11 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
11 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

3 Ways to Instantly Ruin a JV/Affiliate Page

by Nicholas Ho
9 replies
I will keep this short and simple. But before that, I have to say that it is my 2 cents. Fact or not depends on your own thoughts and opinions.

Here are some of the problems I found while viewing JV pages.

#1 No Concrete Conversion Data

I am surprised 'coz this is what I saw in most JV pages :

I've consulted with _________ ( Copywriter's name ) and he is the the top copywriter, helping _______ ( Someone ) to get XX% conversion for their products.

My Take :

1) Mentioning who you have consulted or who wrote the copy for you doesn't provide your affiliates with any concrete conversion data. The results that your copywriter brought for others doesn't mean that it will be the same for your sales page. Different audience, different product.

2) Most affiliates are looking for concrete data in order for them to predict their earnings. Thus, conversion is the only metrics they can relate to. The above 'data' in your JV page is sub-par. Simple as that.

#2 EPC doesn't mean anything neither

To be honest , I don't know if EPC is a significant data. Most EPC that you saw on affiliate networks are made up of total commission/total clicks.

Commission is a fix data. Clicks aren't. Traffic can be driven from a lot of different sources.

I don't know who started the trend of stating EPC in JV pages , I am doubtful that it brings any significant meanings to affiliates.

Here is why :

The product owner did not mention where the traffic they comes from and what type of traffic they have tested. To the least, let the affiliates know that you are testing traffic from emails.

It is very very hard for affiliates to measure their effort using "EPC" as metrics as traffic sources aren't mentioned.

Some affiliates may use PPC, Article traffic or Social Media traffic and EPC that you have provided isn't really useful. You are comparing apple and oranges if the EPC you have provided is the EPC ( Using traffic from emails. )

#3 Did you segment your traffic?

I believe thats the biggest problem in JV pages. The product owner did not segment their traffic and do not know what is the conversion for different traffic sources.

Conversion is 5% for all traffic sources <----- EPIC FAIL

So how can PPC affiliate use your data to predict their earnings and break even point?
So how does article marketer know whether is their traffic converting or not?
So how does social media marketer know whether their effort is paying off?

You need to segment your traffic and you need to know the conversion rate for each of the traffic sources. Google analytics is your best friend. Use it to its potential.

My Opinion :

I believe JV/Affiliate pages should give affiliates and their JV partners concrete data that they can work with.

Assume that product owners have little traffic to craft the data, start working with your affiliates/JV partners to milk the data. Thats the closest you can relate to and thats YOUR JOB to do so.

For high traffic sites, start working on your Google Analytics and update your JV/Affiliate pages. You may be attracting super affiliates that you have previously missed to promote your product.

Some analytics tools you can instantly use :

1) Google Analytics
2) Mouseflow
3) Mixpanel
4) Logaholic
5) Clicktale
6) Woopra
7) Chartbeat
8) Kliknik

Whats your take?
#instantly #jv or affiliate #page #ruin #ways
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    Hey Nicholas

    Thanks for your post. I'm going to be working on an affiliate scheme I'm launching soon, so your post has given me lots of food for thought.

    I suppose you have to keep in mind that the sellers are trying to pitch their program in the best possible light (hence the "Conversion is 5% for all traffic sources" statement), while neglecting to tell you it's 1% for most sources and 15% for their guru friend Bill, who is an expert at preselling

    I think a breakdown of different sources / conversion rates is an excellent idea... and actually sounds much more credible and useful than a generic "5% conversion" statement.

    What else would you like to see in your ideal affiliate setup?
    Signature
    PresellContent.com - How to sell without "selling"
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2741560].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nicholas Ho
    Hey Paul,

    Glad you love the post.

    I think most of the golden nuggets that affiliates needed are all up there.

    Data, concrete data, reliable data is all an intelligent affiliate needed. More money to them, predictable income. End of story.

    I saw some of the marketers are collecting emails of affiliates and mail it to them when they have new product launches or whatsoever.

    Why not take the chance to tell them that you are testing every elements in the sales page using XXX tools and what are the results? It will be even better for affiliates as they know that you are testing everything and that the money and effort that they have spent is worthwhile.

    Whats your take Paul?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2743587].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      It's your job to test your traffic against the offer. You can also test pre-selling as well.

      If your good at pre-selling and building relationships you will get better conversions.

      How the heck is a product owner going to be able to relate those types of conversions to you?

      Do you really think if I break down article marketing at a specific conversion that you and everyone else will be able to obtain those same conversions? Well, maybe if you used the exact same keywords, the same pre-selling and call to action.

      How the heck do I know if you will be using buyer keywords or some keywords unrelated?

