How long are you in 'danger' of losing your profits to a refund?

14 replies
Is 30 days usually the standard money back gaurantee? Not to be pessimistic but I've read this quite a few times in different threads and I'm getting the impression one must not count their eggs before they are hatched.

I did some crappy crappy high street accident claims job for a week and they aptly termed this 'clawbacks' when a lead turns out to be stale or somehow the commission gets revoked. Not sure if that is a general term in the sales scene or not.
#danger #long #losing #profits #refund
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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    It's up to each vendor to state their own guarantee period (if any).

    Vendors using Clickbank as a retailer have to offer at least 60 days, per Clickbank's rules (and have to be responsible for it without involving Clickbank if they choose to offer longer, I think, though I'm sure hardly any do).

    The general rule of thumb is that guarantee claims are roughly in inverse proportion to the length of the guarantee period offered: the longer the guarantee, the fewer the claims (contrary to what some people imagine).
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    • Profile picture of the author deertrail
      Interestingly enough, I offered a "double your money back" guarantee several years ago, but CB emailed me within days and asked me to take it down.

      - Bryan


      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      It's up to each vendor to state their own guarantee period (if any).

      Vendors using Clickbank as a retailer have to offer at least 60 days, per Clickbank's rules (and have to be responsible for it without involving Clickbank if they choose to offer longer, I think, though I'm sure hardly any do).

      The general rule of thumb is that guarantee claims are roughly in inverse proportion to the length of the guarantee period offered: the longer the guarantee, the fewer the claims (contrary to what some people imagine).
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      • Profile picture of the author Drizlek
        30 to 60 days is the most common time frame. Some people like Rikki_Fawkes mentioned will have it written down on a calendar to the day they are going to return it and never really meant to keep it.

        At 90 days I can see why that would be more appealing to some... by that time, even if they decided to return it or never even meant to keep it they will have hopefully forgotten all about the return. It also makes it easier for people to purchase a product because it makes them feel more relaxed about spending their money.

        In the end though, it's inevitable. It's going to happen. It's not pleasant, but it happens.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
    Don't be surprised if a user is paying close attention to the return date. I've had people refund CB products on day 59. It stinks, but it happens.
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  • The vendor can state what they want but legally the buyer can charge back for many months.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rex.T
      The vendor can state what they want but legally the buyer can charge back for many months.
      It's true.


      Interestingly enough, I offered a "double your money back" guarantee several years ago, but CB emailed me within days and asked me to take it down.
      In fact, you can't vary your guarantee to anything different if you're using CB, not one day more not one day less. That's the downside of it. Otherwise I would have offered 365 days guarantee.
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      • Profile picture of the author steadypay
        I know that some people are gonna try and play the system and some are grumblers.

        I don't know too much about IM yet but one thing I do think I know pretty well is human nature. As such I also know how lazy most ppl are and so even if they wanted to get a refund then they would likely put it off and put it off and end up not bothering.

        So I'd guess sure you get some slippage but I imagine the majority would not do a refund. I guess you wanna get enough sales to accommodate for some refunds as business expenses or whatever the proper business term you call it is. Of course this is my ivory tower philosophizing and not based on any evidence, at least not in the IM sphere.

        I do know some IM techniques ppl use in a specific niche where they state very clearly their money back guarantee yet if the customer does try they make it distinctly difficult for them to actually get their money back. From what I've been told from ex customers they make them jump through loads of hoops presumably in the hopes that most will give up the chase before getting their refund.

        Deertrail your double money back guarantee, with all due respect, sounds like a dumb idea . What's to stop someone from buying up every book you had then getting an immediate refund. Unless I miss something one could effectively double their money for very little effort, at your expense.
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  • Profile picture of the author wadboram
    I think the best way is get away from this trap is to offer custom services OR resale rights to products..... No Refunds
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    • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
      Originally Posted by wadboram View Post

      I think the best way is get away from this trap is to offer custom services OR resale rights to products..... No Refunds
      With Clickbank it doesn't matter if you offer money back guarantee or not. If you are selling via clickbank, you have to have a 60 day money back guarantee.
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      • Profile picture of the author donhx
        Income is the amount you receive. Profits are the amount you get to keep after expenses, returns and taxes. You don't lose "profits" when you make a refund, it's part of the cost of doing business.

        The Internet is a great way to make money, but it has these perpetual drawbacks. Once someone has downloaded the software/information product, they continue to get the full benefit of it for free when they get a refund. It's not like they can send it back. That aspect is galling, especially as the number of rip-off artists continues to climb. Some people think everything on the Internet ought to be free.

        The problem is compounded because Credit Card companies will do a refund even if you have a "no return" policy.

        There are some software programs where you can "wrap" your software/information product and disable it after a refund. It's somewhat expensive and a hassle, but you may want to look into it.

        The best insurance against refunds, IMO, if offering a high quality product at a fair price. That won't stop the rip-off artists, but it may help stop others from seeking a refund. If people believe they got value for money (no matter what the price), they are less likely to want a refund.
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    • Profile picture of the author Janet Sawyer
      Originally Posted by wadboram View Post

      I think the best way is get away from this trap is to offer custom services OR resale rights to products..... No Refunds

      Believe me, there is no way out of the chargeback trap!

      You can offer, a no refund, a 30 day or a 60 day guarantee, if the person who purchashed paid through their credit card they have up to 156 days to initiate a charge back, and when they do this, not only do you loose the initial purchase $ price, but you also get an additional charge which can be up to $35 on top.

      Fortunately there are not too many who do this, but some do, even for a piddling $7 product. Which you can prove they downloaded. --- heck go figure. Oh and the $7 product I did sell, stated that they agreed there was a no refund policy attached to it.
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  • Profile picture of the author steadypay
    I was thinking that the reciprocity principle and already having had a relationship of trust with your clients would be the/one of the best ways.

    I.e if you'd given loads of content free already through your articles and whatnot then the customer's natural instinct would be to feel bad to rip you off.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      Originally Posted by steadypay View Post

      I was thinking that the reciprocity principle and already having had a relationship of trust with your clients would be the/one of the best ways.

      I.e if you'd given loads of content free already through your articles and whatnot then the customer's natural instinct would be to feel bad to rip you off.
      Sometimes, perhaps. But it's not always as simple as this, anyway, because it's often a "three party situation" in which the person with whom the customer has the "relationship" isn't the vendor anyway, but the affiliate. I'm just saying ...
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  • Profile picture of the author steadypay
    Word up. Anyway this gives me somewhat of a better idea.

    I don't think there is any cause for me to fixate over it any more for now, better get on with taking the steps to making some sales instead .
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