Over 1 million optins, neither Aweber or GetResponse are good for me, whats's next?

[dangol]

Hi there,

Dan here, I have over 1 million optins between multiple accounts with both companies, Aweber and Getresponse.

Aweber stop working for me the day they force me to go double optin, single optin works a lot better for me, since my marketing is all in spanish, and part of the confirmation message for the double optin process is in english (forced) I get very poor conversion to double optin.

Since then I'm working with GetResponse and they are good, but guess what, today I get an email from their Enterprise Manager telling me that my account is growing to fast (more than 46,000 new optins last week) and he's offering me (forcing me) to upgrade to their dedicated server solution (DEDA) which is even more expensive.

I need your advice!

I'm growing my lists very fast, but it's getting very expensive and very hard to find a right solution, does anyone runs a list with more than 1mm subscribers here?
Can you please help me find the right solution?

Thank you very much,
Best,
Dan Goldsmit

[BlueSquares]

Compañero! 1 Million+??? I'm with GR on this. You definitely need a dedicated solution.

I recommend paying GR the money and finding a way to monetize your list better. How much are they asking for anyways?

If not, you'll need to build a dedicated autoresponder server solution yourself. And that will be a lot harder than simply paying the money to GR. The headaches involved are substantial.

You can't really just 'transfer' to another provider because...

a) most providers will not allow you to import 1 million single optin emails
b) if they do allow it, they'll make your entire list double optin before allowing you to use their service.

[braver55b]

Que Pasa,

This sounds a little too good to be true 46k in one week? If that's the case you should create an ebook or other marketing product on how you did it, There would be alot of takers :-)

Why not keep searching out different autoresponder companies, maybe even some in other spanish speaking countries including Spain itself.

I know aweber and getresponse are the two majors, but they are not the only companies online that offer autoresponders.

Also you can lead them to a page which spells out what they need to do to (step by step) double optin and be subscribed to your newsletter.

[Steven Wagenheim]

My friend, if you have over 1 million opt ins and you can't afford a dedicated
server solution, then there is something terribly wrong with your business
model.

I have less than 5,000 members in my lists and earn over 6 figures a year.

You need to look at what you're doing and see where the problem is because
with that kind of subscription rate, you should be richer than Allen Says
himself.

[chris_surfrider]

The downside of growth...

Just bite the bullet with GR's dedicated hosting.

Shouldn't really even be a factor as an "expense".

From the sounds of it, you'll need all the write-offs you can get.

-Chris

[sparrow]

When you get that big, you need to get your own dedicated solution.

Seems to me this is the only way around this.

Ed

[Michael Mayhew]

Dedicated server and get Autoresponse Plus.
Follow Up Autoresponder and Mailing List Software - AutoResponse Plus

You can then do single optin's and keep growing at a rapid pace.
I've been using ARPlus for years and love it.

[Bearded]

I manage a list of 800k, and we're on Responsys, which is one of the top enterprise-level Email Service Providers.

It's also $15k+ monthly. But for this business, it's more than worth it. When it comes down to deliverability, a single 1% difference can mean $10,000 extra in salesfrom one mailing.

Not to mention Salesforce integration, very robust split-testing, dynamic content on the fly, etc..

Forester puts out a report every year about ESPs.

Some other enterprise level solutions we considered:

YesMail
CheetahMail
eDialog

[Sam Rodrigo]

Sometimes you've got to spend a decent amount of money to make money. Get your hardward together, and focus on moneitizing, ASAP!

Sam

[Oskars]

In this case the best option is dedicated server:
1) dedicated server + mailing software as complete service from one provider;
2) you buy a mailing list software (script) for a one time fee and put it on your dedicated (managed) server you lease for a monthly fee.

The second option is cheaper, the first one is more expensive.

[dangol]

Thank you all for your answers.

Let me just give you more details about my case so you will understand why my needs are kind of different.

