What to put money in first - SEO or advertising?

36 replies
Hey guys, quick question for you all.

Started up a business with some partners of mine and we are looking to get a massive online presence. I'm familiar with SEO, Adwords, etc and I know for SEO it takes time to get ranked highly especially for competitive keywords and niches.

My question to you is, where should we put the money first? Our on-site SEO is OK in my eyes (could be better, working on it, site is 95% complete) and we are ready to take clients VERY soon/even now. I know getting some ads in Google could help and get us some traffic quickly, but I feel in the long term getting a solid SEO strategy/campaign down (link building, etc) would help and we could go onto the Google ads stuff later on. Since our business runs multiple services, we only have a couple $100 to put in to this part.

Just wondering your opinions! Website is in my signature if you care enough to take a look!

Thanks

Tom
#advertising #money #put #seo
  • Profile picture of the author jazbo
    SEO is free.
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  • Profile picture of the author tbsweet52
    Your post was not very helpful, but thanks.

    I am obviously talking about outsourcing SEO implementation for our website..
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    • Profile picture of the author BillLudwig
      I have been running a freelance web development/design agency for 6 years and we get this question a lot. Without looking at your site to see if it is really ready there is no way to make a blanket seo vs advertising recommendation.

      For example is the site optimized to convert the traffic that paid advertising will bring or will that money simply be wasted. If not than maybe SEO(or CRO ) would be the better investment for now.

      Long reply short, it depends on your current situation, the state the site is in, and your goals.
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    • Profile picture of the author Divya.sharma
      Originally Posted by tbsweet52 View Post

      Your post was not very helpful, but thanks.

      I am obviously talking about outsourcing SEO implementation for our website..
      Before you go for paid advertising like PPC, you can try SEO since the results you will get from it will be organic. I had hired a team of SEO experts who do everything from onsite optimozation, keyword research, offsite optimization, local listings and so on... If you can do it yourself (if you have time) then it saves your money, but sefinitely not time. I am sure, if your website is well optimized with the BEST keywords, then no need to go for paid advertising. Trust me, its my personal experience
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary King
    Agreed with BillLudwig.

    Is is possible your site will rank without a major seo effort? You say it's not bad now.

    I would spend time and/or money on making sure it's optimized for conversions - not just for paid advertising as Bill suggests, but also just in general. You may "find" some budget money for paid ads, you may really rank well out of the gate, etc.

    If you do and the page doesn't convert, doesn't help ya.

    1. Conversion optimization
    2. Free marketing wherever possible (forum signatures, helpful posts, links from other sites, article marketing)
    3. Low-cost advertising - WSO/Classified Ad if it makes sense to offer your product here - if not, similar option at a related forum
    4. Making contacts in any way you can to spread the word

    All these are free or low cost (except time of course) to maximize your performance out of the gate.
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  • Profile picture of the author tht222
    Consider some the classified sites as well (might work for whatever you are selling) - if you do it right, you can get decent traffic, but don't use auto responder and rather reply to each email (no matter how tedious) and see if this works for you. This is one of the fastest and free ways to get traffic...
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Depending on the cost per click, you might want to put some of your budget into PPC ads for testing.

      You can quickly test various headlines, offers, etc as well as honing in on the keywords that lead to conversions.

      That information can guide further SEO development.

      The neat thing about paid advertising is that you can turn it on and off, change it up, and as long as you make more than you spend, almost endlessly scaleable...
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  • Profile picture of the author tbsweet52
    Thanks for the replies guys.

    Really put it in to perspective for me. I think SEO and free advertising is where we will head to first. Then if the site is converting we can move on to paid advertising (so no money is wasted of course).

    Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author Vini289
    SEO isn't free, if it doesn't consume your money, it consumes your time... Either way it's exhausting and SEO outsourcing is expensive...

    On the other hand, Advertising is also expensive, but can also get to your point quickly...
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    • Profile picture of the author HarveyDanger
      I have to agree with Vini on this one. Go with advertising first, at least that will get you traffic almost instantly. In the meantime work on SEO yourself if you have the time. Depending on the competition you might be able to dominate rankings on your own.

      Originally Posted by Vini289 View Post

      SEO isn't free, if it doesn't consume your money, it consumes your time... Either way it's exhausting and SEO outsourcing is expensive...

