Testimonials From Review Copies Don't Mean Squat - Do You Agree Or Disagree?

54 replies
Warriors,

Every marketer has their own set of biases. One of mine is if I see a testimonial from someone, who I don't know, who admits in their testimonial that they received a review copy, I immediately discount it. It has zero impact on me.

I'm more curious than anything how you Warriors feel about it.

Happy Holidays,

RoD "Where's-My-Eggnog" Cortez
#agree #copies #disagree #review #squat #testimonials
  • Profile picture of the author King Shiloh
    Banned
    I agree with you. Why?

    It's easier for a receiver of a review copy to give a pass mark to the product from the giver of the copy than to discredit the product even if the product is a piece of rubbish. After all, the receiver might feel that he has nothing to lose.

    Again, why would a product owner even put a negative testimonial from anybody, including a testimonial from a receiver of review copy, on his site? I can't imagine the reason why a vendor would do that.

    Rod, I feel exactly the same way.

    However, I have to advice those that give fake testimonials to be very careful because their reputation is at stake.
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      What if a well known blogger/marketer, who you know as being extremely trustworthy, receives a free review copy and gives a good review?
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      • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
        Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

        What if a well known blogger/marketer, who you know as being extremely trustworthy, receives a free review copy and gives a good review?
        Good question. I wrote in my OP if it was someone "I didn't know" it doesn't mean squat to me, but I didn't bring up the other side of that coin. If it's someone I know and trust, of course it would carry more weight with me.

        A good example of this is Paul Myers. I've been on his list almost forever. When he recommends something and it's something that my business needs, I buy it without even reading the sales copy because he's never let me down in the ten years or so I've been on his e-zine list.

        RoD

        A lot of it depends on what they say, too. Does the review only highlight the good points, or does it mention a few warts too? Does it seem contrived? Do the language semantics seem more consistent with the OP than the reviewers other posts (indicating the review might have been supplied)? Lots of variables to consider, but mostly I only pay attention to someone I know and trust.
        Good points Dennis. Though I admit to being a bit jaded now, as soon as I read "review copy" my brain shuts down. Waitaminute, that's not true, my brain is never "on" anyways.

        RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    RoD "Where's-My-Eggnog" Cortez

    ...your eggnog is hiding in your glass. It's that wee thin layer underneath the rum. :p

    As far as testimonials go, I'm certainly more skeptical of a review by someone I don't know, whether they have received a review copy or not. I might be a little less skeptical if they acknowledge they received a review copy in their review ... at least they're being honest up to that point.

    A lot of it depends on what they say, too. Does the review only highlight the good points, or does it mention a few warts too? Does it seem contrived? Do the language semantics seem more consistent with the OP than the reviewers other posts (indicating the review might have been supplied)? Lots of variables to consider, but mostly I only pay attention to someone I know and trust.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    It depends on who is offering the review.

    Those with integrity do not sell or give their reviews to anyone undeserving...

    But those with a little less integrity may give a positive review to anyone for any reason.

    If you know the integrity of the person offering the review, you know the value of the review.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
    RoD "Where's-My-Eggnog" Cortez,

    I don't like the whole "review copy" thing.

    It's not a review of the system, it's a review of the free transaction.

    They almost ALWAYS look like eBay feedback, as well...i.e.

    "Fast delivery. I skimmed it...looks great. Buy with confidence. A+++++++++++"

    Hmmmm.....

    Happy Nogging.

    Cheers,
    Steve
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    Not promoting right now

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  • Profile picture of the author krankxl
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by krankxl View Post

      The testimonials dont really have an impact on me, but im pretty sure that it increases conversion rates a little bit. The only time I believe the reviews is on a WSO. Besides that, the reviews are all just made up.
      To be blunt, that could be a mistake!

      You still have to be careful with WSOs as well. How well do you know the reviewer? Are they regular contributors to the forum (so you have some idea of who they are)?

      While it would be great if you could trust a testimonial just because it's in a WSO, the truth is that you can't. And that's coming from a guy who consistently gets rave reviews.

      As a seller, I appreciate ALL of the comments left by people. If they are negative, then I consider is constructive criticism, OR may look back over my copy to see where the disconnect was. BUT, even when I get tons of good comments, I would like all buyers to not simply take them at face value, but rather look at the totality of the comments, as well as who's behind them.

      All the best,
      Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

    Every marketer has their own set of biases. One of mine is if I see a testimonial from someone, who I don't know, who admits in their testimonial that they received a review copy, I immediately discount it. It has zero impact on me.
    You do understand that the law says they have to disclose this, right?

    So whenever someone deliberately and obviously obeys the law, you immediately discount their opinion.

