Hopefully, this doesn't happen to the Warrior Forum... Michel Fortin's Copywriters Board closes down

No wonder the guy charges so much for a sales letter. That's some
powerful writing there.

I don't think this forum is going anywhere.

I'll leave it at that.

What a loss. It's the place I would instantly send people to who asked me about copywriting.

It's a very thoughtfully written closing letter and I know in addition to this he's been through the struggles with his wife's health not so long ago.

His pain is palable in that letter which perhaps is one of the keys to his brilliance as a copywriter - it's not just about techniques and tricks - it's about using those along with his ability to truly emphathize.

Hope it comes back someday even if it's 10 years from now.

Paul Schlegel

Man, that's a shame.

Mind you, I know that copywriters are an egotistical bunch.

I wouldn't want to be moderating a forum full of 'em

Go down the same path?

Hell man this forum has been on that path since its very start. What do you think keeps it as good as it is now?

Little blue fairies?

:-)

Owning a forum is no walk in the park, unless maybe it's a New York park or something. I know exactly how he feels. You get accused of everything from both sides at the same time.

That sucks; I have picked up some good stuff at that forum in the past.

PS - Congrats on the awesome discipline Jason!

Was interesting though that one of the things he mentioned was monetizing the forum and the flack he took for it - LOL - as I recall, THAT was an issue here for awhile - which I still don't get.....doesn't everyone have a right to make a living when they OWN the darned site?

If Allen wants to have a popup every time I log in - it's his choice - and I would probably put up with it because the value would still exceed the irritation....well, most days ..... ;-)

And yes, I agree that it will probably be back as a paid site, in the fairly near future.

It's too bad, really.

The archives and many of the past posts/discussions were valuable. Great threads about tearing a piece of copy apart and making it better. Michel himself made awesome contributions too. I hope it comes back like it USED TO BE.

The negatives were as mentioned: all the showing off and nitpicking. Some posters developed their list of 'good guys' and 'bad guys'. ...and for new people it could be brutal.
(I also think some posters developed an 'entitlement mentality' about the board, unfortunately)
______
Bruce

ouch, that blows...sad to see it down, although I suspect it will be a short lived closing....hopefully....<I hate browsing sites via cache copies>


pre-PS: that thread Jason posted was uber light in comparison to some threads I've seen on some other boards...that's not even a thin skin issue...that's like a translucent skin issue

People should read that letter and remember Allen has the right to do the same whenever he wants if anything becomes destructive to his goal for the WF.. whatever that may be..

I'd hate if that happened to the WF and I wish Michel the best with his decision, present and future..

Peace

Jay

Modding isn't easy, that's for sure.

Enjoy a much-deserved break, Michel!! Your forum will be missed, but never forgotten

"Wild boom", is that really necessary? And do you want to share your name and picture if you're going to sling poorly spelled insults at people?

You know the War Room is paid and it's really got so much 'how to' help in there that each member who applies it and really follows through,

can "economy proof" their income and be immune to normal market shifting ups and downs.

Much respect to Michel Fortin as his copywriting insights have created fortunes.

And yeah, no insults are necessary. That's not what it's about.

Every warrior should get their membership to the war room and write it off as either tuition or business expense, cause either way, it excels them both.

Members here do a great job of keeping the peace in my honest opinion.

One thing about both Allen and Michel is that they have provided tons of value to the world economy, online business community and anyone who cares to better themselves in marketing.

Private War Room membership should be a pre-requisite for anyone considering doing business online.

The funniest thing about the accusations about me from Wild Bloom is I'm one of the worst examples of how to make money from a forum. I almost never capitalize on the eyeballs viewing my stuff.

I seldom try to consciously monetize anything I do on any forum, especially the copywriting forum. If anything, I repelled money over there.

And every copywriting job I ever landed there from inquiries, I gave to one of the existing members.

I think Wild Bloom is just pissed cuz he tries so hard with little results in return. It's a fairly common thing with struggling copywriters and marketers. (Especially when I make it look so easy).

And when things aren't working well for oneself, it's often easy to point fingers and accuse successful people for their own shortcomings.

