My Passion for MLM is GONE

by astnpwrz 149 replies
I want to get straight to the point. I was introduced to MLM when I was 18 (about 6 yrs ago) and I dont need to go into details about how it turned out. I was supposed to retire by 22 LOL. You all know how the story goes. Anyway...i didnt realize it then, but my whole purpose for getting in to it was money and the promise of early retirement. Mostly money. There was actually NO kind of substance behind what I was doing + no prospecting skills. So I didnt work out for me. Once I figured out im actually NOT interested in that kind of "business model" I felt a huge weight off my shoulders. After discovering REAL marketing through IM, I found what I was really interested in. I love looking at numbers, conversions etc. and the better I become the more money I make. Money is just a by product. The next step is to move on the local stuff. A way to help even more people. Thanks to those who read this.

P.S. mlm doesnt suck, its just not for everybody. I prefer direct sales. Cheers
#main internet marketing discussion forum #mlm #passion
  • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
    I don't blame you because it's a seriously flawed system. You're basically taking ordinary people and trying to turn them into salesmen (I know, it's sharing ;-) ;-)
    But they're not able to handle the rejection from their friends and family and go bust rather quickly. Sure it looks simple on paper, you get 2, and they get 2....etc.etc
    But the chain breaks right from the start it most cases.
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    • Profile picture of the author suemax
      Originally Posted by Vincenzo Oliva View Post

      I don't blame you because it's a seriously flawed system. You're basically taking ordinary people and trying to turn them into salesmen (I know, it's sharing ;-) ;-)
      But they're not able to handle the rejection from their friends and family and go bust rather quickly. Sure it looks simple on paper, you get 2, and they get 2....etc.etc
      But the chain breaks right from the start it most cases.
      What I usually ask people when they compare MLM with IM is this. "Do you offer your affiliate products / ebooks (whatever they are selling online) to your friends and family too?"
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimspeed
    man.. i think EVERYONE starts at MLM at one point or another.
    LOL- it just sounds...soo ..good..
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    • Profile picture of the author Ralph Moore
      The attraction of MLM is strong, when the 'pitch' is done properly.

      Fortunately, I'm pretty good at math.

      Many, many years ago there was a company called Holiday Magic Cosmetics out of California.

      My best friend tried pitching it to me until I ran the numbers.

      I explained, and he quickly agreed, that in order to reach the income results that had been hyped, we would have had to recruit 1/2 of the population of Indianapolis and they in turn would have HAD to sell to the other half on a regular basis.

      Since then, I have noticed certain comparable products selling on QVC for a fraction of their MLM clones.

      Funny and sad at the same time. Not for me.
      ~
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    • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
      Originally Posted by Jimspeed View Post

      man.. i think EVERYONE starts at MLM at one point or another.
      LOL- it just sounds...soo ..good..
      Sounds like a scam to most intelligent people.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by JackPowers View Post

        Sounds like a scam to most intelligent people.
        Yeah... know what you mean... a whole bunch of my friends
        earn 6 figure incomes in MLM... buncha nimwits...

        Tsnyder
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

          Yeah... know what you mean... a whole bunch of my friends
          earn 6 figure incomes in MLM... buncha nimwits...

          Tsnyder
          How much of that is from sales of product, and how much is from sales of "support materials" and "system" or "training" related things? A rough percentage is fine.

          All the best,
          Michael
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

            How much of that is from sales of product, and how much is from sales of "support materials" and "system" or "training" related things? A rough percentage is fine.
            I can't answer for Terry, Michael (though I can imagine his answer), but in the case of my friends with multiple 6-figure incomes through MLM, the income is derived solely and exclusively through legitimate sales of the companies' products (because they don't work with scammy companies and anything else would be illegal).

            The business model didn't suit me, personally, in spite of my own short involvement with the world's biggest MLM company (which also happens to be a supremely ethical one), and I was actually glad to drop out of it. But that was my failing, not any failing of the business model or the company in itself, which has flourished for many decades, is well regulated, and so on.

            For a distributor, 0% is a very good figure for profits from "support materials" and "system" and "training"-related things. If they want to stay out of jail and be involved with a company that both survives for the long term and avoids a constant trail of regulatory litigation. (In many countries, anyway). I'm just saying.

            My passion for MLM is gone, too. But not that of everyone I know - and very successful some of them are. It is, however, a supremely misunderstood business model, and there are hundreds of illegal scams and pyramids around - especially in this economy - pretending to be MLM.
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                So there were no "optional" meetings?
                Just some optional ones, no "optional" ones. (I only ever went to a couple of very local ones, in a year).

                Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                No recommended CDs, books or other things? No seminars?
                Plenty available (and some very good), but no profits made by anyone promoting/recommending/selling them, obviously.

                Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                If we are talking about the same MLM, and I think we are
                I suspect we're not, Michael: I suspect you're talking about AmWay, believing that to be the world's biggest MLM company, because I mentioned that the one I was in was the biggest? Noooooo ... I wouldn't touch AmWay, myself. They have exactly the sort of reputation that tarnishes the whole industry, together with a history of regulatory litigation in many countries!

                I was in a company called "Forever Living Products", which I thought (and still think) is a pretty good one, and the products that I dealt with were certainly very good, and not "dressed up stuff" available in stores at lower prices. The company's many decades old (I think not quite as old as AmWay) and owns and controls most of the world's supply of Aloe Vera, and has over 9,000,000 distributors in over 150 different countries. In spite of all that, a lot of people have barely heard of it because most of their distributors have far more sense than to try to promote it online. It's known in the industry as "the sleeping giant". I do think it's a pretty good company, as these things go, although as I said, I'm pleased to be out of the industry, myself, just because nowadays it has such a bad image from all the scams, pyramids and crooked businesses pretending to be MLM. :p
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                • Profile picture of the author fred67
                  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


                  I'm pleased to be out of the industry, myself, just because nowadays it has such a bad image from all the scams, pyramids and crooked businesses pretending to be MLM. :p
                  Alexa, I'm surprised that you made that statement as there are far 'MORE' Scams and Crooked businesses in the IM industry than there has 'ever' been in MLM - and it just gets worse.

                  This is not a criticism by the way, just a point of interest <{:-)

                  Pete.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by fred67 View Post

                    Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                    I'm pleased to be out of the industry, myself, just because nowadays it has such a bad image from all the scams, pyramids and crooked businesses pretending to be MLM. :p
                    Alexa, I'm surprised that you made that statement as there are far 'MORE' Scams and Crooked businesses in the IM industry than there has 'ever' been in MLM - and it just gets worse.
                    I hear you ... and don't dispute it at all.

                    However, for my own purposes, in internet marketing I've found ways of coping with that, without it affecting my own reputation adversely, and without even encountering the "Eewww, not likely" reaction that you get so often - understandably - when the general public hears the words "network marketing".

                    In MLM, one is inevitably promoting the business opportunity as well as the products. Some people in internet marketing do a similar thing (i.e. promoting "money-making opportunities"). I don't.
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                • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
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                  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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            • Profile picture of the author TimG
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              I can't answer for Terry, Michael (though I can imagine his answer), but in the case of my friends with multiple 6-figure incomes through MLM, the income is derived solely and exclusively through legitimate sales of the companies' products (because they don't work with scammy companies and anything else would be illegal).

              The business model didn't suit me, personally, in spite of my own short involvement with the world's biggest MLM company (which also happens to be a supremely ethical one), and I was actually glad to drop out of it. But that was my failing, not any failing of the business model or the company in itself, which has flourished for many decades, is well regulated, and so on.

              For a distributor, 0% is a very good figure for profits from "support materials" and "system" and "training"-related things. If they want to stay out of jail and be involved with a company that both survives for the long term and avoids a constant trail of regulatory litigation. (In many countries, anyway). I'm just saying.

              My passion for MLM is gone, too. But not that of everyone I know - and very successful some of them are. It is, however, a supremely misunderstood business model, and there are hundreds of illegal scams and pyramids around - especially in this economy - pretending to be MLM.
              Like most of us I've been involved with several companies that were MLM at the end of the day. One I did ok with, another I did horrible with and the third (which I am still a part of), I am doing much, much better with.

              I believe there a couple of reasons for the success I am seeing:

              1 - The products are simply awesome and that is where the biggest difference between a good MLM company and a poor MLM company. It takes more then the marketer to be passionaite about the product...you must have customers passionaite abou tthe product or you are screwed from the very beginning.

              2 - The system must be easy to replicate

              3 - The training must be top notch and free so no taking advantage of selling "how to succeed" garbage.

              4 - I've become smarter and more educated on building relationships and not just going for a sale and nothing else.

              One thing I like about this current company I'm with is they don't even pay you for recruiting a downline member.

              You do get residual from their sales but not from the initial recruitment which is nice becaue to many MLM companies focus on paying for recruiting someone which then has everyone trying to con folks into joining instead of mentoring those that want to join.

              Respectfully,
              Tim
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          • Profile picture of the author missm2m
            Remembering back when....

            Commissions were earned primarily, if not totally, on sales of products.

            Sales aids, training materials etc were primarily where the company itself earned, and earned big.

            If you were giving a 'seminar'... and charging your 'own' people, it was usually just a few dollars to cover a room.

            Basically, all your money came from the sale of products.

            What is so sad...and I say sad lightly, is that that is where the notorious 'garage full of inventory' picture came in.

            You had to keep ordering product, under pressure from the upline. Keep ordering product so you could 'get a commission check'... it was a constant vicious circle. The product accumulated. Selling it? How could you sell it when you were yes, 'sharing' it....

            Thankfully, I never got to that point. I knew some who did. They literally had boxes piled high..in the garage...

            I did step out though, long enough and crazy enough, to say I've been there. I've actually checked periodically throughout the years to see...who's where today. It's so interesting when I find one or two.

            And that leads me to the thought I had to reply with.

            One of the replies ? mentioned " some? of his friends make 6 figures... etc"....?? something like that..

            That's just it. It's always, always.....always..... some. It just works that way. I've never seen it not work that way.... the some might be a bigger some in some companies than others......but, it's always.... some!!

            Yet they promise and promote that "anyone can do this"....."anyone can get there if..."

            But it's always, some.

            Where are the thousands of others. Thousands and thousands and thousands....

            Really. Where are they?

            The OP is one.... and he's in the company of the zillions of others.

            Just works that way.

            Well, my thought anyhow. I have no feelings one way or the other about MLM...I just see it as it works that way.... simply.
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            • Profile picture of the author missm2m
              Oh... I see, it's "a whole bunch" of his friends.....

              Same thing. What's a whole bunch out of zillions... really.

              A "whole bunch" in over 30 years... really. Is that like a "whole lot" ?

              The real numbers don't lie.
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              • Profile picture of the author missm2m
                "Truly successful
                MLMers don't do that kind of crap and never have."

                P.S.again....

                I don't want to bash Tsnyder's post at all...but it's comments like above that compel me to reply.

                In my own experience with the MLM industry as a whole that comment is completely untrue.

                In fact the 'truly successful' (whatever that means!).... so called 'them/they' even boast and rave and train that they did exactly that!

                Read any of the old books from years on end... listen to them, their "tapes"....! they'll go on and on about how they trudged up the road and back carrying their cases... how they called "everyone they knew" and "started" with them!

                They're full of stories and proud of them!

                They DID do that. They did it all and were glad to shout it from the top of their podiums!

                It's all you heard. And read.

                The "real" success stories.

                I suppose today with the internet, the "new" guys on the block....it's a little different.

                But Tsnyder is talking about 30 years here...

                And I felt compelled... because it might 'save' one trudging hopeful from trudging too far...

                Again, MLM is it's own world. And I'm not discounting the "handful" that make it to that status...

                Just saying.....it's it's own world, like everything.

                Great comments!
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                • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
                  Originally Posted by missm2m View Post

                  "Truly successful
                  MLMers don't do that kind of crap and never have."

                  P.S.again....

                  I don't want to bash Tsnyder's post at all...but it's comments like above that compel me to reply.

                  In my own experience with the MLM industry as a whole that comment is completely untrue.

                  In fact the 'truly successful' (whatever that means!).... so called 'them/they' even boast and rave and train that they did exactly that!

                  Read any of the old books from years on end... listen to them, their "tapes"....! they'll go on and on about how they trudged up the road and back carrying their cases... how they called "everyone they knew" and "started" with them!

                  They're full of stories and proud of them!

