Want to be my partner?

by donnan
50 replies
I am starting a site about Marketing Trash.

Members can write reviews or comment on ebooks or digital products and give them a rating.

It's time we have some way to work out what is garbage and what is not.

Anyone interested?
#partner
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Sites like this normally end up being populated with comments and posts from disgruntled trolls and unethical competitors trying to trash other people's products. It ends up being far more negative than positive IMHO.
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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    Well, lets face it. Everyone has been unhappy at one time or another. If someone is really that unhappy, surely they must have a good reason for it. That's the idea of the site.

    Unethical competitors.....I am not sure about that. Most of these ebooks claim they are the only ones that have the magic answer. So wouldn't that mean there is no real competitor if the product is that unique. That's the whole idea of this site is to be able to weed out the trash.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Suzanne,

    Especially when the assumption is stated so clearly in the suggested title: Marketing Trash.

    That site is doomed to become a haven for lies and slander already. Plus a very large dose of anger expressed by people who don't understand what they've bought. And, a very small sliver of legitimate reviews on both sides of the line.


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Suzanne,

      Especially when the assumption is stated so clearly in the suggested title: Marketing Trash.

      That site is doomed to become a haven for lies and slander already. Plus a very large dose of anger expressed by people who don't understand what they've bought. And, a very small sliver of legitimate reviews on both sides of the line.


      Paul
      Agree completely. Never seen one yet that wasn't a haven for lies, slander, etc. Tiffany Dow does product reviews on her blog and from what I can see, they are comprehensive, fair and objective. She actually takes the time to implement the product and reviews as this is being done. Some of the reviews are very positive and some less so, but none of it is done out of anger or any other nefarious motive. It's not often that this is done very well.
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Suzanne,

      Especially when the assumption is stated so clearly in the suggested title: Marketing Trash.

      That site is doomed to become a haven for lies and slander already. Plus a very large dose of anger expressed by people who don't understand what they've bought. And, a very small sliver of legitimate reviews on both sides of the line.


      Paul
      Instead, call it fairandbalancedmarketinganalysis.com or something like that...
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    If someone is really that unhappy, surely they must have a good reason for it.
    Even if they do, how do you know it's related to the quality of the product?

    And no, the fact that someone posts wildly negative comments doesn't usually have anything to do with "good reasons" as most people would understand the term in this context.

    Start your site. See for yourself. It will be one of the most unpleasant lessons you ever have in the dark side of the human race.


    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    Wow, that is a negative response Paul.

    You seem very sure that there will be no systems in place to try and help to limit that sort of thing from happening. It will be a member based site so members will have rules and boundaries to abide by just as this site does.

    How do you know, it could turn out to be a very valuable asset to IM.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Wow, that is a negative response Paul.
      I'm sure it seems like it. Notice that I am not suggesting against it, nor making any comment about you in those replies. Go for it. When you see what you have to deal with, you'll understand my point. Until you actually experience it, you probably won't.

      There are ways such a site could be made to work, but you haven't the experience yet to implement them. Especially given that there's no way to do it right that would lead to you making any money at all, and you'd have to spend a lot of time and energy keeping the system clean.

      Here are the basics:

      No mention of merchants by name, at all. None.

      No links to sales pages, direct or indirect. Not anywhere on the site.

      Any comment about a feature must be specific and detailed.

      No anonymous postings. Use a real name and a link to a site which shows the owner's info in the whois listings.

      Those are just the basics. Do those things and you will get more crap from people about your standards than you'll ever want to deal with. That alone will be all the lesson you'll need. Keep on in spite of that, and you might make it work.

      Otherwise, I suggest stocking up on headache remedies and Tums.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author sgsmorgan
    Originally Posted by donnan View Post

    I am starting a site about Marketing Trash.

    Members can write reviews or comment on ebooks or digital products and give them a rating.

    It's time we have some way to work out what is garbage and what is not.

    Anyone interested?
    Very noble idea and I'm not trying to be disrespectful in any way shape or form but the potential here for some sort of Internet Lynch Parade is extremely likely.

    After all one man's trash is another mans treasure.

    Opinions get very very heated very quickly even on places like this and the potential for someone to use a platform like this for a hidden agenda could be too much to turn down. I've met some very plausible and very personable con merchants so questions of proberty and value become very very subjective.

    I know where you are coming from but the downside is that too many folks hide behind manufactired "personas" on forums like this and it is very difficult to tell who's real and who's not.

    Just my 2p
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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    Yes, I am sure there will be some interesting hurdles to overcome to create a site that will be of value and not a site where a lynch is held on a regular basis.

