Hijacking Affiliates - Cookie Stuffing Explained

[matthewd]

Were you speaking with your eyes closed too when you said "thanks?"

Okay, it may be simple to you... I am not good with the technical stuff at all, so it is not simple to me "thanks."

The site I do it on is a big Joomla site and every time I need to change something, I have to talk it over with a tech guy first and see what it takes and see if I need to pay him to do it for me.

So... there IS something to look into.

I have said many times already that I see where you guys are coming from... I understand it; I just personally don't have a problem with it. No need for everyone to get pissy and go into attack mode.

[GarrieWilson]

Originally Posted by matthewd

Were you speaking with your eyes closed too when you said "thanks?"

It was italicized for a reason.

I have said many times already that I see where you guys are coming from... I understand it; I just personally don't have a problem with it. No need for everyone to get pissy and go into attack mode.

Disagreeing isn't an attack mode. Showing how you are possibly stealing from people, isn't attacking.

You are taking it as attacks because you are being defensive about your rationalizations of your actions.

When ClickBank cancels your account and doesn't pay the funds, be sure to let us know.

[matthewd]

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

It was italicized for a reason.

Yeah, that was a joke... I guess you're not a South Park fan.

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Disagreeing isn't an attack mode. Showing how you are possibly stealing from people, isn't attacking.

You are tacking it as attacks because you are being defensive about your rationalizations of your actions.

When ClickBank cancels your account and doesn't pay the funds, be sure to let us know.

Okay, it is just more smug than attacking I guess.

I am not going to argue with Clickbank about it... they call the shots and as much as I hate what they are doing to affiliates, I am not going to tell them to shove it.

I sent them a reply asking some questions about it and they never got back to me... I assume it is not a big deal to them and they simply contacted me to be able to say that they did.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by matthewd

TheNightOwl - I don't think I said I was confused... I actually think I said I see where you guys are coming from and just disagree.

Steven - Now you are just being a dick. Maybe you did not read everything I have put before getting so smug and acting like you are SOOOO good that you get your clicks and sales no matter what... it doesn't matter if Clickbank is having issues, you are so good that you fix these issues, right?

If you would look in my previous posts, you would see that it is saving my ass from this Clickbank tracking issue. 52% of my sales are coming from the stuffed cookie as opposed to 15% before all of their crap started. And as was decided in another thread with a bunch of testing, just clicking the link is often bringing up "affiliate=none" whereas the stuffed cookie got tracked every time.

Now, if you would pay attention to some more of what I said... I also agreed that it would be better for me to stuff the cookie AFTER the click. I am not sure on how to do this, but I will look into it.

EXCUSE ME? I'm being a dick?

You're breaking the TOS of just about every major affiliate program
out there and I'M being a dick?

Well, one more person I know not to ever do any business with.

Wow, talk about an attitude.

** EDIT **

PS. You remind me of the guy I got into an argument the other
day at the BlueFart forum who said it was okay to steal my
product because he's struggling to feed his family and couldn't
afford it. You can rationalize anything you want when it suits
you...but it doesn't make it right.

Wow, I still can't believe there are people who truly believe
this crap.

[matthewd]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

EXCUSE ME? I'm being a dick?

You're breaking the TOS of just about every major affiliate program
out there and I'M being a dick?

Well, one more person I know not to ever do any business with.

Wow, talk about an attitude.

Haha, I was waiting for you to see that... I actually figured the post would be longer.

It's funny to hear you say something about someone's attitude.

I admit that it is breaking their TOS and I am not saying that breaking any TOS is a good thing to do. Oh, it's not every affiliate program... I am only a Clickbank affiliate.

That's fine that you will not do any future business with me... I was calling it how I saw it as you usually say. So, if you don't like it, that's fine man.

I do apologize that it offended you, but there was a lot of smugness in your post.

** EDIT **

I don't have a family to feed

I can't rationalize "anything" Steven. I can rationalize me losing 52% of my sales b/c of a tracking issue and me taking measures to safeguard that 52%.

Can you not rationalize that?

