[affiliate=none] Can cookie stuffing be the answer?

[greenovni]

Note: I am doing a study on the [affiliate=none] phenomenon happening at clickbank and this is just a test only.

I noticed clickbank checkout pages stripping my affiliate link only 'sometimes' on one of my links at this landing page Forex Brotherhood & Forex Funnel Side by Side Review...
(Please do not buy anything there as I am posting it as a test page)

The link in question is the one for Forex Funnel. As you can see, I have it set up to strip my aff id from the hoplink in the browser bar. My id always showed up on the clickbank checkout page before and now it only shows up sometimes.

Since I have 3 computer, I will test the current set up in a few minutes from all of them a few times.

Some right after clearing all my cookies and some with the browsers full of cookies.

Once I see the [affiliate=none] happening again, I will cookie stuff the page using the same clickbank vendors products.

The reasoning behind this is this, What happens if I FORCE the clickbank cookie as soon as the visitor lands on my page?

Will report back in a little while.

Greenovni

OK, back

Test Results

1. Cleared all my cookies on firefox on PC #1 and clicked on the link [shows my affiliate id] on checkout page. Same thing with IE. PC #2

2. Firefox. With cookies inside my browser for both forex funnel & forex brotherhood: Forex funnel showed my affiliate id @ check out page forex brotherhood did not, it only showed [affiliate=none]

3. Third test - Cleared ALL cookies from 2nd test and Forex funnel showed my affiliate id. NOW Cleared cookies again and with cookies window opened so I could see the cookies as they come in, forex brotherhood showed [affiliate=none] 16 times in a row.

The funny thing is while clicking on my affiliate link, NO COOKIES CAME THROUGH at all!!! 16 times in a row???

4. Continued same test and no cookies came through except a cookie from Kaptcha.com. Once this cookie came through, my affiliate id started showing up again.

The really weird thing is that clearing all the cookies and clicking on my affiliate link again and again did not deposit cookies from clickbank.net nor the forex programs themselves. It only deposited Kaptcha.com's cookie and showed my affiliate ID.

When the Kaptcha.com cookie did not come through, [affiliate=none]

Side note: When I tried both my affiliate links at the same time, 1 always came up with my affiliate id and the 2nd one sometimes showed it and sometimes [affiliate=none]

Cookie Stuffing test

Test 1: Stuffing both cookies (for both programs on my page) with .htaccess showed my affiliate id for both programs 25 times in a row with no [affiliate=none] errors

Removing .htaccess now to see if it's a fluke.

Test 2 - Stuffing looks to be working fine. Took it off the page and am changing it to a 'production' page to see if any sales are actually made.

Will report back tomorrow.

[tommygadget]

I really have to wonder what is going on here. If ClickBank is messing up the tracking, they are slitting their own throats. It is in their best interest to clear this up ASAP.

TomG.

[greenovni]

I BELIEVE that they are having cookie problems.

[Jesus Perez]

You just can't ignore solid testing like this. If you're not using it right now, check out Firefox's Web Developer addon. It has builtin cookie functions to view what's stored.

[JayXtreme]

I did this weeks ago and told people but nobody listened... it is a CB tracking issue with cookies..

Peace

Jay

[greenovni]

Funny thing is that is working with cookie stuffing, just took it out to see if it's a fluke result

[Michael Mayo]

C'mon guys,

That's the way the cookie crumbles!
Got Milk? Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation!

greenovni, Interesting results, please keep us updated.

I was going to do this test but instead I'll just watch
your results and save myself some time.

Thanks
Have a Great Day!
Michael

[Dan Thompson]

This subject has been going on for as long as I can remember, and it always comes back to the same point - it's not Clickbank that has cookie problems, it's applications on your PC that control spyware/adware.

When conducting your test, find some more people who have the same problem and get them to list their browser name, and any anti-virus and spyware ap's they are running.