                  They DID do that. They did it all and were glad to shout it from the top of their podiums!

                  It's all you heard. And read.

                  The "real" success stories.

                  I suppose today with the internet, the "new" guys on the block....it's a little different.

                  But Tsnyder is talking about 30 years here...

                  And I felt compelled... because it might 'save' one trudging hopeful from trudging too far...

                  Again, MLM is it's own world. And I'm not discounting the "handful" that make it to that status...

                  Just saying.....it's it's own world, like everything.

                  Great comments!
                  Your experience differs greatly from mine.

                  In my experience true professionals have never chased anyone
                  around... friends, family or anyone else.

                  In my experience true professionals have never schlepped anything
                  up and down any streets or knocked on any doors. Sounds like a bunch
                  of old time Amway or Fuller Brush people.

                  As for the "handful" of people who make it to whatever status
                  you have in mind I'd say that handful is no different than in any
                  other industry.

                  Tsnyder
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                  If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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                  • Profile picture of the author missm2m
                    Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

                    Your experience differs greatly from mine.

                    In my experience true professionals have never chased anyone
                    around... friends, family or anyone else.

                    In my experience true professionals have never schlepped anything
                    up and down any streets or knocked on any doors. Sounds like a bunch
                    of old time Amway or Fuller Brush people.

                    As for the "handful" of people who make it to whatever status
                    you have in mind I'd say that handful is no different than in any
                    other industry.

                    Tsnyder
                    Never said anything about schlepping something up and down any streets. Chasing family and friends, that was THE (and still is in many mlm cos) #1 starting point. That's precisely why it got such a bad name, family and friends tired of hearing the pitch, you hear and read about it all the time. That's why people say they don't do 'that'.

                    In all reality, if you can't recommend your mlm product to those closest to you, then why not? Because... of the nature of the beast. In order to get the 'best price/deal' it's recommended that you 'join' (and get the 'wholesale' price, the coveted discounts...) There's the kicker.

                    Fuller Brush? I think the oldtimers did pretty well, financially. And Amway? I guess Rich DeVoss isn't financially 'set'? Of course they both are. They had the top position...the ones in first... same story. always. It's how it works!! I keep reiterating that! The brainwashing is so unreal.

                    I didn't mention a 'status' financially or had one in mind.....you are the one who mentioned a 6-figure income. (another '6-figure' proclamation! it's become such a catch word today..." 6-figure " ... as if it's supposed to define the line of success).

                    I have no ill will towards anyone who tries MLM. Like I said, I did myself....(no not the two you referred to). Just disagree with the model.

                    As for the PrePaid Legal guy who is top earner and came in after 20 years? That's great. PrePaid Legal has a different format than your typical MLM. In fact they insist they're not MLM, but direct sales. Like an insurance policy.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
                      Originally Posted by missm2m View Post

                      Never said anything about schlepping something up and down any streets. Chasing family and friends, that was THE (and still is in many mlm cos) #1 starting point. That's precisely why it got such a bad name, family and friends tired of hearing the pitch, you hear and read about it all the time. That's why people say they don't do 'that'.

                      In all reality, if you can't recommend your mlm product to those closest to you, then why not? Because... of the nature of the beast. In order to get the 'best price/deal' it's recommended that you 'join' (and get the 'wholesale' price, the coveted discounts...) There's the kicker.

                      Fuller Brush? I think the oldtimers did pretty well, financially. And Amway? I guess Rich DeVoss isn't financially 'set'? Of course they both are. They had the top position...the ones in first... same story. always. It's how it works!! I keep reiterating that! The brainwashing is so unreal.

                      I didn't mention a 'status' financially or had one in mind.....you are the one who mentioned a 6-figure income. (another '6-figure' proclamation! it's become such a catch word today..." 6-figure " ... as if it's supposed to define the line of success).

                      I have no ill will towards anyone who tries MLM. Like I said, I did myself....(no not the two you referred to). Just disagree with the model.

                      As for the PrePaid Legal guy who is top earner and came in after 20 years? That's great. PrePaid Legal has a different format than your typical MLM. In fact they insist they're not MLM, but direct sales. Like an insurance policy.
                      1. Of course DeVos and Van Andel earned fortunes... they owned
                      the freakin' company... LOL

                      2. If Pre-Paid Legal folks are now saying they aren't MLM that's
                      new. Never heard that one before. Regardless of their product
                      their "format" is no different. They pay pretty much the same way
                      as every other MLM company. By the way, PPL isn't the only
                      example of companies whose top earners were not first in. That's
                      one of the biggest myths of MLM.

                      3. Agree on recommending products. If you can't, or won't tell everyone
                      you know about your product you should get out of the business. It really
                      isn't for you.

                      4. "Chasing" family and friends... only the amateurs.

                      5. Six figure income... <shrug>... take it or leave it. If that's all
                      that was available I wouldn't have any interest.

                      Tsnyder
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                      • Profile picture of the author missm2m
                        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

                        1. Of course DeVos and Van Andel earned fortunes... they owned
                        the freakin' company... LOL

                        2. If Pre-Paid Legal folks are now saying they aren't MLM that's
                        new. Never heard that one before. Regardless of their product
                        their "format" is no different. They pay pretty much the same way
                        as every other MLM company. By the way, PPL isn't the only
                        example of companies whose top earners were not first in. That's
                        one of the biggest myths of MLM.

                        3. Agree on recommending products. If you can't, or won't tell everyone
                        you know about your product you should get out of the business. It really
                        isn't for you.

                        4. "Chasing" family and friends... only the amateurs.

                        5. Six figure income... <shrug>... take it or leave it. If that's all
                        that was available I wouldn't have any interest.

                        Tsnyder
                        quota!

                        Of course! And they were the first in... for sure. !

                        I will concede that with the internet's influence today, i think you could get around certain 'styles' of working your mlm. Flashy sites and top copy, all the bells and whistles....could add a little 'anonymity' factor and in doing so, maybe make someone less likely to feel the heat of the one on one meeting. (tho scribbling on the napkin strategy, right?) never did that? you missed a lot.

                        I guess if one mlm'r had internet skills and his upline didn't......again, we're talking apples and oranges. as usual, it would paint another unfair picture to me. most people early on could pick up a phone and dial or jump in a car and meet you somewhere. everyone was given and had access to the same training materials to work from.

                        I imagine if someone today goes past the upline....it has something to do with the web.?? I would guess.

                        Point is, that I'd still be earning off my downline. And no where near as much as the 'first one's in'....(vs. just my 'upline').

                        Chasing family and friends was not just for the amateurs. That's where you sound a little lacking in your own understanding... Rich DeVoss was not an amateur! etc. And it IS still a given in many training materials.... for so obvious reasons, which they explain. (like I said earlier, yes, I read about....periodically... just out of curiosity...keep up with the 'news')!

                        Then what's it all about? MLM is about the numbers. Always has been. Remember the 'circles'!! The more the better! Visions of 'circles'......everywhere you went....circles.!

                        Hey, bottom line, you sound sincere. I wish you well, I do. There's a lot of comments made about the pros (not cons) about MLM too in this thread. Everything has it's bright side, if you look long or hard enough sometimes. You'll always find dishonesty and anything else in any walk of life, no it doesn't ruin it all.

                        This wasn't about the people, to me.....just the business model itself. It might work for some (my opinion, the first ones/ early ones in) but overall I don't believe it works for the others by a huge and drastic measure. p.s. last I 'heard', and not they don't 'teach it at Harvard'! correct me if I'm wrong! lol
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                        • Originally Posted by missm2m View Post

                          quota!

                          Of course! And they were the first in... for sure. !

                          I will concede that with the internet's influence today, i think you could get around certain 'styles' of working your mlm. Flashy sites and top copy, all the bells and whistles....could add a little 'anonymity' factor and in doing so, maybe make someone less likely to feel the heat of the one on one meeting. (tho scribbling on the napkin strategy, right?) never did that? you missed a lot.

                          I guess if one mlm'r had internet skills and his upline didn't......again, we're talking apples and oranges. as usual, it would paint another unfair picture to me. most people early on could pick up a phone and dial or jump in a car and meet you somewhere. everyone was given and had access to the same training materials to work from.

                          I imagine if someone today goes past the upline....it has something to do with the web.?? I would guess.

                          Point is, that I'd still be earning off my downline. And no where near as much as the 'first one's in'....(vs. just my 'upline').

                          Chasing family and friends was not just for the amateurs. That's where you sound a little lacking in your own understanding... Rich DeVoss was not an amateur! etc. And it IS still a given in many training materials.... for so obvious reasons, which they explain. (like I said earlier, yes, I read about....periodically... just out of curiosity...keep up with the 'news')!

                          Then what's it all about? MLM is about the numbers. Always has been. Remember the 'circles'!! The more the better! Visions of 'circles'......everywhere you went....circles.!

                          Hey, bottom line, you sound sincere. I wish you well, I do. There's a lot of comments made about the pros (not cons) about MLM too in this thread. Everything has it's bright side, if you look long or hard enough sometimes. You'll always find dishonesty and anything else in any walk of life, no it doesn't ruin it all.

                          This wasn't about the people, to me.....just the business model itself. It might work for some (my opinion, the first ones/ early ones in) but overall I don't believe it works for the others by a huge and drastic measure. p.s. last I 'heard', and not they don't 'teach it at Harvard'! correct me if I'm wrong! lol
                          Hasn't making money always been about the numbers? If so, how would you make sales? Even if you are ethically promoting your MLM by selling its products and then the business side secondarily, you need prospects.

                          Same with IM, same with brick and mortar businesses.
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                          • Profile picture of the author missm2m
                            Originally Posted by Jason Perez O'Connor View Post

                            Hasn't making money always been about the numbers? If so, how would you make sales? Even if you are ethically promoting your MLM by selling its products and then the business side secondarily, you need prospects.

                            Same with IM, same with brick and mortar businesses.
                            Hi. Good question. Yes, making MONEY is about the numbers, sure. When you're counting dollars....your bottom line is what counts and the more dollars, the better.

                            In my comment I was referring to the 'circles', and the 'more the better'....but these 'circles' represent 'people'. Not dollars. That's the difference. Yes, they spend money and you get a percent from that money.......but in MOST lucrative MLM's you get a bigger percent on the number of 'circles' in your downline also.

                            In other words, you'd get paid not just on the dollar amount of the sales.......but also on the number of 'circles'! (people) (you get paid on both, separately) and that's the line..... where people get uneasy with MLM.... the products are many times great products. many times way overrated...and priced....but some are great!

                            It's the people, the focus on the numbers...of people. Always looking for someone else...somewhere...the 'big' one.... it's just the way it goes. And it makes for an uneasiness that irks a lot of people.

                            I don't judge people in MLM just the model...like I said. It doesn't work the way it's made out to, imo. Big names, big companies, sure...I know they're out there....but I don't believe the 'structure' of MLM is workable for anyone other than the one's who are early, early in....and actually.....yes, I do believe it works for them! But that's all.......for the most part. There are the few exceptions in anything, somehow....who knows.....
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                        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
                          Originally Posted by missm2m View Post

                          quota!

                          Of course! And they were the first in... for sure. !

                          I will concede that with the internet's influence today, i think you could get around certain 'styles' of working your mlm. Flashy sites and top copy, all the bells and whistles....could add a little 'anonymity' factor and in doing so, maybe make someone less likely to feel the heat of the one on one meeting. (tho scribbling on the napkin strategy, right?) never did that? you missed a lot.

                          I guess if one mlm'r had internet skills and his upline didn't......again, we're talking apples and oranges. as usual, it would paint another unfair picture to me. most people early on could pick up a phone and dial or jump in a car and meet you somewhere. everyone was given and had access to the same training materials to work from.

                          I imagine if someone today goes past the upline....it has something to do with the web.?? I would guess.

                          Point is, that I'd still be earning off my downline. And no where near as much as the 'first one's in'....(vs. just my 'upline').

                          Chasing family and friends was not just for the amateurs. That's where you sound a little lacking in your own understanding... Rich DeVoss was not an amateur! etc. And it IS still a given in many training materials.... for so obvious reasons, which they explain. (like I said earlier, yes, I read about....periodically... just out of curiosity...keep up with the 'news')!

                          Then what's it all about? MLM is about the numbers. Always has been. Remember the 'circles'!! The more the better! Visions of 'circles'......everywhere you went....circles.!