I was heartbroken to see that forum go. The cause of its demise was even more troublesome. I guess that's a lesson to members that just because someone says a snide remark, doesn't mean that you have to respond.

Actually, the day before the site closed, an egotistical $&@#*! made a funky comment to my post. Even though it took "an act of God" for me not to reply; I didn't.

I will continue to bite my tongue and let petty things that don't affect me slide off my shoulders if it means that I will continue to have the luxury of communicating with all of you. I would have to say that the majority of members on this forum are extremely helpful and kind. I found the same to be true for Michel's forum. I guess a few bad apples ruined it for the rest of us.

I don't have much to say. I just want to add, I consider Michel a top guy. One of the best.

I was more of a lurker on the board, and learned a lot from it. However, I totally respect his decision to take a T/O, and possibly even pull the plug on the forum forever.

Just to add, a lot of folks could learn from Michel as a person. He's got an inspiring personal story, and deserves all the respect he gets.

Keep pressing on,

JK

I still love all the folks at the Copywriters forum.

I think it's a fun place, informative, and full of lively discussion with people I tend to like.

Personally I think the negative stuff was quite minor in comparison to all the positive stuff. But I guess I tend to always find positives in everything I can.

I think the members over there are good peeps!

That's too bad... I mean... things really do come and go.

Just hope the 'guilty' ones are remembered and dont get any business, as who wants to do business with someone that bad mouths someone who's just asking for help?

First of all, thank you to all who emailed me personally and expressed your well-wishes. They mean a lot to me. Even the negative feedback (yes, there were some).

Contrary to what some people lead you to believe here, I also thrive on negative feedback. I'm not as thin-skinned as you might think. And I love hearing all sides of an issue.

After all, as my friend Mark Joyner once said to me, "I would be a damned fool not to listen to advice that would help me make more money," even if that meant putting my ego in check and swallowing my pride when needed.

But let me share with you a few things, some of which were expressed by a few people here, so you get a better sense of what's going on and to put a few things in perspective...

By the way, that single thread Jason pointed out was not the thread that sealed the deal. Far from it. Sure, it was another reason added to a growing list that fueled my growing discontent with the board. But that thread was very mild and tamed, compared to some of the all-out, knockout, knuckle-draggin' fisticuffs we've seen over there from time to time.

(Some of you Warriors will know exactly what I mean.)

But what you must understand is, this has been a growing concern for many months -- if not years. It has been brewing for a long time. More importantly, it was also based on what went on behind the scenes as much as what went on within the forum itself.

Namely, there are 5 things to consider here...

1. Dwindling Membership

From a statistical standpoint, while the forum has grown immensely in terms of popularity in the last 10 years (some days we had close to 500+ members logged in on the forum at any given time), recently it has dwindled significantly.

Personally, I don't care. Not too much, anyway. (I care more about the reasons why, and I'll come back to them later.)

Don't get me wrong. I do care about my members. But I don't care if the board is popular or not, because the board was neither a business nor an income generator for me. It never was. When I first opened it, it was solely to promote me and my copywriting services, which I no longer need to do.

2. Bullies and Backbiters

But when you take a hard look at the reasons why those numbers are dwindling, then there are some serious considerations you need to take. One reason is, certain members on the board outright bullied new and struggling copywriters who only came to the forum seeking help and support. Granted, some were supportive and helpful. Others were far from it.

So certain members were literally "killing" the forum, in a sense. Newbies were downright scared to join. Yes, I do mean scared. And of those who had the courage to join, many would eventually become passive lurkers than they were active participants. And that's a real shame.

My forum was supposed to be a place of learning, help, and community -- not a place for disparaging, childish, playground-like back-and-forth-shoving, "my-genitals-are-bigger-than-yours" type of conversations, which seemed to have become more and more pervasive in later times.

Newbies started emailing me or messaging me privately to ask, "WTF?" Some of them outright accused me of lacking leadership, all the way to allowing or promoting slander.

Sure, I had to take some of those with a grain of salt. Forget the cantankerous remarks some may give from time to time. (Arrogant jerks will always be arrogant jerks. Not much you can do about these people, except to take their personalities with a grain of salt, too. Or an entire shaker.)