    I appreciate your comments guys and I can see there will be a challenge to deliver a site that Internet Marketers will find as handy tool to help them make a decision whether to purchase a product or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    The more I think about it.....this will not be as hard as one thinks to overcome the problem of people trying to give a product a bad rap.

    These are just off the top of the head. Better wording and questions would need to be developed.

    I could have a number of different ranks such as:

    Was the marketing of the product precise: vote 1 to 10
    Did you get what you thought you would get: vote 1 to 10
    Where the claims in the product exagerated: vote 1 to 10
    Would you recommend this to a friend : vote 1 to 10
    Was the price worth what you got: vote 1 to 10
    Did you expect more detail: vote 1 to 10.

    I could work it so.....if a product gets a certain score then the user would not be able to add a comment on the product.

    If the user gives a good score or a high overall score then a comment could be added.

    There will be ways to overcome the problems you mention. It will just take some careful thought.

    Come on guys ...don't be so negative about it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Hi donnan,

      Originally Posted by donnan View Post

      Come on guys ...don't be so negative about it.
      And in that spirit...maybe you should consider changing the name of your site to something more, um, neutral. Otherwise, you'll risk attracting visitors and contributors from just one side of the spectrum.

      As an aside, I can't see a product owner, even with a glowing review, proudly proclaiming "As Recommended By Marketing Trash" on his sales page.


      Frank
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by donnan View Post

      Come on guys ...don't be so negative about it.
      Go for it. If you want to do it ... do it.
      I have rarely ever done something without learning something from the process, so if knowledge is all you take away from the project, it's still a win.

      I'd rather spend my time developing ideas that can contribute to my income and are a positive experience rather than focused on negatives, but don't let our thoughts on the idea deter you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Paul you assume I have no experience. Is that because I have only been a member here a short while?
        I assume nothing about your experience except in this specific area. Those assumptions are based only on what you've posted in this thread.

        You have no idea the hassles you're begging for with this. None. Doing this right would consume more of your day than you will believe at the moment.

        I have several times suggested that you go for it, yes? I'm just trying to let you know what you're getting into with the idea. The more traction you get in this market, the more people will try to leverage your efforts for their own ends. And, in a review site, that's the kiss of death.

        The real hassles won't likely appear right away. They'll start to sneak in if you become successful with it. Things will start to slant in an externally created direction. If you're really self-aware and really vigilant, you won't become cynical and jaded. But, if you manage to avoid that, you'll attract even more attention from the psychopaths who refuse to accept that they can't have everything their own way.

        And you'll have to be very careful not to ever believe your own press, positive or negative. That's a hard trap for most people to avoid. We all want to put weight in the good things people say about us, and we never notice that this makes us vulnerable to giving weight to the bad things, even when they're lies.

        The better known you get, the more people will try to use your own success, access or visibility against you.

        I've seen this process over. Very few people do well under that kind of pressure. Because they let it become pressure.

        Like I said, it's a useful lesson. Go for it.


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Nope. You don't have the experience.

    Go with the idea. Watch what happens. And pay attention to the IPs of the responders, along with repeating patterns. You'll learn a lot of useful things in the process. Some of them will be ugly, but that's part of this industry.

    By the way... There is a large difference between negativity and recognizing an unpleasant reality, based on decades of hands-on experience.


    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    If someone was that mad or angry about a product they would most likely want to rate it at the lowest value for everything, so that alone would show interested buyers that this is one angry person, but if there are positive responses along side this product it would then leave the reader to make their own judgement based on the comments of the positive feedback.

    That is the objective of the site. I think it will give the buyer a little more insight into whether they should buy the product.
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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    Paul you assume I have no experience. Is that because I have only been a member here a short while?

    It seems you think I have no experience with dealing with ugly people. I can assure you I have had more experience than you know.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gail_Curran
      Dang, I wish Paul Myers had been around to discourage me from some of my more ill-conceived ideas. Some people don't know how lucky they are.
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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    GREAT point Frank. Nice to get some positive constructive feedback.

    Thanks mate.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    If someone is really that unhappy, surely they must have a good reason for it.
    Oh this is SO untrue on SO many levels...
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  • Not only will marketers spam your site with self positive reviews and competition negative reviews, but their affiliates will as well.

    I don't want to downplay your idea, it's a good one. But maybe you should make it a pay to enter style site, to prevent spam.

    Edit: And lisa is spot on.
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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    Well I have to say people have told me before I shouldn't do something. I have one site in mind I ended up turning that into a $1 milliion + year site.

    I also have other sites people told me would never do any good.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hlatky
      Originally Posted by donnan View Post

      Well I have to say people have told me before I shouldn't do something. I have one site in mind I ended up turning that into a $1 milliion + year site.

