PPC marketing is no longer an option for our business. Help Needed!

by pojax
24 replies
So I run an online poker training site.

The website is Outstanding Poker Training School - Online Poker Training Videos

We have been successfully operating on PPC marketing via Facebook, and Yahoo.

Yahoo has told us that they have merged with MSN and will now be following MSN's advertising policy and guidelines. They have turned us down many times because we are a poker "education" site.

In October we will lose our Yahoo traffic because Yahoo will now be under MSN's guidelines.

We have tried other search engines that do PPC with the same result. We were running on facebook for 5 + months and they recently took the ads down. We were simply driving traffic to our facebook fan page.

We have tried CPV advertising however that seems to give us an over 98% bounce rate.

Can you guys suggest any creative advertising methods that can help get us traffic?

Our website converts and we have a 1% refund rate. Our trouble is just driving traffic.
Facebook and Yahoo campaigns were very profitable even though they were expensive. However they are no longer valid options for us.

Any help would do.

Thanks,

Errol
#business #longer #marketing #needed #option #ppc
  • Profile picture of the author pojax
    Any suggestions?
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    • Profile picture of the author dmadnani
      Originally Posted by pojax View Post

      Any suggestions?
      How about buying relevant advertising space (eg. banner ads) on websites in the poker niche?
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      • Profile picture of the author j0s3
        Originally Posted by dmadnani View Post

        How about buying relevant advertising space (eg. banner ads) on websites in the poker niche?
        Sorry dmadnani - we posted at the same time and you beat me by a moment

        Scott: great answers
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        • Profile picture of the author pojax
          Problem with Marketing on forums or high targeted poker sites is that these guys want like 10k + a month in advertising. Sites such as cardplayer, and poker news. We simply can't afford that type of advertising. Everything is so expensive. We have done article marketing and SEO. We are on the 2nd page for "poker training" keyword. Gets us some traffic.

          We are looking for creative advertising methods that can help get us traffic?

          Not the general, article marketing, banners on poker sites. We have tried that!
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          • Profile picture of the author luis23
            Originally Posted by pojax View Post

            Problem with Marketing on forums or high targeted poker sites is that these guys want like 10k + a month in advertising. Sites such as cardplayer, and poker news. We simply can't afford that type of advertising. Everything is so expensive. We have done article marketing and SEO. We are on the 2nd page for "poker training" keyword. Gets us some traffic.

            We are looking for creative advertising methods that can help get us traffic?

            Not the general, article marketing, banners on poker sites. We have tried that!
            Regarding the SEO, second page is not enough to be honest. The same thing you were doing with PPC targeting keywords should be done with SEO. It is harder of course, but SEO is for the LONG RUN and I will always SEO several page of my websites plus some PPC so I can have double traffic.

            If you said SEO is not good for you business is because I think honestly you have NOT done all the right things to be found naturally in all search engines and especially for all the high traffic keywords that are good for your business.

            You also have Video Marketing, Social Marketing...
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            • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
              I would also cast my vote for SEO. It's not sexy, but with the right keywords it really does work.

              But as far as paid advertising, have you considered Stumble Upon? I purchased a great WSO on this a while, and it has been very successful for me.

              Best of luck though,
              Derek
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    • Profile picture of the author j0s3
      It sounds like you're running out of options with pay per click.

      Banner advertising in relevant sites is your alternative. High traffic sites and forums about poker
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Voss
    This might be a time to work on fine tuning your affiliate program.

    Creating a new campaign that works on converting all of your current clients into affiliates might be a way to leverage an asset you already have while you are losing your PPC avenues.

    Also, have you considered going offline? Since you will have the ppc budget freed up, you might want to sponsor tournaments or go for magazine advertising.

    Then, of course, you could purchase lists of people who have purchased poker or gambling products in the recent past and do mailings.

    I know, offline marketing can seem like a gamble though. (get it, gamble. nevermind, not funny)

    -Scott
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    • Profile picture of the author patadeperro
      Originally Posted by Scott Voss View Post

      Also, have you considered going offline? Since you will have the ppc budget freed up, you might want to sponsor tournaments or go for magazine advertising.

      Then, of course, you could purchase lists of people who have purchased poker or gambling products in the recent past and do mailings.
      I Would support 100% this option, many people have forgotten that at the end the "traffic" are people looking for their product, what better place to look for them than where they hang around? what about buying offline ads, stickers, buying some subscriber magazine lists? go back to basics, direct marketing is the name of the game.

      Best of lucks
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt.Lake
    SEO
    Article marketing
    Banner advertising
    Rented email lists...

    I'd say banner advertising on relevant sites and SEO would be your best options. I'm sure there are more though.
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek S
    You had to of known this type of thing was bound to happen with PPC.

    Have you worked on SEO at all over the years? The poker niche is very profitable but in return extremely saturated. If your starting fresh with SEO it will take you at least a year to rank for the competitive keywords and that is if you work very hard and smart at it.

    Find sites within your niche and market there. If you can get media buys an niche sites converting profitable expand it into non related sites but super targeted to your demographic.

    Also look into media buying with popular newsletters. I know there are loads out there in the gambling market.
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  • Profile picture of the author dougsanders
    I think you should check out Project Wonderful and find a niche related website on there to advertise with. They charge via pay per day rates and I've had a lot of success with them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    Here's one idea... do a JV with retailers who sell poker related items. Cards, decks, mats, etc.

