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13 years ago

The problem is that people who have limiting beliefs such as those you have posted, will not be able to succeed until they change this beliefs of theirs. Its quite self-serving really. If they don't believe they can be successful, they wont make the effort because deep down in their minds they truly believe its no use to try. And if they won't make the effort, there will be no result. And when there's no result, it reinforces their beliefs that they can't be successful. So the only way to break out of the vicious cycle is to change those limiting beliefs to empowering ones

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Eric Louviere

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Daveyz

The problem is that people who have limiting beliefs such as those you have posted, will not be able to succeed until they change this beliefs of theirs. Its quite self-serving really. If they don't believe they can be successful, they wont make the effort because deep down in their minds they truly believe its no use to try. And if they won't make the effort, there will be no result. And when there's no result, it reinforces their beliefs that they can't be successful. So the only way to break out of the vicious cycle is to change those limiting beliefs to empowering ones

well said..............

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tpw

13 years ago

Some times it is easier for people to say, "I can't."

It is actually to their benefit to repeat, "I can't."

Because if they try and fail, their friends and family might laugh at them for having even tried.

Two points to take from this:

1. Why should we care if someone laughs... And,

2. If they are laughing at us, why would we ever call those people our friends anyway.

p.s. My 8-yo came home from school today, crying because his friends were laughing at his stocking cap with the funny face on it.

So I traded stocking caps with him. I told him that I did not care if people laughed at me.

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Eric Louviere

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Some times it is easier for people to say, "I can't."

It is actually to their benefit to repeat, "I can't."

Because if they try and fail, their friends and family might laugh at them for having even tried.

Two points to take from this:

1. What do I care if someone laughs... And,

2. If they are laughing at me, I would never think to call those people my friends.

Why do I feel you and me are the only one's on the warrior forum, and we are the only two having a conversation tonight? Prolly should just chat on skype. lol

Yeah mon.

Fears are huge. And it's abundant how many have that fear. fear of ridicule. It's even in Think and grow rich (did I write that book?)

FEAR of criticism.

But, also, many see the world through filters of their own. Those filters they have filter the world and everything they see into "problems"... I guess it really is how you react to things more than what happens that counts.

People who take action with faith, and then just have faith that if any obstacles or challenges appear, they have faith they can fix it. They can go around it or over it or through it and solve it. Others quit and look for the next magical $7 report.

oops, wrong thread, that's Bruce's thread.

~Your Daddy

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Louviere

Why do I feel you and me are the only one's on the warrior forum, and we are the only two having a conversation tonight? Prolly should just chat on skype. lol

~Your Daddy

Probably because we are the only two nuts in the Western Hemisphere still working at 1:30am... LOL

And to prove that I really don't care if people laugh at me, I put on my new stocking hat for you:

p.s. Let em laugh...

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Eric Louviere 13 years ago

haha

that's funny

how can anyone with a hat like that be a stud?

hahaha

you got cooties
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- jan roos 13 years ago
  
  Thats why I say to succeed in IM you need to have the right mindset. You need to believe in yourself and get'er done but then again you don't need that just for IM. It's something you need in life in general.
  
  Cheers
  
  Ps. Eric must be in a good mood tonight. I think Alan must put a beer in the smiley face section here so I can award him with a cold one.
  
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Kev3l173

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

p.s. Let em laugh...

seriously that hat is awesome i want one

idk why anyone would laugh at it

its epic

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi Dennis,

Thanks again for the reply, and also thanks for putting another angle on the point I was trying to make - you said (regarding the sinking ship analogy) -

The optimist that you portray is one that seems completely dismissive of circumstances.

This is exactly what I was getting at, regarding the dangerous P.M.A. books and in internet marketing itself.

Whenever this topic comes up, people seem to start quoting almost directly from the masses of P.M.A. books which in my opinion, go way over the top and do more harm than good.

EG 'One only has to believe it, to conceive it.'

How many times do we see made up, but probably reasonably accurate estimates of a 90ish% failure rate in business/online business?

So combine this with an attitude that says 'everyone can succeed if only they believe in themselves' and we have a recipe for a forum FULL of people wondering why they are failing, when they did everything that was required (IE believing in themselves), along with a load of people acting like experts and selling hyped up rubbish after two weeks in the business (when they really should spend more time training to be an 'expert') and others continually pumping their life-savings into a pipe-dream (because they falsely believe that they can't fail and they have fallen for the hype of the others).

In my opinion, this is partly why a large part of the marketplace is a constant train-wreck of false-hope, inflated egos and mass confusion.

Therefore perhaps some of the perceived negativity around here is actually useful advice from helpful realists and perhaps it's actually depressing to see that helpful advice silenced by the 'completely dismissive of circumstances positivity police' aided and abetted by the 'sell as much as possible to the clueless desperados' clan.

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

So combine this with an attitude that says 'everyone can succeed if only they believe in themselves' and we have a recipe for a forum FULL of people wondering why they are failing, when they did everything that was required (IE believing in themselves), along with a load of people acting like experts and selling hyped up rubbish after two weeks in the business (when they really should spend more time training to be an 'expert') and others continually pumping their life-savings into a pipe-dream (because they falsely believe that they can't fail and they have fallen for the hype of the others).

In my opinion, this is partly why a large part of the marketplace is a constant train-wreck of false-hope, inflated egos and mass confusion.

While I can appreciate your wanting to inject a dose of reality into the vagaries of internet marketing, there is a little flaw in your line of thought, especially when you imply that there are plenty of people who have done everything that was required. Believing in themselves is but one part of the process, and it needs to be backed up by consistent and massive action, and this is where the majority of people fail miserably.

When you probe deeper into the situations of these failures on the forum, you inevitably discover more often than not that they've been brainwashed into thinking that IM is "pushbutton" easy, and they gave up at the first sign of failure, OR they were jumping from program to program without any focus or consistency.

While having a positive mindset is definitely a necessity to succeed in IM, you need to back that up with positive action. Merely saying, "I believe in myself and will become a raging success in IM" isn't going to do a thing for you if you don't follow through with consistent, focused action.

You see, talk is cheap, but action isn't. No one is denying that IM is difficult here, and simply because of that you already know that a positive mindset is all but mandatory for you to successfully tackle those obstacles and hindrances that are inevitably coming your way. The pessimist/realist is probably going to give up at the first signs of trouble, whereas the optimist will press on and find ways to learn from that opportunity (otherwise classified as 'failure' by the pessimists) and get around it somehow, through experimentation, testing and resolute implementation.

Paul

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ExRat 13 years ago

Hi Paulie888,

Thanks, but you missed my meaning.

There was an element of sarcasm when I said -

when they did everything that was required (IE believing in themselves)

If you notice I prefaced this with -

So combine this with an attitude that says 'everyone can succeed if only they believe in themselves' and we have a recipe for

You're agreeing with me. IE - It takes more than just a positive attitude.

Plus -

The pessimist/realist is probably going to give up at the first signs of trouble

...one of my other points was that the realist knows when to give up in the right circumstances, whereas the blindly positive person keeps trying to make a bad idea work and as we have discussed, there are quite a few bad ideas being sold as good ones, not least by those ultra-positive people who believe that the only thing you need to succeed is positive self-belief and positive action - as referenced above (#66) -

Think positive paired with positive actions. And everything will work perfect.

If this were true, there would only be two types of information product -

1) how to be positive

2) how to take positive action

Everything else would be null and void, because (apparently) that is all anyone needs for everything to work perfectly.

It is quite shocking when success is as simple as a 1,2 learning process, everyone complicates things with all of this useless stuff about testing and tracking, market research, systems management, product fulfillment, customer service etc.

/continued-sarcasm
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Black Hat Cat

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Probably because we are the only two nuts in the Western Hemisphere still working at 1:30am... LOL

And to prove that I really don't care if people laugh at me, I put on my new stocking hat for you:

p.s. Let em laugh...

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Dennis Gaskill

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Louviere

But, also, many see the world through filters of their own. Those filters they have filter the world and everything they see into "problems"... I guess it really is how you react to things more than what happens that counts.

You hit on the key right there. Everyone filters the world differently because we all have individually unique experiences, beliefs, education, emotions, thought habits, and so on. That's why no one can truly solve someone else's mindset problems.

Even psychiatrists and psychologists just listen, question, and offer suggestions -- their clients still have to work through their own problems.

The best we can do is help identify the problems and offer direction, but those lacking the proper mindset still have to work it out themselves. They must, in the end, be responsible for their own progress ... or lack of same.

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Eric Louviere

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

You hit on the key right there. Everyone filters the world differently because we all have individually unique experiences, beliefs, education, emotions, thought habits, and so on. That's why no one can truly solve someone else's mindset problems.

Even psychiatrists and psychologists just listen, question, and offer suggestions -- their clients still have to work through their own problems.

The best we can do is help identify the problems and offer direction, but those lacking the proper mindset still have to work it out themselves. They must, in the end, be responsible for their own progress ... or lack of same.

Dennis, man, dude, man, that was brilliant! Thanks for posting that. You almost made my night, but Bill's hat was hard to beat. Seriously though, you are RIGHT! You cant change that stuff... you can only suggest and hope they figure it out and work through it themselves. bravo!

Eric

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Eric Louviere

13 years ago

now I'm wondering what bad habits I need to change TO BE EVEN BETTER!

naw, impossible, you can only get so good

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi Eric,

now I'm wondering what bad habits I need to change TO BE EVEN BETTER!

naw, impossible, you can only get so good

Here's an idea.

All those people you mentioned -

Bucket Two:

Those who are jaded, pissed at the world, look at the past, dwell on issues and problems and challenges... such as: technical, product creation, traffic, no money, lack of credibility, lack, lack and more lack (lack and problems everywhere).

As well as helping them to change their beliefs so that they can 'do this IM thang' - you can also try and understand what it is in their lives, or in society itself, that led them to become so messed up in the first place - that would make someone who is already great even better.

If someone were to understand these things to a great extent and to go even further than that and work out how to eradicate these problems completely, they could apply basic principles they have found in IM (IE a simple problem solving piece of information can easily be put in front of millions of people very quickly) and in effect, actually change the world and make it a better place for everyone.

The interesting aspect of this is that it is more than likely that the problems faced by those people (those ones with a lack of belief and a general 'lack' attitude) did not just arrive by chance - they are more than likely caused directly by a relatively small group of people in the world who are so concerned with hoarding all of the wealth for themselves that they keep themselves 'up' by keeping everyone else 'down'.

So what is interesting is that a lesson learned by those seeking to earn money could be used to solve massive problems caused by those who control (virtually) all of the money, who have taken their plans a little bit too far - they already have more than enough money, but now they want the whole world as their own personal playground and in order to do so, need to destroy a huge chunk of the population and in the process of trying to do this, they have created societies which destroy people from within - by removing their hope, their belief and creating a 'lack attitude' within the society as a whole.

How much of a 'stud' would someone be who looked beyond their 'own backyard' and found a way to help the majority to enjoy their life and to live with hope and to revel in the natural abundance which is all around us?

In my opinion, the first step in making the switch in this direction, and therefore the first 'bad habit to remove' is along the lines of 'bragging' or looking down on those less fortunate than oneself who find themselves in this category -

Bucket Two:

Those who are jaded, pissed at the world, look at the past, dwell on issues and problems and challenges... such as: technical, product creation, traffic, no money, lack of credibility, lack, lack and more lack (lack and problems everywhere).

Sometimes they need a helping hand, sometimes they need a kick up the arse, but either way, we know deep inside ourselves whether we are truly caring about their (people we don't know and have never met - fellow humans) predicament and wanting to help, or looking down on them and scoffing at their inability to deal with the inevitable sh*t that comes cascading down the pipe.

That's how people can become even better, in my opinion - by giving a sh*t about everyone else and the consequences of our actions and by rejecting the idea that having as much money as possible is the only thing worth striving for and in particular - by looking out for those who are less fortunate than ourselves and trying to redress the balance by giving them a helping hand. Once 'the world' stops caring, 'the world' is finished.

