses my respect.

      What really gets me ticked off are stores like Wal-mart, K-mart etc sending out a sales insert that says something like "56 inch LCD TV $299.97", then in the ultra fine print you see that only 2 of said model will be sent to each store.

      Just my 2 cents

      Lee
      The staff usually get them as well. When Wii Fit was released, a local store tried to pull the wool over my eyes and said they had none.

      So... I logged onto their internal stock system on my phone (long story) and showed them they had five in the the back...

      Suddenly they agreed, and went and got me one.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    In some cases - in my opinion - this amounts to down right thievery. Because in some of these products, the value lies in it's scarcity. I may decide to buy or not buy based on how many items are going to be sold. It has nothing to do w/ "urgency" and everything to do w/ it's perceived value.

    For instance, if someone is selling a good idea for making money. There's a chance that too many people knowing the idea will greatly dilute the success rate. So the product is worth more - the less people know about it. So if I buy a product because of a promised sell limit, and then the seller sells more than what he promised, he's taking money out of my pocket, and everyone he/she sold the product to.
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