      Same with PPC.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2743998].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nicholas Ho
    It is the affiliates job to test their traffic against the offer.

    On how the heck is a product owner going to be able to relate those types of conversions to you...

    It is the product owner's job to quantify and provide insightful conversion data to their affiliates.In order for affiliates to get a glimpse of what type of conversion rate they can beat for what type of traffic. Affiliates will do the rest.

    That the closest affiliates can relate to. The job of product owner is to make things even more easy for affiliates.

    If you don't provide them with these data, do you think you are able to attract affiliates/JV partners to promote for you?

    That is why these people are providing insignificant data right now.

    I'm outlining that they should go deeper to mine a more significant data, data that make sense. The critical few. Not the insignificant many.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2744094].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Nicholas Ho View Post

      It is the affiliates job to test their traffic against the offer.

      On how the heck is a product owner going to be able to relate those types of conversions to you...

      It is the product owner's job to quantify and provide insightful conversion data to their affiliates.In order for affiliates to get a glimpse of what type of conversion rate they can beat for what type of traffic. Affiliates will do the rest.

      That the closest affiliates can relate to. The job of product owner is to make things even more easy for affiliates.

      If you don't provide them with these data, do you think you are able to attract affiliates/JV partners to promote for you?

      That is why these people are providing insignificant data right now.

      I'm outlining that they should go deeper to mine a more significant data, data that make sense. The critical few. Not the insignificant many.
      They are giving you conversion data. You just want them to do your job and test for every traffic source known to man.

      Any conversion data will be insignificant because of some of the factors I already stated.

      If you really think every article marketer will get the same conversions they you need to go back to learning.

      I think your being unreasonable and want the product owner to do your job.

      Your job is to test what offers are the best fit for your customers and which converts better that brings in the best ROI for your time and money spent.

      It isn't for the product owner to try to figure out what type of traffic or customer you are going to bring to the offer and test it out first.

      It looks like a lot of product owners are getting affiliates without the type of data you are asking. You can give them an idea of conversions but can't guarantee anything.

      Heck, I have one affiliate converting at close to 2% on a $100 offer while other members can't even convert at 1%.

      If you know your customer and the types of offers those customers want then you don't need the type of specific data you're requesting.

      It sounds like you don't know your customers.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2746011].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nicholas Ho
    They are giving you conversion data. You just want them to do your job and test for every traffic source known to man.
    A good marketer know their numbers. A great marketer knows what to do with their numbers. They analyzed them. So if you are a product owner and you don't know your traffic sources, conversion from each traffic sources well, do you think you really know the whole picture of your business well? Probably yes, probably no. But you may miss some opportunity here and there without mining for meaningful data.

    If you really think every article marketer will get the same conversions they you need to go back to learning."
    I think I've made a statement earlier on stating that the data that the product owner provide is the closest thing affiliates can relate to. I did no state that everyone are able to get the same conversion.

    I think your being unreasonable and want the product owner to do your job.
    Again, this is what I've said : I'm outlining that they should go deeper to mine a more significant data, data that make sense.

    I did not even mention that the product owner should do affiliates job. I am saying that they should make affiliates' job easier by providing meaningful data.

    You can give them an idea of conversions but can't guarantee anything.
    Thats what I am talking about. Products owner can give them an idea of conversions. But the current state of conversion data product owners are giving right now is an insignificant data. That is why I said they should go deeper. Thats the closest affiliates can relate to. ( Again, I said "relate", not guaranteed to have )

    If you know your customer and the types of offers those customers want then you don't need the type of specific data you're requesting.
    So why do we even need the conversion data when it is insignificant at all?

    If you are a list owner inside an industry, you should know your customers. Your second feelings will tell you part of the story of what your customers like but not the whole story. Part of the story are made up from the data you have collected.

    If you don't have a list inside the industry. You will definitely need the data to get a glimpse of what can be achieve and relate to. Again, I've said "relate". NOT guaranteed to have. Those data is vital for PPC affiliates, or other affiliates that are sending cold traffic.

    It sounds like you don't know your customers.
    1) Products owner may know their customers. Affiliates may not. Especially those who are sending cold traffic.
    2) So if you know your customers well, can you represent them in data? (Specific conversion rate) If you can't, can you really say that you know your customers well?
    3) "Conversion is 5% for all traffic sources." Do you think this dude really really know his customers well?

    So what is my point?

    I'm outlining that they should go deeper to mine a more significant data, data that make sense.

    I did not said affiliate will guaranteed to have those results. I never said that.

    Anyways, thats just my opinion.

    I may be wrong, I may be right. Just take whatever that suits you.

    Great discussion though =)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2746130].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Do you hit all traffic sources for your business?