                          Hey, bottom line, you sound sincere. I wish you well, I do. There's a lot of comments made about the pros (not cons) about MLM too in this thread. Everything has it's bright side, if you look long or hard enough sometimes. You'll always find dishonesty and anything else in any walk of life, no it doesn't ruin it all.

                          This wasn't about the people, to me.....just the business model itself. It might work for some (my opinion, the first ones/ early ones in) but overall I don't believe it works for the others by a huge and drastic measure. p.s. last I 'heard', and not they don't 'teach it at Harvard'! correct me if I'm wrong! lol
                          I have neither the time nor the desire to respond to your long and
                          rambling posts containing so much misinformation. The more we
                          converse, the more off track you get.

                          It's plainly obvious to me... after 30+ years experience and a great
                          deal of success... that you have some knowledge of the subject but
                          not nearly as much as you seem to think you do.

                          The business model not only works... it's pure genius in the hands of
                          those who understand what makes a real business work.

                          When I referred to "only amateurs" I wasn't saying that one shouldn't
                          contact family and friends. YOU made a statement... repeatedly... about
                          CHASING family and friends. Only amateurs chase people. There is
                          absolutely no future in MLM, or any other type of sales, in chasing anyone.

                          In any case... you, and others who lack understanding of how this
                          business works, are certainly entitled to your opinions. I just have a
                          hard time letting them go unchallenged as if they are facts... which, of
                          course, they are not.

                          Tsnyder
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              • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
                Originally Posted by missm2m View Post

                Oh... I see, it's "a whole bunch" of his friends.....

                Same thing. What's a whole bunch out of zillions... really.

                A "whole bunch" in over 30 years... really. Is that like a "whole lot" ?

                The real numbers don't lie.
                I'd offer an intelligent guess that the percentage of people
                who EARN 6 figure incomes via MLM isn't a lot different than
                in any other pursuit.

                It's an OPPORTUNITY. Those looking for a GUARANTEE are currently
                logged onto the wrong forum.

                There's a couple clues in what I wrote there... see if you can find them.

                Tsnyder
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                • Profile picture of the author missm2m
                  Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

                  I'd offer an intelligent guess that the percentage of people
                  who EARN 6 figure incomes via MLM isn't a lot different than
                  in any other pursuit.

                  It's an OPPORTUNITY. Those looking for a GUARANTEE are currently
                  logged onto the wrong forum.

                  There's a couple clues in what I wrote there... see if you can find them.

                  Tsnyder
                  Yeah, got the "clues". I disagree that MLM is an opportunity when it's basic nature is to 'earn' off of other people's efforts.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
                    Originally Posted by missm2m View Post

                    Yeah, got the "clues". I disagree that MLM is an opportunity when it's basic nature is to 'earn' off of other people's efforts.
                    Seriously? Look around you... that's how fortunes are
                    earned in every industry. It's called leverage and it's one
                    of the great principles of wealth creation.

                    I know you'll think this is apples and oranges but please tell
                    me how this differs from affiliate marketing. Is the product
                    producer not earning off the efforts of the affiliates?

                    Tsnyder
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                    • Profile picture of the author missm2m
                      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

                      Seriously? Look around you... that's how fortunes are
                      earned in every industry. It's called leverage and it's one
                      of the great principles of wealth creation.

                      I know you'll think this is apples and oranges but please tell
                      me how this differs from affiliate marketing. Is the product
                      producer not earning off the efforts of the affiliates?

                      Tsnyder
                      Affiliate Marketing is a little different. I can sell your book or bike but I don't have a quoto I have to meet in order to get paid, etc.etc.... etc....etc... so, yes, you'll make a percent of my sale, off of my efforts......but yes, apples and oranges. Compare different MLM companies to each other if you want, and different IM strategies / companies.....but otherwise it doesn't fit. imho.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
                        Originally Posted by missm2m View Post

                        Affiliate Marketing is a little different. I can sell your book or bike but I don't have a quoto I have to meet in order to get paid, etc.etc.... etc....etc... so, yes, you'll make a percent of my sale, off of my efforts......but yes, apples and oranges. Compare different MLM companies to each other if you want, and different IM strategies / companies.....but otherwise it doesn't fit. imho.
                        With all due respect that's pure nonsense.

                        Tsnyder
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                        • Profile picture of the author missm2m
                          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

                          With all due respect that's pure nonsense.

                          Tsnyder
                          What part?

                          I might be ignorant here, but I can only think of one time I've seen a multi-level affiliate product structure, and it only paid for you and your direct downline person. (2 levels, you and him). Every other one I've ever seen pays a one-time percent for each of your sales. That's so different than getting a percent (s) on a downline 'leg' of hundreds and thousands of 'circles'. Where's the nonsense?? I don't see it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
              Originally Posted by missm2m View Post

              Remembering back when....

              Commissions were earned primarily, if not totally, on sales of products.

              Sales aids, training materials etc were primarily where the company itself earned, and earned big.

              If you were giving a 'seminar'... and charging your 'own' people, it was usually just a few dollars to cover a room.

              Basically, all your money came from the sale of products.

              What is so sad...and I say sad lightly, is that that is where the notorious 'garage full of inventory' picture came in.

              You had to keep ordering product, under pressure from the upline. Keep ordering product so you could 'get a commission check'... it was a constant vicious circle. The product accumulated. Selling it? How could you sell it when you were yes, 'sharing' it....

              Thankfully, I never got to that point. I knew some who did. They literally had boxes piled high..in the garage...

              I did step out though, long enough and crazy enough, to say I've been there. I've actually checked periodically throughout the years to see...who's where today. It's so interesting when I find one or two.

              And that leads me to the thought I had to reply with.

              One of the replies ? mentioned " some? of his friends make 6 figures... etc"....?? something like that..

              That's just it. It's always, always.....always..... some. It just works that way. I've never seen it not work that way.... the some might be a bigger some in some companies than others......but, it's always.... some!!

              Yet they promise and promote that "anyone can do this"....."anyone can get there if..."

              But it's always, some.

              Where are the thousands of others. Thousands and thousands and thousands....

              Really. Where are they?

              The OP is one.... and he's in the company of the zillions of others.

              Just works that way.

              Well, my thought anyhow. I have no feelings one way or the other about MLM...I just see it as it works that way.... simply.
              SOME people earn 6 figures via internet marketing... what about the
              hundreds of thousands of others who don't?

              Tsnyder
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              • Profile picture of the author missm2m
                Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

                SOME people earn 6 figures via internet marketing... what about the
                hundreds of thousands of others who don't?

                Tsnyder
                Comparing these two is apples and oranges.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
                  Originally Posted by missm2m View Post

                  Comparing these two is apples and oranges.
                  Then why do the majority of IMers who post in
                  these threads do it?

                  Tsnyder
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                  • Profile picture of the author missm2m
                    Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

                    Then why do the majority of IMers who post in
                    these threads do it?

                    Tsnyder
                    Guess my comment wasn't clear. I was referring to the word 'earn', not IM / MLM. Comparing how you 'earn' in either one is apples and oranges. At least to those who understand and have experienced both.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
            Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

            How much of that is from sales of product, and how much is from sales of "support materials" and "system" or "training" related things? A rough percentage is fine.

            All the best,
            Michael
            The percentage earned by any of them from selling tools
            and systems would be zero. Only one company I know of
            where that is much of a factor and none of us are part of
            that company.

            Most good companies I'm familiar with won't even allow it.

            Tsnyder
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        • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

          Yeah... know what you mean... a whole bunch of my friends
          earn 6 figure incomes in MLM... buncha nimwits...

          Tsnyder
          Let me guess....you guys crank out a ton of retail sales?
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          • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
            Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

            Let me guess....you guys crank out a ton of retail sales?
            As a matter of fact, we do... and teach it throughout our teams.
            That's why we're successful... real products... real customers.

            Everyone and his brother isn't cut out for any business, let alone
            building an MLM. But many of them are legitimate candidates for
            various products and services represented by MLM companies.

            Imagine how much differently people might think about MLM if everyone
            in MLM adopted the philosophy that the path to riches in BUSINESS, MLM
            or otherwise, is NOT signing up everyone who can fog a mirror BUT lies
            in attracting those who want to build, and are capable of doing so, and
            teaching them how to gather legitimate customers for the product/service.

            That's the way we do it... always have... always will... works out pretty
            good on check days... lol

            Tsnyder
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
              Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

              As a matter of fact, we do... and teach it throughout our teams.
              That's why we're successful... real products... real customers.

              Everyone and his brother isn't cut out for any business, let alone
              building an MLM. But many of them are legitimate candidates for
              various products and services represented by MLM companies.

              Imagine how much differently people might think about MLM if everyone
              in MLM adopted the philosophy that the path to riches in BUSINESS, MLM
              or otherwise, is NOT signing up everyone who can fog a mirror BUT lies
              in attracting those who want to build, and are capable of doing so, and
              teaching them how to gather legitimate customers for the product/service.

              That's the way we do it... always have... always will... works out pretty
              good on check days... lol

              Tsnyder
              Okay. Fair enough.

              While you and I always seem to be some of the most frequent posters in MLM threads, I have to say you handle yourself quite well in the face of a lot of mudslinging.

              Not only that, but if your comments (across many threads) about your MLM are accurate, then I'm curious to learn more about it.

              All the best,
              Michael
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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                While you and I always seem to be some of the most frequent posters in MLM threads, I have to say you handle yourself quite well in the face of a lot of mudslinging.

                Not only that, but if your comments (across many threads) about your MLM are accurate, then I'm curious to learn more about it.
                It's all true. And Terry's MLM is worth learning about. I admit I'd be in that one, myself, if I lived "over there". Even though my passion for MLM has gone and IM suits me so much better.
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              • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
                Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                Okay. Fair enough.

                While you and I always seem to be some of the most frequent posters in MLM threads, I have to say you handle yourself quite well in the face of a lot of mudslinging.

                Not only that, but if your comments (across many threads) about your MLM are accurate, then I'm curious to learn more about it.

                All the best,
                Michael
                I'd be more than happy to provide you with whatever
                information you desire, Michael... with the firm understanding,
                of course, that I'd have precious little chance of changing your mind

                Let me know if you have any interest in pursuing the conversation off the forum.

                Tsnyder
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      • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
        Originally Posted by JackPowers View Post

        Sounds like a scam to most intelligent people.
        Exactly. I could never understand how people get tangled up in it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lauryn
      Originally Posted by Jimspeed View Post

      man.. i think EVERYONE starts at MLM at one point or another.
      LOL- it just sounds...soo ..good..
      Tell me about it! I've tried several!
      Signature

      I Go Hard = "Slanguage" for putting forth a lot of effort.

      Don't be an arse and try to flip something you clearly have no knowledge of against me.

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  • Profile picture of the author co-creator
    My passion for MLM is gone too... I don't know if you heard about the work of a man called something Fitzpatrick... he basically talks are writes about how MLMs intersect with pyramid schemes... I'm not just some other idiot that thinks all MLMs are scams... but if you do the math, you realize that they are unethical. Just look into his work and check out his book called False Profits - it explains it all.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    My passion for MLM has not waned in 30+ years. Fortunately,
    for me, I learned the business from someone who actually knew
    how to run a business so I never got involved in any of the silly
    kinds of stuff mentioned by posters above. Truly successful
    MLMers don't do that kind of crap and never have.

    It's kinda funny how the OP just wanted to say that the business
    model wasn't his cup of tea so he found one that is... and everyone
    else took that as their cue to bash the model... lol

    Tsnyder
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    • Profile picture of the author JonWebContent
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      My passion for MLM has not waned in 30+ years. Fortunately,
      for me, I learned the business from someone who actually knew
      how to run a business so I never got involved in any of the silly
      kinds of stuff mentioned by posters above. Truly successful
      MLMers don't do that kind of crap and never have.

      It's kinda funny how the OP just wanted to say that the business
      model wasn't his cup of tea so he found one that is... and everyone
      else took that as their cue to bash the model... lol

      Tsnyder
      Edited out
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      My passion for MLM has not waned in 30+ years. Fortunately,
      for me, I learned the business from someone who actually knew
      how to run a business so I never got involved in any of the silly
      kinds of stuff mentioned by posters above. Truly successful
      MLMers don't do that kind of crap and never have.

