Kajabi breaking all the "rules" on video length.

50 replies
The first video was almost 25 minutes, which I thought was kind of long.

The second video was nearly an HOUR! What is going on here?

If anybody can pull of keeping viewers locked to the screen for that long, it is cuzzin Andy, but is it advisable for the rest of us mortals? Even though these videos are long, Andy gets people to watch them MULTIPLE times.

INCREDIBLE.

I mean I have watched other "pros" instructional videos and couldn't stand listening to them for more than a few minutes. So how do we know what is best? I recently did a sales video that lasted for 9 minutes, and I was concerned about that time.

Let's assume we cannot match the BOSS style productions, either through skill or investment - How long do you think a promotional video should be before either breaking it up, or simply cutting it mercilessly?
#breaking #kajabi #length #rules #video
  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    Different people will prefer different mediums of marketing. Some may love the uber-long videos. Myself, I saw the length of videos and simply passed on the site. Of course, that may itself be an effective means of narrowing the audience down to the most likely customers.
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  • Of course you can make 25 minute videos.

    Movies are usually at least 2-3 hours, and people pay to watch those.

    This video was actually pretty well done, as opposed to the junk you normally see where someone either rambles for 15 minutes in a single shot camera image, or strings a bunch of slideshot images together to promote an affiliate program, and expects people won't notice that pattern.

    This video was well put together. While I didn't watch the whole thing, I watch more than I normally do (probably at least 3-4 minutes of it).

    It was well done & nicely designed.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author mcmahanusa
      Personally, I will never watch a marketing video that is an hour long. Nor will I use that technique myself. I don't need to be hammered for an hour to make a buying decision, and if the video is, as someone stated, uber long, the marketer has lost me and any chances he/she has of getting my money.

      But that's me. If you're the marketer, and it gets you all the sales you want, good for you. Different strokes and all that.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
        Originally Posted by mcmahanusa View Post

        Personally, I will never watch a marketing video that is an hour long. Nor will I use that technique myself.
        I agree. If someone presented me with a video and said "here's a 60 minute video you need to watch" I would respectfully decline. However, if someone said "Here's a group of 8 videos, each of them are less than 10 minutes" I would certainly give the first few videos a chance.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Well, to a large degree if the content keeps you glued to the video then 'time' becomes a secondary consideration. What is cool about Andy's style is that he is aware of production values as a means to keep people's attention spans in check. A $150,000 film education can do that for you, apparently.

        I think learning the skills that give you the ability to hold the visitors attention is just as valuable to video as good copywriting skills are to those who write long sales letters, and that education should be sought after and valued at the same level.

        I watched the video not only to find out what the product was but also to study Andy's style. To me that was a good use of time as I want to get deeper into video over the next few years.

        Paying attention the visual triggers he uses, and by that I mean the images/breaks/redirects/etc that are used to keep the viewer from getting distracted/bored make that video worth the watch for anyone wanting to see how far you can push the envelope relating to the length of a video.

        What is becoming more obvious is that marketers in general seem to fighting video as medium to help get their messages out, and personally I think that is a mistake.

        The internet is becoming more visual/auditory as time goes by, and what was once the realm where all things static ruled, that era is slowly coming to an end. What will be interesting is when the tipping point is reached where you will need to up your game by using multi-media as a sales tool to stay relevent in your market. Those people who were the early adopters and saw the potential may be the same ones who are able to capitalize on it whereas the folks who are currently fighting this coming trend may wish they had been a little bit more far-sighted. Only time will tell.

        ~Bill
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        • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
          Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

          Well, to a large degree if the content keeps you glued to the video then 'time' becomes a secondary consideration.
          ~Bill
          Bill,

          I think this is the key point. There is no 'rule' about video length. Running time should be dictated by how much of value you have to show and, as you said, production values help keep viewers watching.

          I don't think marketers are necessarily resisting the use of video, I think it might be that it's bloody hard work to consistently produce good videos. A damn site harder than producing ebooks.


