Can't believe what this guy is telling people

CurtisN

14 years ago

I would unsubscribe and move on.

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Dan C. Rinnert

14 years ago

Originally Posted by maggie2

What would you do in this kind of situation?

Ironically, I just wrote a blog post on this sort of thing. Not this webinar specifically, but the quick 'n' dirty product creation method.

I've seen too many eBooks that are put together like that. Too many. Often they are easy to spot and, if you're looking at them from a buyer's perspective, you don't have a high opinion of them.

I'd rather spend some time on the book and improve my odds of people buying a second book from me rather than just look for one-off sales and a bad name.

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Ldimilo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

Ironically, I just wrote a blog post on this sort of thing. Not this webinar specifically, but the quick 'n' dirty product creation method.

I've seen too many eBooks that are put together like that. Too many. Often they are easy to spot and, if you're looking at them from a buyer's perspective, you don't have a high opinion of them.

I'd rather spend some time on the book and improve my odds of people buying a second book from me rather than just look for one-off sales and a bad name.

Man, I second that. All past business practices are and will be used against you (or for you) in the future.

You can use music industry examples or even book publishing examples to see that your business should be one that slowly builds over time....not one-and-done's formulated for quick money at the expense of your name.

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Janice Sperry

14 years ago

I don't know how you could sit through a 1 1/2 hour webinar about this. I would never have made it 5 minutes. You are right that it is "destructive advice" and I would add worthless.

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shermancox

14 years ago

lol...I don't know about that webinar, but it reminds me of a growing number of approaches that seem to assume that filling up Amazon with "books" written without much effort is a viable business model.

Like Curtis said...unsubscribe and move on...

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Mike Murphy 14 years ago

It's a bummer that he's selling crappy scraped information and it's very noble that you want to seek him out and "fix" the problem, but he's not building a real sustainable business and will likely be gone soon.

In the time it takes you to chase him down and get your message across, what could you do in YOUR business that would bring you closer to your goals and dreams?
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Ron Douglas

14 years ago

Originally Posted by maggie2

This is extremely destructive advice to anyone. I've seen enough PLR books that work that way and they often have repeat information in them, they have mistakes in them, poor grammar, sometimes broken links, and more.

I guess it depends on the quality of the PLR. Can you confirm that it actually had poor grammar, broken links, and more?

Another point is, if the author/publisher really cared about his book, he'd take the time to edit it and not just publish crap. Should the finger be pointed at the software maker or the author?

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Lance K 14 years ago

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- Kay King 14 years ago
  
  I'm not clear whether the guy was giving advice - or selling software to scrape and reformat articles.
  
  Either way - I wouldn't have lasted 90 minutes myself.
  
  I'm thinking about contacting the "guru" who did the webinar and suggesting that he is doing a disservice to anyone who doesn't know any better than to follow this advice.
  
  Why waste more time on the guy? He knows what he's doing and we can't make everyone conform to our definitions of right or wrong. We can avoid doing business with them and advise others not to use such methods unless they know what they are doing.
  
  kay
  
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Rock Solid

14 years ago

Destructive advice sure is a nice way to put it... What the hell could he talk about for an hour and a half!?!?! He could of made 9 books in that time. What a waste of time! Sheesh!

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John Durham

14 years ago

Grammer and spelling have nothing to do with the value of info being imparted but... yeah I get your point.

Originally Posted by maggie2

Last night I sat through a 1 1/2 hour webinar where this guy was spouting off about how you could create a book in 10 minutes time and sell it through Createspace and Amazon and make tons of money.

There was some software that picked up articles on a topic and formatted them into a book form. Then the book was uploaded to Createspace and bam...you had a book ready to sell.

This is extremely destructive advice to anyone. I've seen enough PLR books that work that way and they often have repeat information in them, they have mistakes in them, poor grammar, sometimes broken links, and more.

Someone might buy your book from Amazon once it was up for sale, but if it was crappy you'd get a lousy review and you could really ruin your reputation by doing this kind of thing. I hope that others who listened to this webinar realize that and don't do this.

I know that one of the things that IM is all about is speed and auto-pilot, but this is a sure way to give yourself a bad name and once you have a bad name, you're done in.