    Secondly, I'd find out why PPC platforms are turning you down. Then simply adapt for them (as a side business) and then use whatever it takes to funnel the traffic through to your backend poker products.

    In other words, if Yahoo doesn't like "education" sites, then simply build a new site that sells poker chips (or something.) It's just an example, but it's another option to reach your target audience "under the radar."

    Also, don't neglect social media. It could easily dwarf your PPC efforts over time.
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  • Profile picture of the author pojax
    we have twitter, facebook, myspace accounts.. and get traffic from there.. but we need constant targeted traffic.

    Outstanding Poker Social Network and Communities | Outstanding Poker Training School - Online Poker Training Videos

    I think we are doing a lot of things right just hate losing all the PPC advertising. that was direct targeted visits that converted into signups.
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  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    I don't gamble, but I will say this to a fellow webmaster, marketing is tough and getting tougher. Re-start with heavy SEO now and continue with it from now on. This is a must. It should be your bread and butter...everything else...supplemental.

    If your PPC days are over (or at least temporarily, because other PPC networks will rise) start a blog on your site and start writing articles. Cover events, news. Give hints and tips and don't stop.
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      you may want to invest some time over on www.backlinksforums.com

      Peeps there would have you on page one right quick - for that term.

      the competition for that kw phrase you mentioned is not a very challenging one for spot #1 and 2 ...

      I suspect that term does not get the amount of traffic you desire.

      You might want to get a few more easy ones like this to rank well for.

      Who did the keyword research? whats the global search volume and are you targeting any other terms?
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  • Profile picture of the author pojax
    By SEO what do you mean? I have SEO'd every single page.. KEywords, alt tags, header tags etc. Submitted to all search engines and directories, to social bookmarketing sites etc...

    Do you mean article marketing, building backlinks?
    stuff like this?
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      Originally Posted by pojax View Post

      By SEO what do you mean? I have SEO'd every single page.. KEywords, alt tags, header tags etc. Submitted to all search engines and directories, to social bookmarketing sites etc...

      Do you mean article marketing, building backlinks?
      stuff like this?
      Yeah ... backlinks ... competitive terms usually require lots of them :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
      Originally Posted by pojax View Post

      By SEO what do you mean? I have SEO'd every single page.. KEywords, alt tags, header tags etc. Submitted to all search engines and directories, to social bookmarketing sites etc...

      Do you mean article marketing, building backlinks?
      stuff like this?
      Yes, backlinks...to your blog and to your site. Not crap backlinks. Contextual backlinks from other blogs if you can as a guest.

      Additionally, have you tried buying banner ads from relevant sites directly?
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  • Profile picture of the author pojax
    According to google keyword search
    Poker Training - Global Monthly Searches 22,200
    Free Poker Training - Global Monthly - 2,900

    I figure we cant get on top page for terms like poker strategy
    246,000 global monthly searches.. Cause there are so many poker sites out there that use this keyword.
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      Originally Posted by pojax View Post

      According to google keyword search
      Poker Training - Global Monthly Searches 22,200
      Free Poker Training - Global Monthly - 2,900

      I figure we cant get on top page for terms like poker strategy
      246,000 global monthly searches.. Cause there are so many poker sites out there that use this keyword.
      Thats with the new GKWT? is that on exact match?

      Positions 1-5 on "poker strategy" would taker some serious work .... its possible but not likely. Would take a lot more investigation to know for sure.

      after positions 5 - there seems to be some vulnerabilities - if you just wanted something on Page 1
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    There is one solid recommendation in this thread that is getting no treatment whatsoever.

    Regardless of whether PPC is out of the question or not, you need to create and leverage an army.

    Who is this army?

    One word: Affiliates

    Just 10 super powerful affiliates can launch you into a new tax bracket - without slaving over SEO, PPC, etc.

    How do you recruit said affiliates?

    Well you have the first part down - you've proven the product converts. Get an affiliate recruitment program going.

    Sounds like you are selling infoproducts, so offer as much commission as you can - 75% or more if possible.

    Then provide quality affiliate support. Use your PPC budget and hire an affiliate manager and start recruiting.

    You can start from your customers. Get them to refer friends with a website link.

    Then move out - start with this forum and other IM forums. Put your affiliate program in your signature link.

    Start contacting competitors in your niche...there is no reason why you all can't get together and co-op on traffic. It's what the big boys do.

    Contact big forums, high ranking websites, and offer them high commission on sales.

    Also, sounds like you need to expand your funnel.

    Start offering upsells/downsells and bigger, more expensive products. If you just have one or two products you sell, you constantly need to feed more people into your site. If you have 10 products, from small and cheap to huge and expensive, then you don't need near the traffic compared to before.

    Change this NOW. Start selling more advanced stuff, physically shipped DVD's - etc. Increase your revenue on the backend, then start running other paid campaigns.

    THE ABOVE is the best way to build a business, period. You can slave away trying to do SEO and take forever to do, or you can leverage the army that is out there (affiliates) as well as leverage the power of more products and really kill it, a lot easier than with SEO.

    Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author MaxHunt
    Media buys and PPV traffic sources sound like your best bet.
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    Have you tried to use ADBRITE? They are more open minded and we can get real cheap clicks from main sequence star sites with big names. Paying a lot less than Yahoo for viewers. The only problem is that we get lower percent conversion.

    Most big sites on Adbrite are no longer using Adsense due to content deemed improper. Yeah, as in casino. They are also good for people because you can get clicks for pennies. My guess is that advertising on a gaming site would be ideal for you.
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