single vs double optin conversion?

by willoh
70 replies
I was wondering if there are many people using single optin or most use double? Allegedly the conversion rate is better.
I am about to set up an optin box and I would apreciate your suggestion.
#conversion #double #optin #single
  • Profile picture of the author Zabrina
    Go for double. No worries about accusations of spamming, and those who opt in are actually going to be doubly interested in your list and what you're saying. If people can't bother to click a link to confirm, they won't click a link to buy.
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    • Originally Posted by Zabrina View Post

      Go for double. No worries about accusations of spamming, and those who opt in are actually going to be doubly interested in your list and what you're saying. If people can't bother to click a link to confirm, they won't click a link to buy.
      That assumption right there can potentially kill your conversions, careful there. What if they opted in their lunch break? what if they don't understand the whole "confirm to receive stuff" thing? what if they'd rather see your stuff before committing to signing up? What if they might not be interested in this product but on the next one you'd email them for in the future?

      There are PLENTY of reasons as of why a potential buyer could not confirm his subscription...
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  • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
    I prefer double myself - for exactly the reasons that Zabrina mentioned.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
    Banned
    I can see this going off into a long debate. I'll save everyone the trouble by debunking a common myth here and now;

    Your conversion rate has almost NOTHING to do with whether you use single or double opt-in. The ONLY thing that really matters is your offer.

    Take Paul Myers "Need to Know" site. He uses double opt-in, and he has a conversion rate of 50% (people who confirm their opt-ins). I know of people who use single opt-in who's conversion rate isn't half as good. That's because their offer is mediocre in comparison.

    It is true that you will lose some opt-ins if you use double opt-in. However, with double opt in, you have guaranteed protection from fraudulent spam complaints. Plus, it's recommended by Aweber, GetResponse, and most other autoresponder companies. They wouldn't "strongly" recommend double opt-in unless there was a good reason for it.

    Go with whatever you like the most. Just remember, it's your OFFER that counts, NOT whether you use single or double opt in.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    My friend, you will not find a satisfactory answer to your question since there are many extraneous variables which can effect the opt-in rate, the confirm sub rate, as well as the profitability of a list.

    Great cases can be made for both sides, myself personally, it is niche dependent. Example being how to cook cabbage, wouldn't really need double opt-in for that, but if the list was about IM, then MOST DEFINATELY i would use double opt-in.

    As far as which is more profitable, I doubt anybody here has done any kind of statistically significant enough testing to come up with any kind of definitive answer.


    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author syedasim786
    Double opt-in is usually the recommended or preferred option to go with. If you use single opt in sure you may end up getting more people in your list, however if you use double opt in, they will have you on their white list, and usually from my testing, they turned out to be more responsive.

    once again its like what Chris said, it really depends on the market. My suggestion would be to go with double optin, it's the safest option.
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  • Profile picture of the author willoh
    Thanks, I guess it really depends on the product so I decided to split test both optin methods somehow. Any tools for that?
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    • Profile picture of the author emmedi
      I always do single optin.

      It's not true that double optin isn't affecting your conversion rate for leads. There can be many reasons why people don't confirm. The more complicated you make it the less people you get.

      And I disagree that with double optin you get better quality leads and less spam accusations.

      The quality of leads has nothing to do with the fact they confirm (they confirm because you tell them to do that, even if some forget or are unable to), it has to do with the media you use for lead generation and the offer you make.

      And as for spam accusation, when someone thinks that, maybe after 10 months, you are spamming, he will do it with single, double, triple or even tattoo optin. They just forget or aren't interested anymore. If they cannot unsubscribe, you do that for them, no sweat.

      So for me the recommendation it's SINGLE optin.

      Best,

      Marco
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      • Profile picture of the author wordwizard
        I strongly prefer single opt-in too (and several of my mentors recommend it too).

        I've had a ton of trouble when I used double opt-in Aweber with a Warrior Plus deal and some people absolutely wouldn't confirm -- so I ended up having to send them their subscription stuff by hand each week, each time with a plea to PLEASE confirm.