I'm thinking about contacting the "guru" who did the webinar and suggesting that he is doing a disservice to anyone who doesn't know any better than to follow this advice.

What would you do in this kind of situation?

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davidjames42973 14 years ago

I know exactly what product you're talking about and I totally agree 100%. Just go onto Amazon Digital and search the Ebooks for sale. You'll find 20 versions of the same PLR Ebook just with a different authors name.

Who's going to buy crappy books like this? A bunch of articles turned into a book? Lame...
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maggie2

14 years ago

Hey you guys,

Thanks for the advice. I am movin' on. It's good to see that there are so many people here who have a conscience and wouldn't use that kind of a tactic.

And to answer the question...yes, he was promoting the 'scraping' software!

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4morereferrals

14 years ago

Haha ....i saw the recording. it was interesting.

I thought it was more about creating books that were promotional items - not to make $$$ from the sale of the books per se.

And please ... lets not all get on our Quality Content High Horses ... Ive stumbled across many a marketers articles on EZA and in the serps - and 50% of them are vomit inducing Bio-Box SPAM.

I never knew 1 guy could be an expert author on Ring Worm, Homeopathic Acne Cures, Genital Herpes relief secrets, Puppy Potty Training, and how to make $750 a minute with CPA offers!

bahhhh ....

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tpw

14 years ago

I can't believe most people commented on your post, without knowing what you were really talking about...

And I cannot believe that you are willing to toss the baby with the bath water...

I had to hold up before responding to this thread, because I started listening to that webinar last night and paused it to finish today... I wanted to finish the webinar, before I responded to you here...

There was a lot of really good info in that program...

There was also some bad info in that program...

Should you be publishing PLR content on Amazon? Certainly not... But people will try anything for a buck...

The concept he was presenting was simply how to get your manuscript prepped and delivered to Amazon in less than ten minutes...

There is value in that information... Value that I am already looking to integrate into my own marketing endeavors...

The only thing disingenuous about his advice is publishing PLR content as a book for the Amazon marketplace...

The good advice was that he showed how to take any manuscript to Amazon really quickly... That was great advice actually... I did not know about CreateSpace before that webinar, and now I am happy that I do...

If you start with a good manuscript for a book, and follow the foundations laid down in this webinar, where is the problem?

There isn't one... It was not bad advice on the whole...

Another excellent piece of advice the presenter offered was that it is much more powerful to use a printed book as your business calling card... It serves to develop a more lasting impression on your potential clients than a mere business card could ever do...

The presenter did get me thinking... I thought back to the last time I tried to prepare a book for sale on Amazon... Painful is the description... Then I went to trusty Google and found a WSO that would give me the most important part of the webinar hosts' offer...

The best part for me was the suggestion that there are software tools that would enable me to easily format any manuscript for Amazon, quickly and easily...

The webinar guest will give us the tools we need for $97, but the following WSO gives me that same kind of software tool, for a measly $10: http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...-template.html

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maggie2

14 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

I can't believe most people commented on your post, without knowing what you were really talking about...

And I cannot believe that you are willing to toss the baby with the bath water...

I had to hold up before responding to this thread, because I started listening to that webinar last night and paused it to finish today... I wanted to finish the webinar, before I responded to you here...

There was a lot of really good info in that program...

You are right about that. There was some good information in the program. I am the first one to admit when I make a mistake and I did make a mistake. I did not give a balanced look at the program. I guess I was so amazed at the poor content that I didn't think to take a more balanced view and I acknowledge that.

There was also some bad info in that program...

Should you be publishing PLR content on Amazon? Certainly not... But people will try anything for a buck...

The concept he was presenting was simply how to get your manuscript prepped and delivered to Amazon in less than ten minutes...

There is value in that information... Value that I am already looking to integrate into my own marketing endeavors...

I'm not sure what value there is in finding out how to publish in 10 minutes when it could lead you to ruin your reputation by doing so.

I DO think there is value in some of the information in the program, some of which you highlight below. However, this is the part of the presentation that I felt and still feel will do people more harm than good.

The only thing disingenuous about his advice is publishing PLR content as a book for the Amazon marketplace...

