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"Download Insurance"

by David Sieg
21 replies
I read about this somewhere and at the time I thought it was a great idea, but I'd never have the balls to do it. Now however I'm having second thoughts.

I'm getting swamped with people who "lost" their ebooks (computer trashed, ex-girlfriend, the dog ate it, etc) and want me to give them another copy. I've always done this, and it's never been an issue. But now, using e-junkie, I have to find the order, (not always easy) copy the transaction ID, go to a separate section of the website, issue new download codes, track to see that it has been downloaded, etc.

Of course, lots of times, I notice they are downloading to another computer and not the one that originally bought the ebook. I don't know, maybe it is a scam, maybe not. But whether it is or not, it is costing me a lot of time.

My question to the good folks here is, do you think this is a legitimate upsell? Say charge, $9.99 for "download insurance" (yeah, I know...it is basically vapor, not as bad as health insurance vapor though) and they can get it replaced "in the event of a computer crash" for a year (or whatever)

What do you think would be a fair price for the time and labor of this aspect of customer service?

All the best and thanks in advance for any responses.
#download insurance
  • Profile picture of the author JustinBrooke
    Digital River is the company responsible for the
    online sales of the worlds most popular softwares.

    They offer this download insurance and I think it's
    a brilliant upsell offer.

    Also reminded me that upsells don't have to be
    more expensive than your front end sale. It's just
    something to add value and increase the dollars
    per sale.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by JustinBrooke View Post

      Digital River is the company responsible for the
      online sales of the worlds most popular softwares.

      They offer this download insurance and I think it's
      a brilliant upsell offer.

      Also reminded me that upsells don't have to be
      more expensive than your front end sale. It's just
      something to add value and increase the dollars
      per sale.
      really? I had NO idea that they provide m/s windows, word, the mac OS, dragon naturally speaking, etc.... SARC!

      The download insurance isn't really an upsell, but a SCAM! HECK, they cause problems with transfers and then CHARGE you for extra attempts!?!?!? NO THANKS!

      And david. HOW do you know it is a different system? Cookies disappear, ips change, etc... BESIDES, I sometimes try different systems to try to get past problems that MIGHT be "due to the system", or it is an upgrade.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author David Sieg
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        really? I had NO idea that they provide m/s windows, word, the mac OS, dragon naturally speaking, etc.... SARC!

        The download insurance isn't really an upsell, but a SCAM! HECK, they cause problems with transfers and then CHARGE you for extra attempts!?!?!? NO THANKS!

        And david. HOW do you know it is a different system? Cookies disappear, ips change, etc... BESIDES, I sometimes try different systems to try to get past problems that MIGHT be "due to the system", or it is an upgrade.

        Steve
        Hi Steve,

        Truthfully, I don't understand your question. (but I haven't had my coffee this morning, either) What "different system" are you talking about?

        But I guess, I disagree with you. I wouldn't call it a scam. If it is a scam, then all insurance is a scam. But that is a different discussion. In any insurance you want to name, the vast majority don't use it, but the vast majority pay for the ones that do. No one is forcing anyone to buy it. A person does have free choice. I also didn't cause that person's computer to crash, or that they had to reformat, or whatever. What would happen at Amazon? Or Barnes and Noble? What about Microsoft, or Adobe? Does a customer just get free, unlimited downloads, on as many computers as he wants forever? I really doubt it. I believe it's called a "multiple user license." And they pay more for it. But if I called it a "Multiple Computer License" instead of "download insurance" everything would be OK? I know perfectly well, and so do you, if it was software, you'd have to buy another copy.

        Oh wait a minute...(Coffee just kicked in) I know it is a different computer/system by comparing the IP addresses between the buyer IP and the download IP. And yes, what you describe is a legitimate use. At least in my opinion. Or it could be multiple users as well. How do YOU KNOW its not multiple users? I think I addressed this point in my first post. I also already addressed the point that I've always provided this free of charge.

        David
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by David Sieg View Post

          Hi Steve,

          Truthfully, I don't understand your question. (but I haven't had my coffee this morning, either) What "different system" are you talking about?