And I'm not talking about being harsh -- often, the harshest critics are the ones you learn the most from. If you come to a forum wanting help and you want honest advice, what would you prefer? Brutal honesty? Or sugarcoated, feelgood pats on the head? (I know which ones I would want for myself.)

But what I'm talking about are the downright nasty, elitist, "who do you think you are?" remarks, often padded with snarky, condescending comments that only serve to denigrate, demean, or bolster one's own standing. Add to that the endless backbiting and hypocrisy, all the way to personal attacks and actual threats.

3. Behind-the-Scenes Accusations

Being accused of being a profiteer is one thing. Those accusations usually slide off my back like water off a shiny, newly buffed car. I'm a capitalist, and I won't ever apologize for it. You don't like the ads? Tough cookies.

Being accused of corruption is a step up. And that irked me somewhat, but not much more. You will always have pejorative detractors and naysayers, no matter where you go, what business you're in, which forum you hang out in, or what people you attract.

It's only natural, especially in the field of copywriting where egos, passions, and opinions are stronger than most. You can't please all the people all the time. But trying to keep the peace among such a diverse group of opinionated people is next to impossible. But it was manageable, and I've done so for many years.

However...

Being accused of borderline unethical and even illegal behavior is ultimately something I can't take sitting down. In the last year alone, I was being outright accused (and even threatened with legal action) for promoting hatred and profanity, fostering religious discrimination, being sexist, and, of all things, being a racist.

While these things did hurt me on a personal level (and still do), they are serious charges I do not and cannot take lightly.

4. Lack of Focus

Much to the surprise of most, I have other, real income-based businesses to take care of. Businesses I love and enjoy. While I worked hard to manage the peace on my forum for many years, I didn't want to do any of the heavy lifting anymore. Simply, I'm sick and tired of babysitting. And when you have dissension not only among members but also moderators themselves, oftentimes it can become excruciatingly painful.

Each day, I spent from a half-hour to several hours calming tempers, deleting posts, answering private messages, fixing glitches, refereeing debates, all the way to calling some members -- even moderators -- on the phone to assuage their concerns.

This is what has taken its toll on me.

I have other, more important things. I need to be productive. I need to have focus. (Particularly in today's economy, and so should you!) A forum can become a place where the lines between loitering and productivity start to blur. In fact, if you lack self-discipline, a forum can also become an excuse for not taking action. And it often is, sadly so.

Much like a lot of newbies who join forums, I, too, used to spend too much time on them. But the less I participated and interacted, the more money I made. (Funny that.) And just when I felt I had more time on my hands to work on my businesses, my forum was dragging me back in, either to quash flames, keep egos in check, or respond to senseless bitching for which I neither had the time nor the motivation.

I need to stick with doing the things that are profitable -- and dump the ones that are not. Mind you, Copywriters Board, in itself, can be profitable. Very profitable. But it's not my main business (unlike Warriors is for Allen, for example). It was never my intention to make it one. And it takes my attention away from some of my real businesses, where people actually -- and cheerfully -- pay me for my help and advice.

So the possibility of closing the forum down was something that has been nagging at me for a very long time. And with the events of late (such as the new moderator changes, along with losing personal friendships that were near and dear to me), I decided it was time.

5. People Are More Important

Besides businesses, there are more important things in life. There are people. Not just paying clients, but also (and more importantly) friends and family. These are the people who value you, respect you, and love you.

For example, many of you know about my wife's breast cancer last year, which was a hard time for our family. But there's something else you may not know. You see, I am truly blessed to have married the most positive, compassionate, intelligent, wise, and supportive person I've ever met. Here's a case in point...

This year, when my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer, too (back in March), where she came to live with us for 8 months following her mastectomy so we could take care of her while she healed, and to drive her to the hospital on a daily basis for her treatments, a few things happened.

One of them is, my wife literally saved my mother's life.