    I don't know about you, but I rather like people who obey the law. I like people who pay the proper taxes, and get the proper licences, and disclose the proper information as required by law.

    Because in my experience, these are honest and ethical people. So when they say "this product is really good," they actually mean it, and if they didn't mean it they wouldn't say it. Because that would be dishonest and unethical.

    I'm curious what logic leads you to believe that a review from someone who received a review copy is somehow less reliable when they tell you about it.

    Because, you know, all they'd have to do is not tell you. If you ignore the review because they give you this piece of information, they can just stop giving it to you. And then you won't ignore the review anymore!

    Sure, it will be illegal, but that's fine. We'll break this law about disclosing the receipt of review copies, and oh, what the hell: we'll lie about our identity, claim to have a guarantee but not honour it, and come to think of it we could just plain not pay our affiliates.

    Because hey, once you've broken the law, you're a criminal. You're on the other side. You may as well break all the others, too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      You do understand that the law says they have to disclose this, right?

      So whenever someone deliberately and obviously obeys the law, you immediately discount their opinion.

      I don't know about you, but I rather like people who obey the law. I like people who pay the proper taxes, and get the proper licences, and disclose the proper information as required by law.

      Because in my experience, these are honest and ethical people. So when they say "this product is really good," they actually mean it, and if they didn't mean it they wouldn't say it. Because that would be dishonest and unethical.

      I'm curious what logic leads you to believe that a review from someone who received a review copy is somehow less reliable when they tell you about it.

      Because, you know, all they'd have to do is not tell you. If you ignore the review because they give you this piece of information, they can just stop giving it to you. And then you won't ignore the review anymore!

      Sure, it will be illegal, but that's fine. We'll break this law about disclosing the receipt of review copies, and oh, what the hell: we'll lie about our identity, claim to have a guarantee but not honour it, and come to think of it we could just plain not pay our affiliates.

      Because hey, once you've broken the law, you're a criminal. You're on the other side. You may as well break all the others, too.
      Oh come on, you know what he means, Caliban.

      Using movies as an analogy.

      IF somebody I know tells me a bout a movie, then I will be more likely to accept their comments as opposed to somebody I don't know.

      It's not a question of legality. It's a question of human nature.

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        Oh come on, you know what he means, Caliban.
        Yeah.

        That when a stranger says "I got to see this movie for free, and I liked it" he doesn't listen, but when a stranger just says "I liked this movie" he does.

        I don't understand how that helps anyone. It seems to me that he's still listening to strangers.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Yeah.

          That when a stranger says "I got to see this movie for free, and I liked it" he doesn't listen, but when a stranger just says "I liked this movie" he does.

          I don't understand how that helps anyone. It seems to me that he's still listening to strangers.
          Okay, it does sound like you know what he meant. Fair enough.

          But, the question is, is the opinion of someone going to be unfairly swayed toward the positive if they get something for free? I think so, and so does Robert Cialdini (spelling?). He calls it 'reciprocity', and I think that lies at the heart of the matter.

          At least the way I see it.

          All the best,
          Michael
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

            But, the question is, is the opinion of someone going to be unfairly swayed toward the positive if they get something for free? I think so, and so does Robert Cialdini (spelling?). He calls it 'reciprocity', and I think that lies at the heart of the matter.
            I do agree, but what we have here is four possible testimonials with different levels of trust.

            You have Alice, who paid for the product and tells me she paid for it.

            You have Bob, who received a review copy and tells me he received it.

            You have Chester, who paid for the product but doesn't actually say it.

            And you have Dora, who got a review copy but doesn't actually say it.

            Now, the reason Dora goes all the way at the bottom is that her testimonial is actually against FTC rules. She can't legitimately give that testimonial.

            And one of the reasons is that it's impossible to tell Dora's testimonial apart from Chester's. While there are different incentives and different situations that materially affect the content of these two reviews, those incentives are not disclosed so I can't make an informed decision.

            Since it's impossible to tell Chester's and Dora's situations apart, I have to trust both of them equally.

            Which leads me to Alice and Bob. Yes, Bob's receipt of the review copy will affect his review. But because I know he received one, I can apply that knowledge to my interpretation of his review. I will trust him less than someone who paid for the product, but more than someone who doesn't say whether they paid.

            See where I'm coming from on this?
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            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              I do agree, but what we have here is four possible testimonials with different levels of trust.

              You have Alice, who paid for the product and tells me she paid for it.

              You have Bob, who received a review copy and tells me he received it.

              You have Chester, who paid for the product but doesn't actually say it.

              And you have Dora, who got a review copy but doesn't actually say it.

              Now, the reason Dora goes all the way at the bottom is that her testimonial is actually against FTC rules. She can't legitimately give that testimonial.