The biggest culprit from memory was Spybot Search & Destroy, the "Immunize" feature add's a list of blocked cookie zones to your browser, and clickbank.com is one of the blocked zones. (As are CJ, Linkshare, Tradedoubler and all the other big affiliate networks)

[TheNightOwl]

Now that's interesting!

[greenovni]

Michael Mayo Will keep updating this thread

Dan Thompson Bull, I am testing on 3 different PCs that I own, one of them being a linux box and all have the same problem... Called in a few people to look at my landing page & same thing there.

If CB was blocked by an application or spyware/software it would ALWAYS say [affiliate=none] not just sometimes.

[JayXtreme]

Yup..

I did it across all my machines, for 500+ run through's and the ONLY time that I got no affiliate was during raw link testing (just straight link on normal page).. if I stuffed the hell out of it I got it correctly..

Peace

Jay

[greenovni]

JayXtreme You sound like a stuffing assasin

[JayXtreme]

It was ONLY as a necessity... on a test page of my own.. nothing untoward at all...

My main business is affiliate, so I had to get all my ducks in a row before I made some changes to my funnel

Peace

Jay

[Dlocks]

This subject has been going on for as long as I can remember, and it always comes back to the same point - it's not Clickbank that has cookie problems, it's applications on your PC that control spyware/adware.

Normally yes, but today there are to many confirmed problems where people see [affiliate=none].

See:
ht tp://w ww.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/27654-check-your-affiliate-link-if-you-promoting-strip-fat.html

h ttp:// forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1105668

h ttp://w ww.clickbanksuccessforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8334

CB tech team is looking into this at this moment because there is obviously something going wrong today.

[greenovni]

Stuffing has it's place in the arsenal...

[Dan Thompson]

Originally Posted by greenovni

Michael Mayo Will keep updating this thread

Dan Thompson Bull, I am testing on 3 different PCs that I own, one of them being a linux box and all have the same problem... Called in a few people to look at my landing page & same thing there.

If CB was blocked by an application or spyware/software it would ALWAYS say [affiliate=none] not just sometimes.

What about the browser you are using, are you having the same problems in multiple browsers?

[Stallion]

What about the browser you are using, are you having the same problems in multiple browsers?

Did you even take the time to read the thread?

[greenovni]

Yes Dan, IE6 IE7 Firefox Konkeror Sometimes shows [affiliate=none]

One of my linux machines has no antivirus, no spyware etc (My homemade phone system) and pulling up it's browser, does the same thing.

The cookie stuffing worked... Now I am doing a "permanent" solution for my landing pages until CB fixes whatever they gotta fix.

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by Dan Thompson

What about the browser you are using, are you having the same problems in multiple browsers?

I am..

Look Dan..

I am usually on the sidelines snickering at the CB paranoia crowd.. so I do get your point and this has been played out a bazillion times..

But seriously.. there is a bigger issue right now than a few adware programs and browsers..

I have put excessive amounts of time into getting my facts straight here.. I have had to adjust my whole business to counteract the effects.. I haven't lost revenue.. but ONLY because I saw it coming and took action after I tested things....my action was to find replacement products.. others may do differently to float their business.. that's their prerogative.

Peace

Jay

[jempub]

I've noticed a H U G E drop in CB sales starting at
the end of September... I've also had many JV
friends tell me the same.

Not too mention having customers email me saying
they were not able to purchase due to credit card
problems(on good cards!).

Gary

[Hamida Harland]

Originally Posted by greenovni

Stuffing has it's place in the arsenal...

Can't you get banned by CB for cookie stuffing though? If another affiliate finds and reports your sites they might close your account and withhold your earnings (I've seen it happen to a few people).

[greenovni]

That's another problem all together

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by Hamida Pall

Can't you get banned by CB for cookie stuffing though? If another affiliate finds and reports your sites they might close your account and withhold your earnings (I've seen it happen to a few people).

