How Do You Reverse a Charge that PayPal Won't Refund?

by 46 replies
I'm just curious if anyone has attempted this before. I have never tried and never had the need to until now. I signed up with boxedart several months ago and after a few days realized that I didn't like it. I forgot to cancel my account and they have charged me again.

The very day I got the charge, I contacted BoxedArt asking for a cancellation and a refund. In fact I did this within 4 hours of the charge. They refused. So naturally since I paid with PayPal I went directly to PayPal and issued a dispute on the charge. PayPal said it wasn't covered under their protection policies or something along those lines.

So now I am stuck with contacting my bank to issue a chargeback. Has anyone ever tried this? And will get issued to the merchant, BoxedArt? Or will it get issued to PayPal and result in my PayPal account getting locked or terminated?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #boxed art #charge #chargeback #paypal #refund #reverse
  • Profile picture of the author schabotte
    Chances are good that the bank will give you the chargeback because they value you the user of the credit card more than they value the merchant - the entity they make their money off of. This is simply because if the end consumer loses faith in the credit card system, it collapses.

    However their policy probably states that no refunds are issued after a monthly charge is made so expect them to fight the chargeback request. And since you purchased and kept the first month and only cancelled after the 2nd monthly charge was issued, there is a chance they will win.

    Of course, with paypal in the middle, there are other issues with chargebacks.

    Paypal has several help sections related to chargebacks that you may want to read. Just go to paypal, click on help and type chargeback in the box.
    • Profile picture of the author Jeff B
      If you paid with funds from your Paypal account, then your bank can't help you. If you paid with a bank debit/credit card through paypal but not through your account, then that's a different story.
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    Or you can just suck it up and chalk it up to experience. After all, it was YOU who 'forgot to cancel'.

    The merchant didn't do anything wrong and doesn't really deserve a chargeback, do they? Especially when it will cost them another $25-$30 to rectify an oversight on your part.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff B
      Originally Posted by steveinidaho View Post

      Or you can just suck it up and chalk it up to experience. After all, it was YOU who 'forgot to cancel'.

      The merchant didn't do anything wrong and doesn't really deserve a chargeback, do they? Especially when it will cost them another $25-$30 to rectify an oversight on your part.
      Excellent point.
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    • Profile picture of the author Curt Dillion
      Originally Posted by steveinidaho View Post

      The merchant didn't do anything wrong and doesn't really deserve a chargeback, do they? Especially when it will cost them another $25-$30 to rectify an oversight on your part.
      Bull...., If the merchant won't refund, they deserve the cost of a chargeback.

      If the credit card is Visa or Mastercard, the issuing bank will chargeback. Contact them.
  • Profile picture of the author Louis Raven
    You also have to see what it looks like to them. You want to cancel a few day after receiving the info/goods? yeah right!

    That's how it probably looks to them.

    But, I'd contact them and explain the situation and ask them if the only choice you have is to get a credit card charge back?

    See what they say to that

    Louis
  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    Yes, try once more with the merchant. If not, a chargeback is in order. I had almost the exact same issue and PayPal decided in my favor.

    TomG.
  • Profile picture of the author Bigsofty
    I'm not familiar with what this service is but if you didn't like it why didn't you cancel upon reaching that decision, why wait until the after the 2nd charge to decide it wasn't for you?

    That you didn't use whatever you downloaded is utterly irrelevant.

    I'm sorry but I have to side on the merchant on this one. Having said that if I were the merchant I'd refund you just to avoid the hassle and ill-feeling but I don't see you have any RIGHT to demand a refund. There was nothing stopping you from cancelling well before the charge was due.

    I'd say it would be perfectly fair if they refunded but charged something like a 10% admin fee.




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  • Profile picture of the author Angela V. Edwards
    Well, I don't know how you'd get the refund, but it's pretty sad that the company didn't refund you. That's just good customer service.

    I had a customer who needed information on how to cancel his subscription to my service. So I helped him. I got the following email from him:

    Angela,

    Thank you. Your character shines through by helping someone who is cancelling a subscription to your service.

    I appreciate your assistance and integrity.

    Take care,
    Next time this person encounters someone who's looking for a great way to get High PR backlinks, who do you think he's going to recommend? I believe in top notch customer service and I am glad there are many other marketers who do, as well. The ones who don't do this correctly won't have anywhere near the word-of-mouth advertising that they could have had.


    Originally Posted by jjpmarketing View Post

    I'm just curious if anyone has attempted this before. I have never tried and never had the need to until now. I signed up with boxedart several months ago and after a few days realized that I didn't like it. I forgot to cancel my account and they have charged me again.