              And one of the reasons is that it's impossible to tell Dora's testimonial apart from Chester's. While there are different incentives and different situations that materially affect the content of these two reviews, those incentives are not disclosed so I can't make an informed decision.

              Since it's impossible to tell Chester's and Dora's situations apart, I have to trust both of them equally.

              Which leads me to Alice and Bob. Yes, Bob's receipt of the review copy will affect his review. But because I know he received one, I can apply that knowledge to my interpretation of his review. I will trust him less than someone who paid for the product, but more than someone who doesn't say whether they paid.

              See where I'm coming from on this?
              I do see where you're coming from now.

              However, I would have to add:

              Eustice, who received it as a review copy but says they paid for it.

              Personally, I don't think this happens very often, but it adds a small wrinkle to the options. (Plus, it gave me a chance to use the name 'Eustice' )

              It shows that if you don't know the person, you can't really be sure. So, knowing somebody adds weight to their recommendation. But then we get to the question of HOW do you really know somebody here at the WF?

              All the best,
              Michael
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              • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                Personally, I don't think this happens very often, but it adds a small wrinkle to the options.
                I don't think it adds any wrinkles at all.

                The question of whether the person is lying or not always enters the picture, but whether they've lied is never disclosed. So you can't tell the difference between "I love this program" coming from someone who really loves it, or someone who didn't even bother reading it.

                At some point, I should test that. I should put a testimonial on a product site that says "I loved this product! It was awesome! Everyone should get it! Actually, I'm lying, I never even read it." Just to see what happens.

                Hey... I should get other people to do it. I should show them the sales page, and ask people to give a glowing review for the product ending with the honest admission that they haven't seen the product at all.

                This is totally going in my "crazy things to try someday" pile.

                Also, I think the name you were looking for was either Eustace or Eunice. But most normal people would say Ed.

                Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

                Except for when the law says that you can't grow those tangly weeds in your yard, right, CD?
                There are certain laws which can and should be productively resisted through civil disobedience.

                I don't hold it against someone if they've accurately identified such a law.
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                "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                  Personally, whether a reviewer paid for a product or received it for purposes of reviewing it matters little to me, especially when reviewers follow the rules and disclose.

                  I give a lot more weight to the reviewer's previous body of work. If every review reads like the company shills whose reviews movie makers like to quote, I discount the review. Who cares what the cheer squad thinks of the football team? Same with someone who never has anything good to say about any product.

                  I get asked from time to time to do reviews in exchange for products. Here's how I handle it.

                  > If someone makes a positive testimonial a condition of receiving the product, I either ignore them or tell them where to stick their product.

                  > I don't trade products for reviews. If asked properly, and time allows, I'll provide private feedback on a product. If the owner still wants me to post something, I post it.

                  > I disclose the fact that I received a copy without paying for it. If I haven't actually used the product, I explain the basis for my opinions.

                  > My reviews are not for sale. They may be given to the owner, but never as a quid pro quo. If I don't like you or how you asked me, it isn't going to happen, and I will tell you why. If I say I don't have time at the moment, I don't have time...
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                  • Profile picture of the author Thaddaeus T. Hogg
                    Testimonials From Review Copies Don't Mean Squat - Do You Agree Or Disagree?
                    Shore I agree! Just 'cause you git a testimonial don't mean you need to squat! I've always been findin' that the more I eat, the more I squat!

                    I ain't shore I understand what you be a gittin at!
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                    • Profile picture of the author Robert Oliver
                      Rod,

                      This is a good topic to bring up.

                      I have done lots of testimonials for wso's and other

                      products here on this forum. I quit doing them when the

                      OP of the wso's started demanding they wanted my review

                      in the next couple of hours. I also started telling them that

                      are they sure they wanted me reviewing their wso as I will

                      only write the truth with no frills. This stopped many from

                      pursuing me any farther. Only when I had time to implement

                      was I willing to put my name on their product. So many are

                      impatient. If you cannot implement and make money with a

                      wso then your review is worthless. Can you do what the OP

                      says can be done with his wso? That is the bottom line.

                      I see these weak little reviews nowadays about how the wso

                      looks great, it might work, it is well written, the author really

                      list things in a simple plan, etc...... These reviews are worthless.

                      Point Blank: Did you as the reviewer make money? I also see these

                      wso pop up with I have 5 review copies to give out. Next thing you

                      know the review copies are given out to Warriors with less than

                      10 post. What a waste of a review copy. What type of credibility

                      does someone have with 10 post?

                      I buy wso's from credible warriors who have produced products that

                      I have made money from and that is it.

                      I'll quit my rant now.