        What a royal pain...

        I'm wondering if anyone else has that problem too?

        Elisabeth
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        • Profile picture of the author Greg D
          Originally Posted by wordwizard View Post

          I strongly prefer single opt-in too (and several of my mentors recommend it too).

          I've had a ton of trouble when I used double opt-in Aweber with a Warrior Plus deal and some people absolutely wouldn't confirm -- so I ended up having to send them their subscription stuff by hand each week, each time with a plea to PLEASE confirm.

          What a royal pain...

          I'm wondering if anyone else has that problem too?

          Elisabeth
          This I do not understand. If you set up the boundaries of your product and service to be based on email delivery through a confirmation process, then why did you allow those people to NOT confirm?

          I am assuming it was to not lose the sale or the additional email on your list.

          Is it worth it? I am assuming if enough time has went by, it might not be. I could be wrong, I am aware that I am not privy to your entire situation.

          Until I get that 'BIG' I am sticking with double-opt in. I cannot afford to have my account shut down because someone 'forgets' they subscribed and are too lazy or stupid to hit the 'unsubscribe' button and instead report me as spamming.

          Greg
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  • Profile picture of the author Paleruby
    From a consumer stand point I hate double optins, of course I'm weak and can usually be sold before I leave the site if your pitch is good enough
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  • Profile picture of the author rondo
    I'm using Aweber's smart video confirmation message and more than 9/10 people confirm.

    Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    I use both. depends on the offer. If its something like software or something then I use double (to avoid fake emails), I use single opt in on my 7 day courses though.

    So just find what your comfortable with and matches your offer and niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aiarashi
    I think that the people who are genuinely interested in your offer won't mind the double opt-in, and the contrary is aslo true: I don't think uninterested people or freebie seekers will even bother confirming their opt in.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Henshaw
      I've had a ton of trouble when I used double opt-in Aweber with a Warrior Plus deal and some people absolutely wouldn't confirm -- so I ended up having to send them their subscription stuff by hand each week, each time with a plea to PLEASE confirm.
      I'm not sure that confirmed (double) opt in is the better option in that sort of situation. After all, if someone has paid for a product, service or subscription, then they are entitled to receive it, without jumping through hoops - even if the only hoop is a confirmation requirement, before they get it.

      Personally, I use confirmed (double) opt in for the IM and closely related niches, as it affords some protection from spurious spam complaints. For the non IM niches though, as spam complaints are less, single opt in should usually be the option, as confirmed opt in could reduce sign ups.

      Of course, if you are a big player in the IM niche with your own isp, servers, as well as plenty of cash and lawyers on retainer, then single opt in is definately the way to go!

      Just my thoughts,

      Jeff.
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      • Profile picture of the author secrets2010
        Originally Posted by Jeff Henshaw View Post

        I'm not sure that confirmed (double) opt in is the better option in that sort of situation. After all, if someone has paid for a product, service or subscription, then they are entitled to receive it, without jumping through hoops - even if the only hoop is a confirmation requirement, before they get it.

        Personally, I use confirmed (double) opt in for the IM and closely related niches, as it affords some protection from spurious spam complaints. For the non IM niches though, as spam complaints are less, single opt in should usually be the option, as confirmed opt in could reduce sign ups.

        Of course, if you are a big player in the IM niche with your own isp, servers, as well as plenty of cash and lawyers on retainer, then single opt in is definately the way to go!

        Just my thoughts,

        Jeff.

        Hi, you mean with "as well as plenty of cash and lawyers on retainer" that it's not legal to use single? you mean that single can get you into legal trouble?
        just asking....

        I also thought that laws required to use double optin..but not sure...hope kindsvater sees this thread...
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        • Profile picture of the author rts2271
          We have extensively tested single v double in several niches. What we found across the board was...

          Double opt-in conversion is drastically lower.
          Double opt-in leads tend to complain more.
          Double opt-in leads unsubscribe quicker.
          Double opt-in leads have lower sales conversion.
          Double opt-in leads cost more.