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by matthewd

Haha, I was waiting for you to see that... I actually figured the post would be longer.

It's funny to hear you say something about someone's attitude.

I admit that it is breaking their TOS and I am not saying that breaking any TOS is a good thing to do. Oh, it's not every affiliate program... I am only a Clickbank affiliate.

That's fine that you will not do any future business with me... I was calling it how I saw it as you usually say. So, if you don't like it, that's fine man.

I do apologize that it offended you, but there was a lot of smugness in your post.

Yes, robbing from people (which is what you're doing) offends me.

Smug? I've restrained myself from telling you EXACTLY what I think of
you so consider yourself lucky.

[matthewd]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Yes, robbing from people (which is what you're doing) offends me.

Smug? I've restrained myself from telling you EXACTLY what I think of
you so consider yourself lucky.

How would it make me lucky man?

You telling me off is not going to make me cry...

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by matthewd

How would it make me lucky man?

You telling me off is not going to make me cry...

Matthew, considering I have zero respect for thieves, and therefore have
zero respect for you, you're not worth any more of my time.

As Garrie said, let us know when Clickbank shuts down your account.

Have a nice life.

[matthewd]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Have a nice life.

Thanks man, you too!

It's funny how you ignored this though:

"I can't rationalize "anything" Steven. I can rationalize me losing 52% of my sales b/c of a tracking issue and me taking measures to safeguard that 52%.

Can you not rationalize that?"

[terryd]

Criminals always try to rationalize or justify what they do also...........

[GeorgR.]

on a side-note, back to the subject, i have a question:

Doesn't any new cookie overwrite whatever cookie is on the PC?

So...Mr "BlueFart Stuffer" could stuff Joe User with cookies, but when he goes to my site via valid hoplink he gets a new one...and my cookie is the last recent one..therefore its irrelevant whether someone stuffed him?

G.

[matthewd]

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

on a side-note, back to the subject, i have a question:

Doesn't any new cookie overwrite whatever cookie is on the PC?

So...Mr "BlueFart Stuffer" could stuff Joe User with cookies, but when he goes to my site via valid hoplink he gets a new one...and my cookie is the last recent one..therefore its irrelevant whether someone stuffed him?

G.

Yeah, the newest affiliate link overwrites the previous one.

[GarrieWilson]

Originally Posted by matthewd

Yeah, that was a joke... I guess you're not a South Park fan.

I use to be. I still find it funny but just dont have the time to watch it. I do plan on getting it on DVD though.

Okay, it is just more smug than attacking I guess.

Yeah, smug but I wasnt being smug. Somethings justt dont come across well in the written word.

I'm not as big of an ass as I appear to be. Promise.

[matthewd]

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

I use to be. I still find it funny but just dont have the time to watch it. I do plan on getting it on DVD though.

Yeah; I have DVR, so I just set them to record and watch them as I have time.

[QUOTE=GarrieWilson;253557Yeah, smug but I wasnt being smug. Somethings justt dont come across well in the written word.

I'm not as big of an ass as I appear to be. Promise. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, I am sure you are not an ass. I have made myself out to be a pretty big ass in this thread and I really am not that bad.

Aside from the person that has directly expressed a dislike for me, I am sure there are others that feel that way now.

[Ruth Hendrickson]

Well this has been a very interesting thread to follow. There's one thing for sure, and that's ClickBank has some problems with crediting the right people with sales.

Maybe they should hire Matthew to figure things out for them. LOL

[matthewd]

Originally Posted by Ruth Hendrickson

Well this has been a very interesting thread to follow. There's one thing for sure, and that's ClickBank has some problems with crediting the right people with sales.

Maybe they should hire Matthew to figure things out for them. LOL

That's true, they are having issues.

I am not the one that realized that stuffing the cookie fixed it though; I actually read that in a thread the other day.

[zoidberg]

matthewd,

I'm afraid it IS stealing. Theres a reason its specifically banned in the TOS of all major affiliate networks and programs.