1.- My business is doing very well, and we can afford GR solution or others, I just need to find the right one.
2.- My lists are all from spanish speaking users (Latin America countries mainly) so the conversion rates, are a lot different from what you are used to, I can easily tell you that I convert easily 10 times less or more from what you do

Why? many reasons, LatinAmerican users are not very used to buy online (yet) and also the economical and cultural status is a lot different from the US, or European users. Anyway, the business is completely different in numbers from what a regular IM targeting US, UK, etc.. We get a lot of traffic (tons of it) we convert a lot to prospects and then we work very hard in creating a relationship with the user, and become an authority so they will trust us and buy from us.

So yes we can afford to pay more, but we need to make sure that the solution will be able to give us full control over the process and messages the user get's to optin, double optin, optout, etc. so we can translate them to spanish.

On the other side does somebody use the GR DEDA solutions? do you recommend it?

Thanks,
Dan Goldsmit

[chriswight]

Maybe Constant Contact would suit your needs?

[Chris Lockwood]

I'd also like to know how you're getting 46,000 optins a week. I'm sure most of us don't have that many people total on our lists.

Have you asked Aweber about the English-only confirmation message? I'm surprised they don't have an option to change the language (but not the meaning), especially for a major language like Spanish. Maybe they do but don't mention it on their site.

Are you also targeting Spanish-speaking people in the US? Might they be more used to buying online than people in some of the other countries?

[dangol]

Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood

I'd also like to know how you're getting 46,000 optins a week. I'm sure most of us don't have that many people total on our lists.

Have you asked Aweber about the English-only confirmation message? I'm surprised they don't have an option to change the language (but not the meaning), especially for a major language like Spanish. Maybe they do but don't mention it on their site.

Are you also targeting Spanish-speaking people in the US? Might they be more used to buying online than people in some of the other countries?

Hi Chris,

1.- PPC, SEO, Articles, Affiliates, and buying directly from other sites.
2.- Yes I personally spoke over the phone with a customer relationship manager (or something like that) of Aweber and ask her for this option, and they said NO.
3.-Yes and yes, US Hispanics are my top converting traffic but at the same time the most expensive one (make sense)

[daddyoh]

One million total opt-ins & more than 46,000 new optins last week?

Say Dan, how are you getting all that traffic?
Is it from search engines, PPC, social marketing or what?

How about a few tips, please?

Adios,

Daniel

[dangol]

Originally Posted by daddyoh

One million total opt-ins & more than 46,000 new optins last week?

Say Dan, how are you getting all that traffic?
Is it from search engines, PPC, social marketing or what?

How about a few tips, please?

Adios,

Daniel

Hola Daniel,

Again, PPC, SEO, Articles, Affiliates, and buying directly from other sites.

Latin American traffic is cheaper because like all traffic, the poor it converts, less competition = cheaper

At the same time is a challenge to do the right thing in way to monetize it, forget about 3% conversion rates, even 1% will be VERY hard.

[Chris Lockwood]

Originally Posted by dangol

2.- Yes I personally spoke over the phone with a customer relationship manager (or something like that) of Aweber and ask her for this option, and they said NO.

That's too bad- it would not cost them much to have those canned messages officially translated and offer them to people in your situation. A month of the fees you are paying them would probably buy a lot of translating.

[Jose Delgado]

Why not try elabs or infusionsoft?

and 1Million! wow.

I sure hope that old(or is it new? ) saying "$1/Month per subscriber" is working for you.

[dangol]

Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood

That's too bad- it would not cost them much to have those canned messages officially translated and offer them to people in your situation. A month of the fees you are paying them would probably buy a lot of translating.

I agree, it's stupid, I even offered them to translate them myself and they refuse.

[Robert Plank]

Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood

I'd also like to know how you're getting 46,000 optins a week. I'm sure most of us don't have that many people total on our lists.

The easy answer is: he is the next John Reese!!

I met this guy in Austin in May at the Warrior Event... he was really quiet but he knew his stuff!