I'm not exaggerating. You see, my wife was a huge support for my mom. Having gone through it herself, she was her pillar. My mother was on the brink of suicide -- indirectly, as she was on the verge of refusing treatment altogether, and at first decided to not go through her chemotherapy and radiation treatments. She was giving up.

Luckily, my wife was there. She convinced her otherwise. Plus, I was there, too. And in 40 years (i.e., my entire life), I finally had a chance to get to know my mom. To really, really know her. (If you know my story about my childhood, growing up with an abusive, alcoholic father, you'll understand how important this was for me.)

But last week was the clincher.

You see, our son has a friend who has been somewhat part of the family for many years. This boy had a less-than-savory upbringing that closely resembled mine. He grew up in a very harsh environment, one always reeking of alcohol and constant bickering, fighting, and namecalling.

(The bullies on my board are nowhere near the crap this little boy suffered. If you only knew what this boy had to put up with, from his foul-mouthed mother and abusive, drug-dealing siblings, to a series of less-than-perfect alcoholic step-fathers who couldn't care less. Or worse.)

This boy's mother, who may not have been the best mother out there, still loved her son very much. But in addition to years of drugs and alcohol abuse, she too had suffered several bouts of cancer in her own life. In fact, she lost one lung to the disease years ago. Along with liver disease and a host of other problems, she kept fighting several recurrences of cancer throughout her lifetime.

However, just recently (a little less than a month ago), it was diagnosed that the cancer spread to an inoperable part of her brain. (The sad part was, she told us just a few weeks ago when she called to check up on her son who was staying with us for a sleepover with our son, and that she didn't want him to know and asked us not to say anything.)

She passed away last week.

We were all stunned. Especially given the fact that Sylvie has been like a second mother to her little boy. Our home was often a safe haven for him -- sometimes lasting for several days and even weeks -- when things were rough at home. The worst part is, this boy will likely be shunted off from family member to family member, many of whom live far away. And there's nothing we can do about it, unfortunately.

It was then I realized that there are more important things than all the negative, toxic, poisonous, backstabbing, crap-flinging that goes on. On any forum.

So I made a tough decision. A very tough one.

And all I can say is... I feel liberated.

I hope this clears it up for many of you. Thanks for reading this and taking the time to "listen."

Michel Fortin

P.S.: While my post above might appear as if I was doing all the hard work, nothing can be further from the truth. I really want to acknowledge my moderators who did a fabulous job. I value their time as much as mine. I couldn't have done it all by myself. It was impossible. And they were on my forum, wasting a lot of their own, unpaid time to deal with all the unnecessary B.S.

I'd like to thank them all from the bottom of my heart.

Good call Michel...

While it was a resource that generated some very insightful and helpful discussions for many - as you said - It also harbored some horrible attacks against peoples morals and beliefs which was ridiculous.

Being the person who has to regulate things like that just fills your mind with crap not worth the time of even considering. I say congrats on making a tough (but logical) decision. Take care...

Dave

Wow I had no idea this was going on. I visit infrequently, when I'm working on sales copy and want to learn from copywriters who specialize in that area, and I was always happy with the atmosphere.

So sorry you had to endure this Michel! May you and your family have some peace this holiday season and for years to come

Thanks for all you did with your board in trying to maintain its integrity!
Tiff

What's been mentioned here for a possible "re-opening" is right. In my opinion, the ONLY way for the Copywriter's Board to be successful again is to...

1. Have 3 sections. Copywriting, Marketing, & Member Promotions. Have a $10-$25 fee to post in the Member Promotion area. That will eliminate all BS.

2. I wouldn't have a minimum post rule. There's only 2 sections, Marketing and Copywriting. It would be simple to moderate and it's as easy as it gets. Let the newbies in and start rollin' right off the bat.

3. Create a ZERO tolerance or self promotion on the Copywriting and Marketing section. We all know the members whose only purpose was to position themselves as some great copywriter there only to push a seminar or whatever. It got old.

If those 3 things were done the forum would be cake to moderate and manage and it'd be very productive in my opinion.

There was one thread there that I referred to on occasion and had bookmarked but I never became a member of the site. However I used to read some really great stuff on the site as a lurker.