I disagree with you here. I think that implying that a book created in 10 minutes could sell anywhere is probably more damaging than using PLR. However, these two points are the ones that I had the problem with and still do.

The good advice was that he showed how to take any manuscript to Amazon really quickly... That was great advice actually... I did not know about CreateSpace before that webinar, and now I am happy that I do...

The advice about Createspace was really good. The problem was with the speed. I have written eight books and of those two have become best sellers. And trust me, you cannot create a book in 10 minutes and have a quality product. The speed is where I see the major problem. The advice about Createspace is not the problem.

If you start with a good manuscript for a book, and follow the foundations laid down in this webinar, where is the problem?

There isn't one... It was not bad advice on the whole...

You're right...if you start with a GOOD manuscript then there isn't a problem. But when you take PLR and create a book in 10 minutes is that a GOOD manuscript? Again, this is where I get hung up.

Another excellent piece of advice the presenter offered was that it is much more powerful to use a printed book as your business calling card... It serves to develop a more lasting impression on your potential clients than a mere business card could ever do...

This was one of the pieces that I thought was excellent as well. I agree with that...I've done it myself and know it is effective.

The presenter did get me thinking... I thought back to the last time I tried to prepare a book for sale on Amazon... Painful is the description... Then I went to trusty Google and found a WSO that would give me the most important part of the webinar hosts' offer...

The best part for me was the suggestion that there are software tools that would enable me to easily format any manuscript for Amazon, quickly and easily...

The webinar guest will give us the tools we need for $97, but the following WSO gives me that same kind of software tool, for a measly $10: http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...-template.html

I agree that the template is an excellent tool. I have one of my own that I use and it works really well.

I agree with you that I did not give a balanced review and I recognize that there were many good pieces of information in the webinar. I appreciate your input and I'm glad your post got me to realize that I needed to take another look at my thinking and clean up my act.

Thanks

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tpw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by maggie2

I'm not sure what value there is in finding out how to publish in 10 minutes when it could lead you to ruin your reputation by doing so.

I DO think there is value in some of the information in the program, some of which you highlight below. However, this is the part of the presentation that I felt and still feel will do people more harm than good.

...

I disagree with you here. I think that implying that a book created in 10 minutes could sell anywhere is probably more damaging than using PLR. However, these two points are the ones that I had the problem with and still do.

...

The advice about Createspace was really good. The problem was with the speed. I have written eight books and of those two have become best sellers. And trust me, you cannot create a book in 10 minutes and have a quality product. The speed is where I see the major problem. The advice about Createspace is not the problem.

...

You're right...if you start with a GOOD manuscript then there isn't a problem. But when you take PLR and create a book in 10 minutes is that a GOOD manuscript? Again, this is where I get hung up.

I have a buddy who buys and sells real estate in a very small window of time...

He buys a house, and always sells that house again within 30 days...

In some cases, he only has physical ownership of the home for less than 30 minutes...

He always has a list of buyers ready, when he finds a home and purchases it, to be closed in the next 30 days...

With a contract to purchase the home in hand, he is free to do with the home what he desires... Sometimes he fixes to sell; sometimes he fixes to rent; and sometimes he wholesales the house for a few thousand dollars profit after doing absolutely no work on the house whatsoever...

Real Estate agents have a problem with what he is doing... They feel it is in violation of the law... Yet, the laws that they feel he has broken only apply to licensed real estate agents...

Real Estate agents have reported him to the Attorney General several times... He has been investigated by the Attorney General's office several times as a result... In every case, the AG finds that no laws have been broken, and thus he is never prosecuted...

Some government loan agencies also have regulations in place about how long you can hold a property for before selling it, but if those agencies do not participate in the transaction, their regulations do not enter the equation...

The problem that the real estate agents have with his business model is that he is holding homes in his name, sometimes for less than 30 minutes...

He puts the home under contract, then finds a buyer for it... He is often in the Title Agents office at the same time as the actual buyer of the home... He signs his paperwork and leaves with a check from the Title Agent, and then his buyer enters the Title Agents office to deliver the final payment for the home and to get the title transferred to their name... During the process, the Title Agent also gives a check to the person from whom the home was purchased...

Everyone gets paid, and everyone wins...

Real Estate agents have an issue with his business model, because he typically owns a home for less than 30 minutes...

