This whole keyword research format is a fad

21 replies
I don't understand why gurus and many warriors suggest newbies to go for keywords under some phrase match limit.

This doesn't make sense. Everybody here is giving different suggestion, some warriors say that you should only look at top competitors while others suggest just the opposite.

Some says you should take a look at site's overall authority others say that only page links matter.

Still after following most of the stuff I see many exceptional sites ranking on the first page of google.

Why everybody is confusing us?

Is there any solid plan SEO plan which has basis in the real world?
#fad #format #keyword #research
  • Profile picture of the author Quentin
    Keywords of themselves are just that words.

    Unless you wrap them up in some content then they wont achieve much.

    As for which ones to use it really depends on what you are trying to sell.

    If you stuff pages with keywords about dogs and your selling cat products then obviously they are not worth anything.

    As for the traffic they generate it will again be determined on what people search for.

    Example: Do people search for investment properties or property investments. There is quite a difference in traffic. In the end you would create content around both terms but people use one much more than others.

    Quentin
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  • Profile picture of the author Anoopchawla
    I am asking ranking part of keyword research not about buying psychology.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Lotter
    To me, what matters is the competition you face with websites ranking on the first page of Google.

    If there are articles and no authority sites etc on the first page of Google, then regardless of whether there are 500,000 results under phrase match (searching for your keyword in inverted commas in Google), you should have a good chance of ranking at the top.

    Likewise, if there are authority sites and high PR sites dominating the first page of Google, then it doesn't matter if there are only 500 results under phrase match - it will be hard work ranking your website at the top. (although with low competition levels like that you can consider getting traffic with other methods - SEO is only one source of traffic)

    I usually just look at the level of competition on the first page of Google.
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  • Profile picture of the author AFI
    Well you want to see if there is any demand for it first off. If you're not going to go by anything else in regards to SEO or your domain name, at least do the research and see if there are searches for it. I was surprised at some terms I was looking up last night in fact. I thought for sure there would be searches for it and there was "not enough data".
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    • Profile picture of the author genietoast
      The more likely scenario is that your keyword traffic will fall somewhere in between the phrase and exact match.

      But when choosing words in the keyword tool, go for three word or higher keywords because the chances of the competition being lower on those are better.

      Then after that you want to check the strength of the competition. For free tools, if you use a Windows PC computer, then download Traffic Travis. It should help you determine if your keyword will be easy to rank for or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anoopchawla
    Okay, so all you experts tell me whether this term is competitive or not "folding screen"
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Lotter
      Originally Posted by Anoopchawla View Post

      Okay, so all you experts tell me whether this term is competitive or not "folding screen"
      Perhaps if the tone of your request seemed less demanding and rude, warriors may feel more inclined to help you.
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    • Profile picture of the author cashcow
      Originally Posted by Anoopchawla View Post

      Okay, so all you experts tell me whether this term is competitive or not "folding screen"
      Yes, it is competitive. I am actually in the same niche and for some reason, the keywords in the niche seem to be extremely hard to rank for.

      Lee
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

        Yes, it is competitive. I am actually in the same niche and for some reason, the keywords in the niche seem to be extremely hard to rank for.

        Lee
        Won't contradict that because you should know but number three is an exact domain match domain with 69 weak links showing. Of course you can never really know fully because some backlinks never show in any tool but on the face of it it doesn't look that hard.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bradley McK
          I agree with almost everyone above, but I don't approach KW research like a scared little chicken. I know some SEO and frankly, unless they are really targetted buying phrases I don't want 100 visitor a month longtails. I know I am not going to beat out wikipedia or some of the other big names, but I have some good results ranking for some pretty tough KW's. Time is a big help also!
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        • Profile picture of the author cashcow
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Won't contradict that because you should know but number three is an exact domain match domain with 69 weak links showing. Of course you can never really know fully because some backlinks never show in any tool but on the face of it it doesn't look that hard.
          Yes, I agree with you completely!

          In fact, I have several such keywords that look like they should be easy to rank for, yet I can never get my pages to rank. I'm not a ranking Guru, but have a good amount of experience.

          I know it sounds stupid but it seems like there is some kind of ranking juju with this niche... also a few other home furniture niches like bar stools etc... seem to be this way for me. I have no problem ranking in many niches but this one is strange.

          That being said, I am not using exact match domains (I have one big domain for the whole folding screens niche and try to rank the inner pages) so perhaps the OP will have better luck than I.

          Lee
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          • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
            Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

            I know it sounds stupid but it seems like there is some kind of ranking juju with this niche... also a few other home furniture niches like bar stools etc... seem to be this way for me.
            There are certain niches where Google does seem to give a bigger boost to corporate brand sites and local results. Home furnishings is one area where I've noticed them doing this. That's why you'll see me complaining about thefind.com or bizrate.com from time to time since these big time feed scrappers rank so well in this area with nothing. It's not impossible to get to the first page though. I have several sites (most of them on much maligned .infos, BTW) that have. What matters is solid link building, relevant content and time.
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          • Profile picture of the author Anoopchawla
            Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

            Yes, I agree with you completely!