Unfortunately you are almost certainly stealing a large percentage of your additional sales direct from the merchant, not affiliates. I dont think you will be taking many sales from other affiliates as the last affiliate will overwrite the cookie anyway, as has been mentioned.

But the merchant will lose often 50%+ of a sale to someone who had no influence in making the sale. You couldnt have - they didnt follow the link.

I'm not saying your presell page is poor, but in general why should a poor presell affiliate page get a commission when it didnt sell anything? And there are a massive number of poor affiliate pages out there.

I wonder what you would think of cookie stuffing if you were the merchant, and knew you were losing money to unscrupulous affiliates? I also wonder if your opinion of the rights and wrongs would be different if you didnt know you were making money because of it? If you werent profiting from doing this, would you think cookie stuffing was stealing? I think looking at it objectively, you might.

Personally I dont think it can be justified.

[schmutly]

Wow.....What a read.

You know alot of people have missed the most important part of selling, regardless of cookies. and that is if you can't add VALUE to a customer then your no different than ANY other site, affiliate or otherwise.

There is a BETTER way to win the prospect and it has always worked since marketing began. That is.......offer value in the form of a REAL BONUS.
This will always work because at the end of the day reviews are reviews are reviews and the searcher needs that little extra, i think, for using up his time searching for a site/review that 'sells' him on the product.

And i mean a bonus that 'compliments' the main product and not rehashed junk. Like a report that fills in the blanks of the product your promoting (of which you did get to check out to see if you would 'really' want to buy it yourself)

Lastly, if your confident in a product i think your review (and bonus) would stand out in the affiliate crowd and people would conceive you as genuine and trustworthy person...another reason why you SHOULD put your face on your review page so a reviewer can see that someone real is giving a real review.Chow,

Robbie

[GeorgR.]

could you plain explain this to me...i seem not to get something.

On BHW i read that people making a fortune with CS.

So..i stuff up someone with 100 CB cookies, but i would only get credit for a sale if the user (later on) would decide he wants to buy a product, say, from CB.....and if he goes to the vendor page directly and NOT through another affiliate link?!

So...its basically stealing from the publishers (their profit MINUS commission)...but not from other affilates?

I am still stumped over those extreme high profit claims over at BHW..key seems to be to do some really dirty things like forum stuffing and stuff thousands and thousands of people...and then depend on how many og those people would buy something in the future directly from the vendor?

G.

[rokeby23]

If someone realizes your are "cookie stuffing" they will have a lot less respect for your company than they did before. In the end this could hurt your sales and ruin your repuation as a website owner/company. I wouldn't advise this route guys.

[Jason Moffatt]

Here's why cookie stuffing is lame, and downright theft.

Insert "Guru John" (name just made up).

Guru John has a huge following. Tons of people love John. John also happens to be my number one affiliate. I make good money from John.

Sadly, John stuffs the hell out of cookies.

John also has many members who happen to be my affiliates as well. These people don't make nearly the amount of money that John does. They are struggling and hoping to make ends meet through affiliate marketing.

So, the little guy affiliate goes out and busts his ass to make some sales for my program. And he does a good job. He makes some sales. But guess what?

John's cookie stuffing has over-ridden the little guys cookie.

Now, I could just shut my mouth and continue to keep banking mad cashola. I get paid either way. It doesn't matter which affiliate makes the sale, I still get paid the same.

But it irks the hell out of me.

And it's stealing from the little guy. And the little guy somehow thinks John is the greatest thing since sliced bread, yet doesn't know that they are having their commissions stolen from their own hero.

Total bull**** it you ask me.

Hence why I now ban John and any affiliates I find stuffing cookies for my affiliate program.

Did I lose out on more sales?

Yes!

Did I stand up for what was right?

You bet your ass I did.

There may be other instances where I would be okay with cookie stuffing. I'm not exactly sure what those instances would be, but I don't think every cookie stuffer is a criminal that should be hung.

But when it's stealing from your own community members it's a big problem.

[Jason Moffatt]

Also, I'm shocked that anyone would be so stupid as to admit doing this stuff on this forum.

You seriously don't think people will rat you out?

