My Failed Experiment And Why I Don't Depend On Affiliates

[Steven Wagenheim]

Let me start off by saying in this post that I am not knocking affiliates. You
guys work very hard at what you do and should be applauded for your effort.

They just don't work for me.

I am posting this now because the contest is over and thus there is no
hidden agenda there.

This is what I did.

On October 10, I emailed a list of over 5,000 people. I essentially ran an
affiliate contest. I offered 3 top prizes, quite generous. The contest ran
until today.

Out of the 5,000 plus emails, I got back 8 replies from people even
interested in the contest, even with the generous top prizes.

Out of those 8 people promoting, there were a total of...

ZERO sales.

I did provide promotional materials and offered to help any way I could.

This is why I don't rely on affiliate marketers. For me, for whatever
reason, it just doesn't work.

If it was a matter of the products not converting, I'd say okay. But I sell
them like hotcakes and the one affiliate that I did have, until he got
bored with selling my stuff, sold over 100 each month like clockwork.

But he was the only one...and that's with 3 years of product creation
under my belt.

I don't know what it is. I also don't have the time to try to figure it out.

Thank God I make a nice living selling my own stuff.

God Bless guys like Dean Shainin who got me to promote his latest
product, who seems to be doing very well with affiliates. I know I'm
selling quite a few. But then again, I review the product and offer some
nice bonuses. So it helps.

Bottom line: It's not easy to find good affiliates. So, if you do, HANG ONTO
THEM FOR DEAR LIFE.

[Nick Brighton]

Hey Steve,

How were they promoting (the ones that took part of course!)?

Did they alter your promotional material? Have they made sales in
the past? Was the promotional material proven to convert/presell?

How much traffic did they send, from which sources?

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Let me start off by saying in this post that I am not knocking affiliates. You
guys work very hard at what you do and should be applauded for your effort.

They just don't work for me.

I am posting this now because the contest is over and thus there is no
hidden agenda there.

This is what I did.

On October 10, I emailed a list of over 5,000 people. I essentially ran an
affiliate contest. I offered 3 top prizes, quite generous. The contest ran
until today.

Out of the 5,000 plus emails, I got back 8 replies from people even
interested in the contest, even with the generous top prizes.

Out of those 8 people promoting, there were a total of...

ZERO sales.

I did provide promotional materials and offered to help any way I could.

This is why I don't rely on affiliate marketers. For me, for whatever
reason, it just doesn't work.

If it was a matter of the products not converting, I'd say okay. But I sell
them like hotcakes and the one affiliate that I did have, until he got
bored with selling my stuff, sold over 100 each month like clockwork.

But he was the only one...and that's with 3 years of product creation
under my belt.

I don't know what it is. I also don't have the time to try to figure it out.

Thank God I make a nice living selling my own stuff.

God Bless guys like Dean Shainin who got me to promote his latest
product, who seems to be doing very well with affiliates. I know I'm
selling quite a few. But then again, I review the product and offer some
nice bonuses. So it helps.

Bottom line: It's not easy to find good affiliates. So, if you do, HANG ONTO
THEM FOR DEAR LIFE.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Nick Brighton

Hey Steve,

How were they promoting (the ones that took part of course!)?

Did they alter your promotional material? Have they made sales in
the past? Was the promotional material proven to convert/presell?

How much traffic did they send, from which sources?

Nick, from what I was able to get out of my stats, it looked like not one
of them even got their promotions going.

What did they do? I have no idea. Nobody got back to me after I
replied to them with the materials.

You can lead a horse to water my friend, but you can't make them drink
it.

[Shannon Herod]

In my opinion it is tougher to actually go to your customer base for affiliates.

What I have found is the customer base is usually not as marketing savvy as New army.

But, if you go out and seek proven marketers to promote your product you will have a much better return on investment in my opinion.

Now, that's not saying you need to go out and approach all the big guns in the industry. That is just saying go out and find some C. and B. players that have a couple thousand to 10,000 people on their list. Then, you'll start to see some results.

Unfortunately, most of our customers will not or do not take the time to actually market products. It might be that they do not know how, or it might be that they are just too lazy. Either way, you usually do not find top affiliates from your customer base.

That is from my experience.

Shannon

[Marian Berghes]

Steve Im just gonna say what a couple of my friends that are on your list told me. They all told me basically the same thing: That your sites look to ”old-ish” in terms of design, and they thought that your products were not professional enough because of that among other stuff like copy etc...

Now...I don't want to pick a fight with you or something, nor I will give any names. I just told you what they told me.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Shannon Herod

In my opinion it is tougher to actually go to your customer base for affiliates.

What I have found is the customer base is usually not as marketing savvy as New army.

But, if you go out and seek proven marketers to promote your product you will have a much better return on investment in my opinion.

Now, that's not saying you need to go out and approach all the big guns in the industry. That is just saying go out and find some C. and B. players that have a couple thousand to 10,000 people on their list. Then, you'll start to see some results.

Unfortunately, most of our customers will not or do not take the time to actually market products. It might be that they do not know how, or it might be that they are just too lazy. Either way, you usually do not find top affiliates from your customer base.

That is from my experience.

Shannon

Shannon, that makes sense. These are people who are learning from me
and since most are newbies, I guess it's a lot to ask for them to be top
affiliates.