However, if he were to purchase the home and hold it for five years, no one would think twice...

My friend has been investigated by the AG so many times that he knows the investigators by name... LOL

If what he was doing was really against the law, I imagine his prison id number would be tattooed on his arm by now...

No one who is legitimate will write a book for publication that they spend less than ten minutes to prepare...

Additionally, anyone like us who is interested in publication for our books would never consider formatting in ten minutes...

I am too much of a perfectionist to consider ten minutes a good investment for a book project that I have likely spent weeks or months developing...

I write articles... I spend an average of 3-5 hours writing, editing, and finishing an article before publication...

Other people claim to write an article in ten minutes...

While that may be awesome for them, it may not be so awesome for their readers...

Many people would take this argument now in a tangent that seeks to argue what defines "quality content"... We don't even need to have that discussion...

You and I both probably agree that someone who spends an hour compiling articles into a book format and ten minutes to format that product, will likely be doing a disservice to their readers...

But the truth is that people who are willing to do anything for money, often don't have any concern for their customers anyway... So "quality" is a word that never enters their vocabulary...

Your argument seems to revolve around quality... Without getting on a "quality of content" high horse, I tend to believe that those who care about quality would never consider spending ten minutes on a job that can be done in ten minutes...

Those who care about quality also care about doing something well and not taking shortcuts...

Sure, we can prepare a book for publication through CreateSpace in under ten minutes, but would we?

Most people who are committed to developing a real business would never consider ten minutes to prep a book through CreateSpace to be a worthy investment... They would take the time to make sure everything is done properly...

It is not the amount of time we spend doing any particular project that determines the quality of the product we produce, but rather the level of commitment to doing a job right that we bring to the task...

Is the speed to production the real issue? I think not... I think the real issue is whether people are flooding the marketplace with crap products...

If people are flooding the marketplace with crap products, not only are they doing a disservice to the public, the seller, and the overall marketplace, but they are also creating a business model that will not survive the test of time...

There are no ten-minute shortcuts to success... There are only ten-minute shortcuts to failure...

The harm is not in describing the shortcuts, but setting aside common sense to use the shortcuts...

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ironwood

14 years ago

Having served a long term as a grandparent I believe the reaction to this type of thing is akin to what grandparents feel when they watch their grandkids do something really stupid. You want to just grab them and if not at least sit down and have a long talk with them perhaps have the desire to pick them up and shake them till they understand what a mistake they are making. (Of course by the time you make grandparent status you realize these actions did not work on your kids so you might want to try with the grandkids).

While wanting sincerely to stop people from wasting their time, money and spirit on junk products and to put bad businesses out of business it can have really bad effects. You may spend enormous amounts of time trying to convince the unconvinceable of their errors. Some folks just have to learn about hot stoves the hard way.

And of course in the worse case our old friend the "government" gets involved and in the attempt to save us all from ourselves passes idiot laws that do no more than destroy business.

Good advice above in those threads. Feel compassion for those folks but do your best to move on. The world has a way of destroying those shoddy business folks although in many cases it is a slow process.

Chet Hastings

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JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by maggie2

I'm not sure what value there is in finding out how to publish in 10 minutes when it could lead you to ruin your reputation by doing so.

Maggie, most of the people who will try the quickie method are not worried about their reputations. Not that I would follow this model, but IF I did, I would churn out the crap under a wide array of pen names so that if some of them got burned, I'd still be fine.

Originally Posted by maggie2

I disagree with you here. I think that implying that a book created in 10 minutes could sell anywhere is probably more damaging than using PLR. However, these two points are the ones that I had the problem with and still do.

The first thing I thought of was that this is eerily similar to the craze over dumping crappy pdf files on eBay back before they cracked down on it.

Besides, with a proper title and decent description, even a POS PLR dump could sell a number of copies before the negative reviews kicked in.

Can't call the name to mind, but most of us have heard about the old time marketer who sold millions of books via mail order and magazine ads, just from the titles.

Last point for me...

While Danny Adams and I have locked horns before, in this case he's right. Look at the marketing lessons, not the product.