I mean blatantly taunting Clickbank to terminate your account? Not wise.

[matthewd]

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

Also, I'm shocked that anyone would be so stupid as to admit doing this stuff on this forum.

You seriously don't think people will rat you out?

I mean blatantly taunting Clickbank to terminate your account? Not wise.

I admitted to it and admitted to my reasoning as well.

It is not blatantly taunting Clickbank, it was proven the other day that this is solving the Clickbank tracking issue and I was bringing that up to people and showing them numbers.

I also admitted to the fact that it would be better to stuff after the click, which is what I am going to try to do once I talk to my tech guy on Monday. I had never thought about this until it was pointed out above.

I understand that I am outnumbered in my thinking and I am open minded, so I definitely think I could be in the wrong if every one sees it differently.

Honestly, before today, or yesterday or whenever this damn thread started, I had never even thought of it affecting other people.

[Jason Moffatt]

Originally Posted by matthewd

Honestly, before today, or yesterday or whenever this damn thread started, I had never even thought of it affecting other people.

At first I didn't think it was a big deal either.

Until I experienced first hand a very nice Warrior get ripped off on my affiliate system.

And while I could of just been like F-it, deep down I knew it wasn't right. And I want my reputation to last decades, not just a short time in the IM scene.

By running my business this way I will gain the trust and respect of honorable and admirable people who will still be around in ten years. And the little guy affiliates will know that I will always do my best to ensure they are getting a fair shot at making money too.

While it may appear to some that I sacrificed tens of thousands of dollars, the truth is I've positioned myself as one of the good guys. Someone who can be trusted to stand up for those who are getting the shaft.

Like I said, there may be some instances where cookie stuffing is not as bad as this particular scenario I described. I'm really not sure and don't know enough about it. However, when it comes to my business, I want all my affiliates to have a fair chance.

[Gail Sober]

I don't see how cookie stuffing can be an actual fix for these cookie setting problems anyway. If there is a problem with cookies being set then it won't/shouldn't matter whether the merchant site is loaded via a faked image or by them clicking your link.

If the server and browser aren't communicating properly, the cookie won't be set regardless of which method you use.

Am I missing something?

How is it possible to load the merchant site via a faked image and set a cookie if the same cookie can not be set by them clicking the link.

[JustVisiting]

Originally Posted by Mike Benkovich

At the end of the day, use your own moral compass and decide if you want to use the technique or not. But you must know that its against the terms of service of the major affiliate networks.

To answer the why use PHP question ... You should use PHP in this technique because its more secretive to the end user, the browser and any software that might try to block it because as far as your browser is concerned you are just viewing an image.

The problem with using an image tag is that its easy to spot, and matthewd that is probably the reason that you got caught since someone only needs to view your page source to know what you're doing.

Exactly! Otherwise the merchant can see you are cookie stuffing! You need to cloak

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

At first I didn't think it was a big deal either.

Until I experienced first hand a very nice Warrior get ripped off on my affiliate system.

And while I could of just been like F-it, deep down I knew it wasn't right. And I want my reputation to last decades, not just a short time in the IM scene.

By running my business this way I will gain the trust and respect of honorable and admirable people who will still be around in ten years. And the little guy affiliates will know that I will always do my best to ensure they are getting a fair shot at making money too.

While it may appear to some that I sacrificed tens of thousands of dollars, the truth is I've positioned myself as one of the good guys. Someone who can be trusted to stand up for those who are getting the shaft.

Like I said, there may be some instances where cookie stuffing is not as bad as this particular scenario I described. I'm really not sure and don't know enough about it. However, when it comes to my business, I want all my affiliates to have a fair chance.

Well Jason, this was the last straw...you really ARE one of the good guys.

Bless you.

You've got a fan for life.

[Dave Patterson]

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

Also, I'm shocked that anyone would be so stupid as to admit doing this stuff on this forum.

You seriously don't think people will rat you out?

I mean blatantly taunting Clickbank to terminate your account? Not wise.

Not to mention the fact they HAVE been known to visit this forum and read the latest threads pertaining to them over the years when they WERE having issues they were working to resolve...