      It's kinda funny how the OP just wanted to say that the business
      model wasn't his cup of tea so he found one that is... and everyone
      else took that as their cue to bash the model... lol

      Tsnyder
      It's kinda funny how some people define "bashing". Two of the responses didn't look like bashing at all. But seriously, I do see your overall point.

      Not surprising though as it is one subject that people get passionate about, whether they are on the right side or...

      All the best,
      Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Eko Ventures
    Originally Posted by astnpwrz View Post

    I want to get straight to the point. I was introduced to MLM when I was 18 (about 6 yrs ago) and I dont need to go into details about how it turned out. I was supposed to retire by 22 LOL. You all know how the story goes. Anyway...i didnt realize it then, but my whole purpose for getting in to it was money and the promise of early retirement. Mostly money. There was actually NO kind of substance behind what I was doing + no prospecting skills. So I didnt work out for me. Once I figured out im actually NOT interested in that kind of "business model" I felt a huge weight off my shoulders. After discovering REAL marketing through IM, I found what I was really interested in. I love looking at numbers, conversions etc. and the better I become the more money I make. Money is just a by product. The next step is to move on the local stuff. A way to help even more people. Thanks to those who read this.

    P.S. mlm doesnt suck, its just not for everybody. I prefer direct sales. Cheers
    It doesn't really sound like you had much of a passion for it to begin with (at least from what you've said), and letting go of it was more a release from a burden than anything!

    Good to hear you've gotten into something you actually enjoy and are having success .
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  • Profile picture of the author candoit2
    If you think paying a fee just to promote a companies products is better than not paying a fee to promote as an affiliate then you might be a mlmer.

    If you think paying monthy autoship just so you'll be able to get paid your commissions is better than not having to buy a companies products just to get your cheque then you just might be a mlmer.

    If you would like to have to go through the process of generating a lead, talking to that lead, and then depend on them to go out and duplicate for you to earn anything is better than just generating the lead, showing them your offer and if they like it they buy and you earn money..... You might be a mlmer..


    If you like to be called a scammer and enjoy vigorous debate proving over and over again that mlm is a real legit business model and that anyone who disagrees is wrong or losers who can't hack it because you have a friend who happens to be the guy who reaches his bonuses when you recruit people, while you get pennies.....you might be a mlmer.

    If you look forward to the day you are the one to get the bonuses and big cheque while your friends and family who are the ones to have recruited those people are just getting pennies......you got what it takes to be a mlmer.
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    • Profile picture of the author fred67
      Originally Posted by AaronJones View Post

      If you think paying a fee just to promote a companies products is better than not paying a fee to promote as an affiliate then you might be a mlmer.

      If you think paying monthy autoship just so you'll be able to get paid your commissions is better than not having to buy a companies products just to get your cheque then you just might be a mlmer.

      If you would like to have to go through the process of generating a lead, talking to that lead, and then depend on them to go out and duplicate for you to earn anything is better than just generating the lead, showing them your offer and if they like it they buy and you earn money..... You might be a mlmer..


      If you like to be called a scammer and enjoy vigorous debate proving over and over again that mlm is a real legit business model and that anyone who disagrees is wrong or losers who can't hack it because you have a friend who happens to be the guy who reaches his bonuses when you recruit people, while you get pennies.....you might be a mlmer.

      If you look forward to the day you are the one to get the bonuses and big cheque while your friends and family who are the ones to have recruited those people are just getting pennies......you got what it takes to be a mlmer.
      Sadly, every point you make is absolutely true - but the failure rate is just as true for 'every' business model out there and unless you are a lucky-hitter (and there are just a few) you 'are' going to be duplicating those moves in 'every business model out there <{:-)

      Cheers .... Pete.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Banks
        I actually began my IM career in an MLM program last year around july... MLSP

        I'll admit I did learn a lot there... well at least I thought I did at that time.

        I basically soaked up all of the info they had in the entire program in a month(And its a loooooooong list of info there) and got a total of 0 referrals in that amount of time.... well that was my fault technically since I used the 30 days to do nothing but learn.


        Honestly the only thing I can really thank that MLM program for is getting me serious about IM, and maybe some extremely basic info about setting up a wordpress site. And I mean extremely basic info.

        But I could have done that for free... smh

        Don't let MLM destroy your passion for IM, thats like comparing SPAM
        (the canned stuff) to Steak and Lobster.

        All in all, the most direct path to success is to Master or learn as much as possible about Copywriting, followed by SEO and keyword research, how to create a site/blog correctly, and learn a decent list of free traffic methods.

        Sorry if im missing some other stuff but Im suffering brain damage from info overload. :rolleyes:

        After that start getting creative. DON'T COPY ANYONE!

        Ignore The Gurus. They Are The Enemies.

        Any ideas you create that succeeds can turn into a product to sell. Now doesn't that sound more effective?

        After you do that the Internet is going to be your money making playground.... seriously

        Last piece of advice:

        Learn in order to teach. Teach in order to master. Rinse and Repeat. Success is guaranteed.

        B.Hunter
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        • Profile picture of the author fred67
          Originally Posted by bhunter1212 View Post



          All in all, the most direct path to success is to Master or learn as much as possible about Copywriting, followed by SEO and keyword research, how to create a site/blog correctly, and learn a decent list of free traffic methods.

          Ignore The Gurus. They Are The Enemies.



          Sorry if I'm missing some other stuff but Im suffering brain damage from info overload. :rolleyes:

          B.Hunter
          You and me both :-)
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        • Originally Posted by bhunter1212 View Post

          I actually began my IM career in an MLM program last year around july... MLSP

          I'll admit I did learn a lot there... well at least I thought I did at that time.

          I basically soaked up all of the info they had in the entire program in a month(And its a loooooooong list of info there) and got a total of 0 referrals in that amount of time.... well that was my fault technically since I used the 30 days to do nothing but learn.


          Honestly the only thing I can really thank that MLM program for is getting me serious about IM, and maybe some extremely basic info about setting up a wordpress site. And I mean extremely basic info.

          But I could have done that for free... smh

          Don't let MLM destroy your passion for IM, thats like comparing SPAM
          (the canned stuff) to Steak and Lobster.

          All in all, the most direct path to success is to Master or learn as much as possible about Copywriting, followed by SEO and keyword research, how to create a site/blog correctly, and learn a decent list of free traffic methods.

          Sorry if im missing some other stuff but Im suffering brain damage from info overload. :rolleyes:

          After that start getting creative. DON'T COPY ANYONE!

          Ignore The Gurus. They Are The Enemies.

          Any ideas you create that succeeds can turn into a product to sell. Now doesn't that sound more effective?

          After you do that the Internet is going to be your money making playground.... seriously

          Last piece of advice:

          Learn in order to teach. Teach in order to master. Rinse and Repeat. Success is guaranteed.

          B.Hunter
          LoL. I too have been part of My Lead System PRO. Was one of the first back-end training systems that I actually found helpful. They taught you article marketing, how to dominate ezines, building lists, conversions, split testing and so forth... I learnt most of what I know from that place. And funny enough, I made my first cheque from that place accumulating 100 leads and 2 who took the plunge and signed up. One from belgium, the other from the US. Made 300 dollars in total, and that was all through trying PPC for the first time with no knowledge (tell a lie I bought into Perry Marshals PPC course but only read it a bit before spending my money).

          300 Dollars, and around 70 dollars spent in PPC. Not a bad return. But for some reason I just didn't like it in the end. I felt as if it was just lying to myself.

          The bulk of the money was made through recruiting people, training them up through the back-end system you used to train yourself and then having them sign up to the same MLM company you are a part of and buying an autoship.

          So basically you only made commissions because people who wanted to be part of the company had to buy an Autoship (a certain quantity of that product) each month to earn commissions. You then recruited more people to do this, and you basically made money from having tons of trainees ordering the Autoship each month.

          Really you were supposed to be making the bulk of the money from selling their products to the general public, recruiting others is supposed to be a perk to MLM in order to earn residual income. Unfortunately all the companies I joined and people I followed used the recruitment of others as a way to make the money. And taught others to do so as well.

          To me this felt like a fake pyramid method of doing MLM. MLM works, even if you go the 'selling the dream' route but it is highly unethical.

          I was part of MonaVie for anyone who wants to know. I wonder if they are still going ... lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author stargaterich
    I have been involved with several MLM companies for the past 6 years. Well, some were good and some were bad. I think the core and key success to any MLM business is the product itself. MLM like any other break and mortar business depends on not just the number of people you recruit as downline but more importantly products or services that bring values to the consumer.
    Sure enough the money is good if you are able to build deep downline that helps to generate commisions for you however without a good product or service, the buck stops there. Another thing though, your success in MLM and how far you go also depend on the ability of your recruiter (upliner). He or she must constant motivate and keep the team moving in meeting targeted goals.
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  • Profile picture of the author Capitalist_Pig
    I spent a lot of time in a hotel for a while - my wife held dance classes there as a feeder into her studio in another town.

    I was there every Thursday night for about a year. Over that year, I saw the same group of "MLM Experts" hold meeting after meeting, seminar after seminar. I was usually sitting in the business center, playing a game to pass the time or programming something. I got to know these guys well.

    What struck me at first was that they always showed up very squared-away. Freshly pressed suits, metallic glossy business cards, and a bright smile that said "You're exactly the prospect I've been looking for!" They were good. But still, something wasn't quite right. As the summer progressed, I began to sense a quiet desperation in their pitches outside the business center door to the prospects that flew in from all over the country.

    I realized something important - while these guys were excellent at getting people excited and involved in a product, they couldn't actually sell it. Sure, they made some money here and there when people joined up and bought all of the promo materials they "needed" to sell whatever it was they were selling - but I don't think it was enough to cover the bill, much less make a profit for them.

    By the time they stopped renting the hotel, they'd gone from fancy suits and leased Mercedes to trying to pull off the "hipster" look with loose jeans, a shirt and vest, and a 10-year-old Honda Civic.

    That's my only experience with MLM. It seems to have made money for a while, but it couldn't last, even for people who were obviously good at it. I decided then that when I was ready to go into business for myself, it would be a real business, not a scheme that was packaged and sold to me in a pretty box.

    Building a system is the only way to sustainable income, in my opinion. I've not done it yet, so take it for what it's worth I suppose.
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  • Profile picture of the author fred67
    It's a shame that most people in MLM get introduced to the concept by the wrong people in the first place. It's a bit like following the Guru's and expecting magic - it doesn't happen because most of them just want you as a lifetime customer, lining their bank accounts just exactly the same way as many MLM Guru's.

    However, there is an approach to MLM that 'is' honest and ethical, and it doesn't go down that 'same old - same old' the link I'm posting here is nothing to do with me and I get no reciprocal benefits by pointing anyone there, but if you 'are' interested in MLM you would be well advised to visit it and listen to some of 'The Greatest Networkers' interviews. It could well open up your mind and give you a genuinely beneficial outlook on life, money, self-respect and morality :-) .... (Sorry, did I swear there)

    The Greatest Networkers

    Check it out, it's a friendly little website :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Aj Wilson
    After my "sucked in" experience with ONE MLM Company,
    I've since learnt this;

    If the Company is All about pushing the Opportunity to friends and family,
    Instead of Selling the Product(s) or Service(s) ... to strangers ...

    Chances are, it's probably NOT a good company to be in.

    Why?

    Because the product(s) or service(s) should sell themselves ... and you should NEVER
    have to sell your friends and family unless they ask YOU.

    Not the other way round.
    You're setting yourself up for disaster if you do.

    But to the OP ... I hear ya man ...

    I like the concept of MLM, but not the way some MLM companies
    target people who dont know any better.
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    • Profile picture of the author fred67
      Originally Posted by Aj Wilson View Post



      Because the product(s) or service(s) should sell themselves ... and you should NEVER
      have to sell your friends and family unless they ask YOU.

      Not the other way round.
      You're setting yourself up for disaster if you do.
      If you set yourself up in a bricks and mortar business, or maybe a service like plasterer, bricklayer or whatever, does that mean you Wouldn't tell all your friends and family about it?

      If so - you truly 'are' setting yourself up for failure :-(

      Every business 'has' to promote itself. People don't just arrive at your door because you've decided to be in business.
      Hustlers win - Stagnators lose - it's the jungle law, and we're all in it together :-)

      Cheers, Pete.
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      • Profile picture of the author Aj Wilson
        Originally Posted by fred67 View Post

        If you set yourself up in a bricks and mortar business, or maybe a service like plasterer, bricklayer or whatever, does that mean you Wouldn't tell all your friends and family about it?