Dan's situation is... if you could go back in time to 1995 knowing everything you know now about internet marketing... how much ass would you kick?

Dan is building lists, creating squeeze pages and followups, paying for PPC, outsourcing etc. when all his competitors are still struggling to put up simple web pages with animated graphics.

Dan, that sucks Aweber won't help... so pay for the GetResponse dedicated in the meantime. If you tried to switch to any other provider other than Aweber or GetResponse, deliverability would suck...

If you can keep those leads fresh for the next few years you will make the big money when they get credit cards...

[dangol]

Originally Posted by Robert Plank

The easy answer is: he is the next John Reese!!

I met this guy in Austin in May at the Warrior Event... he was really quiet but he knew his stuff!

Dan's situation is... if you could go back in time to 1995 knowing everything you know now about internet marketing... how much ass would you kick?

Dan is building lists, creating squeeze pages and followups, paying for PPC, outsourcing etc. when all his competitors are still struggling to put up simple web pages with animated graphics.

Dan, I would contact Aweber to see if they can customize the confirmation message in Spanish for you... and pay for the GetResponse dedicated in the meantime.

If you can keep those leads fresh for the next few years you will make the big money when they get credit cards...

hahaha hi Robert, nice introduction

I got some good competitors, but in the keyword that you compete with 100 I compete with 5

I personally talked to Aweber customer relationship manager (or something similar) and they refused!

I'm wondering what does John Reese or other guys with huge lists use?

[Robert Plank]

Originally Posted by dangol

hahaha hi Robert, nice introduction

I got some good competitors, but in the keyword that you compete with 100 I compete with 5

I personally talked to Aweber customer relationship manager (or something similar) and they refused!

I'm wondering what does John Reese or other guys with huge lists use?

Oops yeah, I didn't see that part about Aweber not translating until after I posted, and I edited...

The guys with big lists use Aweber from what I've seen.

[Jose Delgado]

Frank kern uses elabs.

As well as the guys from stompernet. (Brad Callen & Andy)

[Chris Lockwood]

Originally Posted by dangol

I'm wondering what does John Reese or other guys with huge lists use?

The easiest way to find out is get on their lists and look for the unsubscribe link. Reese is using something on his server, not one of the major services, at least according to the emails I get from him.

[Jason Fladlien]

Dan! I've been wanting to get ahold of you since austin... but we never got to exchange contact information. I've wanted to check in and see how your business was doing. Glad to see it's exploding. I'd love to chat with you again sometime.

Oh, and Dan does know his stuff too, guys. And he's not doing anything uber-genius here... just good direct response marketing. It's all in the fundamentals...

-Jason

P.S., just in case you don't remember who I am, I'm the article marketing/product creation guy...

[dangol]

Originally Posted by Jose Delgado

Frank kern uses elabs.

As well as the guys from stompernet. (Brad Callen & Andy)

Gracias Jose! I will look into that.

Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood

The easiest way to find out is get on their lists and look for the unsubscribe link. Reese is using something on his server, not one of the major services, at least according to the emails I get from him.

Yes I believe it's a custom solution, both maybe there is a management enterprise solution company behind, will be great to know

[dangol]

Originally Posted by Jason Fladlien

Dan! I've been wanting to get ahold of you since austin... but we never got to exchange contact information. I've wanted to check in and see how your business was doing. Glad to see it's exploding. I'd love to chat with you again sometime.

Oh, and Dan does know his stuff too, guys. And he's not doing anything uber-genius here... just good direct response marketing. It's all in the fundamentals...

-Jason

P.S., just in case you don't remember who I am, I'm the article marketing/product creation guy...

Hi Jason, great to hear from you, just sent you a PM.

[daddyoh]

Hola Daniel,

Again, PPC, SEO, Articles, Affiliates, and buying directly from other sites.

Latin American traffic is cheaper because like all traffic, the poor it converts, less competition = cheaper

At the same time is a challenge to do the right thing in way to monetize it, forget about 3% conversion rates, even 1% will be VERY hard.