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bizman413

13 years ago

If I may be so bold to say. That what changed my "luck" in the IM world was when I read a bit of a certain book called The Secret Code to Success. OR something of that matter. He uses things called Afformations. I started using them and things are really turning around.

Kind of goes along with what you guys are already saying.

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Dennis Gaskill

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bizman413

If I may be so bold to say. That what changed my "luck" in the IM world was when I read a bit of a certain book called The Secret Code to Success. OR something of that matter. He uses things called Afformations. I started using them and things are really turning around.

Kind of goes along with what you guys are already saying.

Do you mean affirmations. If so, what you did was what we have been talking about -- you used ideas given to you to change your beliefs, but you worked through those changes yourself. You are the hero in your own story. The book you mentioned was a tool you used. A good tool, but still just a tool.

Yes, people can change their beliefs. They have to want to though, and not everyone does. Congratulations to you! You have taken a giant step toward self-mastery.

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bizman413

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Do you mean affirmations. If so, what you did was what we have been talking about -- you used ideas given to you to change your beliefs, but you worked through those changes yourself. You are the hero in your own story. The book you mentioned was a tool you used. A good tool, but still just a tool.

Yes, people can change their beliefs. They have to want to though, and not everyone does. Congratulations to you! You have taken a giant step toward self-mastery.

Actually, I believe what he calls them are Afformations. I know, it's not even a real word. But it's a different kind of concept. I won't go into explanation, anyone who wants to know more about it can do it in their own time.

Thanks for the encouraging words though. I honestly don't know if you know how much that means to me. I've been on forums quite a bit lately and mostly all people want to do is bash you. They are just lurking waiting for someone to make a mistake. It's nice to hear some words of encouragement every once in a while

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Do you mean affirmations. If so, what you did was what we have been talking about -- you used ideas given to you to change your beliefs, but you worked through those changes yourself. You are the hero in your own story. The book you mentioned was a tool you used. A good tool, but still just a tool.

Yes, people can change their beliefs. They have to want to though, and not everyone does. Congratulations to you! You have taken a giant step toward self-mastery.

Dennis, you're absolutely right. At the end of the day, no matter what resources or material or mentors we have on our hands, they're merely tools that could give us the much needed push to change our mindset and reach success in IM. However, this mindset change has to come from within, no one else can provide this impetus except ourselves.

Perhaps a simple analogy might be fitting for people who still don't get it. Think of books, mentors and any other resources you may have as tools that help you get the job done. In the case of a tennis player, one of his tools is his racket. You could be supplied with a better tennis racket that gives you more control over the ball and hit it faster, but you still have to supply the expertise and skill to hit the ball properly. That expertise and skill can only come from you, and no one else can "give" you that.

It's the same in the IM world as well. Your coaches/mentors are your "tools" that will help you get the job done faster and more easily. They can provide the experience and guidance that will help you reach success faster and change your mindset, but the impetus to change it is still something that has to come from within you, as no one else can give you that. You have to truly want this change yourself.

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Richard Van

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

TPW - Two points to take from this:

1. Why should we care if someone laughs... And,

2. If they are laughing at us, why would we ever call those people our friends anyway.

p.s. My 8-yo came home from school today, crying because his friends were laughing at his stocking cap with the funny face on it.

So I traded stocking caps with him. I told him that I did not care if people laughed at me.

I'm probably not going to add much of value here but on the whole subject of worrying too much about what people think of you, I heard this quote recently. No idea who it's from but it makes a good point..

"It doesn't matter what others think of you, it's none of your bloody business anyway"

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi Richard,

I read a slightly different version. It was in a book about a successful entrepreneur, although I can't remember which - possibly the guy Napoleon Hill worked for?

One of his workers came into his office and was about to tell him some gossip that another one of his workers had said about him - he cut the person off before they could finish and said -

'What people say about me is none of my business.'

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Richard Van

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi Richard,

I read a slightly different version. It was in a book about a successful entrepreneur, although I can't remember which - possibly the guy Napoleon Hill worked for?

One of his workers came into his office and was about to tell him some gossip that another one of his workers had said about him - he cut the person off before they could finish and said -

'What people say about me is none of my business.'

Hello Roger,

Yes, it was some time ago when I saw it but it's stuck.

I think over the years I've gradually modified/*******ised it, to include the "bloody" bit.

I'm pretty useless at remembering exactly what the quote is, I tend to just keep the main point remembered.

Hope you're well sir.

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Dennis Gaskill

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bizman413

Thanks for the encouraging words though. I honestly don't know if you know how much that means to me. I've been on forums quite a bit lately and mostly all people want to do is bash you. They are just lurking waiting for someone to make a mistake. It's nice to hear some words of encouragement every once in a while

It's kind of sad, isn't it? I suppose we're all guilty of being less than charitable from time to time, but it's just as easy to lift someone up as to knock them down, but only lifting them up makes both parties feel good.

Originally Posted by Richard Van

I'm probably not going to add much of value here but on the whole subject of worrying too much about what people think of you, I heard this quote recently. No idea who it's from but it makes a good point..

"It doesn't matter what others think of you, it's none of your bloody business anyway"

I was listening to a talk show on the radio as I was working several months ago when the host asked the guest what he thought others would think of the somewhat controversial idea he had just spoke about.

The answer he gave made me stop what I was doing and think about it. He said, "It's none of my business what others think of me."

I can't recall who it was, but you're right, it's a good point.

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theemperor

13 years ago

A good coach should be able to help someone who is jaded become more enthusiastic. I've seen a number of posts on here with tips on how to motivate yourself and they have helped me. I'm sure a good coach with experience could help such a person.

Perhaps I am getting the terms "coach" and "mentor" mixed up again though

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by theemperor

A good coach should be able to help someone who is jaded become more enthusiastic. I've seen a number of posts on here with tips on how to motivate yourself and they have helped me. I'm sure a good coach with experience could help such a person.

Perhaps I am getting the terms "coach" and "mentor" mixed up again though

Definitely, that's what a coach is there for.

However, as I've stated above, the person has to consciously want to change his or her mindset, because I've found from experience that far too many just want to wallow in self-pity; they take comfort in their negativity and don't want to be separated from it.

Many don't want to work through their issues and overcome them, as in their opinion this is just too much work. What they want is a coach that can magically change their thoughts/attitudes with the flip of a switch, but as I've mentioned a coach is only a tool and a resource. They cannot make you change something that you stubbornly want to cling to.

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profitsforall

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

I'm probably not going to add much of value here but on the whole subject of worrying too much about what people think of you, I heard this quote recently. No idea who it's from but it makes a good point..

"It doesn't matter what others think of you, it's none of your bloody business anyway"

One of my favourite quotes - although until I googled it just now had never known who said it.

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do."
Olin Miller

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by profitsforall

One of my favourite quotes - although until I googled it just now had never known who said it.

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do."
Olin Miller

Great quote, we typically tend to have overactive imaginations that concoct scenarios far worse than what is actually happening.

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Andyhenry

13 years ago

Hey Eric,

It's almost like you're saying that people have a choice about how to respond to things and that they actually control their beliefs. Surely that would mean that they've always had this control? and that since they can control how they respond and have the option of choosing to believe different (more positive) things about what they can have in their life they are accountable for the results they get.

How many negative people that are only seeing bad results are likely to want to hear that it's been in their control the whole time - and they're accountable not only for what they could have but for what they have had.

That's the irony of this whole concept - people can only change their results once they accept that those results are in their control, which for people who have had poor results is often not something they're prepared to hear. It's like an alcoholic admitting their problem before they can help themselves get better.

Andy

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tamalee

13 years ago

well said ....

"Until you become responsible for your life ... and realize things are in your control ...even if its just your attitude .... you will always remain a victim to your life's circumstances ..."

What you expect deep down and what you get are usually a match ... if you expect to fail you always will ... but who wants to live life like that ? Sad ...
We always have a choice ... even if its just how we respond...

Love this post ~ Very Interesting topic !

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tamalee

well said ....

"Until you become responsible for your life ... and realize things are in your control ...even if its just your attitude .... you will always remain a victim to your life's circumstances ..."

What you expect deep down and what you get are usually a match ... if you expect to fail you always will ... but who wants to live life like that ? Sad ...
We always have a choice ... even if its just how we respond...

Love this post ~ Very Interesting topic !

I think this is one of the most difficult concepts for negative people to grasp. They tend to be fatalistic in their outlook, and therefore cannot seem to comprehend that they're actually in control of their lives and their outcomes. This fundamental difference in philosophy makes it really hard for them to make any breakthroughs in this area.

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dave147

13 years ago

Remember the book "You'll See it When You Believe it" by Dr Wayne Dyer ?

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paulie888 13 years ago

Originally Posted by dave147

Remember the book "You'll See it When You Believe it" by Dr Wayne Dyer ?

Unfortunately, there are many skeptics out there who refuse to buy into this type of mindset. With that said though, this is exactly the sort of mindset that is required to succeed on a large scale in IM.
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pagerank

13 years ago

Hi Everyone,
As you can tell I am knew member of this forum, although I am not new to IM. I aren't sure why it took me so long to join this forum as I have been reading it, on and off for years. Other than I guess it is a confidence thing. I guess that is why I got into IM, I could hide behind my net connection and not really face people. I am not sure why I ever felt this way, I grew up shy I guess.

I did "ok" online, but things really took off when I decided that I needed to face the real world. I went offline. My offline enterprises succeeded through some hardwork and judicious help of the people around me so I came back online and found my online life was better than it ever was.

I was willing to try different things, willing to accept other peoples point of view, accepted that other people might actually have better ideas than me, so maybe I should listen! Selective listening online does wonders for your bank balance!

It is all to easy to get locked into your own little world and become jaded when the plans you made don't work out how you wanted them to. It is hard to admit other people are right, but it is so much harder to admit that you are wrong.

When you can see that you are fallible and that other people might actually be in a position to help you! When you finally come to that conclusion, then you are ready for the GURU!

Anyway that is how it was for me. I decided to make a change for myself and my young family. Now online I am happy and offline I am very happy.

Thanks to a lot of people on this forum!

Thanks

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PaulSch

13 years ago

A few months ago I posted a question on another forum (grovelling apologies for ever going there) - "Are you afraid of Success?" and I was amazed at the responses it got.

The general conclusion I drew from it was that there was a huge percentage of people trying to 'make it' online who really didn't want to succeed.
They threw out answers about 'staffing problems', lack of knowledge about accounting/book-keeping, fear of too much money (lol) and many more negatives.

None of these people seemed to have any self belief but seemed to be 'hiding' behind pointless fears and I truly couldn't see any way of changing their mindset.

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by PaulSch

A few months ago I posted a question on another forum (grovelling apologies for ever going there) - "Are you afraid of Success?" and I was amazed at the responses it got.

The general conclusion I drew from it was that there was a huge percentage of people trying to 'make it' online who really didn't want to succeed.
They threw out answers about 'staffing problems', lack of knowledge about accounting/book-keeping, fear of too much money (lol) and many more negatives.

None of these people seemed to have any self belief but seemed to be 'hiding' behind pointless fears and I truly couldn't see any way of changing their mindset.

It's very obvious that the majority of people are giving themselves every excuse under the sun to fail before they even start. They rationalize that they cannot possibly succeed through the concoction of these excuses, and from the ones you've mentioned it appears like they're petrified of massive success (I feel these excuses mentioned are actually great problems to have when you really examine them, as they are obvious results of being very successful!)

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi,

In my opinion it's actually a little bit too simplistic to put things down to just - 'some people are positive and through this can influence their results positively' and 'some people just can't' - or 'can't be bothered' - or -

They tend to be fatalistic in their outlook, and therefore cannot seem to comprehend that they're actually in control of their lives and their outcomes.

or -

It's very obvious that the majority of people are giving themselves every excuse under the sun to fail before they even start

It's not obvious at all. You're just choosing to see it that way despite what IS obvious. This is why so many 'self-help' books are useless because they are based upon the false premise that 'I only have to think positively and I can have everything I ever wanted.'