        If so - you truly 'are' setting yourself up for failure :-(

        Every business 'has' to promote itself. People don't just arrive at your door because you've decided to be in business.
        Hustlers win - Stagnators lose - it's the jungle law, and we're all in it together :-)

        Cheers, Pete.

        Im not talking about a Brick & Mortar Business and neither is this thread.
        We're talking about an MLM Business.

        Hustlers - Hustle, mate, they dont always win.

        If you have a sh?t business model, no skills, no network ... hustling could be wasted effort, right?

        and you could open yourself to financial losss, disappointment and/or embarrassment.
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        • Profile picture of the author fred67
          Originally Posted by Aj Wilson View Post

          Im not talking about a Brick & Mortar Business and neither is this thread.
          We're talking about an MLM Business.

          Hustlers - Hustle, mate, they dont always win.

          If you have a sh?t business model, no skills, no network ... hustling could be wasted effort, right?

          and you could open yourself to financial losss, disappointment and/or embarrassment.
          I'm perfectly well aware of what this thread is about thankyou. But business is business, and no matter WHAT your business is, you've got to 'hustle' for it.

          ( Hustle: Verb - to proceed or work rapidly or energetically: to hustle about putting a house in order. )


          Yes, that does include advertising, posting on forums, article writing, CPC, Facebook and everything else that comes with the territory. If you think you're in business and not hustling, then I'm afraid you're not in business, your posing :p

          Cheers .... Pete.
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          • Profile picture of the author navyseal
            But for me, I still pay attention to mlm and I wouldn't ignore.

            That's another source to generate income or let's say some sideline.
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          • Profile picture of the author Aj Wilson
            Originally Posted by fred67 View Post

            I'm perfectly well aware of what this thread is about thankyou. But business is business, and no matter WHAT your business is, you've got to 'hustle' for it.

            ( Hustle: Verb - to proceed or work rapidly or energetically: to hustle about putting a house in order. )


            Yes, that does include advertising, posting on forums, article writing, CPC, Facebook and everything else that comes with the territory. If you think you're in business and not hustling, then I'm afraid you're not in business, your posing :p

            Cheers .... Pete.
            We'll if you want a business model that you have to "hustle",
            and you prefer to run your business that way then good luck to you ...

            I'd rather have a business that builds it'self and self promotes...
            with the product, service or system that sells itself.

            So the next time you want to pick on my post and take it out of context,
            at least think twice before you do, because you sound like an absolute wanker.

            There's a difference between, working hard & smart ... and "hustling"...

            You did not post the other definitions;

            2. to push or force one's way; jostle or shove.

            3. to be aggressive, especially in business or other financial dealings.



            There's leadership by Force.
            Or leadership by Following ...

            I prefer "by following" ... it's passive and not forceful ...

            Do you like being sold to by a forceful salesman?

            no thanks.

            Im here to help friends and family ...

            not sell or refer them to inferior products,
            services or MLM garbage just for the sake of a "quick buck".

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            • Profile picture of the author fred67
              Originally Posted by Aj Wilson View Post


              I'd rather have a business that builds it'self and self promotes...
              with the product, service or system that sells itself.



              [/COLOR]

              It's nice to see you've just defined every business model in existence 'including' MLM :-)

              The power of 'Referral' is THE business model that nobody can escape.
              You truly are a profound individual - (Except for your bad language) which really isn't appropriate on 'any' forum, especially this one thankyou

              Cheers .... Pete.
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              • Profile picture of the author Aj Wilson
                Originally Posted by fred67 View Post

                It's nice to see you've just defined every business model in existence 'including' MLM :-)
                I've not defined every business model in existence?
                Not every business model builds itself and self promotes?

                You dont get an MLM business and just let it sit there on the shelf do you?

                Otherwise every MLM business would be successful, wouldn't it?

                First,

                You take my post way out of context.

                I was simply describing AN Experience I had with ONE MLM company ...
                and you probably instantly think Im condeming all MLM companies when I am NOT.

                The only thing you've confirmed is your lack of intelligence.

                Second,

                I've seen far worse language on this forum than 'wanker' and
                you'd probably only get offended if it were true?

                all the very best to ya,
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            • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
              Originally Posted by Aj Wilson View Post

              Im here to help friends and family ...

              not sell or refer them to inferior products,
              services or MLM garbage just for the sake of a "quick buck".

              [/COLOR]
              Gee... I was with you all the way until you made that ignorant statement...

              Tsnyder
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          • Profile picture of the author Manuelcrc
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            • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
              Originally Posted by Manuelcrc View Post

              Good for you mate because MLM systems are sooo flawed nowadays.
              Please enlighten me as to the nature of this flaw.


              IM works a lot better. Peace.
              No doubt... that's probably why the forum is full of
              people on a daily basis lamenting that they've been at
              IM for years and have yet to earn their first dime.

              No flaw in that system!

              Tsnyder
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  • Profile picture of the author LetsGoViral
    Good riddance. Businesses that base themselves on MLM is nothing more than a ponzi scheme aka scam most of the time. Also, a nice way to lose reputation.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by LetsGoViral View Post

      Good riddance. Businesses that base themselves on MLM is nothing more than a ponzi scheme aka scam most of the time. Also, a nice way to lose reputation.
      I always love it when the intellectuals join the conversation, don't you?

      Tsnyder
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  • Profile picture of the author finleyjohn90
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by finleyjohn90 View Post

      MLM stands for........
      Here's a really good definition.

      MLM Definition

      All the best,
      Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Fitnessdad
    This topic interested me as I have been in a couple of MLM's in the past and failed. The reason I failed is I didn't do the work neccessary to find consumer's, I was always sharpening my pencil or reading the latest greatest book instead of doing productive work.

    Internet marketing is a much more costly opportunity that is the reason the guru's bait you in buying one product promising all the answers but wait we have 4 more products for you to buy because we lied to you because what you bought is only a thin shell of crap and you have to buy our next 10 products to find the secret secret answer. The Internet marketing industry is so full of crap it is over flowing.

    The funny part is the people bashing MLM are most likely just like I was in MLM they did nothing but expected to make money doing nothing but think they did so much. Doing worthless activities that don't put you in front of people can't be considered effort.

    Most people fail. If it is internet marketing or MLM, the success rate is low. Just like being a football star, CEO, singer, movie star. Only a few make it to the top the rest of us have to live off whats left in the middle and work, work, work our way to the top.

    I find in internet marketing I have authosips ie Aweber, hosting fees, domain fees etc. These are motnhly recurring fees and yet I don't have any physical products.

    I myself like both MLM and internet marketing. Either one can bring you money it all depends on your effort.

    There are bad apples in every industry. A lot of MLM products are over priced and a loooooooooot of internet marketing products are way overpriced pieces of junk.
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  • Profile picture of the author danmorton
    Yeah... know what you mean... a whole bunch of my friends
    earn 6 figure incomes in MLM... buncha nimwits...

    Tsnyder
    Sure - if you get in at the top.

    Unfortunately math doesn't lie - MLM, pyramid, Social Security - they're all based on the same essential mathematics. When there's lots of new entrants at the bottom, those at the top will do well. When the supply of newbies fades - time to start another MLM.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by danmorton View Post

      Sure - if you get in at the top.

      Unfortunately math doesn't lie - MLM, pyramid, Social Security - they're all based on the same essential mathematics. When there's lots of new entrants at the bottom, those at the top will do well. When the supply of newbies fades - time to start another MLM.
      Nonsense...

      One example (of many that can be found) is the #1 earner
      with a company called Pre-Paid Legal Services. The company
      was already 20+ years old before he joined.

      Oh... and everyone gets in at the top. And... you're right. Math
      doesn't lie... but it can be awfully misleading to those who haven't
      a clue about leverage.

      Tsnyder
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb D Miller
    I don't want to be a judger in this whole thing. But I have done one MLM and I quit and I'm still paying monthly bills because of contracts I got myself into a couple years ago. Hopefully I'm learning something.

    Throughout the whole thing I think I've seen one or maybe two people promote MLM in a way that seems to be looking out for the best interests of people.

    When you're jumping through all these hoops, and getting your friends into jams with your MLM, don't think the money is going to make you happy. Even people who make money ethically aren't necessarily happy because of the things they miss out in life.

    Just read "How To Get Rich" by Felix Dennis. He's worth around 600 mil and says that he's not necessarily happy person. He recommends in his book that people think very carefully before they give into the desire to sell out in life for money. There's a lot you can do with money though. He said that for 10 years he spent 100 mil U.S. on cocaine and girls.

    It is hard for people without money to imagine that once you get money, you won't necessarily feel any happier than you were before. Many people use the quote that "money is a lot like sex, you think of nothing else when you don't have it. And you think of other things when you do."

    I know I fail a lot at valuing people. But I think it's what matters most and is most meaningful. I try to ask myself what I think will matter to me about my life when I'm 80 years old. Money? People? Success? Relationships? Family? Wealth?

    As far as successful people in MLM... I can't judge individuals, but I suspect a lot of them have become just shiny plastic people.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
    With respect to the posts talking about most MLM companies, I've seen far more "Make $10M in the next 10 seconds" in IM than I ever saw in MLM.

    Another identical problem with MLM common to IM is the almost total nonsense of "anyone can do this" without mentioning the minor details of qualifications or the time to get those qualifications.

    Finally, I think you will see the same type of newbie mentality mindlessly promoting MLM that you see promoting IM.

    Not knocking IM ... just saying .

    Marvin
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarah Bosen
    Sales of any kind isn't right for me.
    but you do what you gotta do
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    • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
      Originally Posted by Sarah Bosen View Post

      Sales of any kind isn't right for me.
      but you do what you gotta do
      So, tell me.....what is that link in your signature all about then?
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    • Profile picture of the author theemperor
      Originally Posted by Sarah Bosen View Post

      Sales of any kind isn't right for me.
      but you do what you gotta do
      I thought that ... until you realise you can just be yourself and sell. Think about the last time you genuinely recommended something to a friend and the went and purchased it. In that instance you sold something! (Or at least pre-sold it).

      That same 'sales pitch' will work with strangers too, bourne of genuine enthusiasm for the product
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      • Profile picture of the author paulie888
        Originally Posted by theemperor View Post

        I thought that ... until you realise you can just be yourself and sell. Think about the last time you genuinely recommended something to a friend and the went and purchased it. In that instance you sold something! (Or at least pre-sold it).

        That same 'sales pitch' will work with strangers too, bourne of genuine enthusiasm for the product
        So many people have this misconception of sales and the concept of selling in general. It's not a bad thing if done right and genuinely, and everyone pretty much does it on a daily basis - it's just that when it's done correctly, you rarely ever realize that you were sold to.
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  • Profile picture of the author LawrenceTam
    I've done well in my MLM adventures. Currently one of the top spots in a smaller company but......

    there is something to be said to be in the driver seat of your own destiny. Being able to do direct response marketing and get paid on my own efforts vs trying to find the heavy hitter is very enjoyable.

    I mean. who the heck wakes up to drag someone else out of bed so they can get paid?

    I do both and will continue to do both but IM is becoming a very big part of my daily routine.
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  • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
    In all fairness, there's a certain subsection of IM'ers who imo also sell the pyramid dream.

    Those are the ones who make money by selling guides on how to make money by selling others stuff on how to make money.

    Like those WSOs telling people to do WSOs.
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    • Profile picture of the author GlobalTrader
      Originally Posted by JackPowers View Post

      In all fairness, there's a certain subsection of IM'ers who imo also sell the pyramid dream.

      Those are the ones who make money by selling guides on how to make money by selling others stuff on how to make money.

      Like those WSOs telling people to do WSOs.
      I read somewhere years ago that some of the highest earners in one of the oldest MLM's (name begins with A and ends with Y) made more money selling their tapes, books and seminars than they did from sales of products or commissions off of their downlines.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Banks
      Originally Posted by JackPowers View Post


      Like those WSOs telling people to do WSOs.
      Lol this comment gave me a laugh. That technically sums up an MLM doesn't it?

      I mean from my understanding you are paying for a WSO, just to sell the same kind of WSO, and hope to sell your WSO to make the money you spent on the first WSO back, along with the cost for posting the WSO, and earn some profit in the process..... which isn't guaranteed by the way.