            In fact, I have several such keywords that look like they should be easy to rank for, yet I can never get my pages to rank. I'm not a ranking Guru, but have a good amount of experience.

            I know it sounds stupid but it seems like there is some kind of ranking juju with this niche... also a few other home furniture niches like bar stools etc... seem to be this way for me. I have no problem ranking in many niches but this one is strange.

            That being said, I am not using exact match domains (I have one big domain for the whole folding screens niche and try to rank the inner pages) so perhaps the OP will have better luck than I.

            Lee
            This is what I am saying, if its hard how can a six month old site with less than 100 backlinks rank.

            If you say it is because of exact match then it contradicts many of SEO rules like comp etc.

            This is what I don't like about this game, everything is just like a gamble, nobody knows for sure whether a keyword is hard to rank or not. But yet everybody claims he does.

            May be an seo coach can be a help, do you people know any SEO coach here on warrior forum?
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            • Profile picture of the author cashcow
              Originally Posted by Anoopchawla View Post

              This is what I am saying, if its hard how can a six month old site with less than 100 backlinks rank.

              If you say it is because of exact match then it contradicts many of SEO rules like comp etc.

              This is what I don't like about this game, everything is just like a gamble, nobody knows for sure whether a keyword is hard to rank or not. But yet everybody claims he does.

              May be an seo coach can be a help, do you people know any SEO coach here on warrior forum?
              Well that is the problem with SEO, there are so many factors and mostly you are making an educated guess. No one really knows the exact criteria the SE's use for ranking... plus it is changing all the time!

              That being said, the best way that I know of to learn is by testing ... trying out different keywords with different levels of competition as well as different back link methods. Then you will start to uncover patterns and learn what methods work for you.

              Lee
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  • Profile picture of the author Julin
    Mr. Nick had guided you very correctly...
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    • Profile picture of the author Defunct
      Anoop,

      The point of keyword research is to see how likely or how much effort would be required to rank for that keyword.

      And it is important as search engines are heavily based off keywords in deciding who's web site to show.

      It's the same as working out somethings value for money, except you are trying to see if the traffic you will get vs the difficulty in ranking is worth your time.

      But that's one way of trying to get traffic, not everyone does SEO, some people just focus on a really strong product and do JV or PPC or affiliates.

      There are no hard rules, just guidelines.

      Test everything for yourself and become your own expert.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Originally Posted by Anoopchawla View Post

    I don't understand why gurus and many warriors suggest newbies to go for keywords under some phrase match limit.

    This doesn't make sense. Everybody here is giving different suggestion, some warriors say that you should only look at top competitors while others suggest just the opposite.

    When in doubt use your own judgment. If I am understanding you right then you are correct. Anything that doesn't involve looking at where you actually want to rank (first page) is bogus and misleading. Anything that causes you to focus on search results count (Any of them - phrase, all intitle etc) is just getting you into a bad habit. Install something like SEO Quake and you can judge the strength of competition by looking at the first page. Period.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    keywords: well, if you are expecting your traffic to come from search engines then you need to be ranking for keywords that people are searching for.

    Being #1 for knitted kitty sweaters isn't going to do you a lot of good while bing #1 for cat breeds will get eyeballs on your website.

    You also need to take into consideration buying keywords or niches that are going to sell if you're pushing a product. List building is another story but it's not my scene so I'll leave that to the list gurus.

    competition: depending on your SEO abilities, competition is your biggest adversary. Sure, Dating gets a lot of traffic and being #1 for dating is going to make dirty rotten filthy stinkin' rich... but that's a competition level that is out of reach for that majority of marketers.

    Authority is just a generic term for the strength of a site and includes the number of backlinks, page rank, domain age etc... Amazon.com has authority.

    You need to put the pieces together yourself... find keywords that people are searching for with a competition level that you can compete with.

    This is different for everybody.

    Is there any solid plan SEO plan which has basis in the real world?
    Yes, a lot of backlinks from a lot of sites has always worked for me. Simple as that.

    We can nit-pick the details like the quality of backlinks and blah blah blah but really, if you get a lot of backlinks you will see results.

    Exact match domains, quality content, unique content, .com is best, page rank... it's a lot of overrated hogwash.

    backlinks will lead you to the promised land.

    .
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  • Profile picture of the author jazbo
    As several knowledgeable people have already said, the only thing that matters is the strength of the competition on page one for the term. Its not really keyword research, so much as competitor research that is the base to work from.
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  • Profile picture of the author smartsites
    "folding screen" gets 4,400 exact match searches according to google. A quick look at the top 10 reveal an average PR of 2 and you have herman miller, target, amazon, ehow in the top 10. No exact match domains available so this seems to me to be a little hard to crack.
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