Questions about international ''offline marketing'' business agreements

7 replies
Hello,

I am interested in working with a very nice person who lives in another country. The thing is, I don't know this person very well. We definitely have complimentary resources and expertise, and I can see us doing great things together.

I'll be finding some opportunities, and she will be setting the deals up, managing the money and paying me a %. Very simple.

Here are my questions:

-If the agreement says we are partners, can I be responsible for losses or be held responsible for the consequences that arise out of her actions (e.g. she makes a mistake and gets sued or gets in trouble with the government for not running a tight ship)?

-If I re-write this agreement and remove the word ''partner,'' will our relationship still be considered a partnership in regards to the law? And how about if I write a simple memorandum of understanding? Would that change things?

-I want to protect my a** as much as possible. Will something like, ''Party 1 agrees to waive any right to trial or litigation against party 2'' enough to protect me? In any case, as I stated previously, she'll be doing the work and managing things. With that said, she wants me to share responsibility for ''losses.'' I don't like the sound of it, because it will either work or it won't. If she makes a mistake, I don't want to pay for it.

Thank you for your feedback.

SEO
#agreements #business #international #marketing #offline #questions
  • Profile picture of the author halmo
    My answers are regarding such an arrangement between US people, however, as far as I know, international dealings like this carry even more weight and responsibility. One major reason is that the two countries have different laws.(Actually, your profile doesn't say in which country you live.) The comments below are to show you SOME of the things that should be considered. Take my responses only as basic information regarding US arrangements, but DON'T go with anybody's recommendations (not even mine) other than a lawyer's who deals with international business law exclusively. (No general lawyers, no other types of lawyers.). So, my disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and what I write here should not be considered as legal advice.

    That said, I don't know what scale of business you are talking about -- whether it would be small money that wouldn't justify the costs of talking to a lawyer (in that case I wouldn't do the deal), or if it's more serious money (in which case you should proceed only if you feel comfortable after the lawyer's advice.

    Originally Posted by seobeginner View Post

    Hello,

    I am interested in working with a very nice person who lives in another country. The thing is, I don't know this person very well. We definitely have complimentary resources and expertise, and I can see us doing great things together.

    I'll be finding some opportunities, and she will be setting the deals up, managing the money and paying me a %. Very simple.

    Here are my questions:

    -If the agreement says we are partners, can I be responsible for losses or be held responsible for the consequences that arise out of her actions (e.g. she makes a mistake and gets sued or gets in trouble with the government for not running a tight ship)?

    SEO
    Yes, you will be responsible. Partnership is the weakest form of business arrangement. Even if you don't write and sign any kind of paper, such an arrangement is considered a partnership by default, by law. That means, you are 100% responsible for everything the other person does. Even to the extent of ALL your personal assets and possessions.

    If you write and both of you sign an actual partnership agreement, you can specify what each of you put in, and what each of you will get out (e.g. you put in x, and will get 40% of revenues, etc. Your liability is theoretically limited to those percentages, however, there might be cases when you can still be held fully liable.

    Originally Posted by seobeginner View Post

    Hello,

    -If I re-write this agreement and remove the word ''partner,'' will our relationship still be considered a partnership in regards to the law? And how about if I write a simple memorandum of understanding? Would that change things?

    SEO
    Very likely it would be considered as a partnership, but there is much more wording in the agreement, so this question could not be answered on the basis of only this much information.

    Originally Posted by seobeginner View Post

    Hello,

    -I want to protect my a** as much as possible. Will something like, ''Party 1 agrees to waive any right to trial or litigation against party 2'' enough to protect me? In any case, as I stated previously, she'll be doing the work and managing things. With that said, she wants me to share responsibility for ''losses.'' I don't like the sound of it, because it will either work or it won't. If she makes a mistake, I don't want to pay for it.?

    SEO
    Waiving your right to trial or litigation against the other party would be a VERY foolish thing to do.

    She rightly expects you to share the responsibility for losses and other thungs as well. It wouldn't be fair to her not to. In that case, you could just do all kinds of things for your own benefit, and maker her responsible for all the losses. I am not saying you would, but she has the right to protect herself just as much as you do. In fact, she would be a bad business person if she wouldn't want to protect herself. Besides, losses can occur regardless of both parties' good intentions.