          Martin
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
          Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

          Well, to a large degree if the content keeps you glued to the video then 'time' becomes a secondary consideration.
          Bill:

          I agreed to a certain extent, but here's where the problem comes for someone like me... the video will never get a chance to "glue" me because the moment I saw the "59:21" time at the bottom of the video player I will click away.

          Time, for me, is a primary consideration.

          But I'm not everyone...
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
    I always thought that you lose people on a sales video after 9 minutes even if the content is good. But I can't really say for sure without testing it.

    If you want to test it and know for sure, a fellow Warrior recently created a tool that tells you exactly when people click away and stop watching your video. I think his WSO is still active:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...analytics.html
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

      I always thought that you lose people on a sales video after 9 minutes even if the content is good. But I can't really say for sure without testing it.

      If you want to test it and know for sure, a fellow Warrior recently created a tool that tells you exactly when people click away and stop watching your video. I think his WSO is still active:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...analytics.html

      You have to understand the physcology here, this is a $100 a month service. those that watch the video all the way through and buy will stick

      those that drop out or dont have the attention span to watch it might buy if they did a quick video, but they will statistically be the ones that cancel after 3 months.

      With a limit of 500 people allowed to buy in they dont want the non stickies to take up the valuable oxygen
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt.Lake
    At least people won't be complaining that you can't fast forward the videos or see in advance how long they are. That's a good thing... at least the lack of complaining on this forum about it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    Just like a sales letter, if its not boring, length is irrelevant, within reason. But 1 hour is pushing it. As always, tension and Zeigarnik are your friends.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan Dunn
    Seems like a nice platform, except there isn't a self-hosted version from what I can see, which makes it pretty much worthless.
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  • Profile picture of the author hardline
    Honestly, what works better in conjunction with a video sales letter is upon exit, an exit pop pulls up to where they can download the PDF salesletter.
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  • Profile picture of the author snapcontent
    Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

    How long do you think a promotional video should be before either breaking it up, or simply cutting it mercilessly?
    long enough to get the message across, but short enough to keep the audience interested. An hour long video is either a REALLY dense topic, or a REALLY bad script.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin_Hutto
    The other thing that Andy has is expert copywriters writing his scripts... And tweaking the script himself as well, so he isnt "winging it"... Also, another tip, he reads and records the script FIRST. Then he matches the slides/visuals to the pre recorded audio. Makes it much smoother than trying to speak and run through the slides together.
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  • Profile picture of the author LudVanDaal
    1 hour sales video is way too much I think.
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    • Profile picture of the author PatriciaJ
      The silly start put me off and I got bored within minutes and restless to get on with my work, so I stopped watching. From the bit of information that I took in it might be the sort of product that I would buy but I would never watch a sales video lasting more than a few minutes and it would have to give me information quick rather than going on about the product name.

      That's my viewpoint, but I don't watch TV much so a video has to grab my attention quickly to have any chance of me watching throughout.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremiah Walsh
    I saw the video. It was nicely done. However, it was far too long for my taste. It is a great way to kill bandwidth...
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
    Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

    Let's assume we cannot match the BOSS style productions, either through skill or investment - How long do you think a promotional video should be before either breaking it up, or simply cutting it mercilessly?
    The video should be long enough that it increases your conversion rate over the alternative... whether that is long copy or another video.

    If you can tell a story and keep people engaged and close the deal... then it really does not matter if the video is 3 minutes or 3 hours. What matters is the conversion rate...

    Andy Jenkins is a great producer and comes from that world... if the rumor is correct there is a Grammy associated with some of his work.

    There are formulas but what is different is that Any is primarily marketing to people who know him and follow him or who have received an email endorsement... so they are preconditioned to listen more intently to what he has to say...

    I do however always turn back to this episode of the Pitchmen where Billy bangs heads with a client who wants to do a half hour infomercial with celebrity endorsements etc and tells him that what works is the 2 minute pitch:







    That's the TV world of course but its a good reminder that there are formulas that work and there are formula type producers that can assist you in putting together a winning campaign.
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  • Profile picture of the author VegasGreg
    I nearly clicked away when I saw the video was nearly 1 hour long, but I wanted to learn more about what the product was all about so I started watching.