If that was the case, why is the mental health aspect of the pharmaceutical industry such a booming, multi-billion dollar industry?

To a certain degree people ARE in control of their destiny and to a certain degree, they are not.

If a man spends many years working his socks off, farming the land, building up a business, saving his profits to reinvest and expand his lands - etc etc - then one day a bunch of powerful people ride into town, kill his family and steal his money and land - if that man then struggles to get going again, do we chastise him for being a loser or do we see that it's not all black and white?

What about if his downfall is down to a meteorite crashing down on his farm? Was he not thinking positively enough?

We spend many of our formative years being completely OUT of control of our destiny, utterly dependant on our parents to look after us.

Then we are placed into the hands of the state to protect and educate us.

Many different things happen to children through those years, some of which will affect them negatively for the rest of their lives NO MATTER how hard they try and beat it.

Yes, I agree that whatever happens to us, we are ultimately responsible for doing the best we can to be positive and succeed despite any difficulties.

But to look at it as simplistically as you are either -

* positive and do well

* negative and don't do well

is simply blinkered, philistine pig-ignorance. Life is way more complicated than that and it can take a lifetime just for an individual to understand himself and come to terms with the world he lives in and the 'rules' that govern it - which incidentally, might be an entirely different world and set of rules than the one his parents were born into just a few decades before.

If one were to take most of this thread at face value, then almost everyone is in agreement. You just have to 'be positive' and 'believe' to be successful and NOT deliberately scupper yourself.

In that case, it was nice knowing you all, because none of you will be here next year, because you'll all be retired, sitting on the beach without a care in the world sipping pina coladas and twirling your well-groomed moustaches.

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Dennis Gaskill

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi,
This is why so many 'self-help' books are useless because they are based upon the false premise that 'I only have to think positively and I can have everything I ever wanted.'

If that was the case, why is the mental health aspect of the pharmaceutical industry such a booming, multi-billion dollar industry?

I agree many self-help books oversimplify things. In part, that's because people want easy answers. The more complicated their problems, the more attracted they are to easy. In one sense, you could say the self-help industry is giving the market what it asks for.

And, in at least one sense, that's a good thing because they are planting seeds that, in the ripening of time, may come to fruition. Some will reap the benefits, others will not. They do provide hope to many, and in some cases, that hope can be a lifeline.

The pharma industry succeeds in this area for many reasons. Perhaps the most obvious one is that most people do not actively monitor their thinking and do not try to intentionally control the polarity of their thoughts. They will continue to have a large market into the foreseeable future whether positive thinking works or not, and it has been shown to be beneficial over and over.

To a certain degree people ARE in control of their destiny and to a certain degree, they are not.

If a man spends many years working his socks off, farming the land, building up a business, saving his profits to reinvest and expand his lands - etc etc - then one day a bunch of powerful people ride into town, kill his family and steal his money and land - if that man then struggles to get going again, do we chastise him for being a loser or do we see that it's not all black and white?

What about if his downfall is down to a meteorite crashing down on his farm? Was he not thinking positively enough?

With all due respect, Roger, I think you got off track here. Unless I missed something, the discussion has been about mindset, and giving people the tools they need to control that which is, or could be, in their control. Obviously murder and meteors are outside the scope of that discussion. Because some things may be outside of our control doesn't not mean having the right mindset does not work or is not valuable.

We spend many of our formative years being completely OUT of control of our destiny, utterly dependant on our parents to look after us.

Then we are placed into the hands of the state to protect and educate us.

Many different things happen to children through those years, some of which will affect them negatively for the rest of their lives NO MATTER how hard they try and beat it.

Exactly right! We don't even know where all our beliefs come from because many are formed before we reach the age of reason. Some are already ingrained before we start school. We CAN, however, change our limiting beliefs, and we can do so without identifying the beliefs that hold us back. We just have to know what we want to be different.

The science behind reprogramming beliefs and thought habits is quite fascinating. There is no reason to accept that "we are what we are" when we what we are is not what we want to be. We recreate who we are every day by thinking the same thoughts and carrying the same attitudes into each day that we had before -- but if we purposely change our thoughts to more constructive ones, and we purposely choose a more beneficial attitude, we can become more of what we want to become. In doing so, what we don't want atrophies. It does take time and effort, perseverance if you will.

If one were to take most of this thread at face value, then almost everyone is in agreement. You just have to 'be positive' and 'believe' to be successful and NOT deliberately scupper yourself.

I can only speak for myself, but that's not what I was saying. Life is more complex than that, but by being positive and believing you can succeed gives you a much better chance of succeeding than being negative and believing you can't succeed, don't you think?

In the end, we may not be able to control what goes on outside of us, but we can learn to control our thinking we can choose what our attitude is going to be, and how we respond to adversity. This gives us a better chance to succeed. To dismiss positive thinking is not helpful, in my opinion.

It would be more helpful to discuss why positive thinking alone may not take you where you want to go. Things such as making conscious decisions about what kind of person you want to be, deciding what you want to accomplish in life, creating a plan for getting there, taking action, and getting our ego out of our own way, for example. It's not that positive thinking doesn't work so much as it's that these are the kind of things many people are missing. They see positive thinking as step one and don't realize there is a step two, step three, etc.

That's my take, anyway. Have a great day.

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Frank Donovan 13 years ago

Hi Roger,

Originally Posted by ExRat

...is simply blinkered, philistine pig-ignorance.

Hehe. Well, what can you expect from such non creative garbage?

(Sorry. Couldn't let that reference go unacknowledged )

I don't pay much attention to the manifest mantra crowd, so I can't comment on what they're currently preaching about PMA. But, to me, there's a distinct difference between positive thinking and blind optimism.

A positive attitude can help you persevere with the actions necessary for success and keep you focused when things aren't quite going to plan. But you still have to couple it with positive action.

Oh. And correctly define their attitude towards their tenants.

Frank
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tpw

13 years ago

The quote that stands in my mind is to the effect of:

Most people spend their entire lives trying to fake it until they make it, to impress the people around them.

Those who have made it don't care what you you think about them.

Actually, I heard this from Ron LeGrand.

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Sandra Martinez 13 years ago

IM is not the universal solution, some people are just not cut to be an entrepreneur. And it is OK.

Some are artists, some make great employees.

Marketing is meant to cone the art of selling; it is in the core of some as the only and final goal, but not all. Some people actually have to create, grow or build those things to be sold.

Some of those on group 2 know they are in the wrong place, but try to make it anyway because they need/want money. It is a sacrifice by itself.

The path to success for them lie someplace else.

What would be interesting is to identify those that are trainable from starters and don´t take money out of those who can´t. It is actually very easy to do.

But, of course... where is the money? exactly in leaching group 2... those who go from magical solution to magical solution without finding what they are looking for.

Sandra
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Martin2010

13 years ago

Most top so called gurus always try and pitch wherever possible that the negative voice inside your head is the demon and you should never listen to it.

In my opinion this is why they succeed in making us folk out the kind of money that we do and it's got nothing to do with the product itself but to change the mindset of how we work.

I would love for someone to answer all of the above and then say you can get all of this for free but you know it's never gonna happen as there's always a catch.

IM is IM and your never going to get away from the built up sales pitches, the best products in the wrold and you must have this product because if you don't your going to fail but at the end of the day it's purely down to the individual and their outlook.

You've also got to give them tremendous credit as they are simply fooling those who follow into believing they are going to crack the IM world but in truth without those people putting in some serious graft then it's not going to work.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin2010

Most top so called gurus always try and pitch wherever possible that the negative voice inside your head is the demon and you should never listen to it.

In my opinion this is why they succeed in making us folk out the kind of money that we do and it's got nothing to do with the product itself but to change the mindset of how we work.

I would love for someone to answer all of the above and then say you can get all of this for free but you know it's never gonna happen as there's always a catch.

IM is IM and your never going to get away from the built up sales pitches, the best products in the wrold and you must have this product because if you don't your going to fail but at the end of the day it's purely down to the individual and their outlook.

You've also got to give them tremendous credit as they are simply fooling those who follow into believing they are going to crack the IM world but in truth without those people putting in some serious graft then it's not going to work.

Few people who sell products to IMers are in the business of "fooling people into buying".

Those looking to "fool" their market are "fooling themselves" into thinking they have a long-term business model.

IM isn't a fool's game of fools selling to fools.

Most products you will find online, that have been designed for the IM community, are products that will point the way to certain types of success.

But until the person consuming the information follows that education with action, no success will be forthcoming.

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi tpw,

Few people who sell products to IMers are in the business of "fooling people into buying".

[snip]

Most products you will find online, that have been designed for the IM community, are products that will point the way to certain types of success.

....and of course, this is just your opinion, one which some may disagree with.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi tpw,

Few people who sell products to IMers are in the business of "fooling people into buying".

[snip]

Most products you will find online, that have been designed for the IM community, are products that will point the way to certain types of success.

....and of course, this is just your opinion, one which some may disagree with.

If you honestly believe my comments to be wrong, then you are standing in a smaller pond than I am, looking into a world with more fools than legitimate business owners.

Expand your horizons, and step outside your current existence.

The IM world is much bigger than many of us imagine.

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi tpw,

Interesting point of view, but yet again, it's your opinion stated as if it were fact. I'm not even standing in the same/a similar pond as/to you!

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi tpw,

Interesting point of view, but yet again, it's your opinion stated as fact.

LOL

And you are stating that your more pessimistic viewpoint might be more valid than my more optimistic viewpoint.

It is still just your opinion that I am wrong, stated as if your opinion might could be more honest and realistic than my opinion.

Originally Posted by ExRat

I'm not even standing in the same/a similar pond as/to you!

Edited, nice.

Maybe not in the same or similar pond outside the WF, no argument there.

But the point of view you are expressing in one that many people inside the Warrior Forum say about the Warrior Forum. LOL

And if you are only looking at the world through the Warrior Forum goggles, then you would only be seeing a small part of the bigger picture.

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi tpw,

And you are stating that your more pessimistic viewpoint might be more valid than my more optimistic viewpoint.

No - I simply pointed out that what you stated as if it were fact, was in fact your opinion and that some disagree with it. Absolutely nothing at all about whether mine was more valid.

It is still just your opinion that I am wrong, stated as if your opinion might could be more honest and realistic than my opinion.

Strictly speaking, I didn't even suggest that my opinion was that you were wrong, although if someone took my comment as an implication of that, I won't try and change their mind.

What's the difference between pessimism and realism?

It depends entirely on the attitude of the person making the judgement - the most positive person in the world might see everyone else as more pessimistic than them and vice-versa.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi tpw,

No - I simply pointed out that what you stated as if it were fact, was in fact your opinion and that some disagree with it. Absolutely nothing at all about whether mine was more valid.

Strictly speaking, I didn't even suggest that my opinion was that you were wrong, although if someone took my comment as an implication of that, I won't try and change their mind.

What's the difference between pessimism and realism?

It depends entirely on the attitude of the person making the judgement - the most positive person in the world might see everyone else as more pessimistic than them and vice-versa.

Yes, many people disagree with me frequently and some disagree vehemently.

Not a big deal.

And strictly speaking, I guess you did not actually say I was "wrong".

In my little corner of the world, I am one of the most optimistic people I know. So on the whole, most every person I know is more pessimistic than I.

Some people would perhaps suggest that someone as optimistic as I am is simply too oblivious to notice the world around me. And that may be true.

But, right or wrong, I will always believe that the majority of people are honest, hard-working people who care about always doing the right thing.

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Dan C. Rinnert 13 years ago

You know, plenty of industries have some amount of questionable salespeople offering products of dubious quality. They have a sales pitch good enough to dump something on you and take the money and run. Their product might be great when you see the demo. You may buy it and it works great for a couple weeks--months even. Then, something breaks and that's when you learn you've been stuck with a stinking pile of domesticated canine excrement.