      Banners, direct mail, ppc, ppv, article marketing, seo, viral marketing, social networks and so on...

      I would be interested in where you outsource if you do because each of those traffic sources require specific skills. I know I don't have enough time to learn everything.

      There is no reason why an affiliate would not know their customers compared to a product owner. That is weak if they don't and they shouldn't be in business. Well, I doubt they will be in business for very long.

      Any data a product owner gives affiliates is insignificant no matter how much you want.

      Conversions will be different for everyone depending on how you have set up your business.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2746284].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Nicholas, it's often said that there a three kinds of lies - lies, damned lies and statistics.

        Using the kind of conversion data you propose product owners provide is dangerous on two fronts.

        First, you have to take it on faith that the data is real. Like income proof, conversion data is very easy to fabricate and/or distort.

        What happens if I tell you that email marketing got a 15% conversion, but fail to tell you that the list involved was 100 people who have been buying everything I put out?

        Or what if I flat out lie and tell you that email drew 3.4975645% conversion, and the truth is I haven't mailed anything yet?

        The second danger is that the data is accurate, but no longer applicable, or the sources are tainted, or the offer different?

        Lots of variables to consider that pure conversion data either doesn't cover or could mislead.

        Then again, you did say it just your opinion...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2746410].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Nicholas Ho View Post

      A good marketer know their numbers. A great marketer knows what to do with their numbers. They analyzed them.
      I agree which is why an affiliate needs to know HIS numbers. They will not be the same as other affiliates or even the product owner.

      So if you are a product owner and you don't know your traffic sources, conversion from each traffic sources well, do you think you really know the whole picture of your business well?
      I am interested in you answering my question in regards to you testing all traffic sources in your business. Otherwise you don't really know your business according to you.

      Probably yes, probably no. But you may miss some opportunity here and there without mining for meaningful data.
      How much data is needed to make it meaningful?


      I think I've made a statement earlier on stating that the data that the product owner provide is the closest thing affiliates can relate to. I did no state that everyone are able to get the same conversion.
      That is why they get a baseline for conversions which is what you were complaining about.

      Again, this is what I've said : I'm outlining that they should go deeper to mine a more significant data, data that make sense.
      Basically, product owners won't need affiliates if we need to test all traffic sources. Why don't we just keep all the profits for ourselves?


      I did not even mention that the product owner should do affiliates job. I am saying that they should make affiliates' job easier by providing meaningful data.
      Affiliates should know their customers. You are doing this backwards. You are looking for a product first and then searching out customers. Those affiliates doing it the correct won't need much in terms of conversion data since they already have a list of customers and understand the type of products they want.


      So why do we even need the conversion data when it is insignificant at all?
      I answered this upthread.


      If you are a list owner inside an industry, you should know your customers. Your second feelings will tell you part of the story of what your customers like but not the whole story. Part of the story are made up from the data you have collected.
      You are talking like affiliates don't have any data. If they are doing this correctly they should have more data then product owners. They should know what types of products are converting for their customers.

      If you don't have a list inside the industry. You will definitely need the data to get a glimpse of what can be achieve and relate to. Again, I've said "relate". NOT guaranteed to have. Those data is vital for PPC affiliates, or other affiliates that are sending cold traffic.
      Hence the baseline for conversions. You still need to test. Affiliates are testing offers all the time with ppc. They just understand that it requires money to test out an offer and to ditch it if it doesn't pan out. They go on to the next offer and then the next. If they were actually building a list they would be able maximize their customer lifetime value.

      We are now talking about affiliates structuring their business properly and that has nothing to do with product owners.

      1) Products owner may know their customers. Affiliates may not. Especially those who are sending cold traffic.
      Cold traffic has nothing to do with knowing your customer or not knowing. If the affiliate doesn't know their customer then they are throwing money away. Not a product owner problem. If you want to get into affiliate marketing then it is YOUR job to figure this stuff out.

      2) So if you know your customers well, can you represent them in data? (Specific conversion rate) If you can't, can you really say that you know your customers well?
      I can represent buying habits in data. Same thing affiliates can do if they set their business up properly. In fact, affiliates should know more then product owners since they can test out many different products compared to a product owner with one line of products.



      3) "Conversion is 5% for all traffic sources." Do you think this dude really really know his customers well?
      I don't remember anyone stating a conversion percentage for all traffic sources. It is still the affiliate that needs to test his/her traffic to see if it converts. Look, this isn't difficult with split testing scripts on the market. THIS IS YOUR JOB. That is why you get paid. You find out what converts for your traffic.

      So what is my point?

      I'm outlining that they should go deeper to mine a more significant data, data that make sense.
      How can data make sense when it is completely arbitrary. It won't be the same for each person.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2746407].message }}

Trending Topics