    I ended up watching the entire thing (with a few pauses for incoming phone calls). That is how long videos should be made.

    10 minute videos of mono-tone voices babbling about nothing and not getting to the point really raise my blood pressure, but this video was well done.

    Even if you have no intention of buying the product/service it is worth watching just to see how it is done. It's a great learning resource if you watch between the lines.
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    • Profile picture of the author lotus2012
      I was turned off when i saw the video almost 1 hour long. definitely a put off
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      • Profile picture of the author Dave Weaver
        IN the case of the Kajabi video I found myself watching most of it just to find out a little more about what the system was that had my inbox full of offers.

        Some other recent videos offer no controls such as pause or indication of video length, I usually don't bother watching them.
        This is after noticing some recent sales promotion videos which I guess expected I would be more inclined to view in their entirety if I didn't know how long they were. That's a mistake.

        Dave Weaver
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        • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
          I'm not put off by long videos and did watch it all - in several sittings - because I wanted to review it for my readers. Frankly, the silly voices, odd giggles and highly affected presentation style turned me off.

          If I hadn't had a professional interest I'd have baled after a few minutes but I stuck it out to get to the punchline. It was a waste of an hour of my life.

          (But then so is X-Factor and I watch that too.)

          But I was never going to be in the target market to buy the thing anyway, so no loss there for Andy.

          Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author Trivum
    As other have said, the production was top-notch, so that helps a lot.

    But another important factor was there seemed to be little fluff (sure, there was some).

    It was "detailed," not just long. If you want to launch a product, and you think this service might be your answer, then you're going to want to know every little thing about it before you jump in.

    I've started to watch some hacks videos where they start off with literally 10 minutes of saying, "This product isn't about SEO. It isn't about Craigslist. It isn't about blah-blah-blah." ... And they will go on for literally 10 minutes saying absolutely nothing. (These are also the ones that don't have the controls available.)

    Information YOU need + what YOU can do with that information + production values that keep YOU entertained = a watchable 60 minute video, IMO.
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    • Profile picture of the author JDArchitecture
      I had no problem with the length of the 2nd video, I believe the content warrants it and I wanted to learn about the product. I would say that I watched the whole thing, but it broke half way through! (Reloading now)

      The key, and this may have been intentional, is that a long video is a good way to pre-qualify prospects.

      If someone is willing to spend that much time with you, they are much more likely to buy.
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  • Profile picture of the author webmaestro
    It really doesn't matter how long the video is, but it DOES matter that your viewer is given the option of understanding how much of their (often limited or capped) bandwidth the video is going to consume and how much of their precious time they need to dedicate (right now, on-line).

    A general rule I'd like to see marketers use is:

    Video >5 minutes? Then DEFINITELY provide a download link.

    I rarely watch videos on-line now but that's because I have invested the time to install relevant tools to let me download the videos no matter what. I then view them when I want, with MY preferred player, and with full forward/backward, fast search and high play speed. I also then have them for reference where appropriate.

    Why?

    1. It's polite - the alternative is frankly rude, presumptious and arrogant
    2. It caters more sympathetically for people (still lots of them) on dial-up
    3. video can be watched offline during dead time whilst travelling on trains/planes
    4. you don't have the right to demand people's attention for longer so why force them to "waste" their time - let them chose when & how to watch
    5. Video can be watched at faster speed e.g. using VLC for example
    6. Video can be rewound any amount to recap on something that wasn't clear the first time around (I really don't understand why marketers don't "get" this)
    7. I'm sure there are more but you get the point.

    I love Andy's stuff and he is a consummate professional at presenting ... BUT that shouldn't give him or anyone else the idea that stuffing someone straight into a video of an hour or more (as a sales pitch) is either sensible or good marketing. Sure you'll get people who are enthralled enough to watch it through on-line but a lot of people whom you might otherwise impress mightily will probably just leave and not return - not a good return (sic & no pun intended) on the hours of time investment to make a 1 hour long professional video.