But that doesn't change the fact that most in that industry sell products that do as they advertise, which in turn sometimes makes it easier for the sub-par product peddlers to push their wares.

However, even the ones that make the best products in the world still encounter people that can't figure out why their credit card won't fit in their PMCIA slot on their computer so they can pay for the Xbox they want to buy on Amazon.com.

And, those people will probably cry that they got ripped off by Apple/HP/Toshiba/Sony/etc. for selling them a defective computer. Then, they'll end up buying a cheap computer from some no-name cheap-o computer company, find out the credit card slot doesn't work on it either and conclude that the entire computer industry is fraught with con-artists.

Mix con-artists and the computer illiterate and you wind up with plenty of people thinking the online world is out to get them. The IM niche is no different, except here you also have to include people that think there is some magic formula whereby they can get rich, overnight, simply by reading an eBook and doing no work whatsoever. Sure, sometimes the sales pitch may promise that, but people should be smart enough to sort out unbelievable claims from believable claims.

Of course, some people may have stumbled onto actual ways of making big bucks with little effort and are willing to sell that knowledge. And, that there are such products out there makes it easier for the questionable sellers to make the same kinds of claims and get buyers. And then we're back in the same vicious circle where this post started.
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- WhamSoft 13 years ago
  
  A lot of people have the "I can't attitude", but lucky for me I have the "I can attitude" and I'll try at everything and if "I can't" then I'll get someone else who can.
  
  I see every challenge as a test and I have to pass the test to get to the next level, it's really just one big never ending game.
  
  Lee
  
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  Michael Shook 13 years ago
  
  It has been my experience that there are no buckets into which to put people. That is only a convenient way to group people so that it appears that whatever they think or do can be addressed by a system instead of individually.
  
  There is nothing wrong with grouping people, we do it all they time in our daily lives so we don't have to spend all day and night figuring out how to deal with each person who comes along.
  
  Where this system does go awry is when people self-identify with an external set of characteristics and decide that a pre-made solution is the best for them. Often for a problem, they have never heard of or have ever contemplated having before.
  
  That is what happenes in IM when people self-identify themselves as newbies. They start thinking of themselves in a certain way, and other people start thinking of them in that way as well. instead of as individuals, who have already lived their lives outside of IM without ever knowing anyhting about the IM world at all.
  
  With most superficial relationships this works really well and we get to use the majority of our thinking energy for ourselves instead of trying to figure out what other people are thinking. That is the major benefit to not caring what other peole are thinking about you. You don't have to waste your energy thinking about that.
  
  As far as positive thinking goes, there are a couple of meanings of that word that are often mixed together. These meanings are mixed together by famous authors and lots of other people too.
  
  In its essence, one meaning of positive, means having things you consider good in your life. And negative means having things you think are bad. This is a common and very accurate way to use these words.
  
  The other meaning of positive is more like the operant conditioning idea where positive means something is added and negative means something is taken away. Like positive reinforcement means you get a reward of something you want for doing something, and negative reinforcement means you get a reward by someone taking something bad away from you.
  
  In general, with this second way of thinking about positive and the world as a whole, anything you add to your life is done in a positive sense. So whatever it is you add is a positive. It doesn't matter if what you are adding is a good thing or not, it just means you added it. This lets people who are always hard luck cases keep adding crap into their lives and wondering why their lives suck.
  
  They are indeed practicing positive thinking. They are just adding things they don't want instead of things they do.
  
  For adding things you do want into your life it is way easier to pay attention to the things you do want rather than pay attention to the things you do not want.
  
  If you are a snowboarder, you know this for a fact. if you are going down the mountain under the lift, you want to focus on the open spaces in between the supports for the lift. Because for sure, if you are paying attention to the supports, those are the things you are going to run into.
  
  It would be good to add here, that this is all my opinion.
  
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Magic Johnson 13 years ago

It's hard to change the mindset of a extremist terrorists.

I believe that is the same for people in IM that has excuses, don't believe in themself and just don't follow advice or get nothing done.

But to some point, they are right. There are a lot of fluff out there to fall for.

There trust to somebody is low, after getting burned a million times.

Newbies must learn that they can buy endless amounts of make money products but unless they put their knowledge in to action. It's worthless.

Buy a domain name. Hire a desginer. Look what works for other people in your niche. Get started.

It's important too to follow honest role models that tells the truth on IM.

IM is 90% fluff and wannabe advice. The best advice can be found free on blogs like Shoemoney.com, JohnChow.com, Smartpassiveincome.com, Problogger.net, Seomoz.org, entrepreneurs-journey.com/.

Stop following gurus and start to follow people that don't have product launches every three month and work in gangs trying to bang new newbies creditcard.

Just some friendly advice. Your first question to tell those you coach is....How many times has you been burned? Don't you think?
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sanssecret

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Few people who sell products to IMers are in the business of "fooling people into buying".

Really?

Your experience is obviously very different to mine. Admittedly you've been in the game a lot longer, (:p) and maybe there wasn't as much hype and BS around when you first started, but from what I've seen, there are a LOT of people selling products whose sole purpose is to fool people into buying stuff. Take a look at some of the sales pages out there. Unless of course, it's the same few people doing it over and over and over and over....

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sanssecret

Really?

Your experience is obviously very different to mine. Admittedly you've been in the game a lot longer, (:p) and maybe there wasn't as much hype and BS around when you first started, but from what I've seen, there are a LOT of people selling products whose sole purpose is to fool people into buying stuff. Take a look at some of the sales pages out there. Unless of course, it's the same few people doing it over and over and over and over....

San: I stand behind my sentiment. Try searching for IM products by adding -inurl:forum to your search query.

p.s. This one is for you Eric.

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Marvin Johnston

13 years ago

This is a most interesting topic, and is something I think about frequently with respect to one of my hobbies (ARDF - Amateur Radio Direction Finding.) Too many people start out saying to themselves they can't do it because of what other people might think or say.

Something I started telling others a few years ago is:

Don't force your limitations on me, I have enough of my own.

Marvin

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Headfirst

13 years ago

They say, "I cant succeed online because:"

-- I'm no good at technical stuff

-- I dont have any money, so I cant pay for traffic

-- I cant create products of my own

-- I dont know what I'm passionate about

-- I'm not good at copy and I cant afford copywriters

-- I dont have a big name in the market and am not a guru

-- I cant sell "make money" products because I have not made money myself

-- I cant recruit affiliates to promote my products because I'm a nobody

Warriors can solve those problems for anyone with simple answers to ALL challenges. The question is... can they fix their self belief? That's the true problem. Anyone care to take a chance and solve any of the above challenges??

~Stud

You cant fix these people. They want something for nothing.

The simple answer here is money and skill. You need both to be successful.

How do you deal with this hurdle? You work. Hard.

Get a job. Make some money. Shovel show, dig ditches, mop floors at walmart. Whatever. It doesnt matter. Get some money coming in. Then, don't go out. Don't go spend it. Spend all your non-working time building your business.

Can't write copy? Me neither. Hire someone!
Can develop a product? Hire someone!
Don't know what you're passionate about? Get a life. Seriously.
Don't have a big name? Who cares. No one starts with a big name. Under promise and over deliver and you'll get a big name.

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cnrimgr1 13 years ago

I'm no good at technical stuff--- so I watch youtube videos on tutorials for wordpress and Squidoo. I know that I can pause and just do what they do. This way I can use free sites geared towards people with no technical skills. Also I can use a forum which is all I really need to know.

I don't have any money, so I can't pay for traffic-- which is my I use niche forums, article marketing, and anything else free to make money. When I have my first $20 I can pay for some traffic then if I feel like it.

I can't create products of my own-- which is why I buy plr ebooks and/ or do affiliate marketing. With plr I can rewrite or add where I want and if in that niche I don't feel confident I can just do affiliate marketing of someone else's good product.

I don't know what I am passionate about-- so I have free sites on everything known to man and the first ones I love to work on I figure is what I am passionate about. Also this way I have my in several niches and I get to see first hand how all these niches compare.

I'm not good at copy and I can't afford copywriters-- so I read articles on copy and copy what other people do.

I don't have a big name in the market and I am not a guru-- which is great because I can build my name up with the niche I want to do. I can register my name and start doing a free blog. Also people will trust me more because I am not all about the big bucks and I am not as hyped as typical gurus.

I can't sell make money products because I have not made money myself-- which is why I am going to promote other people's make money products because they do make money. I will learn from those more advanced then me until I feel I can sell make money products.

I cant recruit affiliates to promote my products because I am a nobody-- which is why I list my product in different affiliate networks and have a slick looking website. Truth is my product is awesome and I love keeping the entire price.

Seriously the only thing stopping you is you.
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Kevin_Hutto

13 years ago

People's natural tendency is to try and pick apart ideas and plans and give reasons why they wont work - its in most people's genes. Its often very telling when someone is sharing an idea with you to watch your own thinking and see if you immediately start checking off reasons in your head why it wont work. I'm a positive person, but I see myself doing this a lot - especially when someone is giving me a new "idea" of something to sell online :-)

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi Frank,

Well spotted

I agree with your point too.

I've got a second-hand apron.

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Jill Carpenter

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

ExRat, now I am starting to see and agree with you.

I am glad Dennis wrestled the other issue with you, because the PMA who goes to the bar when the ship is filling with water is a person oblivious to taking actions he or she can take to make the best outcome a reality...

As Dennis said, the optimist will suggest that the ships' crew will most likely get the situation under control, but let's hang out at the life boats and drink tea, in case the crew cannot get the situation under control.

After all, when I get on the life boat, I want to have a window seat, and I know that if I am one of the first onto the boat, I can pick where I will sit.

If you're anything like me, you packed some mini vodkas, and will just take them and sit outside drinking them while hanging out by the lifeboats.

I am having 2 straight days in hell right now.

I was supposed to go on a flight Tuesday morning. This flight had been postponed 2 times before and I was really all about making it happen come hell or high water.

Well, Monday I had a few boxes to ship out, and not sure what happened exactly. All I know is that Monday night I found myself on the kitchen floor in excruciating pain - unable to walk.

Hoping a good nights sleep was all I needed, I awoke Tuesday able to walk at first, and found myself on the floor about a half hour later.

I had to cancel the flight.

All the positive thinking in the world was not going to make me instantaneously walk and get on the plane.

As I lay here in bed today, I have tried to make reservations for next Tuesday - but I honestly am not sure if I will be well enough by then. I'm having issues just getting into a standing position, and once I do it's a miracle to make it to the room next door. I find myself having to return via crawling.

Things do and will happen that are beyond our control.

A lot of it does boil down to learning how to prepare for these kinds of situations so they are easier to get through.

Stupidly, I did not buy mini vodkas because I was not expecting to be in bed for the week. lol

Why would I or how could I have expected such a last minute tragedy?

Now it is true that I have not been regularly exercising. Could this one thing have prevented this issue from happening when it did? Probably. In fact, this one preparation could likely solve a host of future "unexpected problems."

While there are things out of our control, I think a lot of people don't realize how much is ultimately in their control.

As the stud mentioned early on, much of this is replacing bad habits with good ones and regular focus and repetition - and it is time consuming and it is work. But doing this and applying it to all areas in your life will get you desired results more times than not.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

If you're anything like me, you packed some mini vodkas, and will just take them and sit outside drinking them while hanging out by the lifeboats.

I am having 2 straight days in hell right now.

I was supposed to go on a flight Tuesday morning. This flight had been postponed 2 times before and I was really all about making it happen come hell or high water.

Well, Monday I had a few boxes to ship out, and not sure what happened exactly. All I know is that Monday night I found myself on the kitchen floor in excruciating pain - unable to walk.

Sorry to hear you are under the weather.

But I know about your planned trip, and maybe it is your sub-conscious saying not only no, but HELL NO!

LOL

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Jill Carpenter

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

maybe it is your sub-conscious saying not only no, but HELL NO!