Congrats to Michel on a job well done regardless of what the future may hold.

A sad day. I've always found Michel to be extremely helpful and inspiring to people, even (and especially) new copywriters. A great guy. Here's wishing him all the best!

Steve

Hi Michel,
I did visit the board infrequently, when I need answers to copy issues.
Thanks for being honest and for developing such a useful resource.
I pray that you enjoy the rest of the year and have a brill 2009.

Regards,
Yvonne

Full and heartfelt respect for all the personal reasons for closing the board. Anyone who can't clearly see that Michel Fortin is a top notch human being...well, I feel sorry for you.

That said, I just want to say I wish I had copied and saved many more posts than I did. It's the resources and information the board offered that meant the most to me. I feel a deep sense of loss from not being able to go back and look up my favorite threads.

Michel, I wish you the best in the future. I would not want to be in your position. The board was so significant that it actually became a real place to all of us. And we miss our favorite place, that's all.

Kindest regards,

Seth

Michel,
I'm sorry the Copywriters Board was closed. It was a good forum loaded with lots of info. I only visited occasionally and posted even less often. I used to refer people over there.

But I totally understand and saw some of the not too cool posts.

Death of a close one can certainly put a fresh perspective on things. And all the back biting hidden sneak attacks by somone with a search and destroy agenda can really wear you down and fray your nerves.

I can relate on those two points big time. My dad passed away 28 Oct 2008 and I was a daddy's girl. I still haven't grieved properly or had my big cry. I just can't but that's another story. And I have a sibling who could make mincemeat out of all the vilest poster offenders put together in one room. And this sibling is determined to tear my family into itty bitty shreds just so they get their own way at the expense of everyone else.

So I personally know firsthand what it's like. My heart and prayers go out to you Michel. You had to take action against the ilk as I did and at great untold cost. I know how bad it can get when your nerves are so shot you get too close you almost fall off the edge.

When things get that bad you must distance yourself or you'll become toast. But there is empowerment when you take control back from these evil doers. I think I know the cost. Unfortunately for me, I can't bring total closure to my situation. I do feel your pain. And on top of all the drama I'm recovering from surgery on both feet and probably won't be fully recovered until next July.

Good can come out of this though. The phoenix rises up out of the ashes and soars to great heights. I am thickening my skin and making a stand. And I've learned more compassion for others. We never know what their situation might be. Plus I've become all the stronger and more caring because of what I've gone through.

But there never is an excuse for bad behavior.

I do hope the Copywriters Board comes back. Truly I do.

trease

Ordo ab Chao?

Keep your finger cross. Stay tuned!


Hardi

I guess I find it a bit perplexing to read the complaints inferring that the Copywriter's Board was full of bullies.

Yes there were times when the critiques could be harsh...

Yes there were times, especially in the "Off Topic" area where things got heated, and I can understand how someone could read one of those threads and think, "Gosh person so & so is a complete a-hole."

But I think overall that board was no better or no worse than most of the other boards I've frequented.

Heck even it this thread Moffat got a jumped by someone... It happens. I wouldn't label this board full of bullies. But as a boards grow it will get all sorts of visitors-- some a little less respectful than others. Like I said, it happens.

Hi,

I sincerely do not know where all these so-called pros find the time to
shoot the breeze in forums, any forum! Each time I visit the WF there is
yet another new name with 1k+ posts giving advice to all and sundrie
and they have only been a member for a few months. That's gotta play
havoc with your hourly rate!

The Copywriter's forum is one of our great online resources and I sincerely
hope Michel finds some way of navigating around these problems to bring it
back live and loud.

Yes, it probably has its fair share of loud-mouthed ego-maniac devas who
need it more than it needs them - but what online forum doesn't?

But here's my solution:
I say boot out anyone with a higher weekly post count than is believeable
for a full time worker and you'll quickly discover only the value posters remain!
And the real pros (who don't have time to be gassing non-essential on
forums)!

Tell me I'm wrong. (Ok, that is partly tongue in cheek, but only partly.)

Phil

Michel, you are an essential part of any online copywriter's education;
and it's a relief that you are also a good great! I wish you all the best.