As Allen Says says in his "Marketing to the Herd Mind" (War Room, private posts), one thing to keep in mind when selling to the masses is that people are looking for the easy button, the magic beans they can wish on to make all their dreams come true. (I'm paraphrasing)

If the promoter had come out and said "the way to succeed is to find a concept, create an outline, write the draft, research and verify the facts, proof read several times, and then use my software...", how many copies do you think he would have sold?

If the buyer's sole objective is to have a book for sale, the product delivers that (assuming it actually works).

I'm not making moral or ethical judgments here - that's a whole different discussion. There's redeeming value even in bad examples.

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passionforgolf

14 years ago

Originally Posted by maggie2

Last night I sat through a 1 1/2 hour webinar where this guy was spouting off about how you could create a book in 10 minutes time and sell it through Createspace and Amazon and make tons of money.

There was some software that picked up articles on a topic and formatted them into a book form. Then the book was uploaded to Createspace and bam...you had a book ready to sell.

This is extremely destructive advice to anyone. I've seen enough PLR books that work that way and they often have repeat information in them, they have mistakes in them, poor grammar, sometimes broken links, and more.

Someone might buy your book from Amazon once it was up for sale, but if it was crappy you'd get a lousy review and you could really ruin your reputation by doing this kind of thing. I hope that others who listened to this webinar realize that and don't do this.

I know that one of the things that IM is all about is speed and auto-pilot, but this is a sure way to give yourself a bad name and once you have a bad name, you're done in.

I'm thinking about contacting the "guru" who did the webinar and suggesting that he is doing a disservice to anyone who doesn't know any better than to follow this advice.

What would you do in this kind of situation?

The one problem with IM is that there are to many people marketing it as get rich quick (GRQ). To make real money on line you need to establish yourself as a brand, this takes time. It does take time and hard work to build a solid reputation & build credibility online.

The sooner the GRQ guys bug of the better, steer well clear of the GRQ 'gurus' and make quality products that your visitors will refer on and get repeat sales.

Best wishes,
Joe.

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Gail_Curran 14 years ago

I know exactly what you are referring to. I'm not a fan of the "Make crap really fast and sell it for a stupid high price" business model.

Sure, the basic concept of creating a book or making audio recordings may be valuable, but these types of marketers never talk about quality and the importance of creating something worth reading / watching / listening to.

The focus is alway on how fast can you make a product and never how good can you make it. Quality is mentioned only in passing, if at all, and no one ever talks about how to achieve it. Because then they wouldn't be able to "write" a book in 15 minutes or create a "product" in half an hour.
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high_plains_drifter

14 years ago

this is exactly why i stay away from most ebooks claiming the heavens

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jlucado

14 years ago

I cannot believe what a of lot of Im-ers tell people.

So I don't!

Move on, find something that you do believe in.

My best,
Jerry

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Alfred Shelver

14 years ago

Please read TPW's review as well as that of the OP. I have read allot of TPW's posts lately and he seems like a genuine guy and a straight shooter.

Often people and products get bashed that do not deserve it ... Only because the user never saw past one principle, as seems to be the case here.. The user had unrealistic expectations ... or the user was not technical enough to integrate the system.

Be careful to bash a product it might say more about you than the product.

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maggie2

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Cathy Shelver

Please read TPW's review as well as that of the OP. I have read allot of TPW's posts lately and he seems like a genuine guy and a straight shooter.

Often people and products get bashed that do not deserve it ... Only because the user never saw past one principle, as seems to be the case here.. The user had unrealistic expectations ... or the user was not technical enough to integrate the system.

Be careful to bash a product it might say more about you than the product.

Hello Cathy,

As I said in my post to TPW above, I'll be the first to admit when I make a mistake. And you are right in this sense: I did not see past the things that I found harmful.

You are not right, however, about my expectations. I had no expectations going into the webinar, I was just going to listen to what I hoped would be a good idea. You are also wrong to assume that I do not have the technical skills to integrate the system. I have published on Createspace, so I do have those skills. I also have the skills to gather PLR and use it, I have done so.

As I said, I'm more than willing to accept my errors, but I won't accept statements made about me that are not accurate...like the expectations and technical skills.

I guess you have had the same problem as I did...making assumptions about another person.

Cheers,

Thanks

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Andyhenry

14 years ago

I saw this webinar too.