LOL, now that would result in dirt and scandal.

And I think the line of questioning I already received was wondering the same thing. lol

Do I like piles of snow and below freezing weather? Not really.

Now I honestly think that would be the only thing that might be in my sub-conscious.

I really do need to go.

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tpw 13 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

I really do need to go.

Need to go?

OR

Want to go?

If only the first, maybe you are misinterpreting the word "need"...

Let's hope the answer is "want".
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- Jill Carpenter 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by tpw
  
  Let's hope the answer is "want".
  
  Well, yes. I do want to be with someone there. I just don't want anything else there really. And I've been told it is only for a year (or maybe year and a half and I wish that was certain but don't really know, lol).
  
  I need to take care of some things there - so there is some want and some need.
  
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Jill Carpenter

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

@ Jill - Maybe you should see your doctor? It sounds like you don't know what caused your pain. Don't you want to know? It might help you avoid it in the future.

I don't have a Doctor here.

I can't leave the house - getting to the car will not happen.

I will give things another day and then seek out a chiropractor who can make a house visit.

If I'm laying down, there is no pain - so its a pinched nerve or torn muscle most likely. I think there would be pain just to lay down with a slipped disc - but who knows.

I really hate hospitals.

As annoying as it is, it's not like I need a heart transplant in the next hour. I've already missed the flight.

Back issues happen, and can take time to heal. I've had issues before, just nothing this extreme. It has already given me a reminder to appreciate the mobility I normally have.

Thanks for your concern. I won't let it go too long if there is no improvement.

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Vince L 13 years ago

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Like most things that are hard but can be done, people have to first believe it's possible!

For Example:
4 minute mile, Mt. Everest, Mood Landing, Making $100K from IM

One more thing to consider though - even experienced IMers with some success can fall back into this mindset when they try other avenues to diversify but fail a few times.

Has anyone ever made good money in one area like Affiliate Marketing and then not made a dime at say, niche authority sites - then thought to themselves, "Maybe I just got lucky with the first one?"

Vince
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Steven Wagenheim 13 years ago

-- I'm no good at technical stuff

Then get good at it

-- I dont have any money, so I cant pay for traffic

Then get the money

-- I cant create products of my own

Then learn how

-- I dont know what I'm passionate about

Then go dig a hole and bury yourself because for crying out loud
why the f*ck are you even living if you have no passion?

-- I'm not good at copy and I cant afford copywriters

Then learn how to write copy

-- I dont have a big name in the market and am not a guru

Then make a f*cking name for yourself.

-- I cant sell "make money" products because I have not made money myself

Then make some money for crying out loud.

-- I cant recruit affiliates to promote my products because I'm a nobody

Then become a somebody.

How?...By doing all those things that I've just told you to do.

Sorry folks...no pity from me for anybody who comes up with excuses.

When I first started I was broke, about to be homeless and dumb as a
stump when it came to this marketing sh*t.

Hell...I thought ad blasters were the coolest thing.

No excuses.

As Yoda says...do or do not. There is no try.

And from me...no sympathy for whiners.
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- tpw 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim
  
  As Yoda says...do or do not. There is no try.
  
  And from me...no sympathy for whiners.
  
  If you decide against making a decision now, you have still made a decision.
  
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  paulie888 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by tpw
  
  If you decide against making a decision now, you have still made a decision.
  
  Bill, this is so true. We are making a decision every single moment, whether we like to or not. Deciding not to take action (i.e. inaction) is still classified as an action, though it may not be immediately apparent to some people.
  
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francisj 13 years ago

I agree on all points. The thing is people keep looking everywhere except within. I recently read the book 'the monk who sold his ferrari' and one thing really struck me. (I am planning to read it again)

Run your own race. Believe in something so bad that you'll do anything to achieve it.

This will separate your I cant's to I HAVE TO then I have to to I CAN.
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arcadiasmith 13 years ago

In this kind of business, SUCCESS means a lot. It's not only by words but by putting some actions. If people say that you cannot succeed don't believe on it, take those words as a challenged.
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mikemcmillan

13 years ago

Eric,

A lot of people fall into the "guru hype" syndrome where they read about the guys knocking down the big cheese and they want in on that. And I don't fault the big guys for hyping their products the way they do. There is more money in marketing to the "looking for a magic button crowd" than to people you mentioned in "Bucket 1" simply because there are so many more of them.

I read a post earlier today by ExRat (hope that's right) in which he said he doesn't buy WSOs which promise the "magic button" success, but only ones which help him build his business. If everyone had that perspective there would be a lot more successful entrepreneurs online.

Two buckets? The problem is that your first bucket is relatively small, while the second is huge. That's why the guru sales pages look the way they do. Are they Internet grifters taking advantage of desperate, gullible buyers or just good marketers?

Eric, you said...

<<Anyone care to take a chance and solve any of the above challenges?>>

One time I was at JVNotifyPro just reading comments in the main discussion area. Craig Beckta had a post there about how to get gurus to open your emails. Rather than sending them an email saying... "Hey, here is my cool product. Why don't you promote it to your list?"... he suggested sending them an email with the following subject line...

How Can I Help You?

Read that again! That goes to what I've always said about rather than seeing what you can get from people, see how much you can give them first? If someone wants a big dog to promote their product, perhaps they should give before they try to get.

--have you ever promoted the product of the big guy?

--could you write some free, original articles for the dude?

--could you create a video for them?

--could you proofread one of their sales pages or products?

My point is that if you're not well known, you should build relationships with a few people and later down the road leverage those relationships to your benefit. This does not happen overnight, but it can work. O-o-o-p-s, I said the four letter word, yikes!!!

--Mike

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Eric Louviere

13 years ago

[IMO]

If you are attempting to do something above average (make IM work for you), then you MUST have a positive attitude, or an attacking-push-forward-I'm-going-to-be-successful attitude, or it could be very-very hard to succeed (for most)

It is inevitable, there will be obstacles and challenges along the journey. It's a GIVEN!

Therefore, if an individual is *looking* at everything through a filter of "hard, not likely, gurus are con artists, too expensive, too much work, dont have enough ____ blank, etc" then that journey is self fulfilling.

And they end up right!

I think one of the big keys is: Faith

Faith that when one of those obstacles appears, it's only a temporary speed bump while you go around that obstacle, over it or under it or fix it somehow. That MUST be hard as hell for most who have a negative-filtered view of this business (or the world).

If a positive view is there (filter) then you have faith and push forward knowing (with faith) that if and when an obstacle appears, you can conquer it.

With a negative view (filter), that simple "challenge" could cripple you and cause you to quit or form more bad habits counterproductive to good results.

I believe people CAN change their "filters". I've been doing it for years now. I consciously focus on it to be honest. I did not grow up rich and often was taught (rich = bad) at a young age.

What I do is sit down and quiet my mind and focus and concentrate (I mean REALLY concentrate) on what I want, in a positive manner... and I focus on being happy and positive and having fun.

When I get frustrated or negative, I consciously try (TRY) to change my state and my thoughts to positive. Often, I stop working completely if I feel bad. I used to first check my emails when I logged on the computer. That did not put me in a good state to start my day. I changed that and focused on being in a positive state first to start my day, and everything changed for the better.

My communication with others was better. I had more fun. I cracked jokes more... and my communication with others was always much better. I looked at people with more love than with bitterness or "what do they want out of me" attitudes.

Everywhere I turned, everything I did, I had thoughts that popped up in my head which could be negative and self defeating. For years, even though I considered myself a positive person, I had these thoughts. They just appear. There's nothing I could do to stop them permanently. So, I stopped trying to stop them permanently, and just started replacing those negative thoughts with good thoughts.

Miraculously, over time, I started seeing the world differently than MOST people do. I started seeing the world differently than I USED to see the world. Miraculously, over time, a long time, I think I did indeed change those permanent beliefs (at least some of them) to a more positive filter.

The results have been fantastic. I remember when I used to talk about people all the time. It was just automatic for me. Now, I rarely ever say anything negative about another person. If I do say something negative, I add a positive (or at least try to).

All of that has (IMO) changed me and got me better results. A more joyful life. And even when really bad things happen (a few happened this year for me) I still looked at it (tried) positively. I looked at a negative situation as a chance to improve, to learn and be a better business person, father, husband, friend, brother, son, etc.

I've said that when I look back on this "situation" I"ll be very thankful for it, because it was the difference that catapulted me to a new, higher level of understanding and happiness.

For example, this business got monotonous for me and I got complacent... and things started to feel like a boring grind, instead of excitement and fun like it used to feel. I went through some bad things in business, and I started feeling like this entire thing is a grind.

To fix that grind feeling...

All I did was INJECT more *fun* into everything I did or experienced. I had more fun with people, more fun with customers, more fun doing videos, more fun launching stuff, more fun with partners, more fun with 1on1's, more fun with friends and family, more fun everywhere.

Results: Grind feeling was gone

That's a clear example of changing your "filters" on purpose. And, having fun is contagious let me tell you. Just look at Bill's crazy hat. hehe

Respectfully,

Eric Louviere

PS - [/IMO]

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Eric Louviere

13 years ago

Hey, nobody has brought up the point that I have been talking a ton about being positive in this thread, but yet, check out the title of the thread!

lol

sneaky me

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King Shiloh

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Louviere

Hey, nobody has brought up the point that I have been talking a ton about being positive in this thread, but yet, check out the title of the thread!

lol

sneaky me

If your mindset is dirty, you may find yourself in a scandal before you can even think of cleaning it up.

If you can't do the right thing, you will always get the wrong result - that's a scandal!:confused:

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Janice Sperry

13 years ago

p.s. My 8-yo came home from school today, crying because his friends were laughing at his stocking cap with the funny face on it.

So I traded stocking caps with him. I told him that I did not care if people laughed at me.

Classic! I hope you also showed him that you posted the pic. Instead of a long lecture you gave him an example and a visual aid. Great lesson for a youngster.

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Greg D

13 years ago

The root of ALL issues we all face is simple...

"It stems from the questioning of one's own self worth."

Neat experiment to test on yourself, as questions of yourself like you are peeling an onion.

When something isn't going right, and the finger pointing or the whining starts, ask the question, 'Why did I choose to allow this to happen?'
When you give yourself an answer, then ask, 'for what purpose...(insert excuse here)?'

Keep digging, and EVERY time you will eventually get to 'questioning one's own self worth'.

Greg

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for your thoughts.

I'll try and elaborate on what I was getting at in the second quote, which you felt went off track.

It stemmed from some of the comments just prior -

EG Andy said (#21) -

That's the irony of this whole concept - people can only change their results once they accept that those results are in their control, which for people who have had poor results is often not something they're prepared to hear.

Then Paulie888 said (#22 - no, woops I meant #27) -

They tend to be fatalistic in their outlook, and therefore cannot seem to comprehend that they're actually in control of their lives and their outcomes.

Therefore my response was to point out -

To a certain degree people ARE in control of their destiny and to a certain degree, they are not.

...and I then gave two examples where the outcome of the situations were entirely unconnected with whether the man had a positive or negative attitude.

I added to the end of those two made-up examples that it's not as simplistic as 'being positive is virtually guaranteed to make everything turn out OK' or alternatively 'being negative is virtually guaranteed to make everything turn out bad'.

I made these points in reference to my original point, which was that I felt many 'P.M.A.' books had gone too far in their marketing, by suggesting that one only has to visualise success to virtually guarantee it, or that one only has to be positive and tell themsleves repeatedly that they will win, for them to win - and I felt that the consensus in the thread was starting to resemble the same point.

Later I got into the negativity/pessimism vs realism thing a little bit with tpw.

While I'm here, for clarity, I'll expand on that a little with a slightly extreme hypothetical analogy -

Imagine you are asleep on a cruise liner and you wake up to water running onto you. You look around for people to consult about taking action on the possibility of the ship going down. You find Mr. Positivity who says, 'don't let it ruin your day, come on, have another drink in the bar with me.'