      I also have other sites people told me would never do any good.

      Mind sharing that $1 million per year site?
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    What I've found in my limited experience is that the people who are most apt to run around, hands flailing in the air, screaming "It's a scam!" Or "He's a total scam artist!" are those people that have been told something they don't like, such as "there are no refunds", or "yes, you actually DO have to work to make money".

    LOL

    But that's just my two, maybe three, cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    I am hearing you all and I do appreciate your input, even though I was hoping people would be more positive about it. But hey, I have broad shoulders. I will just have to prove you all wrong and that a very professional and valuable site can be made from this.

    Of course with a change of name, thanks to Frank.
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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    Thanks Paul. I am hearing you, believe me. I know there is a lot of ugly out there.
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  • Profile picture of the author HiAbby
    It's not a horrible idea, but the site should definitely have a more productive name
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  • Profile picture of the author 919492
    Why don't you buy all the products and review them yourself.. Then you could have a good service..
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  • Profile picture of the author WillDL
    I'd be afraid to make a site like that, but if I were making it there are a couple of things I'd do.

    -Users can't post links. Ever, under any circumstances. Posts with links get delted and that user banned. Its the only way I can think of to stop people posting affiliate links.

    -Must create account to post a review or comment. Accounts would have to be verified and include a listing of products you created or for which you are an affiliate.
    If accounts are verified you'll have less people creating multiple accounts, or rating a product multiple times.


    -First X number of comments are reviewed by the admin until you have successfully posted X reviews. Have very high standards for comments. This way people have to bother creating 10 or 20 good reviews before they even have the possibility of scam reviews. If you are lucky the 5star rating average will balance out the one start reviews from competitors and five star reviews from affiliates to let actual user reviews be the deciding factor.

    EDIT: I lied. If I were to make a review site to really help people out this is what I would do.

    1) Promise to never, ever be an affiliate for any of the products I review.
    2) Buy the product myself, or allow the product creator to donate one for future review. I would never take money from the product owner.
    3) Using nothing but the product I would see if it worked.
    4) I'd post a generic star rated review with one sentence blurb to my site and list.
    5) Allow customers to buy individual reviews for $3-$4 or a monthly subscription for $15-$20.

    Of course that only works if you have an absolutely dynamite reputation for honesty and integrity.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Donnan, it's a noble idea, but I have a real feeling you'll end up spending your days jousting with windmills.

      If I read your rating system idea correctly, you'd filter out the lynch mobs by only allowing comments when the numerical review is sufficiently positive.

      If that's right, I've got four words for you...

      "Send in the shills"

      Take a look at sites like Fiverr and Amazon's Mechanical Turk. See how cheap it would be to flood your site with glowing reviews and stellar ratings.

      I do think that with enough time and sweat invested you could have the site you envision. If it really is a valuable source of unbiased hive knowledge, I just don't see how you'd make any money with it...
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      • Profile picture of the author cashcow
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Take a look at sites like Fiverr and Amazon's Mechanical Turk. See how cheap it would be to flood your site with glowing reviews and stellar ratings.
        I was just thinking the same thing John (proving that great minds do think alike!)

        The sad thing is that there are a lot of people out there who will do just about anything to make their product look good and their competitors look bad.

        Lee
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        Gone Fishing
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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    Great input thanks WillDl. As I mentioned earlier that there will be some definate rules and boundries that members would have to abide by.

    Using IP address's will also limit the amount of members creating duplicate accounts. I could also put a balance system in place. For every negative review there must be ? positives. But that will need to be looked at closed to see how it will work.

    Getting some great ideas now guys.

    It's amazing what can come from a positive approach.
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    • Think about this donna, how can you make the site worthwhile for site owners and product owners to send their members your way?
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      • Profile picture of the author donnan
        Just imagine, if I happen to come up with a way to want site owners to be knocking on the door to list their product and review it.

        Now if I tell you how I can achieve this that would be letting the cat out of the bag.

        Originally Posted by Chris The Traffic Blogger View Post

        Think about this donna, how can you make the site worthwhile for site owners and product owners to send their members your way?
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by donnan View Post

          Just imagine, if I happen to come up with a way to want site owners to be knocking on the door to list their product and review it.

          Now if I tell you how I can achieve this that would be letting the cat out of the bag.
          Ah, the mission has changed.

          If I were a product owner of dubious ethics, I'd be interested in listing my product on a site that required reviews to skew positive, and to which I could direct an army of shills to really skew things in my favor.

          I'm guessing that said listings would not be free, either...
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          • Profile picture of the author GlobalTrader
            At the risk of being labeled negative, but asking a realistic question - Isn't this the same reason many people come to WF? What is the added value of getting the same information elsewhere?
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by donnan View Post

      Great input thanks WillDl. As I mentioned earlier that there will be some definate rules and boundries that members would have to abide by.