Yep... if you did this in real time for actual sales.. you would be in trouble.. but for testing purposes I see no other way...

[Hamida Harland]

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

Yep... if you did this in real time for actual sales.. you would be in trouble.. but for testing purposes I see no other way...

That's what I thought - I'd be tempted to test it out myself in the situation we're in, but I don't fancy losing my accounts either

[Ron Douglas]

If it was cookie stuffing, I would think that there would be an affiliate nickname - just not yours.

Affiliate=none would deliver the full sale to the vendor and no affililiate would be paid.

Maybe CB is having an issue with their cookies because a couple of vendors I know are experiencing an increase in direct sales not referred by affiliates.

Personally, I still have some affiliates who are doing well promoting my Clickbank products.

[Dan Thompson]

Originally Posted by Stallion

Did you even take the time to read the thread?

I did thanks ;-)

I know checking the browser it's an obvious thing to state, but when something like this happens it's usually down to 1 (or more) of 3 things - Anti virus software, Browser, or a Problem with tracking. Getting rid of the browser and anti-virus as possible causes helps track the problem down.

It's very strange that it's not happening to everyone if as it looks, it is a CB error. Speaking from a personal POV I've tested a few different CB links of my own as well as random publishers and the affiliate always shows up at the bottom. I wonder if it's a problem with a specific server, rather than the entire network.

[JayXtreme]

No Ron.. you don't understand..

The stuffing only pre-empts the placement of a cookie because the CB links aren't giving them, they aren't being passed across...

We're not saying cookie stuffing is to blame, we are saying it is the only way to force a cookie to stick(for testing purposes ONLY)

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by Dan Thompson

I did thanks ;-)

I know checking the browser it's an obvious thing to state, but when something like this happens it's usually down to 1 (or more) of 3 things - Anti virus software, Browser, or a Problem with tracking. Getting rid of the browser and anti-virus as possible causes helps track the problem down.

It's very strange that it's not happening to everyone if as it looks, it is a CB error. Speaking from a personal POV I've tested a few different CB links of my own as well as random publishers and the affiliate always shows up at the bottom. I wonder if it's a problem with a specific server, rather than the entire network.

Yup.. the sporadic effects are probably due to it being an isolated incident on only a certain area of CB's operation(albeit a big area) so it is affecting MANY but not all

[greenovni]

Hamida Pall Like I said before, I am testing ways to eliminate the affiliate=none problem

Blackhat cooking stuffing is going to other sites, forums, myspace etc stuffing your affiliate cookies all over the place hoping that someone will buy from the merchant & you get credit.

In this case, I am merely forcing my cookie (as a test) on my own website since CB can't do the job correctly right now due to their problems.

The people that come to my website, came on their own free will, cookie was delivered, read the whole page and decided to buy or not. If they buy, I get the credit which is what we all strive at, if they leave the page then nothing lost... at least my commission was not lost due to delivery of cookie problems.

Also notice that the people landing on my page, will have to click on my affiliate link, go to the vendor's page & make their decision there. I am not stuffing them and then sending them directly to the sales page.

Actually, I am not stuffing anyone at all in this test... as it is nothing more than that, a test

[matthewd]

Originally Posted by greenovni

Stuffing has it's place in the arsenal...

This is a bit off topic... but how is stuffing considered bad?

Maybe I misunderstand it, but if we are only stuffing on our own affiliate pages, I don't see how it is "stealing commissions" or anything people say.

It is VERY interesting though that stuffing seems to solve this issue.

[greenovni]

matthewd Stuffing is bad as I mentioned above which is to stuff a lot of websites with high traffic that you don't own.

I see no problem stuffing a cookie for the particular product you are promoting in your landing page. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Wayne]

When testing with Firefox, you also need to clear the cache in addition to
the cookies. If you clear the cookies and not the cache, Firefox will serve
the page from the cache, and so even if you go through your hoplink the link
will not go through Clickbank first and your id will not show on the order form.
Try testing clearing cookies and cache both.