You then find Mr. Pessimist who says that it might be wise to consider hanging around near the lifeboats because leaking water on a ship isn't a particularly good sign (/end of analogy).

If the ship was actually sinking fast, is it not clear how dangerous a wildly positive attitude to everything can be in certain circumstances and does this not demonstrate that realism (for better or worse) is not a wiser approach?

I fully understand that in general a positive attitude is a very wise choice and a negative one is not and frankly, it's a nightmare to have to suffer someone who has one. This is why in general I try to adopt a positive attitude to everything. I know that at least some of the time, I am successful in this (although I would understand if others here felt that if this is true, then they can't recall seeing it very often - fair cop!)

But to clarify my point - I think it is too easy for people to take it too far, which I felt was happening in the thread. It seemed like the whole tone of the thread was turning into 'be positive and this is the most important thing thing you can to do to succeed, whereas by being negative you will always fail'. My point was that I feel that this is too simplistic.

Not wanting to pick on anyone, but for example -

there was a huge percentage of people trying to 'make it' online who really didn't want to succeed.
They threw out answers about 'staffing problems', lack of knowledge about accounting/book-keeping, fear of too much money (lol) and many more negatives.

None of these people seemed to have any self belief but seemed to be 'hiding' behind pointless fears and I truly couldn't see any way of changing their mindset.

It's almost as if it has been assumed that there is absolutely no way on earth that someone could have actually had real staffing problems, or book-keeping issues - but if they had been more positive the books would have been kept and the staff would have 'manifested' themselves...

See my point?

Cheers.

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Dennis Gaskill

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Imagine you are asleep on a cruise liner and you wake up to water running onto you. You look around for people to consult about taking action on the possibility of the ship going down. You find Mr. Positivity who says, 'don't let it ruin your day, come on, have another drink in the bar with me.'

You then find Mr. Pessimist who says that it might be wise to consider hanging around near the lifeboats because leaking water on a ship isn't a particularly good sign (/end of analogy).

If the ship was actually sinking fast, is it not clear how dangerous a wildly positive attitude to everything can be in certain circumstances and does this not demonstrate that realism (for better or worse) is not a wiser approach?

Interesting scenario! It allows me to highlight that there can be different perspectives or thought processes on what is optimistic and pessimistic. The optimist that you portray is one that seems completely dismissive of circumstances. Whereas, if I were the optimist in that scenario, I would have said, "Let's go hang out near the lifeboats in case this baby goes down, because I AM going to survive if it is at all within my power."

Your pessimist is close to my optimist. The action taken by both ends up being the same, only the thinking that led to the action taken appears to be different. This is just another reason why we can't solve people's mindset problems for them, we can only try to help them work it through on their own.

I fully understand that in general a positive attitude is a very wise choice and a negative one is not and frankly, it's a nightmare to have to suffer someone who has one. This is why in general I try to adopt a positive attitude to everything.

And in general, I think you do a very good job of that. I find the overwhelming majority of your posts are well-reasoned and, if not positive in nature, point out a negative in such a way that something positive could be the end result. I often agree with what you write, and always enjoy your posts.

But to clarify my point - I think it is too easy for people to take it too far, which I felt was happening in the thread. It seemed like the whole tone of the thread was turning into 'be positive and this is the most important thing thing you can to do to succeed, whereas by being negative you will always fail'. My point was that I feel that this is too simplistic.

Fair enough. It is easy to oversimplify, I just wasn't seeing it. That's one of the things that keep it interesting around here.

See my point?

Yes, I see your point. I understood the point you were making before, but I thought you were taking the conversation outside of the scope of the discussion. What I see now that I didn't see before is that you thought the conversation had already been taken in that direction.

Stay positive, Roger!

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Martin Luxton 13 years ago

I really am trying my best to stay positive, but I'm fast losing hope that Dirt and Scandal will appear in this thread.

Martin
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King Shiloh

Banned 13 years ago

Failure is not the the reason why people will continue to fail but the fear of failure.
Fear has closed more businesses than failure.
Fear has destroyed more ideas than failure.
Fear has sent more people to the grave than failure.

Beware of fear!

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jesus72knight

13 years ago

Hey, twp. That's a cool stocking cap you've got there. I'd probably wear it too. :p

IM is but mind games. Some newbies should change those negative mindsets. This will just lead to nothing but FAILURE. Think positive paired with positive actions. And everything will work perfect.

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ExRat 13 years ago

Hi Jesus72knight,

Think positive paired with positive actions. And everything will work perfect.

Thanks for that. :rolleyes:
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tpw

13 years ago

ExRat, now I am starting to see and agree with you.

1. Have a positive mental attitude;

2. Study the marketplace to find a real need;

3. Define an affordable solution to solve the need;

4. Have the knowledge to achieve what is in your mind;

5. Have the skill set necessary to deliver;

6. Be observant and notice obstacles;

7. Think with a clear mind to find the possible means to bypass any obstacles;

8. Take actions appropriate to overcome obstacles;

9. Follow up when things get tough;

10. Never quit on your dreams;

11. Plan for everything;

12. Plan for failure and strive to succeed;

13. Realize that just because someone else could do it, does not mean that you will be able to do it exactly as they have done it;

14. Realize that no solution will fit everyone;

15. Always learn;

16. Always plan;

17. Always be ready to overcome;

18. Follow with positive action;

19. Provide service after the sale, to ensure a better reputation and more repeat business;

20. Nothing in this list should be construed to be exactly in the right place, as your circumstances will always be different than mine.

One size does not fit all...

And what I have done, you will never be able to duplicate exactly as I have done it...

And what you have done, I will never be able to duplicate exactly as you have done it...

And although I despise books and lectures on PMA, a positive mental attitude should become a way of life, rather than some obscure concept of some day...

I am glad Dennis wrestled the other issue with you, because the PMA who goes to the bar when the ship is filling with water is a person oblivious to taking actions he or she can take to make the best outcome a reality...

As Dennis said, the optimist will suggest that the ships' crew will most likely get the situation under control, but let's hang out at the life boats and drink tea, in case the crew cannot get the situation under control.

After all, when I get on the life boat, I want to have a window seat, and I know that if I am one of the first onto the boat, I can pick where I will sit.

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Richard Van 13 years ago

TPW - After all, when I get on the life boat, I want to have a window seat, and I know that if I am one of the first onto the boat, I can pick where I will sit.

Come on Bill, it's a lifeboat.

Its like bouncing around in a convertible with no windows.
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Dennis Gaskill

13 years ago

Having argued for the position of positive thinking coupled with realism and taking action in previous posts, I'm now going to relate a somewhat contrary story.

Don't be too dismissive of the power positive thinking being able to overcome a negative reality. To make a long story short, when I was 25 I was diagnosed with disease my doctor said there was no cure for, and he said I'd have to be on medication all my life, and he said I'd have to be on a special diet all my life.

I did NOT want that. I used positive thinking and simple visualization and affirmation against this disease, and in 6 months my symptoms were all gone and have never returned.

That was 30 years ago. I've NEVER had a recurrence. You can argue all you want against positive thinking, but your words are not as powerful as my transformative experience.

Yes, positive thinking is more powerful when combined with action, knowledge, and realism ... but sometimes, unexplained things can happen, seemingly by simply believing they will. As my doctor said, what happened to me was completely unexplainable.

@ Jill - Maybe you should see your doctor? It sounds like you don't know what caused your pain. Don't you want to know? It might help you avoid it in the future.

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Having argued for the position of positive thinking coupled with realism and taking action in previous posts, I'm now going to relate a somewhat contrary story.

Don't be too dismissive of the power positive thinking being able to overcome a negative reality. To make a long story short, when I was 25 I was diagnosed with disease my doctor said there was no cure for, and he said I'd have to be on medication all my life, and he said I'd have to be on a special diet all my life.

I did NOT want that. I used positive thinking and simple visualization and affirmation against this disease, and in 6 months my symptoms were all gone and have never returned.

That was 30 years ago. I've NEVER had a recurrence. You can argue all you want against positive thinking, but your words are not as powerful as my transformative experience.

Yes, positive thinking is more powerful when combined with action, knowledge, and realism ... but sometimes, unexplained things can happen, seemingly by simply believing they will. As my doctor said, what happened to me was completely unexplainable.

Well said, Dennis. No one is saying here that you should have a positive attitude that ignores reality, where you live in a fantasy world where you ignore the sky that is falling down around you.

There are many circumstances which are out of your control. (Jill, I'm really sorry about your current predicament, but your present situation is the perfect illustration of what I mean.) What matters now is how you react to your current situation. Notice how Jill is still being cheerful about her situation, despite being nearly incapacitated in a supine position and marooned on an island in the middle of nowhere.

If you flail around and start pitying yourself, you'll get absolutely nowhere. It certainly will not make things any better, though the pessimists tend to fall into that mode of thinking for the most part.

Ultimately, your failure or success in your endeavors (not just IM, mind you) rests in how you react to situations around you, especially when they may not be going too well. Pessimists more often than not tend to react adversely to such situations, in my opinion. The world would not be what it is today in terms of advanced technologies and amenities, if it wasn't for the industrious and dogged determination of inspired people like Henry Ford and Edison who pressed on resolutely, even when the pessimists around them were trying to make them stop.

Paul

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ExRat 13 years ago

Hi Paulie888,

No one is saying here that you should have a positive attitude that ignores reality

What about -

Think positive paired with positive actions. And everything will work perfect.

or

They tend to be fatalistic in their outlook, and therefore cannot seem to comprehend that they're actually in control of their lives and their outcomes.

In the last quote (which was one of yours) - if you'd said 'being positive can have a beneficial effect on their lives and outcomes', I would totally agree.

In my opinion, reality is that the amount of control we have over our lives and outcomes in general (not just in terms of being positive) is a lot closer to zero than it is to total.

Again, in my opinion, that isn't a pessimistic or negative point of view. It's realistic.

The majority have no idea just how much of their lives and outcomes are actually controlled by other people - and that's putting things like natural disasters and 'acts of God' completely on one side.

If someone really understands marketing principles and sees how those are applied by people who are not seen as marketers by the masses, I would be surprised if they didn't agree with me that most people have closer to zero, than total, control of their lives and outcomes.
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- paulie888 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ExRat
  
  Hi Paulie888,
  
  What about -
  
  or
  
  You're misquoting me. I never made the second quote. With regards to the first and third quotes, you are in control of your perception and reaction to your circumstances, and that can ultimately change your outcome, as Dennis has explained so well above.
  
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Martin Luxton

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Having argued for the position of positive thinking coupled with realism and taking action in previous posts, I'm now going to relate a somewhat contrary story.

Don't be too dismissive of the power positive thinking being able to overcome a negative reality. To make a long story short, when I was 25 I was diagnosed with disease my doctor said there was no cure for, and he said I'd have to be on medication all my life, and he said I'd have to be on a special diet all my life.

I did NOT want that. I used positive thinking and simple visualization and affirmation against this disease, and in 6 months my symptoms were all gone and have never returned.

That was 30 years ago. I've NEVER had a recurrence. You can argue all you want against positive thinking, but your words are not as powerful as my transformative experience.

Yes, positive thinking is more powerful when combined with action, knowledge, and realism ... but sometimes, unexplained things can happen, seemingly by simply believing they will. As my doctor said, what happened to me was completely unexplainable.

Dennis,

Here's one explanation

YouTube - Power of Thought - A Quantum...

I don't know how scientifically accurate that video is, but even if it's complete bollocks, just because science can't explain something at a particular time in history doesn't mean it can't happen.

I'd like to give you an example that links both your experience and the typical IM failure.

I believe in the power of healing, and have experienced it at first hand. But it takes a certain kind of person to heal. We all have the innate ability but many have not developed it to a level where it is effective (like you did).

However, if you pay a few hundred dollars and do a couple of Reiki courses, you are suddenly a 'healer' and you, too, are 'qualified' to teach Reiki.