[Michael Dominic]

Steven, was the list you e-mailed a list of affiliates?

The reason I ask is because I remember reading a post of an experiment done with an affiliate mailing list. There was very little response. The reasoning was because people (affiliates) probably entered in their e-mail that they designate for junk, spam, or freebies.

[RC7000]

Perhaps you didn't offer them enough.

Shock!

[Ken Preuss]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Nick, from what I was able to get out of my stats, it looked like not one
of them even got their promotions going.

THAT is why you gave up on affiliates? None of those 8 people even got their promotions going. So how is your experiment remotely representative of what's possible with affiliates?

Let's be honest with ourselves for a moment. Your life story is "I can do it myself." Heck, you wear it as a badge of honor. Everything you write, everything you teach, everything you do screams it.

There isn't anything wrong with that. Not at all. But the reality is it has absolutely nothing - zero -to do with affiliate marketing.

How do I know it has nothing to do with affiliate marketing?

Because people who aren't living with "I can do it myself" are making thousands and even millions of dollars through affiliate marketing every single month.

Ken

[Nick Brighton]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Nick, from what I was able to get out of my stats, it looked like not one
of them even got their promotions going.

What did they do? I have no idea. Nobody got back to me after I
replied to them with the materials.

You can lead a horse to water my friend, but you can't make them drink
it.

Wow, so they didn't even TRY? Not even the top affiliates who have already
made money promoting for you in the past? That's crazy.

Could it simply be increased distractions/competition from other merchants?
Were your prizes juicy enough for them?

Apart from that, all I would say is what made you promote Dean's program? Perhaps
the clue to how he manages to harvest a such a huge army of affiliates lies in how
he persuaded YOU to get on board to?

With all said and done, I agree that getting super affiliates is hard work and the
fairy tale of "just putting a product on Clickbank and letting millions of people sell
it for you" isn't quite what it cracks up to be.

A dedicated affiliate manager would be my choice, but there goes a chunk of your
profits for sure.

The underlying problem is that affiliates are affluent. There's a real bridge to cross
with loyalty and no matter how close you are to them through your emails/other
communications, the truth is that they are driven by money so focus and loyalty is
always going to be tarnished with the sheer amount of competitive merchants out
there in the world.

But still, if you have affiliates who run long standing websites and make residuals
from your program every month, there's no reason why they would go out of their
way to drop your program that easily.

I think before long, people will begin to introduce real sales contracts (just like in
the real world) so that they can hire staff full time to get the sales coming in and
there is no easy way for them to squirm off at the drop of a dice.

[RGallowitz]

The best way to get affiliates to seriously promote your stuff is to fire up your skype and have a short conversation with them. Ok...obviously...if it's hundreds and hundreds then it won't work but certain key affiliates need to hear from you on a more personal level.

Also, affiliates are becoming more and more picky these days. If your copy is not up to par and your sales graphics look poor they just get sniff in the nose. It sucks, but it happens all the time.

[Maria Gudelis]

Hey Steve, urrrr...in all fairness, I was one of the 8 and how I wanted to promote is via a teleseminar -as my own sites/videos/etc. I promote mostly my own stuff or a $1,000 affiliate commission product, so that is why a teleseminar would have been a good choice - and in the past have brought great sales.

I did email you with the opportunity to put you on a teleseminar and alas, your answer was that your schedule was too crazy busy and if you might be able to give me a day or so last minute notice ...if that would be ok. I did reply that I was ok with that as long as I wasn't travelling and never received last minute notice from you - so no teleseminar.

Your products are fantastic, its just some of us do sell our own stuff too, are pretty busy as well, and sell higher priced / commissioned products so just wanted you to hear this explanation purely from a neutral standpoint of explanation.

Cheers, Mia

[Mike Bogowski]

It sounds more like you cant depend on finding affiliates from a mailing list of people who dont want to be affiliates. Thats backward logic.

Come on Steven, you know the basics. You're targeting the wrong people here.

You need to find people who are interested in selling your stuff who have experience in selling stuff like yours. I think the moment you embrace affiliates your business is going to take on a whole new level.

You just need to [successfully] get your feet wet.

[Cash Blasters Online]

I think the main truth is the world and the USA is going through very hard times, and people are upset at life. Hopefully that will change soon.

[jbsmith]

Steve - what I have found effective in the past is to really work on a couple of big names, then the remainder will take the promotion more seriously (herd mentality).

How do you get these big names?

- Go to seminars and form a relationship, then keep in contact with friendly communication where you sometimes help them out (supporting them on the forums, send them some content you developed especially for them, offer to do an interview and have it transcribed where you share the rights, etc...) Then, they are there when you need em.

- Buy their products - it's easier to ask them to promote you (or at least review your product and site) if you have purchased something from them. We, as product publishers know that we respect customers very highly and typically always respond to them - correct?

- Give them an offer they can't refuse. What can you do for them? Can you offer them a month's ad on your blog? Can you write 10 articles for them to use? Can you develop a custom report for them? Yes, this takes some work, but knowing that one big name can mean a dozen smaller (potentially even more lucrative) affiliates will actively promote will make it worthwhile.