      On the other hand, Advertising is also expensive, but can also get to your point quickly...
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Hey Tom,

    I would suggest something a little different.

    Pay for your traffic to start with and focus on SEO later.

    Why?

    This is something I believe a LOT of people get wrong and it costs them a lot more than they realise.

    People talk about seo like a 'good free way to get started and something you want in the long run, so the quicker you focus on it - the better'.

    And there's just enough logic in there for it to catch most people out.

    Sure - seo can be free in financial terms and yes it's definitely something that most businesses will probably want to consider as part of their long term strategy.

    However - It only works effectively in that context AFTER you know which terms to target and that will convert into buyers/customers.

    So if you start your seo now - you'll waste most of your efforts trying to rank for terms that DO NOT convert into buyers.

    You'll be back here in a few months saying "I've got great rankings and decent traffic - but not making any sales/ getting conversions".

    In short - you'll be getting a lot of the wrong traffic.

    So........ (getting back to my point)

    Don't waste your time trying to rank organically for any terms until you know which ones become buyers.

    You can easily do this with some simple PPC.

    The reason I know this makes sense is because I'm always surprised by which keywords/phrases actually turn out to be the best buying phrases. It's often not the ones you would have targeted first for seo.

    Definitely consider seo as a strategy for the long run - but don't confuse getting traffic and rankings as the same thing as investing in seo because until you know which phrases you'll make money with - you're spending your time on hopes and wishes which may not turn into revenue.

    I know that's not what anyone is will tell you -but it's the best advice I can give you based on what you've said.

    Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author spennyc
    Advertising is better if you're looking for a kickstart - personally I don't like waiting around fro SEO
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Murphy
    Accepting your assertion that your site is 95% complete.

    I would first use ppc/ppv test campaigns to get immediate traffic which I can then analyse, through thorough tracking, for click through rates and conversions. I make sure I split test as many variables as possible. The stats would inform of any tweaks that might be needed so I would then optimise.

    SEO is an ongoing process. You can, of course, outsource the time consuming grunt jobs.

    Don't forget off page SEO. Develop an effective backlinking strategy to get plenty of link juice to keep your search engine rankings high. This, too, can be outsourced.

    Cheers,

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Trieu
    SEO may require alot of time and investment, but in the long run, you may save more money. For instance, if you get your site ranked No1 on Google, it may stay there for weeks or even months so you may not need to spend more to promote your site for a while.
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  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    Could you swing both? If I had to choose one, I would probably go with SEO and get a good footing. Paid advertising should always be supplemental. Just my opinion. I have had much success with SEO...not much with paid advertising.
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  • Profile picture of the author Landis
    whats with everyone saying SEO isnt free and that it COSTS time. No, it doesnt COST time, it costs NOTHING (unless you outsource). Time used is just a byproduct of DOING SOMETHING. Would you say driving to work costs time? Going to gym COST time?? How much time did eating that hamburger COST you? Saying FREE costs ANYTHING does not make any sense! Sorry, but that is just a big pet peeve of mine. Regarding your post, I would choose SEO because thats my forte, but its really up to you to decide which way is best!
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by carpetmuncher View Post

      whats with everyone saying SEO isnt free and that it COSTS time. No, it doesnt COST time, it costs NOTHING (unless you outsource). Time used is just a byproduct of DOING SOMETHING. Would you say driving to work costs time? Going to gym COST time?? How much time did eating that hamburger COST you? Saying FREE costs ANYTHING does not make any sense! Sorry, but that is just a big pet peeve of mine. Regarding your post, I would choose SEO because thats my forte, but its really up to you to decide which way is best!
      Sorry but your arguement doesn't make sense.

      I think you just haven't been in business for yourself long enough (or at all?)

      My time is what I charge for. If someone wants a website - I quote them based on the time it will take me. If someone wants me to train their staff - I quote them based on the time I'll spend with them.

      If I decide to help someone for free - that's time I'm not charging someone else for.

      If I do SEO - that's time I'm not using on something that would pay.

      TIME IS MONEY.....

      If you have a normal job and someone is paying you no matter how you spend your time then maybe you see your time as having no value - but I can tell you that when your time has a direct impact on your revenue/income - It is the most valuable thing you have.
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Tom,

        If you're in this business for the long haul, you should probably start by coming up with what you assess to be the likely average lifetime value per customer. You'll need to factor in your upfront conversion stats and any recurring or repeat purchases.