          I don't think you will find a single marketing guru using double opt-in

          By the way. Single opt-in, lead forwarding and coreg are all legal and allowed with CAN-SPAM.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by rts2271 View Post

            I don't think you will find a single marketing guru using double opt-in
            Well, my current lists are 5-to-3 in favour of single opt-in, and I admit that the more experienced I get, the more I find myself inclining toward single opt-in, in cases of doubt, but I'm also very surprised to see it expressed quite as strongly as this.
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            • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
              Personally, I prefer double opt in so that I know I am getting a good deliverable email address.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bo Mill
    I had a list of about 1500 subscribers with single opt-in.

    And I had a list of about 500 subscribers with double opt-in.

    Even though there are three times less subscribers in the latter, they converted 900% better than the former.
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  • Profile picture of the author psynaut
    Use double opt-in when you can ... it really does create a much better list. But, is some niches, it's very hard to get people to double opt-in. You really have to try it out and see which one works better for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author alexalbert123
    I specially refer single opt-in.
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  • Profile picture of the author arsenal123
    there is no easy answer to the single versus double opt--in issue. You need to weigh the pros and cons of each method, perform tests on each method and then select the method that is right for your business.It's possible that you could wind up with a hybrid solution. In other words, use the single opt--in method for your directly controlled programs like mini-courses and your newsletter and use the double opt--in approach for your co-registration programs.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Earlier in the thread, Joshua mentioned that the offer itself was an important factor.

      I believe that how you ask for the confirmation has something to do with confirmations. I try to never mention 'spam' in my confirmation requests; I don't want the thought entering their heads.

      Instead, I try to position the process as a favor to them. After all, people mis-type their emails from time to time, right?

      So I ask them to do me a favor and click the link in the automated email the system sends out, just to verify that the email got through to the right place.
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    I prefer single opt-in.

    Used to use double opt-in until I found out I had lost thousands subscribers to not confirming one year.

    So I went single from that point on. It's been almost 2 years now.
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  • Profile picture of the author tribros
    Different people have different opinions but you should test and decide yourself.

    For me, I use both of them. It depends on your offer and also differs from niches to niches.

    Read what "Coby" said above.
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    • Profile picture of the author emmedi
      I keep thinking that double optin isn't a strategy to preselect better leads.
      It depends on the market and on the offer. If you do loose lead generation with high value incentives you will get more double optins but it won't mean you will get better leads.

      For serious spam complaints double is a better (legal) protection but for the average complainer, it makes no difference: is someone does an optin and them complains you are spamming, it can be single or double, but he still thinks you're spamming him.
      Only if you remind him he did the double optin he can feel more like a moron... is that good?

      Best,

      Marco
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by emmedi View Post

        If you do loose lead generation with high value incentives you will get more double optins but it won't mean you will get better leads.
        I hear you; I hear you ... the problem is that this is always subjective and not readily susceptible to easy proof.

        The argument is often advanced that if people won't click to confirm, they won't later click to buy anything anyway. I'm far from convinced by this reasoning, myself. I have lists for which some of the people are "close-to-unable" to confirm (they have no idea what a "spam folder" is, or anything like that), but some of them will still buy.

        I have 3 confirmed opt-in lists and 5 single opt-in (I judge it according to my perception of the niche and the customers and where most of them will be coming from), and I'm really quite unsure of quite a lot of things about this subject which people state as if they were "simply factual".

        I do strongly suspect that all my single opt-in lists would be producing less income for me if they'd been confirmed opt-in; but I can't prove it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
          Regardless of whether you choose to use single or
          double opt-in, you'll still get spam complaints.

          Human nature is such that people forget they subscribed
          and may complain or hit the spam button - regardless
          of whether they originally confirmed or not.

          However, the key is what happens in the long-term...

          With single opt-in, you cannot prove that the person
          using the e-mail address subscribed. If too many people
          complain you can have your autoresponder account
          closed if you're using a strict third-party provider.