- Give these elite affiliates 1-hour head-start in promoting over the others

It all comes down to relationships - if you build these relationships over time with the top names, they will support you when you need it...even if they can't mail for you, they can put their name behind your products and that will make a big difference.

Jeff

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by Mike Benkovich

It sounds more like you cant depend on finding affiliates from a mailing list of people who dont want to be affiliates. Thats backward logic.

Or who most likely don't know how to be.

This experiment was a failure before he even hit the send button.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Ken Preuss

THAT is why you gave up on affiliates? None of those 8 people even got their promotions going. So how is your experiment remotely representative of what's possible with affiliates?

Let's be honest with ourselves for a moment. Your life story is "I can do it myself." Heck, you wear it as a badge of honor. Everything you write, everything you teach, everything you do screams it.

There isn't anything wrong with that. Not at all. But the reality is it has absolutely nothing - zero -to do with affiliate marketing.

How do I know it has nothing to do with affiliate marketing?

Because people who aren't living with "I can do it myself" are making thousands and even millions of dollars through affiliate marketing every single month.

Ken

Ken, you completely misunderstood my post. I am not knocking affiliate
marketing. I do it myself. I am very good at it.

But for whatever reason, I don't have what it takes to recruit an army
of affiliates. The fact that I emailed a list of over 5,000 marketers who
actually buy from me, love my stuff, get my reports and my newsletters
and hang on my every word, and could only get 8 people to show any
interest, shows that I don't have what it takes to recruit affiliates. It's
obviously an art and one I haven't mastered. That's all I'm saying.

Nothing more.

[dwoodward]

Affiliates are great as long as they believe in the product you have and what you have actually converts.

My experience is if they do not believe in it they never really get behind it and you wont make sales.

Dave Woodward
Legenary Marketers Host

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Nick Brighton

Apart from that, all I would say is what made you promote Dean's program?

Honestly, I just wanted to help Dean out. I reviewed the product, liked
what I saw, so I agreed to promote it. He didn't even have to offer me
any prizes.

But that's just me. No, I don't expect people to be like me. I realize that
most affiliates are quite mercenary and it's all about what's in it for them, but
if yous saw the top prize for this contest, you would have jumped all over
it I'm sure. It was more than generous.

Anyway, I'm not sweating it. And I'm not going to let myself get dragged
into the negativity that I know is coming down the pike for this post. Seems
that because I can't recruit affiliates and don't care, I'm, well, whatever,

So be it. I can't let it bother me.

[Clark]

Steven, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." - Wayne Gretzky

Originally Posted by miaroman

Hey Steve, urrrr...in all fairness, I was one of the 8 and how I wanted to promote is via a teleseminar -as my own sites/videos/etc. I promote mostly my own stuff or a $1,000 affiliate commission product, so that is why a teleseminar would have been a good choice - and in the past have brought great sales.

I did email you with the opportunity to put you on a teleseminar and alas, your answer was that your schedule was too crazy busy and if you might be able to give me a day or so last minute notice ...if that would be ok. I did reply that I was ok with that as long as I wasn't travelling and never received last minute notice from you - so no teleseminar.

Your products are fantastic, its just some of us do sell our own stuff too, are pretty busy as well, and sell higher priced / commissioned products so just wanted you to hear this explanation purely from a neutral standpoint of explanation.

Cheers, Mia

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by miaroman

Hey Steve, urrrr...in all fairness, I was one of the 8 and how I wanted to promote is via a teleseminar -as my own sites/videos/etc. I promote mostly my own stuff or a $1,000 affiliate commission product, so that is why a teleseminar would have been a good choice - and in the past have brought great sales.

I did email you with the opportunity to put you on a teleseminar and alas, your answer was that your schedule was too crazy busy and if you might be able to give me a day or so last minute notice ...if that would be ok. I did reply that I was ok with that as long as I wasn't travelling and never received last minute notice from you - so no teleseminar.

Your products are fantastic, its just some of us do sell our own stuff too, are pretty busy as well, and sell higher priced / commissioned products so just wanted you to hear this explanation purely from a neutral standpoint of explanation.

Cheers, Mia

Mia, thanks. Okay, so that explains part of it. I would have loved to have
done the teleseminar but with my schedule it was absolutely impossible.

But I do understand. Affiliate marketing is not what it was 5 years ago.
You need to be more hands on and more specialized. But imagine trying
to do teleseminars with 100 affiliates. I'd lose my mind.

I appreciate your interest and your attempts. Like I said, I'm not blaming
anybody and as I also said, I just don't have what it takes to attract
affiliates. So it's a good thing I can sell my own stuff or I'd be on a street
corner with a tin cup, dark glasses and a monkey.

[killercopy]

Originally Posted by Shannon Herod

In my opinion it is tougher to actually go to your customer base for affiliates.

What I have found is the customer base is usually not as marketing savvy as New army.

But, if you go out and seek proven marketers to promote your product you will have a much better return on investment in my opinion.

Now, that's not saying you need to go out and approach all the big guns in the industry. That is just saying go out and find some C. and B. players that have a couple thousand to 10,000 people on their list. Then, you'll start to see some results.

Unfortunately, most of our customers will not or do not take the time to actually market products. It might be that they do not know how, or it might be that they are just too lazy. Either way, you usually do not find top affiliates from your customer base.