Where's Angie?

It's a shame that it closed, but I've seen many forums turn toxic by folks who like to stir things up with negativity, instead of being a contributing member of a productive community.

Guys, excuses and reasons are created for a purpose. Things will bounce back for better. Remember.


Hardi

I've been meaning to say this for a long time.

But for me personally, I believe that when someone uses adblocking scripts, especially on a site that's free and paid for by ads and sponsors (and therefore the ads are not really there to make profits but to cover the expenses of offering the free resource), adblocking is theft.

And I agree wholeheartedly with Paul.

It's no different than stealing a DVD. Why? Because if you watch a movie on TV (cable TV, that is), there are commercials. They help pay for the movie. You don't like commercials? So you opt to buy the DVD instead. That is, you still paid for it in some way.

But if you got a free movie without paying for it (whether it's paying for it by buying the DVD or at least paying for it with your time by putting up with the "annoyance" of some ads), then you are no different than someone who downloads free software or music or movies off of file sharing sites.

If you have commercial-free specialty TV channels, you're still paying for it with your cable bill. So to continue my analogy, this would be like hotwiring your cablebox from the cable company in order to watch the commercial-free movies.

Bottom line, if you attempt to circumvent the ads or bypass the normal use of a resource that's brought to you for free, you are taking away not only money from the owner but also from his/her advertisers (if you use a PPC model, for example) and eventually from other members/users (through price increases or -- here's a stunner for you -- the eventual loss of said free resource altogether).

Even if you think, "there are not many people who do this," it's like saying, "I'm going to steal this DVD from the movie store... besides, they have tons of movies... make a lot of money... they're covered by insurance... not too many people steal from them anyway..." etc.

When he says that "Never once did I think that I would have to constantly babysit this forum" I know he's 100 per cent right.

That's the challenge with any forum you run: it can turn into an endless time sink and for Michael Fortin that's what happened. There are only so many hours in the day.

Cheers

Angela

I stumbled upon the Copywriters Board while researching the advertising practices of World Reserve Monetary Exchange. I didn't agree with the contributors' views. I published a post on the experience on Freaking Marketing. If you Google "Freaking Marketing blog" you'll see it. (Since this is my first post here, I'm not able to add links.)

I gotta agree with Bruce here.

People are gonna do whatever the hell they want with their own computer, and there is little any of us can do to stop them. Even trying seems fairly pointless too.

I don't see the average person getting upset about pop up blockers.

What's the difference between a ad-blocker or a pop up blocker?

"This forum is not a democracy. It is a privilege."

--- I think this is very applicable to WF as well.

That is a shame, but there is a Season for everything.

Warrior Forum will continue strong as long as valuable content is being shared and delivered.

Bryan

ummm... I highly doubt it...
:confused:
- Jared

Raises hand as one of the people who joined long ago, made a few posts and mostly lurked. Nobody was ever directly harsh to me, but it certainly was an intimidating place.

It must have been a hard decision for you, Michel. I know you as a very kind and sensitive, so I can absolutely see this taking a toll on you.

I wish that those "bullies" could have taken a lesson from you. You are an amazing copywriter and you're definitely proud of your talents. But that pride never translated into ego, but instead a willingness to share and teach.

I have been blessed over and over again through our personal discussions and through the information you share through your blog and other resources.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Alice

I must be in the minority as this seems obvious to me as to why the forum is closing down. Bear with me...

Michel starts a copywriting forum for copywriters to learn how to write copy, etc.. BUT.. when Michel and his staff are not the only copywriters posting to the board, you are in fact inviting your competition into your world.

When you invite the competition and competing businesses into one place, there is bound to be trouble on the horizon. Imagine all your local car dealers starting a forum to teach people to sell cars but they are allowed to advertise their own services... we know what would happen, it would be a dogfight.

Michel is a great guy and I know many of the copywriters from his forum but this was bound to happen. The old dogs didn't want to lose their business to the newcomers so they bullied err... educated and critiqued and were hard on the newbies. No biggie, I've seen it happen and I've done it in forums myself. But, this is a way to drive away the thin skinned, read.. competition.