                      Robert Oliver
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    • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post


      I don't know about you, but I rather like people who obey the law.
      Except for when the law says that you can't grow those tangly weeds in your yard, right, CD?
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
    RoD "Where's-My-Eggnog" Cortez
    WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH ROD???

    Actually, I'm another person who doesn't pay much attention to testimonials. I tend to Google the product and see what others are saying about it. Even then, you have to be careful because some are affiliates and are trying to make a living like everyone else.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marty S
      Honestly I have never really been too concerned about "how" a reviewer got their product, but more-so the words they use to describe their experience with the product.

      For example I often see reviews here in the WF that I instantly ignore because they are simply too good or too complimentary. I don't really think that is a jaded view either, because if you think about it - how many things in life do you really buy that you are absolutely 100% happy with? Even excellent products have flaws that each person recognizes as something they would like to see done better.

      When I see love-buzz words like "over the top", "massive value", "unbelievable", "they should be charging way more for this", "the best thing I've ever seen" etc., well I simply just ignore that entire write-up because I feel the reviewer is not being realistic, nor completely honest.

      However you get a product - do a REAL review, yes - but not before you actually USE the product as it was intended. Then speak the truth. This way the owner of the product will be able to respond to any issues and prospective buyers will be able to see how the owner responds to such - a VERY important factor when giving your money to someone.

      I would take much more stock in an overall positive review that also mentions a shortcoming or two. Sadly, most reviews - IMHO - are just an extension of the copy.
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  • Profile picture of the author V12
    Law of reciprocity. You get something for free, it's hard to critcize it, especially in public. And even poor reviews are usually heavily tempered with positive comments because of this.
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  • This same question probably has been asked a dozen times here. But there is nothing wrong with providing a free or even discounted review copy to someone to ask for their feedback.

    The only time where you can tarnish your reputation is if you try to incent or convince them in some way that they have to leave a positive review. But across the board, most people who offer reviews here will give their honest feedback on your product or course. And good, bad or indiferent I am all for it.
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Outside of having your own external community that you can leverage, it can be VERY difficult for a new Warrior to gain their WSO traction unless they seek out people to give free review copies out to.

      When I first began, I couldn't even get many of the influential members here to respond to my PMs. What is a new Warrior to do? Their WSO can be dead in the water without anyone "vouching" for it...

      For the benefit of those who are new, and contemplating running a WSO, how would you recommend, to them, that they gain their WSO traction IF they don't have a community to leverage or a huge mailing list already?

      Should they seek out influential members with large post counts?
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      • Profile picture of the author theemperor
        Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

        For the benefit of those who are new, and contemplating running a WSO, how would you recommend, to them, that they gain their WSO traction IF they don't have a community to leverage or a huge mailing list already?

        Should they seek out influential members with large post counts?
        Thanks soldier! I'd love to see this question answered

        My take is perhaps the WSO vehicle is more for seasoned marketers who are already selling their products successfully elsewhere and have a list already.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by theemperor View Post

          Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

          For the benefit of those who are new, and contemplating running a WSO, how would you recommend, to them, that they gain their WSO traction IF they don't have a community to leverage or a huge mailing list already?
          Thanks soldier! I'd love to see this question answered
          I'll answer it.

          I don't say I'll answer it well.

          I suspect that people who don't already have any "community" to leverage, or a proper mailing-list, aren't going to do too well with a WSO anyway, because in threads discussing "What makes you buy a WSO" most of the answers attach great importance to "knowing the person selling it". And that those people arguably shouldn't be doing a WSO but first building a "community" (and maybe a mailing list, too) instead.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            I'll answer it.

            I don't say I'll answer it well.

            I suspect that people who don't already have any "community" to leverage, or a proper mailing-list, aren't going to do too well with a WSO anyway, because in threads discussing "What makes you buy a WSO" most of the answers attach great importance to "knowing the person selling it". And that those people arguably shouldn't be doing a WSO but first building a "community" (and maybe a mailing list, too) instead.
            Make friends...then sell.

            Makes sense to me.

            Merry Xmas, Alexa

            Best wishes,
            Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

        how would you recommend, to them, that they gain their WSO traction IF they don't have a community to leverage
        Traction is leverage.

        In a WSO, you leverage the Warrior Forum community.

        You gain leverage in a community by participating in it.

        That's the way it's supposed to work.

        Somewhere along the line, people got confused about the WSO forum and started thinking it was different from other ads because Warriors buy there. But what makes it different is that Warriors sell there. The market response is not to the forum, it's to the people in the forum.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Rod, even testimonials from seasoned vets mean nothing to me and here
          is why.

          I don't know what kind of...

          Budget
          Knowledge
          Work Ethic

          they brought to the table.

          Somebody having success, or for that matter NOT having success with a
          particular product, means nothing to me.