That is from my experience.

Shannon

I agree 100%...the great thing about the Internet is that there will always be more buyers than sellers.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Mike Benkovich

It sounds more like you cant depend on finding affiliates from a mailing list of people who dont want to be affiliates. Thats backward logic.

Come on Steven, you know the basics. You're targeting the wrong people here.

You need to find people who are interested in selling your stuff who have experience in selling stuff like yours. I think the moment you embrace affiliates your business is going to take on a whole new level.

You just need to [successfully] get your feet wet.

You're telling what to do but you're not telling me how to do it. The only
thing I know how to do, very well, is get JVs to create products and
promote them with another person. There is NO way I can put in that
much work to get somebody to promote my products already created. It's
too time consuming a process. And if I want to get an army of 100
affiliates, it's all I'd be doing every hour of the day.

Unless you have a better way. But again, I don't know it, so I can't do
what I don't know how to do.

[Ernie Lonardo]

Come on Steve...don't give up, this doesnt sound like you mate

Listen to this. In a little over a month, I've managed to get about 100 affiliates! And trust me, I didn't spend hours every day seeking them, so just imagine how many you could get with your reputation and if you did it properly. HUNDREDS or perhaps thousands in a few months.

Try the following resources and see how you go:

- Sign up as a silver member on membership millionaire. You can post your affiliate program on there, and they will mail your offer to their email list too.

- Search the CB and PDC marketplace for similar products and then contact the product owner

- Ask your network of friends/marketers

Everything adds up and you will get a few every day even if you don't do any recruiting that day.

I just know someone who as smart as you, can do well at affiliate marketing too!

[JayXtreme]

Waggerz.. did you miss what was mentioned above by Marian?..

Here's the deal Steve..

For ME to promote YOUR product.. I have to slap on the crazy gear and get down 'n' dirty right?...

For YOU to promote YOUR product.. it's different.. the social proof is in your hands...

Give me one of your products, with a new sales page.. and get someone like Bev to re-do the copy/look and feel inside the product.... then we'll see if I can change your opinion of affiliate's...

and let me show you why you are going about it all wrong in terms of affiliate's...

I could pimp Dean's products all day long as an affiliate because they stack up from links right through to the sale..

But with you it is different... your products work for YOU because YOU are the social proof behind them.. for me to push your product..I have to make excuses for the lazy look of your outfit...

That might be a little harsh Steve, but tough love is the best form dude..

This is said with the highest level of respect I have for anyone on this forum.. you rock dude..

I'm not saying ALL the affiliate's thought this.. but any good affiliate's you had in your ranks will have stepped away from it because of the extra efforts that is included with your game..

Peace

Jay

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo

Come on Steve...don't give up, this doesnt sound like you mate

Listen to this. In a little over a month, I've managed to get about 100 affiliates! And trust me, I didn't spend hours every day seeking them, so just imagine how many you could get with your reputation and if you did it properly. HUNDREDS or perhaps thousands in a few months.

Try the following resources and see how you go:

- Sign up as a silver member on membership millionaire. You can post your affiliate program on there, and they will mail your offer to their email list too.

- Search the CB and PDC marketplace for similar products and then contact the product owner

- Ask your network of friends/marketers

Everything adds up and you will get a few every day even if you don't do any recruiting that day.

I just know someone who as smart as you, can do well at affiliate marketing too!

Ernie, I only know how to work with people one on one in getting JVs,
real JVs where each one contributes to the product and then they launch
it. That's all I know. And that process is very time consuming.

Obviously, my mind can't wrap itself around recruiting affiliates. With all
that I know about writing and marketing, this one area just baffles me. I
admit it. Hey, we can't all be great at everything. This area is one that I
suck at. I don't even really know how to begin. I know how to sell my
stuff. I just don't know how to sell others on selling it.

If there's a coaching program that teaches this stuff (as long as it's not
too time consuming to actually put the practice into practice) I'll sign up
in a heartbeat. But for now, this is something that just eludes me.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

Waggerz.. did you miss what was mentioned above by Marian?..

Here's the deal Steve..

For ME to promote YOUR product.. I have to slap on the crazy gear and get down 'n' dirty right?...

For YOU to promote YOUR product.. it's different.. the social proof is in your hands...

Give me one of your products, with a new sales page.. and get someone like Bev to re-do the copy/look and feel inside the product.... then we'll see if I can change your opinion of affiliate's...

and let me show you why you are going about it all wrong in terms of affiliate's...

I could pimp Dean's products all day long as an affiliate because they stack up from links right through to the sale..

But with you it is different... your products work for YOU because YOU are the social proof behind them.. for me to push your product..I have to make excuses for the lazy look of your outfit...

That might be a little harsh Steve, but tough love is the best form dude..

This is said with the highest level of respect I have for anyone on this forum.. you rock dude..

I'm not saying ALL the affiliate's thought this.. but any good affiliate's you had in your ranks will have stepped away from it because of the extra efforts that is included with your game..

Peace

Jay

Jay, that may have been the most sensible thing that anybody has said
yet. Yes, I can walk the walk and prove that my stuff kicks ass. So yes,
it's very easy for me to sell it, bare bones and all.