    The very day I got the charge, I contacted BoxedArt asking for a cancellation and a refund. In fact I did this within 4 hours of the charge. They refused. So naturally since I paid with PayPal I went directly to PayPal and issued a dispute on the charge. PayPal said it wasn't covered under their protection policies or something along those lines.

    So now I am stuck with contacting my bank to issue a chargeback. Has anyone ever tried this? And will get issued to the merchant, BoxedArt? Or will it get issued to PayPal and result in my PayPal account getting locked or terminated?
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
      Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

      Next time this person encounters someone who's looking for a great way to get High PR backlinks, who do you think he's going to recommend?
      That's an interesting question, considering he canceled yours. I'm not judging your service at all, just wondering if someone who wasn't happy with it would recommend it to others.
  • Profile picture of the author DBryan78324
    I've had the same problem you are having only mine was a bit different. The product was not as advertised in my two cases. Perhaps this is why you did not use the product, it was not what was advertised. In both of my cases, I won on that fact, not as advertised. Go one step future and file the step after a dispute, (think it is called a claim, but not sure) with Pay pal. Also contact your bank even if it was a direct withdrawal from your account. Most likely your bank will get your money back, as they want a happy customer. Pay Pal, (which I have worked with for years) does not really care one way or another. I agree with the people who are saying it is the right thing for the merchant to do, but the merchant probably is only interested in the money and not your satisfaction, otherwise they would offer a guarantee even if it was a downloaded item. You just have to fight it and not give up, cause this is what most people do, write it up to experience. Myself I hate the spam that is floating around on the Internet and all the ads on making millions next month...
    Good Luck, but there is ways to get your money back unless you give up...
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    • Profile picture of the author jjpmarketing
      I never received a notice that I was going to be charged. I use PayPal quite a bit for purchases, and had completely forgotten about the purchase. For some reason I thought I might find use out of it later. Out of sight, out of mind.

      It wasn't like it was a monthly charge. It was a quarterly charge.

      It doesn't matter what their TOS says, it is like what Angela mentioned, it is a matter of good customer service. If they had given a refund as I requested, nothing would have been mentioned afterwards.

      Now since at the moment it looks like I may not get a refund, not only will I have to pursue the chargeback route, but I will also tell anyone I know that they should never do business with BoxedArt because of my negative experience. It is a lose, lose situation.

      I lose because I may not get my $49.99 back, and they lose because I mention to the people I know that they are not a good company to do business with.

      I gave them the first chance to correct the situation. They declined. I am giving them a second chance with the PayPal dispute process. I won't give them a 3rd chance to correct it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
    I have got money back from the most resistant of merchants by threatening to post details of my experience with them in all the forums I belong to and on all my lists of thousands. It has worked every time except once when I actually did discredit someone on some e-mail lists and the company begged me not to do it again and quickly refunded my money.

    Its not Paypal's fault as you forgot to cancel your subscription which they had undertaken on your behalf to pay. Its now between you and the company with which you have the dispute.

    Hope this helps.

    Norma
  • Profile picture of the author joblythe
    Norma

    I have got money back from the most resistant of merchants by threatening to post details of my experience with them in all the forums I belong to and on all my lists of thousands. It has worked every time except once when I actually did discredit someone on some e-mail lists and the company begged me not to do it again and quickly refunded my money.
    That's a strange reaction to compare your experiences to those of someone who didn't like the product from the start, yet waited until the second payment was taken, before asking for a refund! The OP forgot to cancel - would you have made that clear to your lists of thousands and all the people on the forums you belong to??

    I doubt it! - different circumstances - different attitude!
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  • Profile picture of the author joblythe
    I didn't actually forget to cancel. I only used "forgot to cancel" as an example. It was a lot simpler to say that than to go on explaining all the reasons I didn't cancel immediately, then forgot about the charge, and thought I had cancelled, but then realized that I actually hadn't cancelled.
    Mmmmm - wonder if BA understood this?? :confused:
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    • Profile picture of the author jjpmarketing
      Even though I did go into detail with them explaining it, I doubt it mattered. Their TOS is written to protect them from this.

      I asked in the hopes they would provide me with a refund... as in provide good customer service.

      @Thomas Belknap

      Do whatever you feel you need to do, Thomas. If ever, I had a customer like that I would provide them with customer service... not "Read the TOS" BS. And if you put what happened in the simplest terms, yes I did forget to cancel.

      Now if you actually go through with Blogging about me, then as is always the case, the truth will come out in the end. That is true for me, and it will be true for the case with Boxed Art.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    I don't want people to have a negative opinion of the company.
    Yet, earlier you said:
    Now since at the moment it looks like I may not get a refund, not only will I have to pursue the chargeback route, but I will also tell anyone I know that they should never do business with BoxedArt because of my negative experience. It is a lose, lose situation.
    Make up your mind.