          It's what I can do with it that matters. And the only way I'm going to
          know that is if I try it.

          Think about it, if somebody like yourself or Mike Filsaime or Jeff Walker or
          any of the big names offered a testimonial that said how they used the
          product and it was great and they made all this money, so what?

          Mike Filsaime can probably throw more money into making that product
          work in one day than I could throw into it in a month or even a half a
          year.

          Testimonials have no impact on me one way or another regardless of who
          it is and how good OR bad the testimonial is.

          Ultimately, it's my own experience, bankroll, knowledge and work ethic
          that's going to determine how much I get out of the product.

          In fact, if John Doe nobody actually uses the product, regardless of
          whether he got a review copy or not, and actually made money from
          using it, I'd tend to give THAT more weight.

          Why?

          There is a good chance that this person had...

          Less experience
          Less money

          And maybe not as good a work ethic as myself. So if HE could make this
          work, there is a darn good chance that I can.

          And even THAT is not a reliable indicator because John Doe just might
          happen to have a rich uncle who just lent him $2 million, a masters in
          business and marketing and just come off working towards his masters
          thesis...talk about needing a work ethic.

          It just doesn't matter what anybody says about a product because only
          you can determine if it's going to work for you or not.
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Think about it, if somebody like yourself or Mike Filsaime or Jeff Walker or
            any of the big names offered a testimonial that said how they used the
            product and it was great and they made all this money, so what?
            But Steven, think about it.

            Testimonials are how you know whether people like you are using the product. That's what they're for. So you can look at the people using the product and say "hey, those people seem like me."

            That's where a lot of marketers miss the boat. They have testimonials on their sales page, but the testimonials are neither from people their target market trusts, nor people in their target market.
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            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              But Steven, think about it.

              Testimonials are how you know whether people like you are using the product. That's what they're for. So you can look at the people using the product and say "hey, those people seem like me."

              That's where a lot of marketers miss the boat. They have testimonials on their sales page, but the testimonials are neither from people their target market trusts, nor people in their target market.
              It helps, but, at least not for me, a "slam dunk this is going to be something
              I am going to want to get because it's going to..." whatever it's supposed
              to do.

              I've learned this from the many products I've gotten where it turned out
              either...

              1) I needed tech skills I didn't have
              2) I needed much more money than I had or was willing to spend
              3) I needed to do tons of outsourcing...something I don't like to do
              4) I needed other knowledge of something that I didn't have.

              Testimonials can make anything sound like the greatest thing since sliced
              bread. But unless you get every single little piece of what is actually in the
              product out of that testimonial, you're only get a part of the picture and,
              depending on who is giving that testimonial, a distorted viewpoint.

              Everybody has their bias and baggage that they bring to the table when
              they use a product. Some of these people MIGHT have similar backgrounds
              to me, but unless I absolutely know for certain what they knew beforehand,
              how much money they had to spend, what kind of skills they brought to
              the table, and so on, I am still ultimately taking a chance on the product.

              That chance I usually base MORE on my gut from the description of the
              product itself and how I think it will fit into my current business model.

              And that usually comes down to "I know I need the darn thing anyway (
              such as with DLGuard) so just tell me what it does and then based on
              my research on the product creator's reputation, I'll then make my
              decision.

              Paul Myers can come out with poop on a stick, but if I think it will fit into
              my business model and help me earn MORE money, I'll buy it, sales page
              site unseen and without anybody having to tell me how good it is.

              I became this kind of buyer over the years after falling for the "hype" and
              "testimonials" of many products that, at least for me, either didn't live up
              to the hype OR left out those key things I mentioned above, such as
              needing lots of money to make something work, or lots of tech skills.

              This all comes back to transparency in salescopy, which is almost non
              existent. Nobody is going to create a sales page for a "make money"
              product that says...

              "In order to make this work for you, you need the following:"

              * $1,000 for outsourcing monthly
              * Advanced PHP and MySQL

              If I bought this product, not knowing this, I'd have no desire to use it.

              But that's a totally different subject and I don't even want to get into
              transparency and honesty in salescopy because it'll totally derail this whole
              thread.

              Point is, and again, this is just me...you have to take ALL testimonials with
              a grain of salt unless they are full disclosure testimonials where you get
              to see everything that went into making the product work.

              Tell me the last time you saw one of those.
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              • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                It helps, but, at least not for me, a "slam dunk this is going to be something I am going to want to get because it's going to..." whatever it's supposed to do.
                It's extremely rare that a testimonial does that for me, and it's usually because the person giving the testimonial is someone that works the same way I do.