So I guess it's decision time for me. Do I spend thousands of dollars to
upgrade the appearance of all my products in the "hope" that maybe I'll
get some super affiliates (never any guarantees) or do I just keep cranking
out my tons of sales on the cheap and make a nice living?

If you think this is an easy decision to make, it's not. You have to
understand something. My monthly promotional expenses are next to
nothing. So almost everything I make is pure profit. It's a joke. If I go
"pro" and get the top designers and copywriters and on and on, what am
I going to have left EVEN if I run a successful campaign? And if I don't,
then what?

I'll be the first to admit, I don't take many chances with my business. It's
what I'm comfortable with.

Having said all that, not getting a team of affiliates isn't going to send me
to bed tonight crying in my pillow. I just wanted to explain why I don't
put much effort into it. Everything I do usually results in zero results.
You've given me a very good reason why that might be. I accept it.

As to whether or not I someday decide to do something about it, I guess
only time will tell.

Right now, I'm not ready to sink that much into my business on something
that isn't a sure thing.

Makes me cheap? Yes.

Makes me stupid? Maybe.

But it also lets me sleep at night.

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Jay, that may have been the most sensible thing that anybody has said
yet. Yes, I can walk the walk and prove that my stuff kicks ass. So yes,
it's very easy for me to sell it, bare bones and all.

So I guess it's decision time for me. Do I spend thousands of dollars to
upgrade the appearance of all my products in the "hope" that maybe I'll
get some super affiliates (never any guarantees) or do I just keep cranking
out my tons of sales on the cheap and make a nice living?

If you think this is an easy decision to make, it's not. You have to
understand something. My monthly promotional expenses are next to
nothing. So almost everything I make is pure profit. It's a joke. If I go
"pro" and get the top designers and copywriters and on and on, what am
I going to have left EVEN if I run a successful campaign? And if I don't,
then what?

I'll be the first to admit, I don't take many chances with my business. It's
what I'm comfortable with.

Having said all that, not getting a team of affiliates isn't going to send me
to bed tonight crying in my pillow. I just wanted to explain why I don't
put much effort into it. Everything I do usually results in zero results.
You've given me a very good reason why that might be. I accept it.

As to whether or not I someday decide to do something about it, I guess
only time will tell.

Right now, I'm not ready to sink that much into my business on something
that isn't a sure thing.

Makes me cheap? Yes.

Makes me stupid? Maybe.

But it also lets me sleep at night.

I don't think it's stupid Steve.. you have to do what's right for your business...

I wasn't saying the above was good or bad for you.. I was just sayin it like it is..

Peace

Jay

[Melody]

Steve -

Managing a sales team does take effort, have done it both online and offline, and over the years, it seems like the 80/20 rule is in effect 'double time' here - 20% of your reps will take up 80% of your time.....and 20% of your reps will be responsible for 80% of your income.....unfortunately, the 20% that want most of your time are RARELY in the 80% that are producing your income....

<sigh> The fun part is always figuring out which 20% the one that is taking up your time today is going to belong to!!

But then you have a new affiliate call and ask you to be on a radio show that he has managed to book and all of a sudden - you know which 20% you have on the phone, and it makes your day!

Don't be down, Steve, you didn't fail with affiliates - there's a lesson in here somewhere....you just need to find it.

Isn't the purpose of an 'experiment' to find out what works and what doesn't?
Experiments don't fail - they just have results.....then you keep experimenting until you get the result you want......

Good luck!

[Thomas Belknap]

I agree with Steven. I think he should give up on the affiliates. He has made it known that he can't find them and it doesn't work for him ever since he came on this forum. It is already engraved into his mind that it will not work for him and I think it is a waste of time for him to continue unless he changed his mindset.


BTW, happy birthday Steven.

[JayXtreme]

On a similar note Waggerz..

Here's what Yaro Starak has to say about getting the most out of your affiliate's:

How To Motivate Affiliates To Promote For You - Entrepreneurs-Journey.com by Yaro Starak

Peace

Jay

[Mike Bogowski]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

You're telling what to do but you're not telling me how to do it. The only
thing I know how to do, very well, is get JVs to create products and
promote them with another person. There is NO way I can put in that
much work to get somebody to promote my products already created. It's
too time consuming a process. And if I want to get an army of 100
affiliates, it's all I'd be doing every hour of the day.

Unless you have a better way. But again, I don't know it, so I can't do
what I don't know how to do.

Fair Enough... Please take this as constructive criticism...

Change Your Attitude
Your whole mindset is wrong and if you aren't willing to change it give up right now. If a newbie has the attitude that its all too hard and not worth the effort then guess what? It is too hard and not worth the effort! You are too stuck in doing things your way, even though its quite obvious that creating affiliates will work. You need to approach it with a positive attitude as if you were a complete newbie.

Stop Complaining About Your Lack of Affiliates in the Forum
Every week or so I see a post from you complaining about how hard it is to find affiliates and how they aren't worth your time. Then you go out and try to recruit some. Chances are a substantial number of your subscribers are members of this forum and know this.

If that's your attitude about affiliates they wont want to deal with you, take emails from you or work with you.

Spruce Up Your Products
Your sales pages look like they are made in 1999. We have choices of THOUSANDS of products to promote. If someone is scanning the clickbank marketplace and clicks to your website they're going to click straight back. Why would I promote a make money product from someone who hasnt even spent money on a nice design.