As someone who has used Createspace and published my own books I was interested to see what he said about the process.

It didn't even occur to me that people interested in doing this may still not even know about Createspace as it's the most popular way to self publish now.

I think in his rush to sound like the speed demon of publishing he probably (hopefully not intentionally) gave the wrong impression about the quality of what you publish. I know he used software to grab articles and throw them together into an ebook and was actually recommending you do the same - that still does depend entirely on the quality of the writing in the first place.

I would not recommend people use PLR articles to do this as all you'll really do is make people who do get your book think you're an idiot, which is sort of the opposite of the effect you want.

But I also use a template for formatting my books ready for Createspace and a fellow warrior for the graphics, so the process is the same no matter how you get your content.

Using Createspace is simple. It's not quite as quick as he was making out but then again - I'm not sure anyone watching would actually intend to try and do it so quickly anyway - it's stupid unless you're trying to show off your speed.

Once you do submit your book for physical availability they need you to buy a couple of 'proof' copies, which once you receive and 'ok' will then go live. If you make any changes you then need to have them ship you new proof copies before it goes live again.

This is a valuable step as even though I read my stuff through many times in electronic format - I always find errors in the printed version the first time around.

You don't need any special software. You don't need any special process or systems to do this - Amazon make it REALLY easy and it's step by step.

If you're happy to use their graphics you don't actually need anything at all to get this done - for free.

If you want extended distribution then you can pay something extra (I think it about about $40 for a year) to show up on lots of other book properties. You get less when you make a sale this way, but it's probably sales you wouldn't have got anyway so it's all good.

If you really want to know about this - just Google 'Amazon Createspace' and go read about it on their site. They tell you everything you need to know and you can even get started right away.

But - please don't grab a bunch of PLR and fill their marketplace with more crap. It ultimately hurts your business in the long run, and other peoples.

Andy

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Vogin 14 years ago

Just another dude without honor. Luckily, those will be out sooner or later, people are not as dumb as these marketers would like to.

As for you, just smile, perhaps write a blog post about it and move on.
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robinporter

14 years ago

Personally, I'm getting hacked off with this webinar way of selling products i.e. instead of the long sales letters, which were easy to skim through, everyone is now doing 1 -2 hour webinars, with recordings often not having forward/rewind controls, meaning you have to sit through a lot of cr*p to get to the meat of whats on offer.

Time is a premium -don't want to sit through all these webinars! Can't people just get to the point!

I'm not bothering with them now, unless I know specifics before hand or trust the source.

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dprice

14 years ago

I didn't see the webinar but reading this thread have checked out several services referenced including createspace. Thank you. Createspace looks like the solution we have been looking for to get several original works published. Thank you all.

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good2go4

14 years ago

There is another thread running on this forum at the moment about what people to listen to when on this forum, and I guess it could apply to webinars and all sorts of sales pitches as well - you take what works for you and leave the rest. I will be checking out createspace thanks to your thread Marg because I do write all of my own original products and have been looking for outlets to sell through.

Thanks for yet another great idea thanks to the WF

Lisa

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abdul786

14 years ago

Unsubscribe and Move on!

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sikaz

14 years ago

This an eye opener for the newbies.It's good things like this are being brought to the notice of those who didn't take part.

Wish everybody learns something in this.

However, l want to conclude that there is nothing comparable to hard work and perseverance.They paid very heavy dividend in the end.If you work hard on your product,it will yield good amount of money for you for a long time.

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hmigroupllc

14 years ago

I definitely use PLR, but...

Using PLR is not intended to be an instant product. So I agree with your thoughts and you should not rely on such a model.

I often use PLR simply for the organization. You are definitely correct that a lot of PLR has terrible grammer, and things that are just plain wrong.

I always, review the PLR page by page, re-write everything I have to, and put new artwork anytime the product is significant. I have literally re-written entire PLR products because I couldn't stand the way the originator wrote things.

If I don't know enough about a subject to do that, then I don't use the PLR.

Of course, you can also hire ghost writers to do the modifications for you.

But, like you, I would never just grab a PLR product a junk up Amazon. Your reputation depends on it.

Have a great day

Wayne Sharer

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