                Paul Myers can come out with poop on a stick, but if I think it will fit into my business model and help me earn MORE money, I'll buy it, sales page site unseen and without anybody having to tell me how good it is.
                Yeah, I mentioned to someone the other day that this is what success looks like:



                But here's the thing... if Paul left a testimonial on something, I wouldn't care. Paul and I are in very different places. He's not enough like me for it to matter. Neither are you, for that matter. But Michael Oksa and Gene Pimentel are, so their testimonials are all I need.

                That's really the tough part about testimonials, because you want testimonials from your target market - not your friends and the people who would review your stuff for you. You want them to come from the kind of people who would be buying your product, whether they buy it or not. I feel like there should be an easy answer for that, but I'm not sure what it is.

                But that's a totally different subject and I don't even want to get into transparency and honesty in salescopy because it'll totally derail this whole thread.
                Dammit, and I wanted to talk about that. Go start a new thread.
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          • Profile picture of the author James Clark
            All of information here is great, but I thought I would add my 2 cents. Obliviously, some members connect with me right away and some don’t. I really don’t pay much attention to testimonials’ because they really don’t mean that much to me. If they have them that’s okay and if the don’t have them that is fine.

            When I make a decision to try anything one of the major points I try to consider is whether I can add my personally to it and make it work for me. If I can imagine myself making money with it then it’s a go.

            I can sit in front of my computer and visualize all kinds of stuff, but I can’t do everything that I can imagine, to make my point. I live in New York. Can imagine myself jumping from the top floor of the “Empire State Building” and landing softly, but I can’t do it. Also, I can imagine myself playing Golf perfectly but I can do that either.

            In my business, I just try to eliminate imagination failure.
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            • Profile picture of the author Lance K
              Does anybody really base their purchasing decisions on testimonials anyway?

              Or are they just skimming the testimonials to find ones that justify/validate a decision that they've already made?

              Testimonials are like a good closer in baseball. Their biggest challenge is to not blow the game/sale.
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              ~ Zig Ziglar
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by LD Carter View Post

            To me, this reply makes the most sense. I hinted at this very same concept not too long ago. The only way to truly test a product is to try it yourself.
            What drives most people's buying decisions is their level of conviction that if they get this product, they'll have good results.

            And what they look for, in that decision, is whether people like them are getting good results.

            The underlying problem is that I haven't used the product myself. So what I want is the next best thing: the honest report of someone just like me that he used the product and got good results. Failing that, I'm looking for people a little less like me, and then a little less, and then a little less. The more like me those people are, the more I believe I could do it myself.

            Because in the end, I can't try every product myself. Even if you ignore the question of money, I only have so much time. If I got every single WSO for free, I would still never be able to read all of them - let alone apply every method of every system. I still have to budget my time, effort, and energy.

            What makes the WSO forum so successful is that it's inhabited by people like us. The guy in the WSO forum selling his method of making money on Clickbank isn't some stranger. You probably know him. Even if you don't, you can go read his previous posts and get some idea who he is.

            Similarly, when someone responds to a WSO thread with a testimonial, you can determine quickly and easily whether that someone is like you or not.

            So with apologies to Walt Kelly...

            We have met the marketer, and he is us.
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            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author Ninawa
    It all depends on the honesty of the Marketer, I always assure the person that receive my review copies that all I need from them is their honest opinion. I can ,however, understand your product reviews because usually the big guys in marketing are friends or know each other so when one of them releases a product, they all run and chant for it no matter how bad it may be.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      In the last few WSO "testimonials" I've given, I've started off by saying "This is a testimonial from a paying customer who's using the product ..." or something very similar.

      Because otherwise people may think I've given a testimonial in exchange for a free copy.

      But then, having said that, you have to go on and say something like "Of course, I'm not suggesting that any others aren't, but this is just something I always say because it helps me, reading testimonials, when people say it", otherwise you may offend others in the thread. :rolleyes:

      Call me a skepchick, but I have almost no faith in product testimonials online unless I know the person giving the testimonial, in which case I ask them a bit about it privately anyway ...

      I certainly think testimonials from review copies are less trustworthy, yes.

      And I agree with Caliban's point above.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Ninawa View Post

      usually the big guys in marketing are friends
      Speaking as a product creator, if another product creator was releasing crappy products, we probably wouldn't be friends.

      Friends are usually based on core values. When I give a testimonial on some product, I'm saying "this product is consistent with my core values." In general, when a person's products don't do this, that person probably doesn't share my core values.

      Now, if you don't know who I am, you don't know what my core values are. And that's what the testimonial says: "this is why I think this product is consistent with my core values." If you know who I am, and you know what my core values are, then you can just say "oh, Caliban left a testimonial" and you don't have to read it.