          At least with double opt-in you have an audit path
          that you can show to anyone to prove that the person
          did subscribe and when they confirmed their subscription.

          Plus, remember that single opt-in subscriber e-mails are
          usually sent from inferior servers that have a poorer
          reputation and lower deliverability rates (because of more
          complaints, bounces, etc).

          For most of my lists I use double (confirmed) opt-in
          because I sleep better at night knowing that my lists
          will be protected long-term.

          Your lists are one of the most valuable assets in your
          business so it's vital that you take measures to make
          sure that they are protected and last well into the future.

          Dedicated to your success,

          Shaun
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            This may be a bit tangential but, if you ever need it, you'll be glad you did it...

            Back up your subscriber lists regularly.

            If something suddenly goes toes-up and you have to start over with another provider, you have something to start over with. Yes, the service may require you to confirm the list again. Yes, you may lose half the list in the process.

            But I would rather start over with half of my original list than start from scratch...
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  • Profile picture of the author john17
    I'd recommend to go Single Optin.
    If you do go with double make sure you redirect people to what you promised them for the optin.
    I absolutely hate it when I opt in to get something and am directed to the page that says "Wait - go confirm your subscription before you get access..."

    Just a waste of everyones time.

    @Shaun say's it nicely though. I don't know of anyone that will let you import a list of single optins, so if you do single optins you should be happy with your current list management system.
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  • Profile picture of the author fated82
    I do it both ways. When someone first opt-in, he will be asked to confirmed. But if he doesn't, then I have the option to add him into 'subscribe' until he 'unsubscribe' himself. I prefer single opt-in though.
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  • Profile picture of the author wfhblueprints
    I personally go double optin........

    Now don't quote me on this one but single optin followups and broadcasts are 75% more likely to end up in the users spam box than double optin ones.......

    I'll try and dig up the report where I read this!

    Regards

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike German
    A great way to make the double opt-in more user friendly is to display a web page of you thanking the visitor for signing up in the form of a video.

    This is my confirm page Super Video Squeeze Pages - Confirm

    I'm a web designer so this is fairly straight forward to me, but well worth the time to cut down on un-confirmed emails in AWeber.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tyrus Antas
    ISP's hate single opt-in.

    Do the right thing. Long term, you always win.

    Tyrus
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack Duncan
    willoh,
    This is a good question...and the correct answer is: TEST IT

    Create 2 lists with your provider, and rotate the opt-in code 50/50.

    It won't take very long for you to have actual "proof" of which one is better for your setup.

    There are too many factors to say for sure.

    For instance, if you are with Infusionsoft, they will send the single opt-ins from different servers than the double opt-ins...and the delivery rate varies widely at times because of this.

    Other providers may also have other policies that affect one over the other. (I know MailChimp does...)

    So...the easiest way to know for sure is to simply test it.

    Everyone will have their opinion on which is better. I know Dell.com uses single opt-in...but there are other large companies that use double opt-in. It's really hard to say for sure...and it depends on so many different things.

    So, 50/50, rotate the code, and after a very short time you will be able to actually attach a real metric to them and know which one is better. (Just make sure that is the only difference between the two lists.)

    Hope this helps,
    Jack Duncan
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  • Profile picture of the author Dean Slayton
    Here's how I handle this:

    I use a php rotate script to rotate the aweber listname field, and the redirect field.

    So I can select what ratio I want. I usually go 60-70% single optin, 40-30% double.

    Ofcourse if your traffic source something shadey or quality isn't decent, i'd go full double opt.

    Hope this helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author secrets2010
      also, on the same aweber site:

      Can I Disable Confirmed Opt-In? :: AWeber Knowledge Base

      you can read

      "A recent study by MarketingSherpa and KnowledgeStorm found that only 68% of users always enter a valid email address.

      So, nearly a third of respondents knowingly enter bogus email addresses"

      That would mean that if we use single we would be spamming 32% of users...