    Best regards.
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  • Profile picture of the author DrewClement
    You guys do realize the test the absolute $hit out of this stuff before ever releasing dont you?

    I was one of the first to bash long sales videos, and complain when I couldnt pause, stop, exit a video etc.

    But this style has been/is/and will continue to increase conversions. And that is all that really matters in the end, isnt it?

    I didnt buy it, I closed the video....but clearly Andy doesnt care about little ol me becuase his products are selling like wildfire....

    Probably because he isnt panting and breathing as heavy as other "recordings" that have surfaced lately.........
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  • Profile picture of the author Online Bliss
    Many people are missing an Important Point. The fact that you can actually Download the Video for later viewing is not something you run into everyday. If more Marketers offered this option less would probably complain about the length.
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  • Profile picture of the author vok
    Very good video and I'd like to know who they hired to do the voice over, I do think almost 60 minutes is alittle long if you're product or service takes an hour to explain it's to complicated and you should go back to the drawing board. The best products and services in the world can be explained on a beer mat!
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    • Profile picture of the author JDArchitecture
      Originally Posted by chriswick View Post

      I do think almost 60 minutes is alittle long if you're product or service takes an hour to explain it's to complicated and you should go back to the drawing board. The best products and services in the world can be explained on a beer mat!
      This isn't a $37 ebook. The product is not only complex, but it represents a significant ongoing investment.
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  • Profile picture of the author julesw
    @chriswick
    the voice over is andy jenkins the kajabi creator himself so free!

    I work in TV as a Director (MTV etc) am going to make some videos similar to this one as a test, reckon there will be more demand for these, it's all about style, pacing and delivery, not easy to replicate but possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author TelZilla
    sorry.

    I won't be watching it.

    59 minutes is entirely too long for a sales video of any sort for me. Time is very important to me. I have better, more productive, and more profitable things to do with my time.

    For those of you who spent an hour of your time watching it, are you going to purchase? Did the 59 minute video increase your chances of buying?

    Would a series of videos have had the same or better conversion ratio?

    We know who his market is. Us. The IM'er who creates their own products and wants/desires to do launches. And there's nothing wrong with that.

    I just don't see where an hour long video is productive, for either party (user and seller).

    Yes, this has been done before with infomercials. But this isn't "The Handy Dandy Slicer Dicer".

    This is a web hosting service.

    Granted, a little more flashy than your average hosting, but nothing that couldn't be done with a server, free software, and a little time. Plus, you would have complete control.

    This may be a great service for those people who intend to do a multi-million dollar launch. But for the beginning/intermediate internet marketer, I don't see the benefit.
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    • Profile picture of the author mpeters7
      The thing is that this product has been presold for months.

      (Not only has it been presold for months, but Andy reminds you several times that it has been presold for months.)

      What happens with these launches is, you're probably already sold on the product before you see the video. It's the same for most of the big guru launches.

      So if you already know you're going to buy it, then you're only watching the video to A. Get yourself excited about it and suck more enjoyment out of your purchase and/or B. Justify your pre-made purchase decision.

      In which case, you'll either watch the whole video for the entertainment of it, or you'll watch until you've justified your emotional buying decision and you just click the buy button (or email signup or whatever.)

      The video is well done, but it's not really that unseen in terms of artistry or technical achievement when you look at real After Effects pros.

      What Andy has that they can't reproduce, though, is the marketing power that he has, both in terms of his funnel as well as his copy skills.
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  • Profile picture of the author peter.max
    The real test is ... did you BUY the product today in the first place, and secondly, if you did was it as a result of the video or the 10 000 pre-sales gurus emails offering thousands of dollars of bonuses and because they recommend it.

    I didn't watch the videos. Way to long. Anything above 20 minutes I download (DownLoadHelper plugin in Firefox) but I rarely get the chance to watch them. It least I have them on my hard disk.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMChick
    I'm quite sure that I'm in the minority here, but, 59:21 for a video had me clicking the 'X' at the top of the tab to get away from it as soon as possible.