But ugly pages sell, its all about the copy blah blah blah. For affiliates it isnt. If I come across a boring bland sales page I'm not even going to read the copy, ill click away and find a professional looking website WITH good sales copy.

Rebrand
I'll promote something if its either brand new or already promoted heavily. If a product has been sitting in the marketplace for a year with a gravity of 3 my assumption is that something is wrong with it. Rebrand your products with catchy names, smarter graphics and a new USP. Give people a reason to check it out again.

Outsource
Stop doing everything yourself!!! Grab a copy of affiliate elite and find affiliates who are promoting similar products and outsource someone to recruit people for you.

You mention your marketing costs are almost zero and that you make 6 figures a year. You could easily drop 10K of that money intro promotion and double your income.

In the end though its your mindset and negative attitude towards affiliates that is letting you down (in my opinion). If you aren't willing to think positively about it then don't waste your time trying anymore. Keep doing what you're doing, its obviously working for you.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Mike Benkovich

Fair Enough... Please take this as constructive criticism...

Change Your Attitude
Your whole mindset is wrong and if you aren't willing to change it give up right now. If a newbie has the attitude that its all too hard and not worth the effort then guess what? It is too hard and not worth the effort! You are too stuck in doing things your way, even though its quite obvious that creating affiliates will work. You need to approach it with a positive attitude as if you were a complete newbie.

Stop Complaining About Your Lack of Affiliates in the Forum
Every week or so I see a post from you complaining about how hard it is to find affiliates and how they aren't worth your time. Then you go out and try to recruit some. Chances are a substantial number of your subscribers are members of this forum and know this.

If that's your attitude about affiliates they wont want to deal with you, take emails from you or work with you.

Spruce Up Your Products
Your sales pages look like they are made in 1999. We have choices of THOUSANDS of products to promote. If someone is scanning the clickbank marketplace and clicks to your website they're going to click straight back. Why would I promote a make money product from someone who hasnt even spent money on a nice design.

But ugly pages sell, its all about the copy blah blah blah. For affiliates it isnt. If I come across a boring bland sales page I'm not even going to read the copy, ill click away and find a professional looking website WITH good sales copy.

Rebrand
I'll promote something if its either brand new or already promoted heavily. If a product has been sitting in the marketplace for a year with a gravity of 3 my assumption is that something is wrong with it. Rebrand your products with catchy names, smarter graphics and a new USP. Give people a reason to check it out again.

Outsource
Stop doing everything yourself!!! Grab a copy of affiliate elite and find affiliates who are promoting similar products and outsource someone to recruit people for you.

You mention your marketing costs are almost zero and that you make 6 figures a year. You could easily drop 10K of that money intro promotion and double your income.

In the end though its your mindset and negative attitude towards affiliates that is letting you down (in my opinion). If you aren't willing to think positively about it then don't waste your time trying anymore. Keep doing what you're doing, its obviously working for you.

Thanks Mike. Now that's what I call excellent advice. It at least explains
how to prepare for getting the affiliates (sprucing up pages, etc.) but
without a plan (surely there has to be one somewhere) to actually do the
recruiting, I'm still at square one as far as "Okay, so what now?" I have a
great product, cool looking sales page that kicks ass and $15,000 worth
of sales copy.

I still don't know how to go about getting an army of affiliates. And having
to get them one at a time seems to be the slow way of going about this.
There surely must be a quicker way.

[Nicola Lane]

Ok Steve, ( was one of the list that didn't respond. Let me tell you why.

1. this is what your e-mail said

Here is the list of products I have registered with Clickbank and the affiliate links. Just replace the xxxxx with YOUR Clickbank ID.

My Secret Articles

http:// clicks.aweber.com /y/ct/ ?l=CCktN&m=1cX1v.E27qeFYz&b=VdgvNy_pPpbOxLKzRiTEkA

When the links are clicked they go to the sales pages - there is no way from these to find the affiliate links.

Straight away I'm confused, the first link goes to a basically blank page asking people to sign up to a newsletter - no sales page for a product, and no clickbank hoplink. This isn't a promising start!

2. You mention prizes for the top affiliates - I'm a beginner, I was confident (OK wrongly as it turns out!) that there are plenty of more experienced people who already have campaigns going already selling your stuff, and I would have to start from scratch (this is a niche I am interested in - but I'm watching and learning at the moment I haven't taken the plunge to actually get going) and as you said:

Newcomers, you have some catching up to do

Quite discouraging really, I didn't think I had a chance - especially as I can't afford to do anything like PPC which seemed to be inplied from you saying:

I will send you my top ads for each one

and when I read that one of your affiliates sold 100 or your products in his first month - well I thought 10 was going to be difficult knowing that I was competing with people who were selling 100's . . . .

You are normally good with words Steve, I think you may want to look at the contest newsletter that you sent, because I got the message "if you are new - don't bother trying you are out of your league"

This newsletter didn't say "I'm looking to find some good sffiliate prospects who want to get started and keep going" This newsletter said "I need a bit of a sales boost - so can i get my super affiliates to put a bit more effort in please."

At least that is how I saw it!