      I don't need to read testimonials from Michael Oksa and Gene Pimentel, for example. When I see their pictures next to testimonials, I can stop looking for more "proof" elements because I'm done. So for someone like me, all you have to do is put up a headline, a price, and a picture of Gene or Michael. If the product is something I want, and the price is something I can afford, I'll buy on the strength of that endorsement. Because I know that Michael and Gene and I have similar core values, and that they wouldn't give a testimonial to anything (or anyone) that wasn't consistent with them.

      But with a stranger, you're looking at the text of the testimonial not to see what they said about the product (they said it was good; that's all anyone ever says), but to see what that person's core values appear to be.

      Amusingly, I "know" certain people only through testimonials and have never interacted directly with them or even been in the same communities.
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      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author digichik
    I usually read the comments for any WSO backward, from the last page to the first. The last page has the most current comments. I find I can get a more accurate picture of the offer, in most cases. Just because a newer Warrior gets a review copy, doesn't mean their review is not accurate; just as a review from a more well known Warrior, isn't necessarily more honest. I all depends on the individual.
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  • Profile picture of the author DJL
    I've noted a few forum members who never post negative reviews, so I automatically discount whatever they say.
    Some WSO publishers incorporate in their products a bonus that is offered in return for a positive review on WF. That strikes me as being just a bit shady.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by DJL View Post

      I've noted a few forum members who never post negative reviews, so I automatically discount whatever they say.
      I don't give negative reviews in public. If your product is a piece of crap, you might get a PM. If it's good, I might post in your WSO thread. But in general, I treat other Warriors like any other friend: "you look great in those jeans" is said loudly in front of everyone, and "those pants make your arse look fat" is quietly whispered at the edge of the room when everyone else is distracted.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author Gail_Curran
      Originally Posted by DJL View Post

      Some WSO publishers incorporate in their products a bonus that is offered in return for a positive review on WF. That strikes me as being just a bit shady.
      I think this is actually against the WSO rules. You can ask people to post in your thread, but you are not allowed to offer a bribe, reward or bonus for doing so.
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      • Profile picture of the author dbarnum
        Doesn't matter here. I like to see what the positive and negative points are. Reviewers often point out specifics to look for, even if the products don't turn out to be all polish and glitter, and that's OK.

        [Example: Sometimes people look for too much in purchases with IM products, like the end-all buy where the $27 purchase will run their business forever without their doing anything else - ever. Right.]

        In a nutshell, though, to sum up: for the low cost you often pay, you can find plenty of gems in many products (not all, no, but plenty of them). So reviews can be helpful, no matter who the source, many times.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by DJL View Post

      Some WSO publishers incorporate in their products a bonus that is offered in return for a positive review on WF. That strikes me as being just a bit shady.
      I don't know whether that's against the forum's rules, but their reputations (which ought to be their business's most valuable asset) will gradually suffer from it, and they'll lose potential sales as result.

      Their "karma will run over their dogma".
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  • Profile picture of the author Greg D
    Sometimes it can just work.

    Meaning:

    You do not necessarily have to already have a list or community of your own to launch a successful WSO.

    Sometimes people can tell from the sales copy and the comments back from the OP what kind of person he/she is.

    I feel I am running a very successful WSO.

    It was my first WSO.
    I did not have a list.
    It was my first product. Ever.
    I did NOT give out review copies or solicit reviews. (Basically for the reason being discussed here)

    I monitor the thread and my support email.
    I respond to every comment.
    I listen to the customers and make changes and implement their ideas.
    I am tweaking the product to make it better for the user.

    I have been complimented numerous times on the thread and in the support email about my responses and the support I provide.

    Now, with all that being said. I was lurking on the forum for quite a while before officially joining. I paid close attention to how things seem to 'work'.

    Then once joined, I became active.

    That is what I think has happened to help my WSO to be successful.

    Just my opinion.

    Happy Holidays All!



    Greg
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  • Profile picture of the author Edward Floyd
    I guess it depends who writes the testimonials. For the WSO forum, if the testimonials are from credible warriors with lots of posts or good products then I feel more inclined to take their word seriously. But generally speaking I gloss very quickly over testimonials, though having lots of them seems impressive to me.

    I think they're something you need to have, but they don't really add a whole lot of weight - if that makes sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    Rod, this is a good topic.

    I happen to think the wso testimonial process is becoming corrupted. When wso sellers give out review copies the results are almost always glowing testimonials...with rare exceptions. There are some warriors who now appear to have made an occupation out of providing templated positive testimonials for almost every wso! Its quite amazing how fast their 'reports' appear, almost faster than the wso itself :-)

    Recently I was sent a review copy I never requested, with the notation that I was asked to provide a "positive" testimonial. I only felt obligated to provide a testimonial, period.