And now you have thousands of Reiki Masters with their very own healing business.

Now, I'm not knocking Reiki, it's the whole "just pay a few bucks and you're a healer" industry it has spawned that I find distasteful. To be a healer takes time, knowledge and training. As does being a successful internet marketer. I think reducing the formula to success down to "think positive" does people a disservice and is dangerously misleading. On the other hand, it's a good get-out clause "It wasn't my crappy course that made you fail - you just weren't positive enough".

I'm an extremely positive person but, by Eric's standards I've been a failure at internet marketing. There are two main reasons

1. I took action, but the wrong action because a lot of the stuff I was sold as gospel was complete BS.

2. I made the mistake of trying to succeed in the IM niche but I'm not good at disseminating, fawning and peddling snake oil. I'm not accusing all IMers of being like that, but as a newbie in the IM niche that's pretty much what you have to be like to get ahead. The best advice I can give to any newbie is "steer clear of the IM niche - learn about IM but market to a different niche".

Healing and Internet marketing are not dishonourable professions per se, but they do attract a lot of charlatans or desperate people who will do anything to succeed.

Martin

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Jill Carpenter

13 years ago

I found a pair of crutches!

OMG, If I don't lose use of my arms, I just may make it out of the house.

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

I found a pair of crutches!

OMG, If I don't lose use of my arms, I just may make it out of the house.

This is great, Jill!

How on earth did you manage to find those crutches?? Did you know they were there in the first place?

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Richard Van

13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulie888

This is great, Jill!

How on earth did you manage to find those crutches?? Did you know they were there in the first place?

Hey Paulie,

With a good positive mental attitude, the right mind set and some wood and a chisel...hey presto, crutches!

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Jill Carpenter

13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulie888

This is great, Jill!

How on earth did you manage to find those crutches?? Did you know they were there in the first place?

I was laying here and happened to remember seeing them in the closet. Someone was using them last summer for - drumroll - back problems, lol - but he didn't really use them much.

They are really fancy actually, light metal, and have a measure on them to adjust them instantly to my 5'6" height.

I've never had to use them before so I'm a bit clunky - but made it down to the other end of the house for a bowl of soup and back!

It feels good to just stand w/o fear of muscle spasms and cringing to the floor. It makes me laugh to think about it. Luckily it doesn't hurt to laugh or I'd be in big trouble.

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Hey Paulie,

With a good positive mental attitude, the right mind set and some wood and a chisel...hey presto, crutches!

The wood is all going into the wood stove at the moment. Good thing these crutches are metal.

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

I was laying here and happened to remember seeing them in the closet. Someone was using them last summer for - drumroll - back problems, lol - but he didn't really use them much.

They are really fancy actually, light metal, and have a measure on them to adjust them instantly to my 5'6" height.

I've never had to use them before so I'm a bit clunky - but made it down to the other end of the house for a bowl of soup and back!

It feels good to just stand w/o fear of muscle spasms and cringing to the floor. It makes me laugh to think about it. Luckily it doesn't hurt to laugh or I'd be in big trouble.

Well, it's certainly serendipitous of you to find it right at this very moment, Jill! Your subconscious must have surely made you think back to the time when you last saw them over the summer.

It sounds like they are easy to use and very maneuverable, and if you made it down to the other end of the house on your first try, then you'll probably get used to them very quickly!

I can only imagine how comical it must have been (to you, not us!) to have been sprawled out on the kitchen floor, unable to move.

Was there anyone in the house with you when it occurred? Keep that laughter coming, I'm sure it'll prove efficacious in hastening your recovery.

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Jill Carpenter

13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulie888

I can only imagine how comical it must have been (to you, not us!) to have been sprawled out on the kitchen floor, unable to move.

Was there anyone in the house with you when it occurred? Keep that laughter coming, I'm sure it'll prove efficacious in hastening your recovery.

The first time, no one was home.

And, there were 2 scenarios in my head.

One was that commercial with the old lady who says "I've fallen and I can't get up" - and I know it's supposed to be serious but I think I was quite young when that commercial came out and we used to laugh about it - and here I was now living the commercial. lol

Now imagine one of those science fiction shows where someone is forced to the ground unwillingly via some supernatural power - and so the movement is trembling and slow until the finally give in. I was seeing myself from outside myself - and as serious (and painful) as the situation was my wacky self sees things in a really bizarre manner.

I discovered some massive dust bunnies under the bed - and a realization of how cold the floors were. My reality (filters) were temporarily shattered upon my realized injury and I discovered some new perspectives.

This all before any cocktails.

I went down again in the presence of others - and while some may be embarrassed to slowly struggle to the floor in front of others, I was not - and was more intrigued by the person who I went down in front of talking to me like nothing was happening and it was just a normal thing to do.

Anyway, I feel now like a super hero with the crutches.

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi Paulie888,

You might have thought your references were clear, but if you didn't feel it necessary to specifically point out that the second quote was not mine, there's no way anyone reading that post would have known otherwise.

I didn't feel it necessary because I made it clear when I pointed out the third quote was yours.

There is a sequence which you seem to be missing. The first quote is seperate. The first quote is what I am responding to in the post. Underneath that I say 'what about' and then proceed to make two quotes (with 'or' in between them) followed by 'in the last quote (which is one of yours)' - there's no need to lump all three together, it only confuses the issue. The 2nd and 3rd were part of the response to the 1st.

At no point do I reference the second quote in a way that suggests it's yours. Even if you did misunderstand this, it doesn't change my point at all. But it did give you the opportunity to avoid the point I was making (which I then re-iterated) and sidetrack the discussion onto an irrelevant dispute about whether I misquoted you or not, which I clearly didn't.

You were lumping all the quotes together and clearly making the inference that they all came from me.

I lumped all two quotes together?

I reiterate -

You said -

No one is saying here

(Emphasis added by me)

So I attempted to disprove this by giving two quotes from different people. Would it have been better to have quoted less people in order to prove that saying 'no one is saying here' was incorrect? No it wouldn't. It makes sense to quote more, if more were present.

I beg to differ, but your convoluted logic about how my third quotation excludes the second from being one of mine does not make any sense at all.

That's ridiculous. It's perfectly clear. Allow me to use a different analogy to make the point, so that it's clearer for you.

Hypothetically -

You say - 'No one in here has a dog which has made a mess on the carpet'.

I say - 'There's a dog in here called Fido which has made a mess on the carpet. There's also a dog in here called Butch which has made a mess on the carpet. The last one is one of yours.'

Any clearer yet?

If I had wanted to imply that both quotes were yours (or to pretend they were) I wouldn't have said 'in the last quote (which is one of yours)'. I would have either not mentioned it, or I would have said 'both of them are your quotes.' Both of those examples are more likely to make people think that both quotes are yours. By pointing out that one of them is yours, when anyone can easily find the author of the other quote by looking at the thread, doesn't do that. Besides I quoted the 'other' quote multiple times and on the first occasion made it quite clear it was someone elses quote! (See post #66).

I did not make that second quote, and I do think you're categorizing all of them as the same, when they're not. You're clearly implying they all came from the same person and were from the same line of thought, when this definitely isn't the case.

I disagree. Where did I 'clearly imply' that? And why is this in any way relevant to the point in question?

Your perception and reaction to your circumstances are going to ultimately determine your outcome, whether you like it or not.

I disagree.

So if a meteorite is about to land on my head, my perception and reaction are going to determine my outcome?

Haven't I elaborated on this point quite clearly above? (Below the dotted line in post#88 and also in post#85?)

It is in how you react that ultimately determines what you do next, and that is so crucial in determining your final outcome, whether you'd like to believe it or not.

How should I react to the meteorite? By going 'splat' or by going 'splat' more positively?

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi Paulie888,

I didn't feel it necessary because I made it clear when I pointed out the third quote was yours.

There is a sequence which you seem to be missing. The first quote is seperate. The first quote is what I am responding to in the post. Underneath that I say 'what about' and then proceed to make two quotes (with 'or' in between them) followed by 'in the last quote (which is one of yours)' - there's no need to lump all three together, it only confuses the issue. The 2nd and 3rd were part of the response to the 1st.

At no point do I reference the second quote in a way that suggests it's yours. Even if you did misunderstand this, it doesn't change my point at all. But it did give you the opportunity to avoid the point I was making (which I then re-iterated) and sidetrack the discussion onto an irrelevant dispute about whether I misquoted you or not, which I clearly didn't.

I lumped all two quotes together?

I reiterate -

You said -

(Emphasis added by me)

So I attempted to disprove this by giving two quotes from different people. Would it have been better to have quoted less people in order to prove that saying 'no one is saying here' was incorrect? No it wouldn't. It makes sense to quote more, if more were present.

That's ridiculous. It's perfectly clear. Allow me to use a different analogy to make the point, so that it's clearer for you.

Hypothetically -

You say - 'No one in here has a dog which has made a mess on the carpet'.

I say - 'There's a dog in here called Fido which has made a mess on the carpet. There's also a dog in here called Butch which has made a mess on the carpet. The last one is one of yours.'

Any clearer yet?

If I had wanted to imply that both quotes were yours (or to pretend they were) I wouldn't have said 'in the last quote (which is one of yours)'. I would have either not mentioned it, or I would have said 'both of them are your quotes.' Both of those examples are more likely to make people think that both quotes are yours. By pointing out that one of them is yours, when anyone can easily find the author of the other quote by looking at the thread, doesn't do that. Besides I quoted the 'other' quote multiple times and on the first occasion made it quite clear it was someone elses quote! (See post #66).

I disagree. Where did I 'clearly imply' that? And why is this in any way relevant to the point in question?

I disagree.

So if a meteorite is about to land on my head, my perception and reaction are going to determine my outcome?

Haven't I elaborated on this point quite clearly above? (Below the dotted line in post#88 and also in post#85?)

How should I react to the meteorite? By going 'splat' or by going 'splat' more positively?

Well, you are obviously making a lot of assumptions here. You are assuming that everyone would have taken the time to read this entire thread from top to bottom, and to find where those quotes came from.

You can argue that you mentioned that the third quote was mine, but in no way were you making it explicit where you were taking them from. You just lumped them all together in one group, and anyone coming across that post and not reading this entire thread would not have come to the "obvious" conclusion that you seem to be stating here.

Again, you're illustrating an extreme case that has no bearing on the discussion here. We're not talking about getting hit by meteorites here, and for the pessimist in you, let me offer you the statistical chances of that happening from the Telegraph -

"So the Safety and Reliability Directorate of the UK Atomic Energy Authority came up with an equation. It showed that, statistically speaking, some poor Brit would be squashed by a heavenly body every 7,000 years or so."

What chance of being hit by a meteorite? Don't ask a scientist - Telegraph

I think it's obvious here that your argument has no bearing on reality here, and definitely has little to do with the subject matter at hand here.

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Dennis Gaskill

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

I don't know how scientifically accurate that video is, but even if it's complete bollocks, just because science can't explain something at a particular time in history doesn't mean it can't happen.

Hi Martin - You're absolutely right saying that, because science can't explain something, doesn't invalidate it. Thanks for the video. It is accurate in portraying some of the science from the cutting edge. The cutting edge is as much theory as it is proven science, but that's where all science begins. At one time things that are obvious to us now were thought to be preposterous, such as the earth being round or that it revolved around the sun.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
- Albert Einstein

However, if you pay a few hundred dollars and do a couple of Reiki courses, you are suddenly a 'healer' and you, too, are 'qualified' to teach Reiki.

And now you have thousands of Reiki Masters with their very own healing business.

Now, I'm not knocking Reiki, it's the whole "just pay a few bucks and you're a healer" industry it has spawned that I find distasteful.

I don't know much about Reiki other than it's about the laying on of hands and using "life energy" to facilitate healing, but I do know there are charlatans in any industry. The more lucrative the industry, the more charlatans there are that show up. That's why there are so many pretenders in the healing industry, the psychic industry, and unfortunately for us, in the IM industry.