[howdo-i]

Originally Posted by Dan Thompson

I did thanks ;-)

I know checking the browser it's an obvious thing to state, but when something like this happens it's usually down to 1 (or more) of 3 things - Anti virus software, Browser, or a Problem with tracking. Getting rid of the browser and anti-virus as possible causes helps track the problem down.

It's very strange that it's not happening to everyone if as it looks, it is a CB error. Speaking from a personal POV I've tested a few different CB links of my own as well as random publishers and the affiliate always shows up at the bottom. I wonder if it's a problem with a specific server, rather than the entire network.

How do you know that it isn't happening to everyone? This is an intermittent phenomena that seems to hit people and products randomly. When I did a quick check on my affiliate id in the sales page it was ok but this was in no way a serious test of a problem that comes and goes.

There are many people all saying the same thing which is that their conversion rates have been down since the end of September and it applies to me too. I've been getting more hops and less sales. CTR has halved from 50:1 to 100:1.

Steve

[matthewd]

Originally Posted by greenovni

matthewd Stuffing is bad as I mentioned above which is to stuff a lot of websites with high traffic that you don't own.

I see no problem stuffing a cookie for the particular product you are promoting in your landing page. Nothing more, nothing less.

Okay, that makes perfect sense... I didn't even know you could stuff pages you don't own so I was confused why people were so upset about the cookie stuffing stuff.

[Hamida Harland]

Originally Posted by greenovni

Hamida Pall Like I said before, I am testing ways to eliminate the affiliate=none problem

Blackhat cooking stuffing is going to other sites, forums, myspace etc stuffing your affiliate cookies all over the place hoping that someone will buy from the merchant & you get credit.

In this case, I am merely forcing my cookie (as a test) on my own website since CB can't do the job correctly right now due to their problems.

The people that come to my website, came on their own free will, cookie was delivered, read the whole page and decided to buy or not. If they buy, I get the credit which is what we all strive at, if they leave the page then nothing lost... at least my commission was not lost due to delivery of cookie problems.

Also notice that the people landing on my page, will have to click on my affiliate link, go to the vendor's page & make their decision there. I am not stuffing them and then sending them directly to the sales page.

Actually, I am not stuffing anyone at all in this test... as it is nothing more than that, a test

Don't worry, I'm not being judgemental or anything, each to their own . I've actually tried it a while back to see if it would improve sales (stuffing a cookie for the particular product I was promoting on my landing page).

I tried it because it was recommended in the ebook of a respected marketer - however it didn't improve my sales at all (he was talking about PPC landing pages though). I only did it to try it out, but stopped when I found a few people had been banned when other affiliates reported them.

[greenovni]

Wayne Did that, still the same problem.

Seems like CB tracks the last cookie served in the browser...

[greenovni]

Hamida Pall I'm sorry if I sounded rough... my apologies.

Cookie stuffing is in the arsenal of a lot of big people and some of them even stuff their blogs for a ton of products.

In the clickbank case, I do not think cookie stuffing on a massive scale would work since they credit the 'last' cookie to arrive in your browser before going to the checkout page.

If I was to stuff 100 people at random and 99 went to other affiliate landing pages and clicked on their hop link - 1 of them tried to be slick and went directly to the vendors, I would have only been successful in stuffing 1 and would receive commission for that 1.

Whereas the 99 that clicked on the other hop links would have been credited to their respective affiliates.

Now, I think stuffing your own page with the product you are promoting to protect your commission because of CB problems should be fair game.

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by greenovni

Wayne Did that, still the same problem.

Seems like CB tracks the last cookie served in the browser...

Yes, last cookie gets the credit with Clickbank. That is the way it is supposed to be.