    They held up their end of the deal, why can't you?

    The amount of time you spent here, complianing about how YOU don't want to be held accountable for your actions, or should I say inaction, you could have earned that $50.

    It's not like they make you jump through hoops to cancel either. You just login to PayPal and click cancel.

    If you do a bank chare back, you will have to lie to the bank and say it was unauthorized. Are you willing to lie?
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    ... as in provide good customer service.
    Buut you wouldnt be a customer if they refunded it.
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    • Profile picture of the author jjpmarketing
      No Garrie I wouldn't lie. I would tell them what happened. I have only spent time on this thread explaining what happened.

      You also didn't catch a key phrase, "At this moment..."

      I won't be making any blog posts until it is all worked out. Either way the full ordeal will be detailed on my blog.
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  • Profile picture of the author Glenn Grundberg
    Thomas, I hope you get help...

    But seriously, I agree with everything you've said, and second your motions here (for what that's worth).

    Personally, I would have just refunded him and let it go as well, but BA has every right to take any action within their TOS that they like.

    @Dennis: Your lame-ass excuse that you wanted to maybe use the membership later sort of...then kinda forgot...or maybe...whatever...

    Dude, the whole thing smacks of whining, and a shocking example of a sense of entitlement and an unwillingness to take personal responsibility for one's actions.

    See, there's a little thing called a "Calendar" that's available pretty much ANYWHERE for free...Your email program probably has one...Google even gives you one for free that will send you reminders!

    When you buy a subscription, set up a reminder when the next bill is coming due! Then you won't have to eat another mistake, or come here and whine about your own lack of planning.

    Works for me!
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff B
      Originally Posted by Glenn Grundberg View Post

      Thomas, I hope you get help...

      But seriously, I agree with everything you've said, and second your motions here (for what that's worth).

      Personally, I would have just refunded him and let it go as well, but BA has every right to take any action within their TOS that they like.

      @Dennis: Your lame-ass excuse that you wanted to maybe use the membership later sort of...then kinda forgot...or maybe...whatever...

      Dude, the whole thing smacks of whining, and a shocking example of a sense of entitlement and an unwillingness to take personal responsibility for one's actions.

      See, there's a little thing called a "Calendar" that's available pretty much ANYWHERE for free...Your email program probably has one...Google even gives you one for free that will send you reminders!

      When you buy a subscription, set up a reminder when the next bill is coming due! Then you won't have to eat another mistake, or come here and whine about your own lack of planning.

      Works for me!
      I was just about to reply to again, but you saved me some time. I couldn't have said it better myself.

      By agreeing to their TOS when you signed up, you entered into a legally binding agreement. You don't have a leg to stand on in this case.
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
    Ok.. first and foremost...

    There is no requirement that says anyone has to give a refund just because a customer requests one. The ability to get a refund is not an absolute right.

    As has been stated above, try to buy a car then once you sign the papers say you changed your mind and want a refund. See how fast they laugh you out of the place.

    A huge amount of businesses have a no refund policy, or a conditional refund policy. That is entirely within their right as a seller. The seller sets their own rules for what they will and will not do when entering into a transaction with a customer. It is up to the customer to agree to those terms and purchase, or not agree and not purchase.

    Just because you purchase a product online, and most people give refunds, that does not automatically mean everyone will or even should give refunds. This is up to each individual seller.

    Second, you agreed to their terms of service by clicking a required check box before purchase. They forced you to agree to their terms before you became a customer of thiers. This means that at the end of the day, no matter what, they are in the right. You agreed to abide by their terms so you have no recourse. You don't have to like it, your not required to like it, but you are required to agree or not purchase.

    You have no right complaining about anything once you agree to the terms of service. The seller posted their policies clearly on their web site and made those policies available to you to view. They then forced you to agree to those policies before you purchased.

    Third, you can sugar coat things any way you like, but by trying to force a company to give you a refund because you don't want to honor the contract you entered into with them you are in effect committing fraud.

    You entered into a contract with the seller by making a purchase and if you try to break the terms of that contract then you are defrauding the seller. Most people will not like that statement, but it is the truth.

    This mentality of I deserve a refund just because I want one has given this industry a black eye and has been one of the forces which give IM such a bad reputation. It's no wonder people think anyone in IM is a scammer when so many people are willing to try to scam sellers out of honestly earned income.

    How about people taking some personal responsibility for their own actions and own up to their own mistakes for a change?
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