      Need I say anymore?

      Now Where's that dunce cap when u need it.... :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author LauraJames
    My company works with a lot of people who either are currently involved in MLM (primarily as a side business), or were once involved and just lost their zest for the MLM world. I have met a few people who achieved most success with various MLM companies, but most have only ended up frustrated or even questioning their own judgment. I think some people find stories of genuine MLM success to be encouraging. Unfortunately, this does not mean a "rinse and repeat" scenario to success.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    I hate MLM with a passion.

    If some don't, that's fine.

    At least the one's I have been exposed to, I just have everything about them. I really, really do.

    I think a lot of people feel this way and a minority loves MLM and does well with it, and more power to them.

    But myself, I'd sooner work at Taco Bell then go out and try to make money with an MLM business model, it's just not me at all.

    IM is much, much better!
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

      I hate MLM with a passion.

      If some don't, that's fine.

      At least the one's I have been exposed to, I just have everything about them. I really, really do.

      I think a lot of people feel this way and a minority loves MLM and does well with it, and more power to them.

      But myself, I'd sooner work at Taco Bell then go out and try to make money with an MLM business model, it's just not me at all.

      IM is much, much better!
      It's hard to argue with someone who displays
      that much passion so I won't even try.

      Good luck with that Taco Bell gig.

      Tsnyder
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  • Profile picture of the author vok
    It's a flawed business model, most MLM's are ponzi schemes I find trying to cover it up with BS and a BS product or service.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by chriswick View Post

      most MLM's are ponzi schemes
      This is a contradiction in terms.

      If they're Ponzi schemes, then they're not MLM's at all. They're illegal. As regulators and courts are quick to point out.

      Also "most" is a huge exaggeration.

      What I think you meant to say is that some of the purported MLM's you've seen (and this is probably because you look at the ones promoted online, where scams abound) have actually turned out, on examination, not to be MLM's at all, but Ponzi scams? You live in the UK, so all you need to do is report them to your local Trading Standards Officer, who then has a statutory obligation to investigate. "Simples".
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      • Profile picture of the author vok
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        This is a contradiction in terms.

        If they're Ponzi schemes, then they're not MLM's at all. They're illegal. As regulators and courts are quick to point out.

        Also "most" is a huge exaggeration.

        What I think you meant to say is that some of the purported MLM's you've seen (and this is probably because you look at the ones promoted online, where scams abound) have actually turned out, on examination, not to be MLM's at all, but Ponzi scams? You live in the UK, so all you need to do is report them to your local Trading Standards Officer, who then has a statutory obligation to investigate. "Simples".
        If the incentive in the MLM is recruitment of more people, and not the product itself then it's simply an pyramid scheme it's as simple as that. If most of the money is earned through recruitment and not the product or service itself then it's not a sustainable business model.

        If on the other hand most of the money is made through the product or service, and recruitment is a secondary scource of income then it is sustainable. That's the only time I'd be in favor of a company.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by chriswick View Post

          If the incentive in the MLM is recruitment of more people, and not the product itself then it's simply an pyramid scheme
          I agree. But in most of the world, these days, it's illegal for people to be paid for sponsoring/recruiting - a fact of which (it seems to me) even most active, business-building distributors are unaware.

          It's permissible to earn commissions on the commissionable element of product purchases made by new distributors, of course, but this is a different matter altogether.

          The conversations one sees about some of the "high-ticket network marketing opportunities" in which people say that (for example) the joining-fee is $1,500 are quite ridiculous. In no US state is it permissible for a network marketing company to charge more than $500 (and in almost all of Europe it's even less than that), and most charge far less. But people readily get confused between "joining-fees" (non-commissionable, by law) and voluntary product purchases.

          Originally Posted by chriswick View Post

          If most of the money is earned through recruitment and not the product or service itself then it's not a sustainable business model.
          More to the point, Chris, it's not a legal one (in most of the world).

          Originally Posted by chriswick View Post

          If on the other hand most of the money is made through the product or service, and recruitment is a secondary scource of income then it is sustainable. That's the only time I'd be in favor of a company.
          It may be "sustainable", but it simply isn't legal for commissions to be paid "for sponsoring". This point is almost universally misunderstood.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
          Originally Posted by chriswick View Post

          If the incentive in the MLM is recruitment of more people, and not the product itself then it's simply an pyramid scheme it's as simple as that. If most of the money is earned through recruitment and not the product or service itself then it's not a sustainable business model.

          If on the other hand most of the money is made through the product or service, and recruitment is a secondary scource of income then it is sustainable. That's the only time I'd be in favor of a company.
          See... this is the frustrating part of threads on this subject.

          The post quoted above was written by someone I presume
          to be of good will and intention. The problem is that while it
          appears to say something important it really doesn't say anything
          at all.

          I don't know of a single company that pays a single dime for the
          act of recruiting. Such payments are illegal in the U.S. and have
          been for a very long time. The same is true in most countries.

          Given that what I stated above is fact I can only conclude that
          the poster quoted is simply talking without any knowledge of the
          subject. They sound smart to those who share their ignorance.

          Tsnyder
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  • Profile picture of the author dahlgren_m
    I recently jumped on the Kyani Train, and it's looking very good so far. I live in norway, but Sweden has already some of the top earners in the world.

    Networking is pretty cool, and it's very lucrative.
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  • Profile picture of the author DPWeb
    I personally don't like MLM but I know you CAN make money from it. And please don't act like IM is so different from MLM. You can use INTERNET MARKETING to PROMOTE your MLM.

    I'm not advocating for MLM, I'm advocating for general marketing knowledge. There are even social media and internet based MLM programs.

    To say that MLM is different from IM, is to say you have a misunderstanding of IM. IM is a form of marketing.

    You don't have to chase down friends/family/co workers to succeed in MLM or in IM. If you succeed in MLM you will likely succeed in IM. If you failed in MLM, you may fail in IM. You may have failed at MLM but succeeded at IM only because you were too new to marketing when you started with MLM.

    The principles are the same no matter what you are promoting, the process is the same. You go out find leads, pitch them your offer, send them to a call to action. What part of MLM and IM differs there? There is no difference. The goal is the same.

    Remember: I'M not defending MLM. I'm defending Internet Marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    To those so strongly against MLM's how many have you actually tried out of the thousands in existence? If the first three motels you ever went to were in the red light district, were dirty, noisy and you paid more than what you think you should; does that mean all motels are bad?

    I have a friend in a MLM that has made a full-time income for his family for many years. He sells a product. That's it. It is a good product at a competitive price. There are MANY honest Warriors in MLM's or various forms of network marketing.

    MLM's are:
    Scams = some are and some are not.
    Pyramid schemes = some are and some are not.
    Just pay big to those who get in first or early = some do and some do not.
    Only make money by recruiting = true for some and not for others.

    Whenever I see the controversy start it seems like those that defend MLMs' admit there are some scams and terrible MLM's in the world. The people Against MLM's always want to claim that ALL are scams and will not budge that there could be some great examples. That is just not reasonable or based on real world examples.

    I also find it funny that many that are very passionate against ALL MLM's use many of the same or similar marketing methods online.

    Is a webinar similar to a house party? Is a "Tell a friend" script similar to encouraging someone to tell their family and friends? Do you pay commissions to affiliates when they sell your product? Do you give away an ebook just like an MLMer may give away a free sample? Do you pay for advertising just like an MLMer might pay to have flyers hung on doors?

    There are many hybrid companies that mix Internet marketing, direct sales, and even some with brick and mortar locations. Often it is difficult anymore to put a company in a strict classification. The company should be judged by its overall merits not simply by the methods it uses to promote itself.

    Years ago I had a great neighbor that was a used car salesman. He was honest and a man of integrity. He would do anything to go out of his way to help you with anything. I always hated to hear the stereotypical slams against used car salesmen. The negative comments may be very justified in some cases but not ALL cases.

    Sorry for the rant... Peace and love....
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by Janice Sperry View Post

      To those so strongly against MLM's how many have you actually tried out of the thousands in existence? If the first three motels you ever went to were in the red light district, were dirty, noisy and you paid more than what you think you should; does that mean all motels are bad?
      (My answer is meant in a general sense, and not directed at you Janice)

      But at some point you would either stop going to motels or start deluding yourself that the motels weren't all that bad and people just didn't "understand" them.

      No, I'm not going to keep trying them to find a good one. Why should I?

      And going back to the motel analogy...if I visited motels and they turned out like you described should I just keep my mouth shut about it? Or should I try to warn my friends to stay aways from them.

      MLM has problems. Period. Those who can't accept or admit it are either deluding themselves or deluding others on purpose. Are there exceptions? Probably. But as a whole, there are problems.

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        And going back to the motel analogy...if I visited motels and they turned out like you described should I just keep my mouth shut about it? Or should I try to warn my friends to stay aways from them.

        MLM has problems. Period. Those who can't accept or admit it are either deluding themselves or deluding others on purpose. Are there exceptions? Probably. But as a whole, there are problems.
        I do like that motel analogy.

        For the rest, just substitute IM for MLM. But I don't think people want to think about that, but would rather rant about MLM .

        Marvin

        PS - Like a number of others, I also tried MLM and found it wasn't for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by Janice Sperry View Post

      Is a webinar similar to a house party?
      Depends on how each is conducted.

      Is a "Tell a friend" script similar to encouraging someone to tell their family and friends?
      Only if the "tell a friend" script has a built-in functionality to KEEP contacting those same family and friends, and to keep emailing them at ever possible opportunity that you can work it in.

      Do you pay commissions to affiliates when they sell your product?
      I have, but that's not even close to the same thing, though MLMers like to make it sound that simple. The difference is the number of levels, ALSO every MLM that I'm aware of (there could certainly be exceptions) only pays you if you move a certain volume. Not to mention the percentages are way different. I pay affiliates 50% of EVERY sale, starting with the very first sale. A lot of MLMs only pay 3% to 5% and that's only AFTER you sell enough to qualify for it.

      Do you give away an ebook just like an MLMer may give away a free sample?
      This applies in brick and mortar businesses as well as other industries. It is not exclusive to IM or MLM so not the strongest argument, but you do have a point.

      Do you pay for advertising just like an MLMer might pay to have flyers hung on doors?
      Yes, but I get to CHOOSE what my advertising says, as opposed to only distributing "approved" materials. The reason I mention that is the MLM lie that "you will be owning your own business". Wrong! You will be allowed to do all the grunt work, and you better follow the rules to the letter, and if they decide to change the rules...tough!

      There are many hybrid companies that mix Internet marketing, direct sales, and even some with brick and mortar locations. Often it is difficult anymore to put a company in a strict classification. The company should be judged by its overall merits not simply by the methods it uses to promote itself.
      And those merits should be determined through unbiased sources whenever possible.

      Years ago I had a great neighbor that was a used car salesman. He was honest and a man of integrity. He would do anything to go out of his way to help you with anything. I always hated to hear the stereotypical slams against used car salesmen. The negative comments may be very justified in some cases but not ALL cases.
      Agreed. I believe I have said there may be exceptions (more than once).

      Sorry for the rant... Peace and love....
      No need to apologize. It's a topic that people tend to get passionate about.

      All the best,
      Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author darrenmonroe
    Originally Posted by astnpwrz View Post

    I want to get straight to the point. I was introduced to MLM when I was 18 (about 6 yrs ago) and I dont need to go into details about how it turned out. I was supposed to retire by 22 LOL. You all know how the story goes. Anyway...i didnt realize it then, but my whole purpose for getting in to it was money and the promise of early retirement. Mostly money. There was actually NO kind of substance behind what I was doing + no prospecting skills. So I didnt work out for me. Once I figured out im actually NOT interested in that kind of "business model" I felt a huge weight off my shoulders. After discovering REAL marketing through IM, I found what I was really interested in. I love looking at numbers, conversions etc. and the better I become the more money I make. Money is just a by product. The next step is to move on the local stuff. A way to help even more people. Thanks to those who read this.