I'm an extremely positive person but, by Eric's standards I've been a failure at internet marketing.

I'll let you and Eric hash that out.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
- Albert Einstein

That is such an awesome quote, it needed to be told again.

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

That is such an awesome quote, it needed to be told again.

Amen Bill, the more violent the opposition the more telling it is!

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi Paulie888,

I'm afraid I disagree with all of your points.

The extreme example I gave has every relevance in my opinion.

Maybe you'll agree that it's probably pointless us continuing to try and thrash this out beyond this point, so perhaps we should respectfully agree to disagree.

For the record, I don't disrespect or think less of people that are willing to debate, discuss, argue, stand their ground or anything in between or similar - in fact it's the opposite. I think it's an important part of the learning process and one of the most valuable ways to spend time here, for me.

Of course, it can easily go off course, get petty etc - and I'm as guilty as anyone of making that mistake.

Thanks for the back and forth, it was interesting. No hard feelings here. Sorry for sidetracking/de-railing your thread Eric.

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi Paulie888,

I'm afraid I disagree with all of your points.

The extreme example I gave has every relevance in my opinion.

Maybe you'll agree that it's probably pointless us continuing to try and thrash this out beyond this point, so perhaps we should respectfully agree to disagree.

For the record, I don't disrespect or think less of people that are willing to debate, discuss, argue, stand their ground or anything in between or similar - in fact it's the opposite. I think it's an important part of the learning process and one of the most valuable ways to spend time here, for me.

Of course, it can easily go off course, get petty etc - and I'm as guilty as anyone of making that mistake.

Thanks for the back and forth, it was interesting. No hard feelings here. Sorry for sidetracking/de-railing your thread Eric.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then, because I truly think your examples are completely off-base and irrelevant.

No offense was taken, and it was quite interesting to see the difference in viewpoints.

Let's not get sidetracked any further and stick to the subject at hand. Discussion is always good, but it can veer off course and quickly become unproductive if we let it.

Paul

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

For the record, I don't disrespect or think less of people that are willing to debate, discuss, argue, stand their ground or anything in between or similar - in fact it's the opposite. I think it's an important part of the learning process and one of the most valuable ways to spend time here, for me.

I agree that the debate is helpful to the learning process.

I have seen several instances where the deeper questions have let me see a flaw in my thinking, but more often, I see the debate very useful in helping me to more effectively understand why I believe what I believe.

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Richard Van

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

I agree that the debate is helpful to the learning process.

I have seen several instances where the deeper questions have let me see a flaw in my thinking, but more often, I see the debate very useful in helping me to more effectively understand why I believe what I believe.

I agree Bill.

It's not only made me re-think some of my own ways of doing things but it's helped me realise why I do things the way I do and more importantly why I've done the things I've done. etc etc. Its been good for a bit of self analysis.

This has been a very wise and educational thread.

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

I agree Bill.

It's not only made me re-think some of my own ways of doing things but it's helped me realise why I do things the way I do and more importantly why I've done the things I've done. etc etc. Its been good for a bit of self analysis.

This has been a very wise and educational thread.

Richard, there's no doubt about the helpful nature of watching and participating in a forum debate (most of the time anyway). It exposes you to other paradigms that may not even be immediately apparent to you, and may have never occurred to you to explore. Such is the constructive nature of interacting and participating in forums, and it can be great arena for exposing yourself to new trains of thought, and even synthesizing new ones based on what you've seen.

Paul

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Diane S

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Louviere

-- I cant sell "make money" products because I have not made money myself

I think this is a valid point. One can always do it, but run the risk of being called out. Better to sell what you are successful with.

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi Paulie888,

(edited and combined for clarity)

You're misquoting me. I never made the second quote.

I'm not sure if some other posts are being edited, or if I'm getting confused or if you are.

I never said the second quote was yours. That's why I said -

In the last quote (which was one of yours)

...and then went on to quote some of the last (third) quote. So I'm not misquoting you. I didn't feel it necessary to point out that the second quote wasn't yours, because I made it clear yours was the third.

I simply grabbed two quotes from the thread which demonstrated the point and mentioned that the last one was yours (which in itself suggests that the previous one wasn't one of yours).

I grabbed a selection of quotes because I was responding to your post which said -

No one is saying here

...therefore by giving two examples from two different posters, it emphasized my point.

.............

With regards to the first and third quotes, you are in control of your perception and reaction to your circumstances, and that can ultimately change your outcome, as Dennis has explained so well above.

Saying that you are in control of your perception and reaction to your circumstances is quite a long way away from saying -

they're actually in control of their lives and their outcomes.

The difference between the two statements is precisely the point I am trying to make, for example here (#85) -

if you'd said 'being positive can have a beneficial effect on their lives and outcomes', I would totally agree.

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi Paulie888,

(edited and combined for clarity)

I'm not sure if some other posts are being edited, or if I'm getting confused or if you are.

I never said the second quote was yours. That's why I said -

...and then went on to quote some of the last (third) quote. So I'm not misquoting you. I didn't feel it necessary to point out that the second quote wasn't yours, because I made it clear yours was the third.

I simply grabbed two quotes from the thread which demonstrated the point and mentioned that the last one was yours (which in itself suggests that the previous one wasn't one of yours).

I grabbed a selection of quotes because I was responding to your post which said -

...therefore by giving two examples from two different posters, it emphasized my point.

.............

Saying that you are in control of your perception and reaction to your circumstances is quite a long way away from saying -

The difference between the two statements is precisely the point I am trying to make, for example here (#85) -

You might have thought your references were clear, but if you didn't feel it necessary to specifically point out that the second quote was not mine, there's no way anyone reading that post would have known otherwise. You were lumping all the quotes together and clearly making the inference that they all came from me. I beg to differ, but your convoluted logic about how my third quotation excludes the second from being one of mine does not make any sense at all.

I did not make that second quote, and I do think you're categorizing all of them as the same, when they're not. You're clearly implying they all came from the same person and were from the same line of thought, when this definitely isn't the case. I never said that things were as simplistic as what the second quote seems to be implying.

Your perception and reaction to your circumstances are going to ultimately determine your outcome, whether you like it or not. It is in how you react that ultimately determines what you do next, and that is so crucial in determining your final outcome, whether you'd like to believe it or not.

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Andrew Rodney

13 years ago

I think you are right the biggest problem for majority of the people is their mindset. It is interesting to see that all the really successful people in any area have a strong self believe and confidence. But I think that the world and people are slowly but surely waking up but anyway thanks for bringing it up.

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Jill Carpenter

13 years ago

I've been presented with an opportunity which will take me far out of my comfort zone.

It appears now like I'm standing in front of the Empire State Building - and like someone has said to me "your mission is to get to the top of the building."

(I'm not talking about just ranking a website btw)

People around me think I can do this. LOL, I don't know if I can do this. And to be honest, I know there are people who have done it before and are more qualified to do this task.

So, if I honestly just "don't know" is it better for me to blindly jump in and take the challenge (which can affect not only someone elses business but potentially a friendship) or do I decline the opportunity to await for one that might come along when I'm more prepared?

This is an actual scenario I'm facing right now.

While it can be seen as beneficial to have people around you who believe in you, it also can put a lot more pressure on you.

Some questions you might be asking:

Will the rewards of accomplishing this goal be satisfying to me? Yes. I will get a salary and a commissions. I will also accumulate knowledge on how to get to the top of that building which can be rewarding in itself.

Is this something that fits into my current business model?
Well, it was never something I ever thought to do. It is not the first time either that an opportunity was tossed in my lap. The last time I did start to implement some things, but finances for the project came to an end and so did my participation. This situation is different as there is a definite salary in the picture.

So, again, will this fit in the current business model? I could budget the time for it as my time is very loose right now. It would require me getting on an actual schedule which is something I have not had to do for some time. I like putzing around all day and I always feel like I have things to do - of course tending to Farmville may not seem that important to many. lol

Do you need the money?The money from this won't make a difference of there being some food on the table, or a roof over my head. Those things are taken care of. It will however come in as extra money that can be used to fund extra things I might want. Who do you know that doesn't "want" extra money? lol

I'm looking for the right trigger question that can help me decide if I should go forward with this opportunity.

Let's see if someone can affect my mindset - shall we?

Because honestly if I had all the knowledge on how to implement the task, I'd probably take it up in a heartbeat and just bang it out.

Is my lack of desperation an issue? :confused:

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Martin Luxton

13 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

I've been presented with an opportunity which will take me far out of my comfort zone.

I'm looking for the right trigger question that can help me decide if I should go forward with this opportunity.

Let's see if someone can affect my mindset - shall we?

Because honestly if I had all the knowledge on how to implement the task, I'd probably take it up in a heartbeat and just bang it out.

Is my lack of desperation an issue? :confused:

Jill it seems to me the opportunity is taking you into a comfort zone (salary).

Do you think what's holding you back is the the personal cost of this opportunity - surrendering a lot of your hard-won independence?

Martin

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Jill Carpenter

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

Jill it seems to me the opportunity is taking you into a comfort zone (salary).

Do you think what's holding you back is the the personal cost of this opportunity - surrendering a lot of your hard-won independence?

Martin

I'm sure that is part of the issue. While I'll be in charge of a specific division and can work from home and set my own hours, I can't just flake out one day because I feel like it. Well I could, but there is pressure that I'd really be affecting someone elses business directly and in the end my relations with this person would be changed.

I basically have to develop this person/company business model from scratch. And I've been informed he really wants to just hand the keys over and someone to just make things happen. He runs several businesses already. This would be like an annex store off of one of those businesses. He's not looking for someone he has to babysit and tell them how to do this.

Physical products exists and sell currently through distributors - but I would be creating the "for the public" wing.

There is the issue for me of "commitment." Not that I wouldn't be able to commit to something but as mentioned above I feel I'd be pushing far out of my comfort zone as I don't know if I can produce desired results in a timely manner based on my current knowledge and what learning curve I'd need to handle.

Presently I take on external projects that have a beginning and an end. Anything else is projects I create for myself and there is no pressure to continue them if I decide to let them go as they only affect myself. I can easily set them aside and jump back to them when the wind blows me in that direction.

I currently don't take on things which I don't have at least a 75% grasp on - so I'm willing to go out of a comfort zone, but only in small increments.

This is a corporate type situation - which some would probably be jumping through hoops to get into - but I'm that artsy fartsy type that never had to really work this way. Visually right now I'm seeing myself at a 25% grasp of things that need to be done (the internet stuff) and feel like the other factors ( the unknown territory) are 75%.

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PLR Basket

13 years ago

You can't change someones self-beliefs like you can solve another person's self-esteem issues...

Every issue that deals with the self must be addressed by the self...

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AffiliateAdviceAndTips

13 years ago

"I can't" just means "I won't". Everything is easy once you know how to do it. "Killin It" online is simple once you crush the mental blocks and get down to learning.

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warriorkay

13 years ago

I agree with you absolutely. Unless we are ready to change,
moving changes... no matter how much information we have
access to. So, regardless of how good a guru is or how good
his informational product is, it won't help someone who is
unwilling to change his/her mindset and take action on
what the informational product talks about.

"If there's no enemy within... the enemy outside can do us no harm"

Kingsley

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Thaddaeus T. Hogg

13 years ago

I cant create products of my own

Shewt, any ole body can make there own products! Thar is only one dadgum thang that can keep you folks from creatin' yore own product... initiative!

I been creatin' my own product fer a spell now. I shore didn't get the moniker "Moonshine Man" from sittin' on my bohicketyboop!

I don't know what I'm passionate about

Well heck, if yew don't know what YORE passionate 'bout, how in tarnation are yew gonna know what your target audience is passionate about? My good friend Auggie says, "Yew gots to be knowin' who YEW are before you can be knowin' who the folks yew market to are!"

I shore know that I am passionate about armadillers! Them thangs is the cutest dadburn critters what with their little legs stickin' up in the air at the side of the road!

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