Thank you for your answer, Dan!

[Michael Silvester]

Hi Mate,

Congratulations on having that problem!

The person that originally said that you cannot
import another list without them having to confirm
is more than a little wrong.

I really dislike it when people give advice that they
really have no idea about. It really does steer people
in the wrong direction.

Dangol, I'm not sure about elabs, But I know for sure
that you can import your list right into infusionsoft
without skipping a beat.

You can set the system to single or double opt-in and
you have full control over what happens. Your imported
subscribers will not have to confirm their subscription.

You also have way better list segregation than aweber
, getresponse or anyhting else that I have used.

For example...

You can send an email to people that opened your email
and didnt click on the link.

You can send an email to people that opened your email,
clicked on the link, but didnt buy.

There is a heap of stuff that you can do!

I hope this helps mate!

Take Care,

Michael Silvester

[dangol]

Originally Posted by Michael Silvester

Hi Mate,

Congratulations on having that problem!

The person that originally said that you cannot
import another list without them having to confirm
is more than a little wrong.

I really dislike it when people give advice that they
really have no idea about. It really does steer people
in the wrong direction.

Dangol, I'm not sure about elabs, But I know for sure
that you can import your list right into infusionsoft
without skipping a beat.

You can set the system to single or double opt-in and
you have full control over what happens. Your imported
subscribers will not have to confirm their subscription.

You also have way better list segregation than aweber
, getresponse or anyhting else that I have used.

For example...

You can send an email to people that opened your email
and didnt click on the link.

You can send an email to people that opened your email,
clicked on the link, but didnt buy.

There is a heap of stuff that you can do!

I hope this helps mate!

Take Care,

Michael Silvester

Thank you Michael!

Do you currently use infusionsoft?

Do they work like Aweber or GR charging per subscribers volume or it's a fixed price?

Do you know if they allow to customize the front end, emails, to other languages?

Thanks,
Dan

[Adrianne_]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

My friend, if you have over 1 million opt ins and you can't afford a dedicated server solution, then there is something terribly wrong with your business
model.

I have less than 5,000 members in my lists and earn over 6 figures a year.

You need to look at what you're doing and see where the problem is because
with that kind of subscription rate, you should be richer than Allen Says
himself.

I was thinking the same thing. I know upgrading will probably cut into your profits but if it will increase your subscriber base even more, to me its a wash. You'll earn that money back from new sales.

If you don't want to upgrade, then maybe you should change up your subscription a bit. Evaluate how many of these millions of people have actually turned into customers. If the ratio isn't what you want it to be, then find a way to cut out the tire kickers & looky-loos.

[Michael Silvester]

Hi Dangol,

Yes, I use Infusionsoft.
Yes, It is fixed price.
Yes, you will be able to customize the language of the emails.
But you will have to translate it youself.

Take Care,

Michael Silvester

[napoleonfirst]

ProfitSponder is an online based software to manage your list. You only pay once.

[emmedi]

In my opinion, there is a bit of confusion between a sequential autoresponder and a simple email delivery service.

Aweber and Getresponse are sequential autoresponders. So is Infusionsoft, but on a highe price bracket.

If you need a sequential autoresponder, that means if you need to put prospects or clients into an automated sequence of emails, there is little choice for a hosted solution: Aweber, Getresponse (more flexible) or Infusionsoft (the Mercedes of that).

There are other autoresponder script you put on your server, but I wouldn't go this route. The advantage of the hosted services is that they are actively keeping themselves (and you) off the blacklists. It's a full time job and an expensive one. Once your dedicated server get into a blacklist you're doomed and you spend time getting off.

All the other services that have been mentioned aren't sequential autoresponders. Hence they are good at doing broadcasts, but cannot do the automated sequence of emails. And this is all the difference between automated marketing and manual marketing.

Choosing between Aweber, Getresponse or Infusionsoft isn't easy. I didn't try Infusionsoft because it's too expensive for my businesses, but I read it's the best.