      If one of those users makes a spam complaint what would happen ?
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by secrets2010 View Post

        "A recent study by MarketingSherpa and KnowledgeStorm found that only 68% of users always enter a valid email address.

        So, nearly a third of respondents knowingly enter bogus email addresses"

        That would mean that if we use single we would be spamming 32% of users...
        Sorry to be argumentative, but it really doesn't mean that at all. It would mean that only if the 68% were a universal statistic equally applicable to all marketers and all lists. And it just isn't.

        It's simply not true that only 68% of housewives opting into a cauliflower soup recipes site for the free "recipe of the month" enter a valid email address. And that, ridiculous example though it may seem, is actually the point, and part of the reason why sometimes single opt-in is going to be more appropriate than confirmed opt-in.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Foster
    " Double opt-in is only for those who DON'T want to make money" - Eben Pagan
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Originally Posted by James Foster View Post

      " Double opt-in is only for those who DON'T want to make money" - Eben Pagan
      That quote is frankly bullsh!t.

      Test to discover the opt-in method that gives you the highest
      conversions for just now. But remember that testing won't let
      you know the best option for the long-term.

      There are times to use single opt-in and there are times
      to use double opt-in.

      It depends upon the specific situation and there's no one
      rule that fits all.

      Remember that single opt-in e-mails get sent from different
      servers with a lower deliverability than the servers used for
      double opt-in e-mails.

      However, for a stable business that lasts long-term, I choose
      confirmed opt-in for many of my lists (not all).

      Why?

      My lists are some of the biggest assets in my business and I
      want to have a full audit path for those subscribers so I can
      defend myself against spam complaints, etc.

      That way I make money today and well into the future too.

      Asset protection.

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Originally Posted by James Foster View Post

      " Double opt-in is only for those who DON'T want to make money" - Eben Pagan
      Does Eben Pagan know what he's talking about when it comes
      to autoresponders?

      Sure.

      But his comments have to be taken within context.

      I know plenty of people who use double opt-in and make good
      money.

      Here are 3 specific reasons why this quote is dangerous if taken
      as gospel and used without questioning it first...

      1. Eben Pagan uses mainly self-hosted autoresponders to run
      his businesses so he's not at the mercy of third-party
      autoresponder service providers who can - and have - shut
      down single opt-in lists and accounts for excessive spam
      complaints.

      So, for someone using AWeber to host their autoresponders
      for example, they could blindly follow the 'single opt-in makes
      more money' mantra and end up getting their account forced
      into using double opt-in - or worse - terminated if they get
      excessive spam complaints.

      2. The fact is that single and double opt-in e-mails are sent
      from different servers with different deliverability rates. The
      single opt-in servers have lower deliverability rates because
      they have more bounces, spam complaints and a poorer
      reputation with ISPs.

      So, without testing and tracking it's hard to know which is
      the best option for a given list and third-party autoresponder
      provider combination.

      3. Absolutes rarely apply in business or life. So the 'use single
      opt-in only' or the 'use double opt-in only' mantras are not
      really useful across the board.

      The best choice depends upon the specific situation.

      For example, you may want to use single opt-in for lists built via
      PPC to make the metrics work out.

      Ultimately, the only way to know if single or double opt-in is best
      for your particular list is to TEST IT and count the results.

      And the test results from one person - even a 'guru' - cannot be
      spread around as the gospel for your list and your market.

      TESTING is the only answer to find the best option for you.

      Period.

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
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      • Profile picture of the author Vladutz
        Should customers have to confirm tho?

        If later on a customer hits the spam button to one of your emails surely you can prove that its all legit because their your customer, right?

        Still battling this question.
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      • Profile picture of the author ChrisKahler
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        Does Eben Pagan know what he's talking about when it comes
        to autoresponders?

        Sure.

        But his comments have to be taken within context.

        I know plenty of people who use double opt-in and make good
        money.

        Here are 3 specific reasons why this quote is dangerous if taken
        as gospel and used without questioning it first...

