Do people need conversion experts?

If you are able to make changes like that there are a lot of people who would be interested.

Heck a good business model for you might be to search the internet looking for sales pages you think you could make better and contact the owner and work out an agreement that you only get paid 50% of everything over and above what they are doing now. That would be a win/win for both of you.

Hey Marian!

Of course this is a profitable business!! I've been doing for the past year! I'm working closely with one client and we're making huge progress over the last year. 30% boost in sales.

Wondering if it's profitable still? Just ask yourself, "If I was a business owner, would I want 10, 20 or 30% more business? Of course they would.

Hope that helps.

Chris

I guess I should start researching some stuff...and learn some more stuff that could help me.
Also, should I charge a standard fee for this or should I take a share of the profit?

Check out the copywriters forum, increasing conversions is all we do

Wow, YES! If you can increase someone's conversion rate by just 1% they could make thousands of extra dollars. If you tell me you are going to increase the conversion rate of my sales page by 1% I would be crazy not to give you $2-10k for that service.

Look, if I have a product making $5k/month at a 1% conversion rate and you double that. You have just doubled my income. An extra $60k/year!!

If you can position your offer right you could make a killing Marian! I love your idea, could work very well. You just need to find the target market and get them to give you the cash.

PM me if you offer this service. I have work for you

The thing is that I don't really have something like a plan of attack and stuff when it comes to increasing conversions...I just look at the website and then I decide what needs to be modified.

And regarding copywriting...I am not THAT good at copywriting so that I can increase conversion rates just by re-writing the sales page.
With those 2 friends of mine...I basically just reordered some of the copy, changed the headline and some titles, and played around with colors/graphics.
What I do is mostly 20-30% about copywriting and the rest just reordering and redesigning some of the website. You can't imagine how much a different color for your headline can change

Thank You for your offer but atm I don't think I know enough to really start taking on some projects...I just noticed that I am somewhat good at increasing conversion rates after my friends told me their results...so I need to study some more stuff then if you are still willing I will do it for free just so I get a "portfolio"

I work a portion of the profit. Profit above the benchmark that is.
The income is less predictable but it's consistant.. that's the key.
Work for enough clients and you'll make a nice steady income.

Here's how we worked out our deal:

He worked out the average clickbank payment for each product over an entire year. From there it was easy.

Eg. if the benchmark was $1809 and the pay period did say $2,500 you make a cut of all above $1809. ($2,500 -$1809 x % = whatever..

This all depends on the % you both agree on and for how long you're compensated..

I currently work at 25% for 7 years. Not a bad arrangement at all.

Also, remember most business owners will be VERY HESITANT to work with someone they don't know yet.. if you're looking to find new people to work with make sure you put in the contract to have a 90 day "trial period".

This gives the business owner enough time to see substantial progress and decide whether he wants to keep working with you, without risk.. well less risk. If not, you take down all your copywriting updates (which you legally own) and both go your separate ways. This arrangement has worked wonders for me.

Also, you want to make sure you have the right contract in place. Always in writing. Pen to paper. You wouldn't want to get screwed after months of hard work.

Great to meet another fellow "behind the scenes business improving guys", Marian!

Cheers,
Chris

thx for the info willo. Regarding contracts and all that stuff...my idea of improving conversions was that I should just do it for lets say 60-90 days..I then charge a standard fee...then if they are satisfied with the increase after that period, then we close the service and he will remain with the modifications that were made and I will just receive lets say 10% of the profit made each month after my modifications for the next X months/years.

I was thinking about a standard fee and a small amount of the profit. Something like $1k-3k and then 10-15% of the profit increase that they make after I modified the website. (Of course this is when I know FOR SURE that I can increase the conversion as much as they/I want)

What do you think?

Conversion is the key for success, in seo it matters a lot, but when your role (as mine Is) as a person who deals mostly with PPC, it is ultra important to have a landing page that converts or else all those nice CTRs that I am getting are worthless.

Some sites are in need of conversion experts, this type of problem will only become bigger and the opportunities will only grow, so yes it is good to know how to raise conversions on all types of sites (ecom, sales letters, etc).

Cheers,
Magic

Hey Marian,

Sorry to keep you hanging so long.. been a busy day today.. gotta run again but will jump back on in around 6 hours to give my response.

Cheers,
Chris

the first site that I made was a landing page to get opt-ins the second site was an ecommerce website selling gym products.

On the first site I just re-arranged some of the copy and added some design of my own to it, and these were quick modification...I just did them and then never thouched them again.

As for PPC, I have no clue about it...I just know the basic stuff...so the sites that I work with should have some amount of traffic so I can properly test it...at least thats what I think.

Waiting for your answer willo.

Fiiinnnalllyyy got home... sorry about the wait Marian..