    So for me, all that glitzy production and the pre-launch promo is completely gone, and they will not recover me as a prospect.

    Must indicate how my life is going right now, but I'm still looking for a short explanation, or in internet speak, tl;dr (too long, didn't read), for something that could be done well in a shorter period of time.

    It's also frankly insulting to me that others putting forth a product sales letter of this length do not value my time.

    My 2 cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author TelZilla
      Originally Posted by IMChick View Post

      It's also frankly insulting to me that others putting forth a product sales letter of this length do not value my time.
      My point exactly. My time is precious to me. Time is money after all. If you don't value my time, I'm certainly not going to waste it on you or your product.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by IMChick View Post

      It's also frankly insulting to me that others putting forth a product sales letter of this length do not value my time.
      Poppycock!

      How in the world can anybody be insulted because a video takes the time to explain all the features of a product.

      It's not 'others' who are insulting you, that's a self inflicted wound.

      And as far as valuing your time goes, your posting about this pretty much sums up what your time is truly worth.

      Google the phrase "how do I use my back button" and save yourself from future tramas.

      ~Bill
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      • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
        Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

        Poppycock!

        How in the world can anybody be insulted because a video takes the time to explain all the features of a product.
        And therein lies the answer to how long should a sales page video be! Long enough to answer all the questions, but no longer.
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  • Profile picture of the author candoit2
    I have a theory on these long videos and webinars,

    I believe the whole point of long videos, webinars, and sales letters is simply to irritate the prospective customer.

    You irritate them to the point they become annoyed enough to stop analyzing the decision and just want you to give them the order button already.

    The fact they show up and are willing to sit through a long webinar or video shows considerable interest.

    They just want some more info, so give them so much they get to the point where they get annoyed and stop watching, listing and are waiting for the chance to make an order finally come.

    Different people take longer to break, so you can never have it too long.

    The video or webinar will be going, but once you've had enough you'll be listing to it to be over and get details on how to order.

    In the meantime you'll be hanging out here on the forum now, while it plays in the background...... then you buy when it's finally over.

    That's how it goes right?

    I can't be the only one am I? :-)

    Aaron
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    A promotional video should be long enough to get your point across
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    I have trouble sitting through a 1 hour training video, I can not imagine sitting through a 1 hour sales talk....ah, but then again, I have...

    How many well produced infomercials have any of you watched late at night? I often watched them for entertainment value as much as wanting to purchase the product. The problem is somewhere during the 1 hour infomercial you start shaking your head YES. You start wondering if the diet could really work, or if Anthony Robbins does have all the answers, or if you should be in Real Estate investing, or buying "tiny classified ads".

    Is an hour too long? It all depends if you can start to get people shaking their head yes or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stephen Bray
    Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

    The first video was almost 25 minutes, which I thought was kind of long.

    The second video was nearly an HOUR! What is going on here?

    Let's assume we cannot match the BOSS style productions, either through skill or investment - How long do you think a promotional video should be before either breaking it up, or simply cutting it mercilessly?
    I think a promo should be Max 5 minutes,
    UNLESS it's a mini course like the one
    Jeff Johnson is doing as a promo for
    Traffic Voodoo.


    The best part of the Kajabi Promo was
    the last mail prior to launch when all the
    features and benefits of the product
    were published in writing.

    I just don't have the time to watch
    hours of video just to find out what
    a product does.

    But I can read a long sales letter in
    just a few minutes and easily make up
    my mind from there.

    Stephen
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    Threads like this always serve to amaze and amuse me...

    We have a bunch of people... who admit they didn't watch
    the video... criticizing it for a variety of reasons they can't possibly
    know to be true... LOL

    The one hour video is far more than a sales pitch. Andy actually
    takes the time to walk you through the product, its features, functions
    and controls. He does it in a way that's not only informative but entertaining.