        1. Eben Pagan uses mainly self-hosted autoresponders to run
        his businesses so he's not at the mercy of third-party
        autoresponder service providers who can - and have - shut
        down single opt-in lists and accounts for excessive spam
        complaints.

        So, for someone using AWeber to host their autoresponders
        for example, they could blindly follow the 'single opt-in makes
        more money' mantra and end up getting their account forced
        into using double opt-in - or worse - terminated if they get
        excessive spam complaints.

        2. The fact is that single and double opt-in e-mails are sent
        from different servers with different deliverability rates. The
        single opt-in servers have lower deliverability rates because
        they have more bounces, spam complaints and a poorer
        reputation with ISPs.

        So, without testing and tracking it's hard to know which is
        the best option for a given list and third-party autoresponder
        provider combination.

        3. Absolutes rarely apply in business or life. So the 'use single
        opt-in only' or the 'use double opt-in only' mantras are not
        really useful across the board.

        The best choice depends upon the specific situation.

        For example, you may want to use single opt-in for lists built via
        PPC to make the metrics work out.

        Ultimately, the only way to know if single or double opt-in is best
        for your particular list is to TEST IT and count the results.

        And the test results from one person - even a 'guru' - cannot be
        spread around as the gospel for your list and your market.

        TESTING is the only answer to find the best option for you.

        Period.

        Dedicated to your success,

        Shaun
        Good information! Thanks for this. You are right, it does depend on the situation, I need to keep that in mind
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by James Foster View Post

      " Double opt-in is only for those who DON'T want to make money" - Eben Pagan
      I didn't know Eben had this strong of an opinion about double opt-in...lol! I've used single opt-in exclusively myself, and have never run into any issues. While I'm sure some people will want to see verifiable split-test results that support this statement, I'm pretty confident in my opinion that single opt-ins will ultimately be more profitable.

      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    It's important to differentiate between the two issues here.

    1. Management of spam accusations.

    2. Sale conversions.

    They're separate and almost unrelated but often lumped together when choosing single or double.

    My choice (for what it's worth)?

    Single.

    Neil
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  • Profile picture of the author willoh
    Wow! I really appreciate all the feedback!

    Update:
    So it's been almost three weeks now and I settled on single opt in with aWeber and I am getting a 25% conversion on uniques using a lightbox and a 2-3% conversion rate on the inline form. I started with double opt in but noticed that some people don't confirm the email so I dropped it.

    But the real reason is that I just started my list so I went for quantity instead of quality just to increase my "accomplishment" stats and boost my ego
    Thanks again for your advice!
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisKahler
    I prefer single opt in. There are a number of reasons why single can overall make you more money quicker AND in the long run. Personally, I prefer opting into single opt ins myself, I hate having to go back and click a link that I have already decided to join in on.

    I don't think having to confirm will either remind the person they were really interested OR increase their commitment to stay. The way you increase their commitment to stay is instant gratification with VALUABLE information, and then follow up directly with them. In the follow up make sure to introduce who you are (in case they forgot) and then link back to the squeeze page to remind them where they opted in. If they didn't or do not wish to continue they will opt out, but the percentage of people doing that is FAR less than the percentage who may NEVER confirm with double opt in to begin with.

    I also know that sometimes when I go to confirm, I get caught up in other emails. A highly successful campaign should maintain the prospects current state of mind as far through the "click journey" as possible. Every single opt in form should in some way or other have a specified click journey through calls to action until a sale can be made somewhere. That is called the "no leakage" rule. You want every potential piece of traffic to be potential money, right? It's all about increasing the bottom line, and honestly double opt in doesn't do it quite as well as single opt in can.

    NOW I will say this, if you do not set up a PERFECT campaign around single opt in, you may get more "spam" complaints, but if you know what you're doing for the most part you will be good to go, have a huge list that will be responsively waiting for every one of your future emails. The true part of decreasing spam complaints isn't with the opt in, it's in the follow up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vladutz
    Great info indeed...

    But let's say you made a sale and added the customer to a customer list without optin. If that customer later files a spam complaint, can you use the fact that they purchased of you as proof anti the spam complaint?