        Once you have a handle on that, you'll be able to decide how much you can afford to spend on customer acquisition and that may well determine where you focus your marketing time/spend.

        Otherwise, you're just guessing.



        Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author Landis
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        Sorry but your arguement doesn't make sense.

        I think you just haven't been in business for yourself long enough (or at all?)

        My time is what I charge for. If someone wants a website - I quote them based on the time it will take me. If someone wants me to train their staff - I quote them based on the time I'll spend with them.

        If I decide to help someone for free - that's time I'm not charging someone else for.

        If I do SEO - that's time I'm not using on something that would pay.

        TIME IS MONEY.....

        If you have a normal job and someone is paying you no matter how you spend your time then maybe you see your time as having no value - but I can tell you that when your time has a direct impact on your revenue/income - It is the most valuable thing you have.
        Excuse me? By your logic, if I value my time at $50 an hr, and it takes me half an hr to eat a meal, eating my meal just cost me $25. That makes absolutely no sense. I understand that when youre doing consulting, freelancing work for someone else, youre charging based on how long you think it will take but the difference is the people who hired you are not paying for your TIME, but for your SKILL/TALENTS. So following your logic, every second youre not working is actually COSTING you money? Doing SEO for yourself is literally free, youre not spending any form of currency to do it.

        Also, I've been in this business for 3 years now but thats quite irrelevant.
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        • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
          Originally Posted by carpetmuncher View Post

          Excuse me? By your logic, if I value my time at $50 an hr, and it takes me half an hr to eat a meal, eating my meal just cost me $25. That makes absolutely no sense.
          Are you being serious? (I'm asking this honestly)

          Do you really believe that I'm being so generalised as to mean that sleeping and eating are things you should be paid for?

          You're going way overboard trying to make your point.

          The only thing YOU have to offer that can't be got from someone else is YOUR time.

          Only you know how valuable your life is and how valuable your time is.

          However - we're talking about work and making money here.

          The OP has a business and is looking for the best way to spend his time and money on that his business.

          The reason people say Time is Money is because to them it's the only thing they can't get back after it's spent. You can't replace it. Whatever you do with your time when you're focused on your business is time you can choose what to do with - if you waste your time then it's gone. If you use it productively on your business then it's still gone but it created some other value for your business.

          By your logic your time is worthless and I can sit around all day eating burgers because that doesn't 'cost anything'.

          However if I did that - I would have lost the opportunity to charge a client $3000 for some work.

          Maybe you don't see that lost $3k as a cost but if that's how I pay my bills then not using my time to earn money will end up with me living on the street.

          Because I work from home for myself - the biggest decision I ever have to make is - how to spend my time today.

          Why? Because whether I make money or not depends on the answer.

          The reason I don't come here and run WSOs every day offering article writing services for $1 an article is because - it would take too much of my time for the return it would get. It would be a 'waste of time'.

          Today is a classic example.

          I have 4 clients that all have work they want me to do - It's the weekend but I could sit at home and do some of that work and on Monday put some invoices in for about $1500. Am I going to? No. Why - because I have other things I want to do with my time.

          Since most people work during the week, a lot of my friends and family are more available at the weekend - so I'll spend my time with them.

          Perhaps I'll get bored at some point over the weekend and just do some work because I like it and want to help my clients, but maybe not.

          The point is - the difference between whether I make a few grand this weekend or not is how much I value my time.

          If I wasn't sure whether I could pay my bills next month then I'd probably choose to work all weekend because that time would make me money.

          Obviously - I'm not intending to charge my clients for the time I spend eating or sleeping and I don't consider that lost earnings time - that would be STUPID.

          If you really don't see why people value their time and consider time spent doing something that could easily be outsourced as affecting their revenue in some way - I don't think we'll find a middle ground on this.

          Anyway- this wasn't even my point.

          My point was if you are going to invest your 'valuable' time into an activity at least make sure you know the value of that activity.

          I've seen a LOT of IMers treating their time as worthless and spending a lot of it doing things that never create any value or any income for them - and THAT is why I say get to know your business and which traffic converts before spending too much time finding out you spent a lot of time getting the wrong traffic.