[Wendy Maki]

Hmmm. Interesting debate.

All I can think of is how many times I've landed on a site that I back right out of because it's obviously some kind of spammy cr*p. Now I have a *reason* to be annoyed by those sites. Do I want them to get money because I wasted a quarter of a second of my time on their site? Heck no.

Makes me want to clear my cookies (or maybe toss them??)... I've always kept my cookies on principle because I want credit to go where credit is due...

[GarrieWilson]

HarveyJ,

Oh yeah, because they make more money if the affiliate doesn't have to be paid.

You need a clue.

They, CB, make the SAME. Poor tracking *could* cost them more because of less affiliate promotion.

All this could EASILY be solved by a combination of cookie and sessional tracking.

Session tracking can't be done for FUTURE sales. You would need to use IPs and cookies.

And the PHP method is there so that the stuffing can be controlled. If you really wanted, you could use it as a round robin or tempo method, where every visitor gets something different, or only one in so many get it.

As it is, I think only one in so many get it in here...

Are you accusing Allen of cookie stuffing?

[JazzOscar]

In my opinion it's not that difficult to see what's ethical and what's not in this context.

Let's say ClickBank has a problem that make's you lose money that should really have been yours.

* If you apply some method that reverses the effects of the problem, leaving you with exactly the amount of money that should have been yours initially, not affecting any third party negatively; Ethical.

* If you apply some method that more or less reverses the effects of the problem, leaving you with more or less the amount of money that should have been yours initially, affecting ClickBank or some third party, be it the merchant or another affiliate, negatively; Unethical.

If your method makes you receive even one amount that should have been received by someone else, then the method is a setup for theft.

Easy as that!

[iMerickz]

hi there, as a newbie, i am totally clueless about this cookie thing and now i do know after the information provided by Mike here. thks Mike.

i totally agreed on this as a BLACK HAT method and anyone who does this stuff is by all means indeed "stealing on others commissions".

imagine all those people (or rather newbies in this case, as it is always we newbies who lose out to the more experienced marketeers who does all sort of tricks and stuff) who had beforehand done the hard work of pre-selling or worst spend money on ppc to get the customer to reach their sale pages and make the customer click thru. but if the customer did not buy this time round, then a few days later they decided to buy after hearing some rave reviews about the product on some forums etc and they went to google for the product. they opened up all the top 3 to 5 sites on the 1st page linked to this product but then buy directly from the merchant. but guess what, those people who have got the person who clicked thru never got any credit or sale for the effort they put in, why?
because the commission will always be "hijacked" by the site who managed to rank higher in the searches pages.
now so are we all going to start stuffing cookies to protect our own interests, because the scenario now is not on who is the last person who successfully pre-sold and make the customer clicked thru, but on who can be the last person who make the person viewed or visited their website before they made any purchase and bingo they got themselves a sale!
is this the strategy we are looking at?
so why put a link there for the customer to click if you gonna stuffed a cookie there?
no need any sale copy, no need any pre-selling, no need to have fancy sale page etc..
no need to click, cause if you happens to be the last site they visit before they purchased, you got a sale anyway.
i just hope that clickbank clears up all this mess, and really look into this problem seriously.
and btw, to all newbies, i think we gonna stop paying ppc to drive traffic to affiliate products cause nobody knows if we actually got the sale a not.
the IM industry is really getting tougher and tougher to learn, adapt and make a living (for the newbies of course) ..

[iMerickz]

Originally Posted by L.B

end of the day I know people making 5 figures a week of cookie stuffing...your not going to tell them to stop lol. its pointless arguing about the ethics of it. its the internet people can do what they want and most of the time other people are not going to convince them otherwise

ya sadly tho, i agreed to this statement..

[Clyde Dennis]

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

Also, I'm shocked that anyone would be so stupid as to admit doing this stuff on this forum.

You seriously don't think people will rat you out?

I mean blatantly taunting Clickbank to terminate your account? Not wise.

This was the very first thing that popped into my mind as well. It's like you're begging them to whack you. No?