[Ernie Lonardo]

Steve the (membership millionaire) method I posted above takes like 5minutes of work...has gotten me 30-40 affiliates in a day or two.

and the good thing is, once you have the affiliates, you have them for life and can get their eyes on your following products.

But yes, getting 1 affiliate at a time can be slow and if there is some better ways, I'd like to hear about it too.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Nicola Lane

Ok Steve, ( was one of the list that didn't respond. Let me tell you why.

1. this is what your e-mail said



When the links are clicked they go to the sales pages - there is no way from these to find the affiliate links.

Straight away I'm confused, the first link goes to a basically blank page asking people to sign up to a newsletter - no sales page for a product, and no clickbank hoplink. This isn't a promising start!

2. You mention prizes for the top affiliates - I'm a beginner, I was confident (OK wrongly as it turns out!) that there are plenty of more experienced people who already have campaigns going already selling your stuff, and I would have to start from scratch (this is a niche I am interested in - but I'm watching and learning at the moment I haven't taken the plunge to actually get going) and as you said:



Quite discouraging really, I didn't think I had a chance - especially as I can't afford to do anything like PPC which seemed to be inplied from you saying:



and when I read that one of your affiliates sold 100 or your products in his first month - well I thought 10 was going to be difficult knowing that I was competing with people who were selling 100's . . . .

You are normally good with words Steve, I think you may want to look at the contest newsletter that you sent, because I got the message "if you are new - don't bother trying you are out of your league"

This newsletter didn't say "I'm looking to find some good sffiliate prospects who want to get started and keep going" This newsletter said "I need a bit of a sales boost - so can i get my super affiliates to put a bit more effort in please."

At least that is how I saw it!

Nicola, thanks for the feedback. See, sometimes the problem is in the
communication with people. I can see your concerns and where you're
coming from.

Next time I'll try to write a more "uplifting" email. My problem is, and it
always has been, I am too honest with people. I tell it like it is because
I don't want people to think things will be a cakewalk, because they're
not.

I'm not a salesman, never was. I'm way too honest for this profession.

But I'm learning.

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Thanks Mike. Now that's what I call excellent advice. It at least explains
how to prepare for getting the affiliates (sprucing up pages, etc.) but
without a plan (surely there has to be one somewhere) to actually do the
recruiting, I'm still at square one as far as "Okay, so what now?" I have a
great product, cool looking sales page that kicks ass and $15,000 worth
of sales copy.

I still don't know how to go about getting an army of affiliates. And having
to get them one at a time seems to be the slow way of going about this.
There surely must be a quicker way.

What type of price range are your products that you want affiliates to promote?

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

What type of price range are your products that you want affiliates to promote?

They range from $47 to $97.

I know my very low end products ($27 and under) aren't going to have
much affiliate appeal. And yes, I know, if I took the time to put together
a TS2 type of deal complete with the DVDs, notebook and all the bells and
whistles on the sales page and tons of incentives, I'd have people rushing
to sell it. Believe me, I know what I have to do to have folks coming to me.

I'm just not ready for that yet. The work involved for that kind of product
and that kind of launch is more than I want to take on...at least right now.

[Nicola Lane]

Hi Steven, thank for being gracious about my criticism.

it wasn't your honesty that was the problem - but what I read and what you intended didn't match.

May I suggest that you send out a christmas/new years affiliate competition something along the lines of (You will have to tidy this up a lot!)

Hi folks, I had a few comments from affiliates new to my products that they didn't stand a chance with my birthday competition - so I am doing a christmas competition just for them! I'm re-launching my products with new pretty websites and and want to get your help with the sales.

Every affiliate that makes at least ten sales between xx and xx will recieve a christmas bonus of $20.

and then for the top three prizes of: $300, $200 and $100.

I'd love your feedback on what sort of promotional stuff you would like. Do you want text ads? banners? PLR articles that you can re-write? or a list of keywords for your own articles or PPC campaigns.

I'm waiting for xx until this is started so that you can get back to me with what you need to help you - then I will open my new affiliate area with the goodies you have told me you want!

Sign up now so that I can help you find a bit of gold for Christmas.



I did say it would need tidying!

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Nicola Lane

Hi Steven, thank for being gracious about my criticism.

it wasn't your honesty that was the problem - but what I read and what you intended didn't match.

May I suggest that you send out a christmas/new years affiliate competition something along the lines of (You will have to tidy this up a lot!)

Hi folks, I had a few comments from affiliates new to my products that they didn't stand a chance with my birthday competition - so I am doing a christmas competition just for them! I'm re-launching my products with new pretty websites and and want to get your help with the sales.

Every affiliate that makes at least ten sales between xx and xx will recieve a christmas bonus of $20.

and then for the top three prizes of: $300, $200 and $100.

I'd love your feedback on what sort of promotional stuff you would like. Do you want text ads? banners? PLR articles that you can re-write? or a list of keywords for your own articles or PPC campaigns.

I'm waiting for xx until this is started so that you can get back to me with what you need to help you - then I will open my new affiliate area with the goodies you have told me you want!

Sign up now so that I can help you find a bit of gold for Christmas.



I did say it would need tidying!

Nicola, actually, I like it. Naturally, this means a lot of work on my part
and with everything else I'm doing right now, I don't know if I could
get this ready for Christmas, but I'll sure as heck give it my best shot.