          But I guess, I disagree with you. I wouldn't call it a scam. If it is a scam, then all insurance is a scam. But that is a different discussion. In any insurance you want to name, the vast majority don't use it, but the vast majority pay for the ones that do. No one is forcing anyone to buy it. A person does have free choice. I also didn't cause that person's computer to crash, or that they had to reformat, or whatever. What would happen at Amazon? Or Barnes and Noble? What about Microsoft, or Adobe? Does a customer just get free, unlimited downloads, on as many computers as he wants forever? I really doubt it.
          Actually, INSURANCE is usually to protect against something out of the control of EITHER party! And putting a limit on download ATTEMPTS IS causing a problem, especially when you use NON STANDARD methods that aren't declared UP FRONT. AMAZON? BARNES AND NOBLE? To the best of my knowledge, they only have ONE download type. I can't speak to Amazon, but barnes and nobles DOES! If amazon didn't, I'm sure they would get PLENTY of refund requests or lawsuits! Microsoft and adobe DO!!!!!!! GOOD THING too, since I have taken advantage of it! 8-)


          I believe it's called a "multiple user license." And they pay more for it. But if I called it a "Multiple Computer License" instead of "download insurance" everything would be OK?
          WRONG! Multiple user means multiple USERS can use it! Multiple computer means it can be installed on multiple COMPUTERS!

          I know perfectly well, and so do you, if it was software, you'd have to buy another copy.
          We are NOT talking about software, files, etc... here, we are talking about MEDIA! YOU said DOWNLOAD, which is MEDIA! If it fails, you should be able to try it until it SUCCEEDS! If you buy it at a store, you will likely get a CD or some such. If it is bad, you can get a refund. If it is good, and your computer crashes, etc... you can REINSTALL IT! GET IT?

          Oh wait a minute...(Coffee just kicked in) I know it is a different computer/system by comparing the IP addresses between the buyer IP and the download IP.
          WRONG! That doesn't even say it is a different USER, let alone a different computer! Heck, I have tried to download via cable and, after a problem, used EVDO. SAME USER! SAME COMPUTER! It would be IMPOSSIBLE to have the same IP, because the same IP can NOT be routed through two totally different networks and comcast(cable) and verizon(EVDO) are two totally different companies anyway.

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
    Ugh. I don't think I would want to see that on a sales page.

    Sounds like the problem is with e-junkie more than the customers, since you say it's only become a problem since you started using them. I've never used them, so I don't know how they work. I know with RAP you only have to click a button and it re-sends their download email and reactivates it for another x hours (whatever you set it at).

    Maybe you can hire someone to take care of support issues like this.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Sieg
      Originally Posted by Ken Strong View Post

      Ugh. I don't think I would want to see that on a sales page.

      Sounds like the problem is with e-junkie more than the customers, since you say it's only become a problem since you started using them. I've never used them, so I don't know how they work. I know with RAP you only have to click a button and it re-sends their download email and reactivates it for another x hours (whatever you set it at).

      Maybe you can hire someone to take care of support issues like this.
      No, I would say the problem is with the AMOUNT OF CUSTOMERS who want them. E-junkie is secondary. Sure, their system is cumbersome, but normally it isn't a big deal. It's a big deal when 10 customers a day want me to do it for them.

      Also, it isn't something I would put on a sales page. it would be an upsell (or cross sell, or whatever) After they have made their purchase to offer it. I sell an expensive products, not 14.99 eBooks. It could very well be worth someone while to do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    I recommend you stop delivering products with a one-time download service. Instead, invest in membership software so they can reset password and redownload themselves.

    You can also use the software to show banners and cross promote additional products.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Sieg
    Thanks for the input.
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  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    Mm, I would find a way that allows them to download the software whenever they want. Why should they pay? They already did.

    Then it becomes another selling point for you, not a pain in the ass. Some kind of membership software, as has been suggested, is probably the best way to go.

    Upgrades is a different matter and that is something you could charge for and could be managed the same way.

    Cheers,

    Neil
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    • Profile picture of the author David Sieg
      Originally Posted by Neil Morgan View Post

      Mm, I would find a way that allows them to download the software whenever they want. Why should they pay? They already did.

      Then it becomes another selling point for you, not a pain in the ass. Some kind of membership software, as has been suggested, is probably the best way to go.

      Upgrades is a different matter and that is something you could charge for and could be managed the same way.

      Cheers,

      Neil
      Hi Neil,

      Thanks for your reply. Actually, that is the way I've decided to go. Changing my business model to a membership site, and I'm in the process of doing so. What prompted this whole discussion, is I had a customer come back after 2 years wanting another copy. My product had gone through 2 whole rewrites by then, and was truthfully, a completely different (better) product than the one he bought. I gave him the new copy free. After that, i literally had 10 people come along the same day, all asking for new copies. And I gave them all free copies as well. And as I said, many had different IP addresses. Not unusual. Computers break, people move, etc. But it got me thinking. Since then, every single day, I have (many) people asking me for free copies.

      As I said in the previous post, I'm sure the software companies had the same problem. When you are constantly updating a product because of changes in your particular area of expertise, does that entitle someone to a free copy simply because they are a past customer? The major software companies certainly don't think so. I'm not sure how Amazon handles it. But I imagine if you lose your Kindle, you have to purchase all the titles all over again.