Okay... most business owners will be very hesitant to spend money upfront if they can't garauntee results.

And even then NOTHING is garaunteed. Nothing!

Trust me, I've had copy critiqued by some of the world's best... the best... and they have NOT improved the copy conversion... yes! that's right..

You could go with an agreement along the lines of:

"I agree to pay Marian $1000 plus 10% for X amount of years AFTER he improves my average conversion rate of 1.0% to 1.5%... if he does not reach this goal within 90-120 days I may decide to cancel the contact."

This agreement could work but I'd much prefer to work with dollar profit increases.

Also, the thing about conversion rates is THEY ALWAYS CHANGE... unless you control most of your own traffic through highly targeted means.

So if the traffic comes from affiliates (e.g. clickbank) then the traffic and conversion is going to change on a weekly and monthly basis... so I ALWAYS prefer to go by improving paycheck average as benchmarks rather than conversion..

How do you think the business owner would feel if you improved his site from 1.0% to 2.0%, only to have it drop back to 1.0% a month later after he's paid you $1000?

Personally, I would drop the inital charge and bump up the percentage. Maybe only start at 15% until you get some results and case studies you can use to build on top of.

This way you'll get more business comfortable agreeing to try you out.

Remember the inital money can be tempting but you've got to think long term.. the big picture..

Then as you improve more sites and have more results to prove your skills upfront then you can start charging initial fees of $1000-$2000 and then maybe even a higher percentage up to 25% or even 50% of increase

I'll let that marinate for you...

Also, to answer you second post...

I only work with sites that already have a considerable amount of traffic... traffic takes enormous work to get.. improving existing traffic is MUCH easier and fun..

and I only work in dollars not optins.. however if you can improve their opt-in page, you WILL improve their overall business and therefore $. always work in beating average income benchmarks, that's the fairest way for everyone.

ok...so..since english is not my mother language..I am having some trouble understanding that benchmark stuff....so your saying that if the owner now makes xyz$/month at x% conversion rate....I should charge him a percentage of whatever goes beyond that sum after I started working on his website?

And regarding opt-ins vs sales...I think improving the conversion rates for a optin page is alot easier that improving a sales page. But I should think of a way to charge them for optin pages.

And as for copy...like I said above...I like to work with just adding some "spice" to the website and change small amounts of the copy...and like I said above...even a few colors changed on a website can increas conversions by alot just because people see it more professional and stuff like that...I have seen websites with crappy copy but had some nicely designed headers..subscription forms etc...

Of course I will never ignore the copy..I just think that I can increase conversion by doing MORE than just re-writing copy.

When I say benchmark I mean the average over 12 months. Find the average income for that website.

Sure you can still work out a pricing deal for opt-in improvements. Maybe suggest, "$250 bucks if I double your opt in rate" for example?

Yes opt-ins are easy. But remember, the more opt-ins, the more sales too.

And yes design layout and color can make quite nice differences in copy. Although never assume just because design A worked better on exampleA .com that it will work better on exampleB .com too. Every market is different and how they respond.

Chris

Also remember to test price.

That's always the first thing I test on a new site. You could go around to 50 sites and simply test their price and increase their business and make a killing. Many many businesses don't test so you'll already seem very professional with split testing.

I am almost done with the material that I choosed to learn and it helped me alot...mostly since I went to a friends house and he had Carlton's Copywriting Sweatshop...so that really helped me alot in understanding some copy related issues.

After I finish with my material I will post a topic here on wf and do 2 websites for free just to test my skills and maybe get some case studies.

Hi Marian

I am also seriously considering offering a service like that. My main concerns are...

(a) Proving when a certain goal is achieved. For instance, a site owner needs to be able to demonstrate to YOU that they are, in fact, getting an X% conversion rate in the first place.

(b) Making sure there is enough quality traffic and sales to play with. If they only get 10 sales a month, it's gonna take an age and a day to do any serious testing.

(c) Consistent traffic. If they're constantly changing traffic sources, this is going to have an effect on the conversion rate, that may be outside your influence.

I'd probably have maybe two or three packages, SMALL, MEDIUM and LARGE for different size businesses.

Also, I don't think having an upfront charge is such a bad idea. It demonstrates that the client is serious.

You could always deduct that amount from the % amount they will pay you.

of course I will only choose projects from people that actually get some serious traffic and not enough sales...if they have 10 sales a month that means that they have low conversion rates...and thats where I come in. For what I care they can have 1 sale per month...but if they have 100-200 uv per day then I am fine with it cus thats my job...to improve their sales not their traffic. And also I will have to know their traffic sources...cus if they get totally un-targeted traffic..then its a waste of my time.
I would like to make websites that get their traffic mostly from PPC...since you know that they are getting some kind of targeted traffic.