[Marc Rodill]

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

on a side-note, back to the subject, i have a question:

Doesn't any new cookie overwrite whatever cookie is on the PC?

So...Mr "BlueFart Stuffer" could stuff Joe User with cookies, but when he goes to my site via valid hoplink he gets a new one...and my cookie is the last recent one..therefore its irrelevant whether someone stuffed him?

G.

Originally Posted by matthewd

Yeah, the newest affiliate link overwrites the previous one.

Hey! GUESS WHAT?

If you are stuffing cookies, the newest affiliate link DOES NOT, I repeat DOES NOT, overwrite the previous one!

(UNLESS: They are also stuffing cookies. Very highly unlikely!).

Did you hear me?

I am amazed to see that no one mentioned this, but...

If the "PROSPECT" visits your site, DOES NOT click on your link, visits another affiliate website, DOES click on their link, DOES buy, then you still get the sale if they are not also stuffing cookies.

This has nothing to do with the hypothetical situation where "they visit the merchant site directly" (which is also stealing, by the way. Open your eyes.)

In essence, and there are no other words for it: you ARE stealing, you ARE a thief.

Period.

Before you start on your high horse about how much money you are making from this technique, you should probably learn how it works so that you at least have knowledge about how you are actually stealing another person's commissions.

Originally Posted by matthewd

Thanks man, you too!

It's funny how you ignored this though:

"I can't rationalize "anything" Steven. I can rationalize me losing 52% of my sales b/c of a tracking issue and me taking measures to safeguard that 52%.

Can you not rationalize that?"

52% in sales? Are you kidding me? From 15% before-hand when you weren't using cookies?

That's a massive spike, and not legitimately possible if you are doing the same things you were doing before to generate sales.

You add cookie stuffing and your sales go up 37% and you think you DESERVE them?

You ARE rationalizing. It's nice to have money, we all know.

But, you're a joke.

DO ME A FAVOR, track your links to see how many times they are clicked VS. how many sales you receive, and you will notice a HUGE discrepancy.

Go ahead. JUST DO IT. Do whatever it takes to set it up and post your results (or not, save face, and just stop cookie stuffing damn it).

Originally Posted by terryd

Criminals always try to rationalize or justify what they do also...........

This is the bottom-line.

Now, in your defense mathewd, you may not have known you are STEALING COMMISSIONS right from under other people.

I recommend you stop, apologize, and rectify this situation, because I can guarantee you that you have lost all credibility with anyone who has read this post.

Yes, I know what cookie stuffing is. No, I do not, nor ever will, condone the practice.

It is theft. Your opinion, point-of-view, and agreeing to disagree does not change this fact.

Pissed off,

Marc

[iMerickz]

Originally Posted by Marc Rodill

Hey! GUESS WHAT?

If you are stuffing cookies, the newest affiliate link DOES NOT, I repeat DOES NOT, overwrite the previous one!

(UNLESS: They are also stuffing cookies. Very highly unlikely!).

Did you hear me?

I am amazed to see that no one mentioned this, but...

If the "PROSPECT" visits your site, DOES NOT click on your link, visits another affiliate website, DOES click on their link, DOES buy, then you still get the sale if they are not also stuffing cookies.

This has nothing to do with the hypothetical situation where "they visit the merchant site directly" (which is also stealing, by the way. Open your eyes.)

In essence, and there are no other words for it: you ARE stealing, you ARE a thief.

Period.

Before you start on your high horse about how much money you are making from this technique, you should probably learn how it works so that you at least have knowledge about how you are actually stealing another person's commissions.



52% in sales? Are you kidding me? From 15% before-hand when you weren't using cookies?

That's a massive spike, and not legitimately possible if you are doing the same things you were doing before to generate sales.

You add cookie stuffing and your sales go up 37% and you think you DESERVE them?

You ARE rationalizing. It's nice to have money, we all know.

But, you're a joke.

DO ME A FAVOR, track your links to see how many times they are clicked VS. how many sales you receive, and you will notice a HUGE discrepancy.