      Using IP address's will also limit the amount of members creating duplicate accounts. I could also put a balance system in place. For every negative review there must be ? positives. But that will need to be looked at closed to see how it will work.

      Getting some great ideas now guys.

      It's amazing what can come from a positive approach.
      As I see it, once you start artificially balancing reviews using some arbitrary ratio, you lose the whole point of your site -- "some way to work out what is garbage and what is not."

      How could anyone tell if a product is garbage if there had to be an X:1 ratio of good reviews to bad ones?

      Rules and boundaries are fine, but it's a precarious balancing act between maintaining order and compromising the mission.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnsmart
    Well just like morgan has rightly said and am not being disrespectful. Another mans trash is another mans treasure. It might work for some and a complete disappointment for some.
    Well is good to try tho

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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    Ok, new name. How about "Marketing Hot Property"?

    Now that sounds better! Recommended by "Marketing Hot Property".
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Your concept is very similar to hosting review sites. Most of the user submitted reviews are from dissatisfied customers looking to vent or the competition trying to harm a competitor. The ones from actual customers only tell the details that support their opinion and leave out those that don't. Often the negative experience is the fault of the customer, not the host. Of the few positive reviews, a big percentage are from shills.

    I understand you want to provide a useful service, but unless you find an effective way to eliminate all the crap, you'll more likely be doing a disservice to legitimate businesses than anything else -- so be very careful how you set it up, as I'm sure you do not want to harm legitimate businesses offering good products and services.

    Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    It brings me back to where this thread started. "Want to be my partner"?
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  • Profile picture of the author rusty1027
    I think the number of responses and views this thread has gotten since noon today is indicative that you're on to something. It will be a challenge to weed out the massive amount of junk posts that you will inevitably get, but I'll bet even the warriors who immediately said this was a bad idea will be subscribers.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillDL
    In my opinion, that name goes too far in the other direction. it sounds like they bought your approval.

    Go neutral, think Consumer Reports, Kelly's Blue Book. If your business is truth the name should not include phrases like "trash" or "hot property" they are too biased one way or the other.
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  • Profile picture of the author ReachOneMedia
    Why would you want to focus on trash.... focus on gold you will attract more positive feedback from people.

    Make a site where people can make positive comments about a product

    "stay too long surrounded by manure and you will start smelling like it" I think you don't want to have that reputation

    my 2 cent
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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    Thank you for your input guys. It's certainly getting some interesting responses.

    Keeping this sort of site unbiased and balanced will be a great challenge but I am an optimist. I am open to learning from mistakes and don't punish myself for putting myself in a learning position.

    The idea is to try and find what is junk and what is quality, who better to tell you that than the members of the site. This site will need to change with the times and I will need to learn how best to see that products get a fair trial. Going on the number of ebooks I have there is alot of them I wouldn't pay 2 cents for and others that are worth their weight in gold.

    Using this sort of site is something you choose to do, if you don't like what's on it you don't visit it. It's as simple as that!

    Finding a fair way to make this site work is a prime goal. That will be an ongoing process. No different than how google makes one site more relevant than another. It's all a process. It will have it's negatives and nasties, but show me a site that doesn't.

    Whenever there is alot of people on a site there is going to be some nasty things going on. Hopefully the right rules, boundaries and limitations will make it a worthy site for you guys to review it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Members can write reviews or comment on ebooks or digital products and give them a rating.
      How much are you paying me to do this? Cause I can currently do this on my on sites - so I need to know if I will make more money adding my precious content to your site.
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  • Profile picture of the author donnan
    Wow, Tim, talk about open slather.

    That is certainly NOT what I have in mind. Alot of very good business's could suffer from the way that is run. It shows me what NOT to do, that is for sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    "Want to be my partner"?
    As in domestic or... ?

    Dennis Gaskill (reply #37) summed up my thoughts.

    If you could create a site that gave honest reviews and the additional comments were legitimate, it would be a great resource.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Originally Posted by donnan View Post

    I am starting a site about Marketing Trash.

    Members can write reviews or comment on ebooks or digital products and give them a rating.

    It's time we have some way to work out what is garbage and what is not.

    Anyone interested?
    The problem here is that people can be not satisfied/happy for various reasons - and they do not always necessarily reflect on the product or the quality of a product.

    People who are ranting on their own blogs or sites like ripoffreport often do that HIGHLY emotional, or they talk from one of their own experiences they had with a person or product while the rest might NOT have experienced such problems.

    It's very often subjective and various motivations can be behind it.
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