Try adding a different parameter to the same link and see if your id shows, like
YOURID.VENDORID.hop.clickbank.net?tid=1
YOURID.VENDORID.hop.clickbank.net?tid=2
YOURID.VENDORID.hop.clickbank.net?tid=3

This way Firefox will see each link as different and will not serve it from its cache. It
would be interesting to know if your id shows on the order form testing this way.

[Wayne]

There has been a thread on the Clickbank Success Forum where it states
that Clickbank has been made aware of a problem and are working on fixing
it. Currently, it looks like that other forum is having a mysql problem and I
am unable to access it.

UPDATE: I'm able to access it again, here it is:
http://clickbanksuccessforum.com/for...pic.php?t=8334

[spudzz]

On a review page devoted to one product it's difficult to see how any affiliate network like ClickBank is going to take offence to single product cookie stuffing. Stuff half a dozen products off the page and yes, there could be issues.

In any case, real black hat cookie stuffers don't target single products usually but whole networks like eBay.

It would be interesting to see if different methods of stuffing produce different success rates with ClickBank at the moment. Time to surf the BH forums for a while ;-)

[kevin campbelle]

Hey Green,

Steven just posted (post #63) in this thread here and I tried the same products that was showing affiliate = none before and it's showing my affiliate ID now.

Try testing the normal way and see if the problem has been resolved.

Kevin.

[tomw]

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

I did this weeks ago and told people but nobody listened... it is a CB tracking issue with cookies..

Peace

Jay

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." Aurthur Shopenheimer.

Thomas

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by tomw

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." Aurthur Shopenheimer.

Thomas

boo yahh.. I like it

[tomw]

Hey fella,

just like you, a couple of our developers discovered;

"The Shocking Truth About Clickbank Cookie Problems!"

a while ago, but as my favourite philosopher, Stan Laurel said,

"you can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be led"

Thomas

[Neil S]

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

I am..

I have put excessive amounts of time into getting my facts straight here.. I have had to adjust my whole business to counteract the effects.. I haven't lost revenue.. but ONLY because I saw it coming and took action after I tested things....my action was to find replacement products.. others may do differently to float their business.. that's their prerogative.

Peace

Jay

Hey Jay,

I have been reading your warnings for weeks, you have definitely been out in front of this problem. Can I ask how exactly you changed your products? Are you simply promoting different products on Clickbank that did pass your tests? Or are you promoting products from a different affiliate network?

[jasonl70]

What I know of cookie stuffing, I don't see how this could work as it still requires 1) a hop link, and 2) the cookie to be served from CB.

Are you stuffing the same link multiple times, hoping to get one of them to 'stick'?

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by Neil S

Hey Jay,

I have been reading your warnings for weeks, you have definitely been out in front of this problem. Can I ask how exactly you changed your products? Are you simply promoting different products on Clickbank that did pass your tests? Or are you promoting products from a different affiliate network?

I found alternatives and twisted my marketing up a little..

In the dieting niche I cut 3 new programs for physical products, commission is less but I am up in revenue due to proper tracking and much better products. I led my marketing towards the physical edge instead of digital and the target market responded well..

The make money niche is jam packed with alternatives so I am switching much over.. and many of the products are on RAP and pay instantly etc..

There are literally TONS of independent affiliate programs out there.. the trick is getting on the phone with the company and getting a feel for the, let them know you are a serious marketer and craft a relationship so you get good response and service..

Peace

Jay

p.s. Google : "niche + affiliate program" or "product + affiliate program"

I have found personal development courses that pay out at $500 a sale like this.. it works.. in every niche

p.p.s. When the independents out there see the kind of traffic some of us affiliates can send their way, they bend over backwards for us...

[moreonlife]

The problem has been solved. Clear your browser cookie/cache and then check your order page again. Everything is back to normal.

Syed

[greenovni]

moreonlife How do you know the problem has been solved?

[moreonlife]

I had same problem. I've tested earlier and most of my best performing product's order page were showing

[affiliate=none]

I have checked and once again my aff id is appearing for the same products.

Syed