    Cheers
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by vladmm View Post

      Great info indeed...

      But let's say you made a sale and added the customer to a customer list without optin. If that customer later files a spam complaint, can you use the fact that they purchased of you as proof anti the spam complaint?

      Cheers
      You can try. How successful such a defense is may depend on the nature of the email generating the spam complaint.

      If you are contacting the customer about an updated version of the purchased product, a new bonus for purchasing, etc. - something directly related to the purchase/product - you may be okay.

      If you hit them up with a sales offer for something different, without their explicit permission to contact via email, you just spammed them and you're at the mercy of the service provider.

      That's how I see it, anyway...
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  • Profile picture of the author Vladutz
    Thanx for your responce JohnMcCabe...
    If we informed them that as a customer they will receive helpful content and special offers and rcommendations this make our case stronger.
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  • Profile picture of the author pizzatherapy
    I do double opt-in for all of my lists. After reading some of the comments here, I may start using single opt-in for certain niches.

    I am always amazed at the number of spam complaints I have gotten from one niche list, even with double opt-in. This is even when I am just sharing information and not trying to pitch something. It seems to be niche spicific, though

    Very informative post and has me re-thinking double vs. single. Thanks everyone.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by pizzatherapy View Post

      I do double opt-in for all of my lists. After reading some of the comments here, I may start using single opt-in for certain niches.

      I am always amazed at the number of spam complaints I have gotten from one niche list, even with double opt-in. This is even when I am just sharing information and not trying to pitch something. It seems to be niche spicific, though

      Very informative post and has me re-thinking double vs. single. Thanks everyone.
      Albert, your name here (pizzatherapy) is making me hungry for Hawaiian pizza with extra Canadian bacon...lol!

      The only comfort for people who use double opt-in is that they are better protected against the inevitable spam complaints that they'll receive.

      It's interesting that you state this spam complaint issue could be niche specific. Would you be able to share which niche(s) are getting you the highest number of spam complaints?

      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Vladutz
    Hey pizzatherapy,

    What niche are you reffering to?

    thanx
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  • Profile picture of the author pizzatherapy
    paulie888 and vladmm:

    Sure, I'm more than happy to share which niche.

    I have list of 5,000 in the "make pizza niche."

    Once they are on my list they are in an autoresponder series which offers them tips and tricks to make pizza.

    Each one of my emails has links to my pizza products (ebooks, audios, cooking how-to). The series goes out every 5-7 days.

    Occasionally once or twice a month, I will do a broadcast newsletter, that may talk about specials or my e-zine Pizza News.

    While the spam compaints are low (.24%- .14%), it still gets flagged by my aweber account. These complainers are removed from my list.

    The funny thing is each subscriber is totally double opt-in.

    I hope that answers your question.

    pizza on earth,

    Albert Grande
    The Pizza Promoter
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    • Profile picture of the author pizzatherapy
      I want to add this:

      I get almost zero complaints from subscribers on my IM niche, or my other email lists.

      I think people who signed up for my pizza list, forgot that they signed up. Also rather than unsubscribe, they will report my email as spam, even though, they double opted in.

      I think that IM'ers are savvy enough to know they can easily unsubscribe from a list with one click...

      Maybe I need to educate my list on how to unsubscribe...
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by pizzatherapy View Post

        Maybe I need to educate my list on how to unsubscribe...
        I must say, I do this quite often, Albert - usually at the very start of the email.

        The thread's 6 months old (that's not a complaint!) and I've very slightly re-thought my position since my original reply above. With hindsight and a little more experience now, I wish I had 7 single opt-in lists and one confirmed opt-in, rather than my actual 5 single opt-in and 3 confirmed.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vladutz
    Why is that Alexa? Has something bad happened!

    And

    Albert Whats your fav. pizza?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by vladmm View Post

      Why is that Alexa? Has something bad happened!
      No - never ... I just like using single opt-in but had heard you can get spam complaints, so I'm very cautious (perhaps too cautious, but one never knows this!). So I err on the side of reminding people why they're getting my emails and that they can unsubscribe, etc. - not in every email, but now and again.