          I don't imagine that's a difficult concept to deal with but some people will still just think of seo as 'free' because there's no financial cost and then wonder later why their traffic doesn't convert - some people just need to learn these lessons for themselves and people like me trying to save them to pain we've had learning it for ourselves are wasting our time.

          The end.... I'm not going to try to rationalise this anymore - I thought that the concept of your limited time being valuable was something most people understood and if you're not one of them then I really have no interest in trying to convert you.
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          • Profile picture of the author Landis
            Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

            Are you being serious? (I'm asking this honestly)
            ..
            OP asked if hes better off doing SEO (because its free) or using paid traffic (ppc, etc). Some people suggested SEO (because its free), at which point you tried to explain that SEO costs TIME, but the thing is ... WHAT DOESNT? Losing TIME (seo) is alot cheaper than losing MONEY AND TIME (paid traffic). I guess we just have a different perspective on the word "free" and judging by your perspective, youd categorize seo traffic as a paid source..hahaha.

            PS, I agree with you that wasting your time is unprofitable, but my point all along was I believe SEO is FREE (monetary value).
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            • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
              Originally Posted by carpetmuncher View Post

              youd categorize seo traffic as a paid source..hahaha.

              PS, I agree with you that wasting your time is unprofitable, but my point all along was I believe SEO is FREE (monetary value).
              Now I know you're joking.... Thanks for the laugh. I just didn't see that you were changing my meaning and then arguing with your new version. Yeah - If I had said that doing a free activity takes money from my bank I'd have been laughing at my comment too. And if I thought that you were just being pedantic and trying to make out that free only ever had any relation to anything in the context of money - then even suggesting otherwise would have been stupid too.

              I can see now that you do actually believe that time is valuable but were just pushing back at the word free and it's use - naturally if you think of free as only related to money and people say free isn't free - they don't make sense.

              But I guess at least now that I raised it up for debate, you can see that this is not what people mean when they say that and they're actually referring to 'value' rather than 'money'.

              We all have our unique experiences and learnings that drive our interpretations of words and phrases as well as the dictionary definitions - so it's probably no surprise that we label things differently sometimes.

              Thanks for the laugh. I often forget how funny my comments can be to people with a different perspective or using different labels.
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              • Profile picture of the author Landis
                Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

                Now I know you're joking.... Thanks for the laugh. I just didn't see that you were changing my meaning and then arguing with your new version. Yeah - If I had said that doing a free activity takes money from my bank I'd have been laughing at my comment too. And if I thought that you were just being pedantic and trying to make out that free only ever had any relation to anything in the context of money - then even suggesting otherwise would have been stupid too.

                I can see now that you do actually believe that time is valuable but were just pushing back at the word free and it's use - naturally if you think of free as only related to money and people say free isn't free - they don't make sense.

                But I guess at least now that I raised it up for debate, you can see that this is not what people mean when they say that and they're actually referring to 'value' rather than 'money'.

                We all have our unique experiences and learnings that drive our interpretations of words and phrases as well as the dictionary definitions - so it's probably no surprise that we label things differently sometimes.

                Thanks for the laugh. I often forget how funny my comments can be to people with a different perspective or using different labels.
                hahaha, now youre assuming that I was joking? You know what they say about people that a*s-u-me right? My argument has always been the same; SEO is free if you do it yourself. It costs no money, arguing that point is moot, and just makes you look silly.
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                • Profile picture of the author genietoast
                  What about having a press release done? Since your business is relatively new, an online press release can get you lots of backlinks within a few days to weeks, plus you're advertising your service at the same time.

                  I used one lady's site long time ago: onlineprnews.com. Her links are permanent. For $49, you can get a fairly decent distribution. Just talk to her and see what she suggests.
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  • Profile picture of the author franamico
    Hard to add more to all this incredible advice...
    I would personally invest in SEO. Outsourcing? yes and not...
    Do that if you want fast results but learning SEO is very important
    You are in a competitive niche? learn how to find highly profitable keywords...
    Market Samurai might be a software package to invest on...

    Finally and obviously learn how to effectively use your facebook account! it's free...

    Good luck!!
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    • Profile picture of the author FacebookPro78
      Personally I do paid advertising first. I do this because I can then see how my website converts and how much money it can potentially make. I also test it on certain keywords so I know which keywords convert best and then I can accurately choose which keywords to rank for to help ensure the long term success of a website.