Thanks...excellent idea. Maybe I should hire you as a consultant for my
PR image.

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

They range from $47 to $97.

I know my very low end products ($27 and under) aren't going to have
much affiliate appeal. And yes, I know, if I took the time to put together
a TS2 type of deal complete with the DVDs, notebook and all the bells and
whistles on the sales page and tons of incentives, I'd have people rushing
to sell it. Believe me, I know what I have to do to have folks coming to me.

I'm just not ready for that yet. The work involved for that kind of product
and that kind of launch is more than I want to take on...at least right now.

The beauty of this is you know what you can do. It is just a matter of when or if you want to. I would give up on the affiliates until you are ready and make time to do it the right way.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

The beauty of this is you know what you can do. It is just a matter of when or if you want to. I would give up on the affiliates until you are ready and make time to do it the right way.

More sensible advice. Exactly.

Thanks Thomas.

[Hamida Harland]

I still don't know how to go about getting an army of affiliates. And having
to get them one at a time seems to be the slow way of going about this.
There surely must be a quicker way.

How about doing a relaunch? If you haven't read Product Launch Formula your chance to grab a copy is coming up soon . A proper launch should get you lots of affiliates, and the more affiliates you have the more you'll get once your CB gravity improves. Once you've spruced up your sales page with better graphics and copy, added lots of affiliate tools etc you could get an announcement made at JVNotifyPro about your launch date. If you participate a bit in the forum over there you'll find plenty of marketers who might be willing to do a JV with you.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Hamida Pall

How about doing a relaunch? If you haven't read Product Launch Formula your chance to grab a copy is coming up soon . A proper launch should get you lots of affiliates, and the more affiliates you have the more you'll get once your CB gravity improves. Once you've spruced up your sales page with better graphics and copy, added lots of affiliate tools etc you could get an announcement made at JVNotifyPro about your launch date. If you participate a bit in the forum over there you'll find plenty of marketers who might be willing to do a JV with you.

Hamida, more excellent advice. Basically this all comes down to a bit of work
on my part. It's a matter of finding the time to do it.

[Steven Carl Kelly]

Let me just add this...

"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

- Michael Jordan

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by faxinator

Let me just add this...

"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

- Michael Jordan

Next to Wayne Gretzky's quote, this may be one of the most popular
sports quotes of all time.

Yes, very true.

[Terry Hatfield]

Hi Steven,

I am afraid you are looking at the world with blinders on. Try peaking around them a little and you may see strange new things around the corner.

Seriously though, I think your problem is you just sent your email to your list of newbies.

Try running a wso on this forum for affiliates or an ad on clickbank or other sites that affiliate marketers visit and you may actually get someone that is already good at selling instead of people looking for free info and in info overload cycle.

Don't give up now just try something else.

Terry

[Hamida Harland]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Hamida, more excellent advice. Basically this all comes down to a bit of work
on my part. It's a matter of finding the time to do it.

It'd probably be a huge amount of work (I'd have alot of trouble finding that kind of time myself) - but it might be worth it in the long run because once you have a decent gravity the affiliates will come to you rather than the other way around.

Your product is much better than alot of the stuff that's pimped by affiliates at product launches, so you shouldn't be afraid to push the boat out with it.

I guess you could always hire a JV broker or someone experienced to co-ordinate the launch for you.

[Nicola Lane]

Here is a way around most of the work Stevenn,

Contact Warrior Kate Anderson. she does some amazing sites for sale on Sitepoint - she does a "clickbank package" - sales page, images, and affiliates page. You already have the wording for your sales page - you just need a good header and ebook cover to go with them. A nice affiliates page would also be good.

Here are a few of Kates auctions so that you can see what I am talking about.

? www.BloggingJackpot.com ?
? www.WAHStrategy.com ?
? www.AuctionCashGuide.com ?

I am sure that she (or whomever she hires!) could do a similar treatment for you at a reasonable cost.

Then just add a few bits to the affiliate page - personally i would like to see a few PLR articles, and a list of keywords. I'm sure you already have these!

Then do your new competition newsletter, and you are all set!

BTW, an important point for me is that if i make a certain level of sales - then i will get a bonus - I don't expect to be in the top three, but if everyone who puts in an effort is a winner, then more people will put in an effort. Well - I would!

[Kevin Flask]

Hi Steven,

I just wanted to spring off of Nicola's first post. Specifically the latter part of being out of my league.

You have identified your target market. Simply, new comers to internet marketing with very little knowledge. I am one of your cutomers. I can relate to a lot of your description of your cutomer base.

I can't be sure, but from my perspective, your customers may not be in a position to market your products. Myself for example. Until I experience a level of "consistent" success, I cannot in good conscious promote anything in the MMO niche.

I'm going to have to prove to myself what works.

And believe me...When things start to work and keep working...

I will promote the heck out of those products and marketers that helped to get me there.

So, I think it was said earlier...you went to your customers, new comers, as if they are affiliates.

I hope this helps Steven.

Oh and...Don't ever stop.

My problem is, and it
always has been, I am too honest with people. I tell it like it is because
I don't want people to think things will be a cakewalk, because they're
not.

I'm not a salesman, never was. I'm way too honest for this profession.

All the best,

Kevin