Go ahead. JUST DO IT. Do whatever it takes to set it up and post your results (or not, save face, and just stop cookie stuffing damn it).



This is the bottom-line.

Now, in your defense mathewd, you may not have known you are STEALING COMMISSIONS right from under other people.

I recommend you stop, apologize, and rectify this situation, because I can guarantee you that you have lost all credibility with anyone who has read this post.

Yes, I know what cookie stuffing is. No, I do not, nor ever will, condone the practice.

It is theft. Your opinion, point-of-view, and agreeing to disagree does not change this fact.

Pissed off,

Marc

OMG! is it true on this statement?
" If you are stuffing cookies, the newest affiliate link DOES NOT, I repeat DOES NOT, overwrite the previous one! "
so now the site need not be the last to stuff cookies in order for him to get commission. as long as the customer doesn't clear his cookies, and assuming he doesn't go to another site which is also cookie stuffing, any site who cookie stuffed get the money regardless where the customer clicked on!
now i know why i was always told to clear my cookies whenever i purchased some IM products from the gurus. coz they know that if the customer doesn't clear his cookies, they will never get any sale, be it that they are the last site the customer visit and click on.
this is a shame, man! so now how do we stop all these cookie stuffing thing.
how on earth can we believe in this ****ty tracking system?

no wonder there are some "gurus" out there who are always earning the big bucks...

[GarrieWilson]

iMericks,

It's not true. The stuffed cookie will be overwriten IF someone clicks a hoplink. CB isnt a first cookie affiliate program.

[Eric Lorence]

Originally Posted by sarahstaar

I have always used the code below for my adwords programs
<IMG height=1 src="http://xxx.forexbro.hop.clickbank.net/?tid=xxx"
width=1>

However when i put this code on some sites that had quite good traffic from Google i noticed after about two weeks my traffic dried up and my Google Ranking dropped off.

This has happened to 3 of my sites... Should i be using PHP ?????

Well, that is stuffing right there.

The same as

<frame>height=1 width=1 src="http://xxx.forexbro.hop.clickbank.net/?tid=xxx"</frame>

Or any one of a dozen other methods.

They have been talking about how it is stealing, and not how to perfect the method.

As far as Google is concerned, they sometimes have problems with hidden objects such as what you described, or hidden text.

Though I cant speak for anything else that may have hurt your rank.

Just to clear up any confusion...

If you are stuffing cookies, the newest affiliate link DOES NOT, I repeat DOES NOT, overwrite the previous one!

This applies to affiliates whom prefer to link directly to the CB payment page, using their own copy, and bypassing the publishers pitch page.

Some marketers believe they are insuring their commission by stuffing in those cases, because the direct CB payment page tracking is subordinate to standard hop link cookie.

[australianrealestate]

Hmmm, all very interesting. Some say stuffing is always wrong and that's the end of the story ...and others that it depends on the intent.

Could not the entire problem be wiped out from both sides of the fence if clickbank introduced another system to both recognise and reward a referrer?

So let me change the tack of this thread if I may.

What doable system could clickbank institute to credit an affiliate sale that did not involve cookies at all?

I'll be interested not only in your creativity in suggesting a system but also in how (the proposer or other forum members) can demonstrate how the new system might also be gamed....i.e the potential flaws.

Over to you chaps....

[madison_avenue]

One way to combat cookie stuffing is to offer a bonus if someone buys through your link. Also ask the buyer to clear his cookies before purchasing. You may even get the added benefit of another name on your list!

[MichaelPaul]

Wow Interesting thread. I knew people loose affiliate commissions due to cookies, but what I did not know was you could use a method called cookie stuffing... I had never came across that before. Cool I just learned something...

[Jon Alexander]

Originally Posted by Mike Benkovich

Hey Warriors,

What I'm about to share is extremely black hat.

Lots of talk about cookie stuffing lately and it seems that many people don't know what it actually is. I thought i'd try and explain it and hopefully that might help some people understand why cookie stuffing is not the reason clickbank is screwing up.