This thread also shows what happens in forums... drama and pissing matches that will completely hijack a thread and sidetrack the original direction of the post.

I'm sorry to see your forum close Michel but I know you and I know you will make the best of this situation as you always have.

Pat

Thanks Vin, appreciate the followup, I've been to the forum and admit it's been a long time since I've visited (i'm not a copy guy) it just seemed like the obvious problem.

I can see how a few bad apples can disrupt a forum, no matter what the topic is and have a lot of respect for anyone that runs a forum and has to deal with all the drama.

Pat

Paul, I have the sinking sensation that you are trying to hold back the storm surge man...

I had never really thought about this issue (because I was unaware of such software and never probed), but your arguments are sound.

The problem with something like 'no adblockers' being a social custom, or even a specific site rule is there is no real way to communicate this nor enforce it, and even if there were, I see very little chance of people (in general) feeling any social responsibility NOT to use Adblockers as a respected social custom.

Lets face it, ads aren't something the public is looking to protect. As a copywriter who sells well into 8 figures worth of stuff online a year, I know this territory very well.

This is certainly NOT an argument in favor for Adblockers, just an observation it might be hard to stop such a movement, no matter how much you or I or anyone can argue them as being hypocritical, shortsighted, and socially incorrect.

Frankly, this whole argument has startling, even frightening ramifications because if Adblockers take hold quickly enough on a popular level, like pop-up blockers (i.e. actually built into browsers), then the consequences could be extreme for millions of advertisers, or worse.

I would be surprised if the judicial system would be able to stop it (if for example Google challenged such software use).

I'm sure there are plenty of clever enough people to provide technical counter measures though, after all, giants like Google, etc and all their brain power and deep pockets would probably want to counter such a movement if it ever happens...

The real risk though, if this ever does become popular, is in the social perception. If it becomes popular to block ads, then turns into a technical war, all of a sudden any counter measures to stop adblocking seriously risk becoming the social bad guy.

Maybe some sites would want to counter Adblock users with software that recognizes Adblocker use, and keep them from seeing any of the site content, but is this really a solution?

A more effective solution would be tiny scissors that jump out of the monitor to instantly castrate Adblocker developers and users, but I guess we'll have to wait for such "nano targeting" technology to be developed.

Oops, unnecessary below-the-belt humor. Sorry, but I figured it couldn't possibly be a big deal. :rolleyes:

My bad again, let me keep it relevant with a simple reflection...

The incredible irony and hypocrisy here is that Adblocker developers probably use advertising to sell or promote their product(s), and most Adblock users probably also use advertising to make money online!

Doh! (where's the Homer Simpson icon?)

Being called "sharp as a marble" probably comes across as a compliment to such astute thinkers.

The old Italian farmers I met when I had a country home in Italy had some great expressions. Here's one that fits now:

"He's hoeing his own foot"



Tim


P.S. I don't mean to "drift" this conversation further away from the initial thread, and I agree with Harlan, Adblockers didn't have anything to do with the CWB closing, nor did ad haters, nor ad whiners, nor anything to do with ads.

Michel listed his motivations for shutting down the board, but I see most of these reasons as symptoms, not the real cause.

There is a lot of vague finger pointing, and people who feel guilty as if they were responsible, etc, etc. but none of these are the reasons either. I suspect the real cause hasn't been addressed yet, or at least it hasn't been brought up.

Sorry to not finish this thought now - I know it sounds like an excuse, but I really gotta run - I'll come back and complete this thought as soon as I can.

Well, like a moth into a fire I had sworn off negative forum garbage, but have been following this thread since it's inception.

Been a lurker over there as well since the forum opened and I truly miss janebert and Gary's (God rest his soul) back and forth, truly one of the best and funniest dust ups that I've witnessed online. I don't know whether there was a final truce but it seemed as though there was a mutual respect towards the end.

The egos were a detractor from the wisdom that was offered by the professionals, damn shame. There's only so much of the 'I'm the bestest-of-the-bestest' hype that a sane person can handle.

Have a great Christmas season everyone!

Respectfully,
EJ