      Hope this helps!
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  • Profile picture of the author arschloch
    Yeah dude, if you don't want to pay a lot of $$$ up front, best to just do some free promotion until you have an idea of your conversion rates. Then you can pay money for traffic or outsource SEO with confidence.

    But sometimes the best way to determine if your SEO traffic will convert is to use adwords to buy traffic for the keywords you wish to target. By getting conversion rate data from a test adwords campaign you can determine which keywords are worth attempting to rank for.
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  • Profile picture of the author arschloch
    Also...you have no way to track conversions. The PDFs you require people to download and fill out won't even properly display on my browser (gives errors about the fonts).

    It's definitely NOT worth spending money on it until you have it fixed.
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  • Profile picture of the author magicmarcus
    honestly.

    i would spend time or money in the area of site design / conversion.

    all the traffic in the world will not matter if your site does not convert.

    think about your market... what they want, what they need, what they feel.

    make that the message of your site instead of just offering packages.

    think about thier number one fear... BAD TENNATS and show them how your offer will help them above the competitions. show them what you are giving them for thier $$$

    once you get this down... then go for traffic

    hope this is helpful.
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  • Profile picture of the author kposs
    Originally Posted by tbsweet52 View Post

    Since our business runs multiple services, we only have a couple $100 to put in to this part.
    This is really the crux of the problem. Normally I'd say paid advertising, but $200 is not going to get you very far at all. Even with Adwords, that'll be depleted before you even get a chance to finish testing your keywords and ads.

    With SEO, depending on your keywords, the competition and your strategy, it is possible to start ranking very quickly. Although you'd either need a reliable strategy or someone who knows what they're doing to help you select appropriate keywords, build backlinks, etc. and again $200 is not going to get you very far.

    I think you may want to 'think outside the box' to get started. Maybe partner with those in your industry. For example, see if you can provide content for the newsletter of a related association or publication. Something along those lines would be both inexpensive (maybe even free) and should give you good returns in a short period of time.
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  • Profile picture of the author BonganiS
    If you want quick results, you can advertise. The good thing is that you can pay for adverts whilst working on SEO. SEO does not always require cash since you can just spend your time doing it unless you want to pay somebody else to do it for you.

    So you can take your time increasing your ranking and reap quick results using adverts for your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author prodigaljoe
    It depends on your market. Is the competition low in google for organic? What about the competition in adwords? If ppc bids are low then it does not take time to get some cheap campaigns up and test conversions. Work on the site to make sure it converts to sales. You can get some free traffic while doing all of this because it will help boost backlinks anyways for seo. If this is already a profitable business and you know your margins then you should figure out conversions of your site and how much you can spend on advertising. If you have nice profit margins then I would push paid traffic hard if you know what you are doing and work seo in my extra time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin AKA Hubcap
      Originally Posted by kposs View Post

      I think you may want to 'think outside the box' to get started. Maybe partner with those in your industry. For example, see if you can provide content for the newsletter of a related association or publication. Something along those lines would be both inexpensive (maybe even free) and should give you good returns in a short period of time.
      I like the way kposs (where's the naked mole rat) thinks. In addition to what she said above let me add this. Find providers who offer complimentary services and offer them a piece of the pie (affiliate program) to promote your company.

      They already have a relationship with your prospective customer( apartment managers I'm assuming). Leverage it.

      What service are your prospective customers using now and more importantly why are they using it? Call them and find out then craft your offer so it has exactly what they want.

      Regarding PPC and SEO. They are not mutually exclusive though I tend to agree with Andy. Find the converting KWs and center your SEO efforts around them.

      Kevin
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Generally, I advise to use PPC to determine where to spend your SEO resources...

        Some keywords will drive traffic without sales, and others will drive less traffic with more sales...

        You should understand which is which before spending a lot of time or resources on SEO... You don't want to spend either chasing the wrong keywords...

        However, if I read correctly, you only have about $200 for advertising... As a result, I believe you should sit on the money you have, since you don't have enough to do proper PPC testing... This forces you into guessing your SEO targets, and more often you will be right rather than wrong...

        $200 is a really small advertising budget, and I think it is best to sit on that money in the event that an emergency situation occurs... Having $200 to fall back on for whatever reason again is not much, but it is better to have $200 for that purpose, rather than nothing...
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  • Profile picture of the author dwells
    I'll say put your money into advertising first. Then learn SEO.
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