As for Aweber, I don't like Aweber policies and interface, but I like its features more than Getresponse ones. However, Getresponse has all the features you want without being oversophisticated and they are far more flexible and willing to help.

So if I have to choose a service, I'd go with Getresponse.

Marco

P.S. You can disable double optin in Aweber, so you don't have to deal with the optin message in English. That's a nuisance for not English speaking users (I am in Italy)

[WinsonYeung]

With such a big list u have gotten, I'm sure u are earning a decent amount. So why don;t you invest it to built your business more ?

[dangol]

Originally Posted by WinsonYeung

With such a big list u have gotten, I'm sure u are earning a decent amount. So why don;t you invest it to built your business more ?

This is what I´m looking for!

I want to invest to go to the next level, I just want to know if someone can assist me with this kind of big lists, you need a reliable company to habdle your deliverability, any one?

Thanks
Dan

[Quatrel]

Dangol,
Unfortunately Infusionsoft will not be a solution for you. There is a lot of hype, but under the hood there is a motorcycle engine ...
There is little support of international characters in the application and you will have to send out html emails for Spanish words to be displayed right.

Forget about plain text emails - all other characters come out as question marks. Grrreat ... :-(

But here is the kicker: all subject lines are totally messed up if you use any sort of non-standard-US character.

Here is a recent Infusionsoft subject line from none other than Yannik silver: =?ANSI_X3.4-1968?Q?[maverick_insider]_3_BIG_annou?=?ANSI_X3.4-1968?Q?ncements_re:_Underground=3F_5...?=‏

His Aweber subject line: 3 BIG announcements re: Underground® 5‏

His downfall was the registered character. Same crap happens with cedillas, umlauts etc.

The names and addresses store correctly, but do not display properly in screens and reports. Very trying and infuriating ...

Add to that that you can only use USD in the shopping cart and you have an application that is limping through international direct marketing.

It looks nice on paper, but it is still a software dinosuar and judging the responses from their support dept. it is going to take a very, very, very, very, very long time before this is fixed.

In order to circumnavigate these limitations, you have to be very careful in setting up your templates etc. and use other shopping carts - which then bring extra expense and complication - which actually it is being sold to eliminate.

Apart from that, some other international users say that their deliverability is not good.

Best of luck with your project
Conrad

[TheRichJerksNet]

I would build my own custom system and not leave my list up to some other company.. Would it cost ? Well sure but you have already had problems and in order to not run into those problems later on it's best to build your own system the way you want it..

James

[dangol]

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

I would build my own custom system and not leave my list up to some other company.. Would it cost ? Well sure but you have already had problems and in order to not run into those problems later on it's best to build your own system the way you want it..

James

Hi James,

I totally agree with you and thanks for the advice!

The issue is not the system, is the deliverability with the ISPs, and warming the IPs and many other techie challenges that need great knowledge, does anybody knows about this? how to get help? where?

Thanks,
Dan

[georgeslater]

Dear Dangol

Just some clarifications on Infusionsoft. There is a entry cost, a monthly charge and there probably would be an extra charge for that main clients.

The shopping cart does support uk, ZA and any dollar curreny as long as you have the merchant account and in country prossor who is intergrated to Infisionsoft. Same for Sales Foms (your paypal account is set to the main currency that your paypal is set to in the shopping cart) I have clients with USD, NZ, AUD, UK Pound accounts in one system.

The very good piont about Infusionsoft for you is that it really does allow you to set up systems that deliver very personalised messages dependant on what the client does. Added to that the use of the API can really Turbo power things.

Quartel is very correct when he highlights the issues with non English Charaters in the Database itself and in the Email system. Their are work arounds but they do take effort and careful testing.

Hope this helps

[twannahiga]

Try upgrading to autoresponder plus, for more extensive and flexible options, you can manage up to 800,000 on their program. Another great one to consider is Responsys, which is one of the top level email service providers, many people have reccomeneded it to me! Hope this assists!