    Look... I know everyone's time is precious... but if you have any plans to
    incorporate videos into your marketing scheme your time would be well invested in
    watching this video simply for the education you'll receive if you pay attention.

    I doubt there are many here who have been as successful as Andy with
    video marketing. I think he might be saying something that is worth watching
    and listening to.

    As was pointed out above, the video can be downloaded for viewing
    at your convenience.

    Tsnydder
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  • Profile picture of the author MChriston
    I'm sitting here chuckling to myself, because isn't this just the 2010 version of "Does long sales copy work?" :p

    ...a debate that is still ongoing with pro's and con's no matter which side you take.

    Personally, and just like with long sales copy, I believe it depends on your market AND the relationship you have with it. Testing is the key as always, but also RE-testing as well.

    Think of it like this, if you love ol'cuzzin Andy then you're more likely to be prepared to watch his 1 hour extravaganza... however if you have never heard of him then upon seeing the video length is '59:21' that "X" button will instantly become mighty appealing!

    BUT... here's the caveat and why RE-testing is key...

    You may press "X" this time, but once you start loving what the cuzzin' is offering then in time you might start giving ol'Andy more of your precious minutes and hours.

    Your customers will be the same. Once they start to love ya, they might want to hang around for longer.

    (The same applies for lovers ...well I'm guessing that's the reason why my wife is still with me anyway... )

    Just a thought!

    M
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    • Profile picture of the author Stephen Bray
      Originally Posted by MChriston View Post

      I'm sitting here chuckling to myself, because isn't this just the 2010 version of "Does long sales copy work?" :p

      ...a debate that is still ongoing with pro's and con's no matter which side you take.

      Personally, and just like with long sales copy, I believe it depends on your market AND the relationship you have with it. Testing is the key as always, but also RE-testing as well.

      Think of it like this, if you love ol'cuzzin Andy then you're more likely to be prepared to watch his 1 hour extravaganza... however if you have never heard of him then upon seeing the video length is '59:21' that "X" button will instantly become mighty appealing!

      BUT... here's the caveat and why RE-testing is key...

      You may press "X" this time, but once you start loving what the cuzzin' is offering then in time you might start giving ol'Andy more of your precious minutes and hours.

      Your customers will be the same. Once they start to love ya, they might want to hang around for longer.

      (The same applies for lovers ...well I'm guessing that's the reason why my wife is still with me anyway... )

      Just a thought!

      M
      The difference between long sales copy
      and a long video is that with sales copy
      you, the reader, have much more control.

      You can just read the headlines, or
      the benefits, or the offer. I defy anyone
      to take as much as 50 minutes to read
      a long sales letter.


      The question of Andy demonstrating
      features of the product is well taken.
      But the key features could have been
      split into smaller videos.

      BTW I have purchased from Andy in
      the past and have no axe to grind.

      On the whole his stuff does what it
      says on the can. It's just that I really
      didn't have several hours to spare
      watching this promo, or for that matter
      most of the video promos that I'm
      invited to watch week by week.

      I'm a sucker for those long sales
      letters though

      Stephen
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    I just realized Andy has to be dying laughing at all of us having this discussion.

    Our discussion in itself proves he was effective. He has produced a product for IM'ers and here we are, a bunch of IM'ers, discussing his "product" indirectly. His "long" video has our attention, even if we are not watching it.

    How many Warriors are going to look at this thread, and go "What the heck is Kajabi?" and take off and go take a look.

    Don't you hate when our hating something turns into promoting it after all.
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    • Profile picture of the author Stephen Bray
      Originally Posted by Barry Unruh View Post


      Don't you hate when our hating something turns into promoting it after all.
      Hate rarely produces anything positive,
      and in business this is doubly true.


      This thread isn't about knocking any
      single IMer, or a product. It's about
      the appropriateness of long promotional
      videos that provide no opportunity for
      viewers to select what segments of
      the content are of interest to them.

      If Andy makes more sales through this
      thread, and his customers are happy
      then I will be pleased.

      Stephen
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