    My review rated the product as average or slightly above. However it did point out the significant weaknesses I felt were in the product. Within a few days the seller started a brand new listing of the product, I assume so the less than glowing one (mine) wouldn't appear.
    ...and must have given a way a bunch of review copies because he was flooded with happy testimonials, once again.

    If A Steve Wagenheim or a Paul Myers or an Alexa Smith gave a positive testimonial my ears would perk up....but unknown 'freebee seekers' opinions mean nothing.
    _____
    Bruce
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  • Profile picture of the author Lance K
    Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

    Warriors,

    Every marketer has their own set of biases. One of mine is if I see a testimonial from someone, who I don't know, who admits in their testimonial that they received a review copy, I immediately discount it. It has zero impact on me.

    I'm more curious than anything how you Warriors feel about it.

    Happy Holidays,

    RoD "Where's-My-Eggnog" Cortez
    Rod, I agree.

    When it comes to a testimonial based on a review copy, the list of people whose opinion I trust is small.

    It has nothing to do with the legality of disclosing the nature of the review. If they don't disclose that they got a review copy, they're either ignorant or a scum bag. But that's not the issue.

    The issue is that unless someone has proven to be trustworthy (like you said...Paul Myers for example), a review copy testimonial is a double whammy. First because I don't know, like, & trust them. And second, because of #1, I find it easier to believe that their review could be motivated by reciprocity and/or some form of back scratching shenanigans.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      But Steven, think about it.

      Testimonials are how you know whether people like you are using the product. That's what they're for. So you can look at the people using the product and say "hey, those people seem like me."

      That's where a lot of marketers miss the boat. They have testimonials on their sales page, but the testimonials are neither from people their target market trusts, nor people in their target market.
      Caliban, this brings to mind something that happened some years ago. When Joe Vitale was trying to establish himself in the IM market, one of his strategies was to offer testimonials to be placed with his link on the product sales page.

      With his credentials, it wasn't long before just about every product on the market had Dr. Joe's smiling face telling you how good the product was. It got so common that I, for one, discounted all of the testimonials on the page if I saw Joe's there.

      Maybe this next bit is picking nits, but I've never posted a testimonial based on a free product. The handful of WSO reviews I've posted are reviews, period. Like you, I much prefer to keep negative feedback private, so the reviews I have posted tend to be positive ones...
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        It got so common that I, for one, discounted all of the testimonials on the page if I saw Joe's there.
        You know who did that for me? Reed Floren. He's a great guy, makes great products, he's got integrity, and his reputation is solid. But he used the same image on every single one of his products, and within a month I would click through a link to a sales page... see his picture... and just leave.

        Maybe this next bit is picking nits, but I've never posted a testimonial based on a free product. The handful of WSO reviews I've posted are reviews, period.
        I've been a little anal retentive about this distinction in the past, myself, but I honestly don't think anyone except the person giving the review actually cares about it.

        Well, and the FTC. But they don't care what you call it; they only care whether you disclosed the material facts of your circumstances.

        In the end, I think the world at large thinks a review and a testimonial are pretty much the same thing, on a sales page. After all, since they're on the sales page, they say "you should buy this." If they didn't, they wouldn't be there.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • I personally don't even pay attention to testimonials unless I know the person posting the testimonials.
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  • Profile picture of the author ThisIsMyHealth
    There are certain things I rate as more important in a review than whether or not the person reviewing paid for his copy or not...

    1.) The thoroughness of the review - If it's just a "I skimmed through the first few pages" kind of review or if it seems like he/she just rehashed the sales page - I'm on to more exciting things. BUT if there are multiple references to pages or points in the product (and not that crappy "I like the point on page 10" that's become so popular lately) that give me the feeling the reviewer really studied it, I will give it a closer look.

    2.) The presence of negatives or cons - I have never met a product I have liked 100% and any reviewer that tells me he can't find something wrong with a product immediately loses my attention. Every product has problems and a good reviewer will examine that product until he finds a flaw or push it until it breaks...so he can tell the rest of the world just how far it will go. Any review that doesn't list a product's weak points is not a review...it's an ad.

    Personally I feel those are far more important details than whether the reviewer paid for it, received it as a review copy, or stole it from a torrent site. How he got it is not important to me - how he reviews it is. Course that's just my opinion! ;-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by ThisIsMyHealth View Post

      How he got it is not important to me
      Wow, you don't want to know if he was effectively paid to write it?

      Originally Posted by ThisIsMyHealth View Post

      Course that's just my opinion!
      Indeed ...
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  • Profile picture of the author Millercus25
    I've noted a few forum members who never post negative reviews, so I automatically discount whatever they say.
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