    You can make a mistake too, not only she. She would also be paying for your mistake. You share in the profits, you share in the losses.

    The best way to do business is to set up a legal entity, such as an LLC, or S-corp or C-corp. Which type would be best for your purposes would depend on the type of business, and the preferences of both parties. Again, I don't in which country you are, so, these types of entities might be different.

    Again, best thing is to talk to a lawyer.
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    • Profile picture of the author seobeginner
      A big thanks to both of you for taking the time to help me out. I really appreciate it.

      Originally Posted by halmo View Post

      Waiving your right to trial or litigation against the other party would be a VERY foolish thing to do.
      No, she would be waiving her rights, not me. And she offered to do so.

      Originally Posted by halmo View Post

      She rightly expects you to share the responsibility for losses and other thungs as well. It wouldn't be fair to her not to. In that case, you could just do all kinds of things for your own benefit, and maker her responsible for all the losses.
      I find the opportunities and send the info to her. She acts upon the information I send her and does everything. So she has full control, not me.

      Thanks again,

      SEO
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      • Profile picture of the author halmo
        Originally Posted by seobeginner View Post

        A big thanks to both of you for taking the time to help me out. I really appreciate it.



        No, she would be waiving her rights, not me. And she offered to do so.

        SEO
        You are welcome.

        In this case, I think it would be a foolish thing on her part. I think you should talk about this too with a lawyer. She might be very unaware of business issues, and that might be the reason she is willing to do that. It's better to do business with people who know their own rights too. It could be even messier with someone who doesn't.

        Originally Posted by seobeginner View Post

        .

        I find the opportunities and send the info to her. She acts upon the information I send her and does everything. So she has full control, not me.

        Thanks again,

        SEO
        You are still partners, so your responsibility still exists. Besides, an opportunity itself (which I assume you got through some other people) could be corrupt without you knowing it. In that case, it wouldn't matter that she handled everything and did everything right, she shouldn't have to "eat" all the losses even though you only provided the opportunity.

        I don't mean to sound overly skeptical, but you need to consider these issues.

        As was suggested by other poster, it might be a better way to have your own company (not only a sole proprietorship, but actual company), and she to have her actual company, and the two companies would do business agreements (instead of getting both of you in the same company).

        My disclaimer in Post #2 stands for this post too.
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        • Profile picture of the author bobsilber
          Never take legal advice from a non-lawyer that offers it on a forum or otherwise.
          Consult your attorney or you most likely will have problems that are too costly to repair or beyond correcting.

          It is kind of like getting brain surgery advice from a marketing forum. Not a good idea.

          Why people that are not lawyers continue to offer legal advice is beyond me. Why people accept that advice is way beyond me.
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          • Profile picture of the author halmo
            Originally Posted by bobsilber View Post

            Never take legal advice from a non-lawyer that offers it on a forum or otherwise.
            Consult your attorney or you most likely will have problems that are too costly to repair or beyond correcting.

            It is kind of like getting brain surgery advice from a marketing forum. Not a good idea.

            Why people that are not lawyers continue to offer legal advice is beyond me. Why people accept that advice is way beyond me.
            .
            .
            That's what I said in my first post ... just so you know, in case you haven't read that ... that he shouldn't take legal advice from anybody other than a lawyer who is specifically in that field.

            By the way, a person who is not a lawyer might still have good knowledge of some issues, and give basic information along with a disclaimer that the requester should rely only on a lawyer's advice. See the disclaimer in post #2.
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  • Profile picture of the author auradev
    I'll second that, do not use partner at all, dont even have the word partner in the docs.

    Without knowing the details here is what I do in this type of deal:

    Make my own company and own 100%. Then have outside sales person agreements where when they find business, they get a % of the revenue as a commission.

    Its better to keep control of it.

    Unless you are experienced, its probably better to not be partners with anyone outside of your state. It can be difficult enough dealing with partners in the same city.
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  • Profile picture of the author auradev
    Also, I just had another thought. Any contract you sign might be unenforceable by you. Meaning invalid depending on the country or that it might cost more to enforce it over seas than it would be worth, which makes the contract meaningless.

    For example lets say you guys do well and down the road there is $50K worth of money in dispute. How much is it going to cost to enforce the contract over seas?

    Each trip over there burns $2K and now you need an international lawyer, which is probably twice the cost- so now $1000/hr instead of $500.
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