    P.S. mlm doesnt suck, its just not for everybody. I prefer direct sales. Cheers
    Hey follow your passion and talent. When they change you change. OR ELSE
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  • Profile picture of the author Miles Kral
    I was in the same boat years ago, I got into a MLM and, you guessed it, I lost money. But the one thing I'm grateful for is that it gave me the entrepreneurial spirit. Before my little MLM adventure I didn't want anything to do with owning a business, since then I heaven't done anything else and I love it. There's something to be said for being in business by yourself, instead of with everyone else like the MLM's preach.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pursuit2Success
    MLM won't work out, it's just a number game really. You just need to recruit people and sooner or later people will QUIT. Plus, it's like only 1 out of a million will become rich...
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by Pursuit2Success View Post

      MLM won't work out, it's just a number game really. You just need to recruit people and sooner or later people will QUIT. Plus, it's like only 1 out of a million will become rich...
      WOW! That was some profound insight...

      Numbers game? Really? Do you market for a living?
      Do you understand what the term "numbers game" means?

      Just need to recruit people? bbbzzzzttt... wrong answer!

      Sooner or later people will QUIT? Ya' think? Is there any
      occupation, hobby, business or vocation you can think of where
      some percentage of the participants will not QUIT? (not sure
      why we're shouting the word QUIT but I'm always up for playing
      along)

      It's like only 1 out of a million will become rich? Where do you
      find these statistics? I'm guessing you, like most people, are using
      the POOMA method...

      But, as long as we're talking about it, please define rich. Once
      you've given me the definition please tell me what percentage of
      people engaged in any occupation achieve that level of success.

      Tsnyder
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        I know quite a few IMers. A couple of them make 7 figures a year. A few, 3 or 4, make mid 6-figures. Another 7 or 8 just cleared the 100K mark this last year. 25 or so make in the 40-75K neighborhood. The rest, by far the bulk of the IM ppl I know, make far less, if anything.

        Funny thing is, I could substitute "IMers" above with just about anything, assuming I knew enough of them. Professional athletes, radio/tv personalities, small business owners, network marketers, rodeo cowboys, or plain old regular employees.

        Like it or not, not everyone is suited to be a top performer in any arena. That's just the way of things. Always has been, always will be.

        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        It's like only 1 out of a million will become rich? Where do you find these statistics? I'm guessing you, like most people, are using the POOMA method...
        Thanks a bunch for causing me to spit coffee all over my keyboard
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        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
          Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

          Thanks a bunch for causing me to spit coffee all over my keyboard
          I live to serve...

          Tsnyder
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  • Profile picture of the author luma2
    I really understand you, I was in the same situation, I started with MLM years ago, and never work with me, many people who start at the same time are making good money with their MLM business, but not me! I just retired from this business many years ago, once I start making my product and sell it all is great, I am growing and building a real business! I agree with you, mlm is not for everyone!.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    I think the problem with MLM and the people who hate it is the way some MLM companies teach you to do it. They tell you to go recruit friends and acquaintances and give them all this vague pie-in-the-sky type talk and until you get there you have no idea what it's all about and when you are finally there you're kind of hit with all of it, and you're like, "I never would have come here if I knew it was this." It's annoying, misleading, and causes you to lose respect for friends. That's the way it's been taught and that's the way it's been handled with some MLM companies, so I think this is one of the main things that turns people off of it.

    As a business model, I see not too much wrong with it except when there's a minimum amount of product you need to buy every month that can turn in to a hardship if you are not succeeding at it.
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  • Profile picture of the author webalytics
    Banned
    The genuine problem with MLM is everybody just wants to focus on signing up people under them instead of focusing on selling PRODUCTS. They very design of MLM tends to lead to its downfall in the long-run. Some MLM programs are successful but those are few and far between.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by webalytics View Post

      The genuine problem with MLM is everybody just wants to focus on signing up people under them instead of focusing on selling PRODUCTS.
      Those would be the dumb people... the smart ones understand how business really works


      They very design of MLM tends to lead to its downfall in the long-run.
      What... specifically... about the design of MLM do you believe leads to its downfall in the long run?



      Some MLM programs are successful but those are few and far between.
      Kinda like internet marketers, huh?

      Tsnyder
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  • Profile picture of the author satrap
    I really don't get the MLM thing and the hype about it with some people.

    As some have said, putting numbers on paper is easy and you can do amazing things with them, but when it comes down to it, its a totally different case.
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  • Profile picture of the author fred67
    Just an observation from reading through this thread >>>

    People condemning MLM = Negative Commenting

    People Supporting MLM = Mostly Positive Commenting

    I think that tells you all you need to know about the industry doesn't it?

    By the way ... I'm not involved with an MLM company myself, but think I may start searching now

    Cheers ..... Pete.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by fred67 View Post

      People condemning MLM = Negative Commenting
      People Supporting MLM = Mostly Positive Commenting
      I think that tells you all you need to know about the industry doesn't it?
      To be fair, Pete, I think you could observe the same almost anywhere about absolutely any industry: people condemning anything are always going to be using negative comment, by definition, and people supporting anything are going to be "positive commenting" - there's actually nothing unique to MLM in that at all.
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      • Profile picture of the author fred67
        Alexa ... you're absolutely right .. but I was refering solely to 'this' post which 'is' about MLM after all, and the negative commenters are frankly embarrassing themselves in my opinion ;-)

        Cheers .... Pete.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by fred67 View Post

          the negative commenters are frankly embarrassing themselves in my opinion ;-)
          I can't argue with you about that: the depth and breadth of ignorance, factual misunderstanding, misinformation and prejudice are breathtaking. :p
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          • Profile picture of the author davidsuiter
            I came from MLM into IM (steady) a couple of years ago so this is hindsight knowledge...

            MLM is an excellent business model in regards to monthly commissions from happy customers purchasing an excellent product or service.

            Done correctly and ethically you could have lifetime customers which means repeat business and sales, which means ongoing passive income from work done one time in the past...this is a good thing.

            Recruiting can help expand this income to a degree but recruiting should be a by product of moving a good product or service...not as a goal.

            I learned the hard way that "real" money comes when money changes hands by moving products or services.

            What can you teach your best friend about making "real" money in an MLM if you can't show him how to move the product or service?

            A happy customer may just be with you for years to come because he was sold on the product or service...while your best friend and newest distributor will probably fall away in 3 months because he was sold on the "opportunity".

            I believe you can build a solid income moving products in an MLM...I believe you can build an absolute FORTUNE if you can step up and become a leader who can help other people learn to sell the products or services and help them earn at least $400 of "real" money a month just selling product.

            If you can get someone to the point where they can earn $400 a month PROFIT then the question of whether they can make money is answered and now they can determine how much money they want to make...and the "work" that it is going to take (sorry for the profanity).

            Then when they do come across a genuine potential distributor they will have some confidence and the relevant experience and skills to help their new distributor set up shop and start to build an income of $400 dollars a month.

            The reason I am IM'ing nowadays is because I am not really the "leader" type and because back then I didn't have the skills and knowledge of marketing to pass along then.

            I wouldn't mind trying another MLM later down the road once I have a better marketing and selling "formula" (for lack of a better word) in place.

            But you can rest assured that I will never again try MLM until I believe that I can build the majority of my customer base through online marketing.

            There is a lot to be said about attracting people who are looking to buy what you are selling...can you say targeted traffic?

            In the end, just make sure you are doin' what you love...and gettin' paid good for doin' it!
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  • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
    One problem I see with MLM is the cost of products. As I understand it, MLM was created to cut back on distribution and marketing costs by letting happy customers sell your product. Similar to how a business can make a video go viral on Youtube and Facebook instead of buying advertising space.

    Then, when I come across MLM products, they are usually far more expensive than the 'same' product in a retail store. That seems to go against the original purpose of MLM?

    I think, that's why a lot of MLM get creative with their products - like the Aloe Vera one. Cosmetics are perfect for MLM because they are sold exclusively on dreams and marketing. That goes for expensive brand names as well.

    So, where are these products in MLM that are actually cheaper than those sold in Brick and Mortar?
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by JackPowers View Post

      One problem I see with MLM is the cost of products. As I understand it, MLM was created to cut back on distribution and marketing costs by letting happy customers sell your product. Similar to how a business can make a video go viral on Youtube and Facebook instead of buying advertising space.

      Then, when I come across MLM products, they are usually far more expensive than the 'same' product in a retail store. That seems to go against the original purpose of MLM?

      I think, that's why a lot of MLM get creative with their products - like the Aloe Vera one. Cosmetics are perfect for MLM because they are sold exclusively on dreams and marketing. That goes for expensive brand names as well.

      So, where are these products in MLM that are actually cheaper than those sold in Brick and Mortar?
      They're right here, Brother! Our company's products are
      1/3rd to 1/5th the cost of our B&M competition with zero
      difference in quality (some say ours is actually better than most)

      Tsnyder
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      • Profile picture of the author robbby
        There's nothing wrong with MLM's, the concept is win win, it's just a shame that very often it's the people who run them that is the problem.
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  • Originally Posted by astnpwrz View Post


    P.S. mlm doesnt suck, its just not for everybody. I prefer direct sales. Cheers
    Awesome.

    I'm glad that someone can admit this! Usually people are either ALL FOR MLM or ALL AGAINST MLM.

    It's usually pretty easy to tell whether the person is A) Doing really good with MLM, B) Brand New To MLM, or C) Failing/Given Up on MLM.

    MLM and Network Marketing is a great business model, and it works very well. But, it's not for everyone. Not everyone is a network marketer. That doesn't mean it sucks or that it "doesn't work" or that it's "a rip off" or "scheme"...

    I mean, how many people get a job at a restaurant and find out that cooking isn't their dream job? Not everyone goes on to be a master chef and cook for the rest of their lives.. But lots of people try it out and get their feet wet to see if it works for them or not.. MLM isn't much different from that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by ExploringInfinity View Post

      Awesome.

      I'm glad that someone can admit this! Usually people are either ALL FOR MLM or ALL AGAINST MLM.

      It's usually pretty easy to tell whether the person is A) Doing really good with MLM, B) Brand New To MLM, or C) Failing/Given Up on MLM.

      MLM and Network Marketing is a great business model, and it works very well. But, it's not for everyone. Not everyone is a network marketer. That doesn't mean it sucks or that it "doesn't work" or that it's "a rip off" or "scheme"...

      I mean, how many people get a job at a restaurant and find out that cooking isn't their dream job? Not everyone goes on to be a master chef and cook for the rest of their lives.. But lots of people try it out and get their feet wet to see if it works for them or not.. MLM isn't much different from that.
      Or, in my case...

      D) Was doing really well in MLM, then saw what was really going on and couldn't keep promoting it with a clear conscience.

      So, let's all admit that the industry, as a whole, has some problems. Shall we? Because it does. Are there good MLM? Probably (As I keep saying). But those on the "pro-MLM" side tend to pretend that there are NO problems with the model, but there are.

      How about Pro-MLMers...can you even admit that the overall industry has some problems? After all, I can admit that there may be some good MLMs out there.

      And, I'm not ignorant, misinformed or "breathtakingly" anything. I'm basing my comments on REAL experience, so...

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        Or, in my case...

        D) Was doing really well in MLM, then saw what was really going on and couldn't keep promoting it with a clear conscience.

        So, let's all admit that the industry, as a whole, has some problems. Shall we? Because it does. Are there good MLM? Probably (As I keep saying). But those on the "pro-MLM" side tend to pretend that there are NO problems with the model, but there are.

        How about Pro-MLMers...can you even admit that the overall industry has some problems? After all, I can admit that there may be some good MLMs out there.

        And, I'm not ignorant, misinformed or "breathtakingly" anything. I'm basing my comments on REAL experience, so...

        All the best,
        Michael
        Michael...

        I'm a little mystified... I don't believe I've ever met anyone
        of any level of credibility in MLM... NMW... whatever one wants
        to call it... that doesn't recognize and understand that the
        industry has its particular problems... same as any other.

        My question for you is... when you were doing very well but
        suddenly had an epiphany about how the business was promoted
        that you couldn't continue why did you quit? Why didn't you
        just build your own business in a manner that squared with your
        own set of ethics?

        I certainly disagree with MANY people in MLM but I'm sure as hell
        not going to let their silliness stop me from achieving things that
        really can't be achieved anywhere else. I'm going to drown them
        out by teaching an army of people how to do it the right way.

        I mean, seriously, there are plenty of people in IM who I presume
        don't live up to your ethical standards regarding how they promote
        the "industry." I doubt what they do will cause you to quit...

        Tsnyder
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        • Profile picture of the author bahnsurf
          Hi,

          Wow!! Seldom would I see WF becoming a topic of MLM vs IM. Well, this had been debated for many years in regards to MLM. With that being said, both industry had enjoy success stories and not-so-success stories.