      The point of the post was to see if other people were having the same problem and how they were handling it.
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      • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
        Originally Posted by David Sieg View Post

        I'm not sure how Amazon handles it. But I imagine if you lose your Kindle, you have to purchase all the titles all over again.....

        .
        Sign up as an affiliate for Mozy or Carbonite and recommend your customers join an online back-up service!
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        • Profile picture of the author David Sieg
          Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

          Sign up as an affiliate for Mozy or Carbonite and recommend your customers join an online back-up service!
          Great solution! Thanks. Ok, (Devil's advocate here) but lets say they don't join, and then ask for a free copy...what do I do then? Am I back to square one? Or do I charge for it?
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          • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
            Originally Posted by David Sieg View Post

            Great solution! Thanks. Ok, (Devil's advocate here) but lets say they don't join, and then ask for a free copy...what do I do then? Am I back to square one? Or do I charge for it?
            If you're getting a lot of requests, then the answer should probably be - charge for it. Apart from anything else, I would question why so many people are suddenly "losing" an expensive download.

            I say to my clients - backup, backup, backup. Your data is YOUR responsibility - not the responsibility of your local computer shop, or local techie or of the vendor.

            If you bought a lawnmower and lost it, you wouldn't expect the shop to replace it.

            Maybe amend your TOS to state that lost data is the customer's responsibility - and then point out the benefits of online backup. I wouldn't want to live without it.
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            • Profile picture of the author David Sieg
              Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

              If you're getting a lot of requests, then the answer should probably be - charge for it. Apart from anything else, I would question why so many people are suddenly "losing" an expensive download.
              EXACTLY !!!!!

              Why are so many people, all of a sudden, "losing" an expensive download. And if they do, are they automatically entitled to a free download? You've hit the nail on the head.

              I should hire you to write my forum posts! You've said it better than I did.
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      • Profile picture of the author IceMan2010
        Originally Posted by David Sieg View Post

        As I said in the previous post, I'm sure the software companies had the same problem. When you are constantly updating a product because of changes in your particular area of expertise, does that entitle someone to a free copy simply because they are a past customer?
        Absolutely not. That's why you release paid upgrades. If you're a version 1 customer, you can upgrade to v2 for the special price of $xxx.xx, type of thing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Leslie B
        Originally Posted by David Sieg View Post

        What prompted this whole discussion, is I had a customer come back after 2 years wanting another copy. My product had gone through 2 whole rewrites by then, and was truthfully, a completely different (better) product than the one he bought. I gave him the new copy free. After that, i literally had 10 people come along the same day, all asking for new copies.
        This is, according to me, you're whole issue. Someone lost their version (the old version), you were nice enough to give them, for free, the new version and they spilt "the secret" about it. That's the only reason why you got multiple requests for losing it. The first one might not have done it with the idea of having this happen. He might just have been so happy that you offered this to him after he lost his product that he wanted to share it and give you a nice testimonial that way, but the result is the same.

        What I am doing now (I'm reworking one of my products) is keeping the old version and when a buyer of the previous version loses his copy, he'll get the choice, get the old version free of charge, or get the new version for a small fee (and then I'm talking really small, like $10 or something). Just my two cents.

        Leslie
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  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    Hi David

    Glad to see you're getting it sorted

    Another thing you can do (which is easier with software) is to offer a download that's freely accessible and have an "unlock" code of some sort. That way, you can just send the download link to people who have lost the file.

    I do a mixture of all of these and it works well.

    Cheers,

    Neil
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  • Profile picture of the author IceMan2010
    Personally, I wouldn't purchase anything from someone who offered "download insurance" as an option. What a scam...

    Instead, I'd suggest just setting up your operation properly, so your customers don't need to contact you when they need to download the eBook again. There should be a "Forgot / Reset Password" feature, which lets them get access to their account again, and from there they can download whatever products they've purchased from you in the past. There's no reason this should be a strain on either, your or your customer's time. It should all be 100% automated, which isn't difficult to accomplish.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    This is a great way to get a little more cash and offer a value added service. Many people don't know that they can just partition their hard drive and store documents on a completely different section of the drive then where the OS is installed. This has saved me from loosing 1000's of documents and other related files when having to re-install the OS. Of course an external hard drive would do the same thing also.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post


    Needless to say, I won't be buying anymore products from the owner of the script I bought.
    And THAT isn't all! I badmouthed digital river and symantec for YEARS because of STUPID behavior like that!!!! HEY, they may have lost HUNDREDS of customers, WHO KNOWS!?!?!?
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