      Originally Posted by vladmm View Post

      Albert Whats your fav. pizza?
      I'd also like to know this ...
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      • Profile picture of the author Vladutz
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        heard you can get spam complaints, so I'm very cautious (perhaps too cautious, but one never knows this!).
        I know what you mean...I worry about those darn spam complaints abit too much aswell. I suppose though that if we send out tonnes of valuable content and really help people in such a way that they remember us very well, then the likely hood of them hitting the spam button is quite low.

        I never undetstood why spammers and hackers and anyone like that, spend their time destroying things and annoying people...when that same time could be spent building and helping people. They may think their smart be clearly they have no logic.

        Hey Pizzatherapy I'm glad to see you like proper pizzas (thin crust) - their the best ;0)
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  • Profile picture of the author pizzatherapy
    Listen...don't even get me started talking about pizza...

    Honestly this changes all the time....as there is a lot of great pizza out there!

    My favorite style of pizza is a Neapolitan thin crust pizza.

    For what I make: An Atilla which has arugala, gorgonzola cheese, mozzarella and pistachios.

    For what I buy: a Frank Pepe's (New Haven, Connecticut), fresh clam pizza...I dream about this...and I will be in Connecticut soon....

    If you are ever on the East Coast..go to Pepe's! Or Sally's, which is located nearby...
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  • Profile picture of the author NateRivers
    When I started I always used double just because that's what aweber recommended... now I mostly use single. The advantage seems obvious... they are immediately taken to what they are trading their email for. On one of my lists, there is almost 100 people at the bottom that never confirmed... that's enough reason alone to do single.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterkailo
    When I do double optin, I miss out on a lot of people who do not confirm. Everyday I get about 40+ leads but only about 18-20 people confirm.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by misterkailo View Post

      When I do double optin, I miss out on a lot of people who do not confirm. Everyday I get about 40+ leads but only about 18-20 people confirm.
      Even with the best autoresponders, there'll inevitably be a percentage of emails that wind up in Spam, and many people don't think to check for their emails there. This is the downfall with double opt-in, and I feel that it'll result in you losing a significant number of leads over time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Marr
    Double opt-in is more recommended at least the owner of the email account is fully aware that you will be sending him/her loads of information...
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  • Profile picture of the author Vladutz
    Does anyone know...If your email gets into the spam folder automatically, so without the person clicking spam...does this count as spam in Aweber for example?

    Thanx
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    • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
      Originally Posted by vladmm View Post

      Does anyone know...If your email gets into the spam folder automatically, so without the person clicking spam...does this count as spam in Aweber for example?

      Thanx
      Not to my knowledge, no. AWeber don't get notified every time some spam filter automatically flags your email as spam. It only counts as spam inside your AWeber account when someone actually reports you and AWeber "gets word" of it.

      But if your email is going in the spam folder, you'll have to question why. Either:

      (1) One of AWeber's IP addresses from which your email originated has been blacklisted in some spam database (this is rare, I think: these companies spend a lot of time/money on getting whitelisted, which makes them a little more resistant - if not impervious - to being blacklisted like "normal IPs" ... at least without a significantly higher number of complaints), or;

      (2) The content inside your emails contains so many "triggers" that they're being flagged from that alone, regardless of the good standing of their source IP and/or email address (in which case you need to be looking at what you're sending, most likely, and using the "spam score" estimation tool to verify and tweak each of them better before sending or saving to your autoresponder), or;

      (3) Some recipients' spam filters may be configured to be overly sensitive, in which case it won't take much at all for an email to end up in their spam folder (this is also quite rare, but if it's the case then you can be reasonably sure that recipient is having a lot of their other legitimate emails land in their spam folder, too. And this is their problem, really: you can't realistically do anything about it ... ).
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  • Profile picture of the author LiemNguyen
    Personally, I prefer single optin...
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