- Say I have a 1 page review site for 'Strip the Fat' that pulls in 100 unique visitors per day
- 10 of those people click on my affiliate link
- 1 of those people buy, good for one sale a day
- Lets say 1 other person reads my review, and then goes DIRECTLY to the sales page without clicking my links. I wont get cash for the sale

Now, wouldn't it be nice if we got commissions for everyone who visited our website if they purchased. Whether or not they clicked on our affiliate links? You bet your butt it would (despite being against every major affiliate companies TOS). This is where cookie stuffing comes in.

- Inside my page I place a 1pixel image. Something like '/images/thisisa1pixelimage.jpg'
- The thing is, this image isnt actually an image. *SHOCK*
- The trick is, I have secretly told my server that this is a PHP script. So instead of displaying the image, it parses the file and tries to execute it.
- Inside the image/php script I redirect to my affiliate link which drops the affiliate cookie on a users computer.
- So now, EVERY SINGLE PERSON who visits my page gets the affiliate cookie on their machine, whether or not they click my link.
- Beyond that, you could post that image anywhere on the entire web and anyone who views it will get a cookie dropped on them. Which is why you should never allow images to be loaded from other sites in your forums.

That's cookie stuffing at its very finest. There are countless ways to use this technique, almost all of them black hat. For example, have you ever noticed that once you open up one spam email, the next week you get 50 of them? The spammer has dropped a 1pixel image into your email, so by opening up the file you are verifying your existence because the 1pixel image runs a php script that says 'hey, the guy at hello@hotmail.com just opened me'.

So think about it, if cookie stuffing was the culprit then you wouldn't be seeing affiliate = none . You'd be seeing affiliate = spammer the whole time.

Anyway, just like Uncle Ben says to Peter Parker 'with great power comes great responsibility'. Don't use this for evil

cookie stuffing WILL get you dropped by the networks, no matter how hard you try to cloak it.

here's why.

Your account ends up with a massive impression rate, and a terrible click thru rate.

That's an easy collar for the affiliate managers on the nets, and they love to ban people like you. They even have little competitions, to see who can catch the most 'badasses'.

[Louis Raven]

Hey guys is there a legitimate way to "stuff" the cookie?

What about loading the affiliate link as an exit pop-up? Visitor.A comes to my site and exits.. from there the affiliate page pops up.

Is this also considered "stuffing"?

Also, if visitor.A comes to my review page and reads a review that makes him want to buy but DOESN'T click and goes direct to the site, I believe in all fairness and honesty I should be awarded the commission as it's my review seen last.

Louis

[vikiz]

Hi Mike ... the method you was described is very interesting. Can you explain the steps in detail. I hope you understand because I'm newbie and don't know about website....Thanks

[Jullian]

I think id like to learn how to do this lol

[CraigJones]

Thanks for the information about how cookie stuffing works.

[MarioSotojr]

This is an interesting information thanks

[zeurois]

FALSE

The email providers are baning that for years already. For instance, did you notice yahoo asks you if you want to see the images inside an email before displaying them? Same for outlook express.

This works only for websites and not emails and it works in a various ways, including img, script, iframe, or anything that can pull an external resource.

Originally Posted by Mike Benkovich

That's cookie stuffing at its very finest. There are countless ways to use this technique, almost all of them black hat. For example, have you ever noticed that once you open up one spam email, the next week you get 50 of them? The spammer has dropped a 1pixel image into your email, so by opening up the file you are verifying your existence because the 1pixel image runs a php script that says 'hey, the guy at hello@hotmail.com just opened me'.

[Samuel Lee]

Thanks for the detailed post, its seem to be a common way for others to hijack your affiliate links these days. Affiliate link prevention is becoming more secure and more cautious, and it makes you glad you're a member of the warrior forum at times like this! Many thanks for your post, will double check my affiliate links asap!

[IM Headlines]

Short Explanation of Cookie Stuffing:

Getting a commision from buyers that have not actually clicked your affiliate link.

I suggest that you stay away from cookie stuffing unless you really are an expert in BlueFart techniques.