          Scammers are found in both IM and MLM where we hear and know some IM-er selling rehash stuff to earn some money, while MLM-er being scam into without proper knowledge.

          I've been in both fields in the past and now. You can google my name up, but that's not important because I'm going to share my view objectively on both subject.

          You see, both IM and MLM have different business model.

          IM

          In IM, we either search for affiliate product, selling WSO or creating our own product, courses and coaching lesson to sell. The learning curve for a complete newbie is difficult. They need to learn keyword research, how to write articles, creating sites then they need to learn how to drive traffic. But that is mandatory.

          Then, they need to purchase courses/ebook or come to WF to look for information and how-to to do proper research and which product convert and other innovative ways to drive traffic.

          How much would they spend on these education? Is it worth it? Yes of course. How about promotion? If they are in profit, they can use the profit to go to the next level, do more promotions and exploring new niches/markets.

          What if they are not in profit? Do they drop out, persist or looking for another new shiny stuff? Well, only that person will know.

          With all the education and other business investment in IM, it can easily come 1K and above.

          MLM

          What about MLM?

          MLM or network marketing is about leverage and I presume most of the warriors here know about it. That why many created their own product and leverage on an army of affilate to help promote and in turn generate a passive income.

          Why many failed in MLM?

          It really depends a lot on several factors like system, the people, the training and individual. Many who jump into MLM maybe bought into "Turn Dreams Into Reality" and "Passive Income" and "Working only 2 hours a day".

          These however make an attractive ad line but in reality hard work is required, just like IM. They need to learn marketing (if one is not expose to marketing before, it maybe hard for them), communication skills and organization skills.

          This happens exactly in IM too.

          If you want to expand your online empire, you need to outsource and that where you communication skill come into play. You need to communicate with your outsource. You will also need to use your organization skill to properly manage project efficiently.

          How about the education investment part?

          If the team is willing to train their team using real IM methods, then their education investment is in the form of autoship.

          Is it expensive? Sure for some, because they will drop out and they will hop around other MLM opportunities like in IM where we will find other shiny object.

          How about using the profit they earn in MLM? Well, by then they are already in profit and have met quite a lot of people offline or online. They can then use these profit to roll into other venture like making a MLMBlueprint course or venture into other businesses or go for investment.

          This is usually the case for in IM. You can use these profit to churn out your own coaching lesson, invest in gold or to other businesses.

          The problem in MLM is that, those people who initially join are not far sighted as I discuss above. True, they want freedom, but they did not see things beyond that as what most IM people I came across.

          With that being said, both side of camps had one thing in common, Marketing. If one learn how to marketing online or offline (yes IM can market offline too), their business will grow.

          If you are in IM or MLM or both, ask yourself, what will you do if this is your business?

          All right, it's such a long post and I guess I'll stop here.

          - Jeffrey
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          • Profile picture of the author cobwab
            Mostly a bunch of pathological liars, con men and flimflam artists. These guys make money by selling "how to Get Rich in MLM" books, tapes, DVDs, seminars, webinars, etc.

            These scammers and so-called gurus wouldn't make a dime if they followed their so-called "Laws of MLM" that they feed to the suckers. One born every minute and two to take 'em.

            The laws of simple arithmetic prove that it is a fool's gamble.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
              Originally Posted by cobwab View Post

              Mostly a bunch of pathological liars, con men and flimflam artists. These guys make money by selling "how to Get Rich in MLM" books, tapes, DVDs, seminars, webinars, etc.

              These scammers and so-called gurus wouldn't make a dime if they followed their so-called "Laws of MLM" that they feed to the suckers. One born every minute and two to take 'em.

              The laws of simple arithmetic prove that it is a fool's gamble.
              Clearly written by a genius who has all the facts.... or not.

              Tsnyder
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by ExploringInfinity View Post

      I mean, how many people get a job at a restaurant and find out that cooking isn't their dream job? Not everyone goes on to be a master chef and cook for the rest of their lives.. But lots of people try it out and get their feet wet to see if it works for them or not.. MLM isn't much different from that.
      Um...with all due respect, you're comparing apples to oranges.

      The difference is that people aren't being talked into getting that job at the restaurant. Nor are they being told how glamorous that cooking job will be and how it will make all their dreams come true.

      That's only one of the differences, so yes MLM is COMPLETELY different from that.

      All the best,
      Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author marcopetriz
      Hello, I also thing MLM is not for all, just like everything alse in this world.
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  • Profile picture of the author TZ
    MLM = "falling in love with a product or service and sharing your love and passion for the product or service with others."

    So unless you can "find the love first".....run for the hills. It's not about money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by TZ View Post

      MLM = "falling in love with a product or service and sharing your love and passion for the product or service with others."

      So unless you can "find the love first".....run for the hills. It's not about money.
      Sounds like another typical MLM lie...I know, I told it to others for far too long. That's just a way to get new recruits to shut up about not earning money.

      You go into business to make money.

      You go into MLM to "build your dream".

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author TZ
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        Sounds like another typical MLM lie...I know, I told it to others for far too long. That's just a way to get new recruits to shut up about not earning money.

        You go into business to make money.

        You go into MLM to "build your dream".

        All the best,
        Michael
        Well said.

        More like "it's not about he money exclusively".

        Customers will KNOW if you don't 100% believe.

        Some of my MLM friends have really cool cell phones, and they hate it because I won't join in with them. They find Internet marketers and they start drooling. Disgusting too....have to keep mopping up after them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by TZ View Post

          Well said.

          More like "it's not about he money exclusively".

          Customers will KNOW if you don't 100% believe.
          Both of those statements are good and could apply to IM, MLM or any other product or service business.

          All the best,
          Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author jamie67
    Well said Tsnyder I agree with you 100%. I have been in and out of the Industry for 10 years. I have found a Company and intend to stick with it this time. Failure in the past - has been due to me quitting when the going got tough!

    To your success
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
    I love your post and agree with everything except the last part... multi level marketing does suck. It sucks in so many ways. It sucks time, life, money and reality out of the lives of millions. MLM by nature is a parasitic business model.

    I see so many tired deluded people still stuck in the MLM world. So sad. So many wasted years, so much failure, so little chance for success.

    I was a successful network marketer at one time... I still buy and sell products from network marketing companies occasionally. Good products, sold at market value, not hyped up crap sold at outrageous prices with false claims. The success I had was driven by the sale of consumable goods and useful products.... not by the success of selling false dreams.

    I have seen far to many people, skilled dedicated people, work the system exactly how they were told to work it... and get nowhere but broke. Yeah they made money... for their upline and not for themselves. But chasing dream after dream.

    I got tired of working hard to build up organizations of hundreds even thousands of people only to watch as the inevitable attrition rate and cross recruiting slowly ate away at the hard work so many had put in... the main reason... lack of stable leadership, cross recruiting, failure to focus on the product and not the fantasy.

    Network marketing has been around since the 50's and ponzi schemes much longer. One of the biggest early lies I heard in MLM was that you could build a business that could be passed on to your family as if it were some sort of asset. Since MLM has been around for half a century now how many people do you know who have successfully inherited network marketing businesses where they are not direct descendants of founders?

    Worse yet study the actual statistics... no not the fake "this is how many people fale" stats that people make up on the spot but check out the actual legally required disclosed financial reports of some of the biggest network marketing companies. Look at the actual % of people who make more than they spend. Then look at the % of people who actually make a full time income, then look at the % of people who create real wealth. Its something that the industry should be ashamed of... those stats don't lie... and they don't back up the lies and false dreams being sold.

    The most heartbreaking example I have seen lately was a family with 10 children. They lost their home, their office, their business... yet they are still chasing that MLM dream. Its a bit like trying to catch butterflies... you almost catch one then another more seemingly beautiful one flutters by and distracts you... you catch it and find its a dusty old moth. Sadly they had a strong successful retail business that could have easily been grown through IM and adding their own affiliate program for their own product lines...

    Nothing cures the MLM delusion better than a good hard fast and large dose of internet marketing cash rewards.

    Originally Posted by astnpwrz View Post

    I want to get straight to the point. I was introduced to MLM when I was 18 (about 6 yrs ago) and I dont need to go into details about how it turned out. I was supposed to retire by 22 LOL. You all know how the story goes. Anyway...i didnt realize it then, but my whole purpose for getting in to it was money and the promise of early retirement. Mostly money. There was actually NO kind of substance behind what I was doing + no prospecting skills. So I didnt work out for me. Once I figured out im actually NOT interested in that kind of "business model" I felt a huge weight off my shoulders. After discovering REAL marketing through IM, I found what I was really interested in. I love looking at numbers, conversions etc. and the better I become the more money I make. Money is just a by product. The next step is to move on the local stuff. A way to help even more people. Thanks to those who read this.

    P.S. mlm doesnt suck, its just not for everybody. I prefer direct sales. Cheers
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

      I love your post and agree with everything except the last part... multi level marketing does suck. It sucks in so many ways. It sucks time, life, money and reality out of the lives of millions. MLM by nature is a parasitic business model.

      I see so many tired deluded people still stuck in the MLM world. So sad. So many wasted years, so much failure, so little chance for success.

      I was a successful network marketer at one time... I still buy and sell products from network marketing companies occasionally. Good products, sold at market value, not hyped up crap sold at outrageous prices with false claims. The success I had was driven by the sale of consumable goods and useful products.... not by the success of selling false dreams.

      I have seen far to many people, skilled dedicated people, work the system exactly how they were told to work it... and get nowhere but broke. Yeah they made money... for their upline and not for themselves. But chasing dream after dream.

      I got tired of working hard to build up organizations of hundreds even thousands of people only to watch as the inevitable attrition rate and cross recruiting slowly ate away at the hard work so many had put in... the main reason... lack of stable leadership, cross recruiting, failure to focus on the product and not the fantasy.

      Network marketing has been around since the 50's and ponzi schemes much longer. One of the biggest early lies I heard in MLM was that you could build a business that could be passed on to your family as if it were some sort of asset. Since MLM has been around for half a century now how many people do you know who have successfully inherited network marketing businesses where they are not direct descendants of founders?

      Worse yet study the actual statistics... no not the fake "this is how many people fale" stats that people make up on the spot but check out the actual legally required disclosed financial reports of some of the biggest network marketing companies. Look at the actual % of people who make more than they spend. Then look at the % of people who actually make a full time income, then look at the % of people who create real wealth. Its something that the industry should be ashamed of... those stats don't lie... and they don't back up the lies and false dreams being sold.

      The most heartbreaking example I have seen lately was a family with 10 children. They lost their home, their office, their business... yet they are still chasing that MLM dream. Its a bit like trying to catch butterflies... you almost catch one then another more seemingly beautiful one flutters by and distracts you... you catch it and find its a dusty old moth. Sadly they had a strong successful retail business that could have easily been grown through IM and adding their own affiliate program for their own product lines...

      Nothing cures the MLM delusion better than a good hard fast and large dose of internet marketing cash rewards.
      Josh...

      You're one of the guys on this forum I greatly respect but
      I can't give you a pass for that reason.

      Every word you wrote about MLM is also true about the market
      you play in... and derive serious income from.

      I've been involved in MLM for more than 30 years and have
      realized the kind of success that is the current subject of most
      fledgling IMers dreams.

      I have also been involved in IM for about 10 years now and the
      plain truth is I've seen far more pure bull**** and lies in IM than
      I've ever seen in MLM.

      You wrote... "Nothing cures the MLM delusion better than a good
      hard fast and large dose of internet marketing cash rewards."

      There it is... the IM mantra... every business has one. Tell me, Josh,
      what percentage of IMers will EVER experience the rush produced by
      that hard and fast dose of internet marketing cash?

      The number will be pretty damned small and you know it.

      I don't have any hard and fast numbers because none are available
      but I've seen far more scam artists marketing crap online than I've
      ever run across in 30+ years in MLM.

      You say you were successful at building organizations of hundreds, even
      thousands, but they would eventually fall apart. In your words the main
      reason was lack of stable leadership.

      Guess what, Josh... that's 100% on YOU.

      You were probably too young and naive at the time to understand
      this important principle but had you spent less time building organizations
      and more time developing leaders you'd probably have one of those
      businesses that could be willed to your family after you're gone.

      I do.

      I have a business that I haven't been active with since the mid 90s
      that just keeps cranking out residual income month after month. Most
      of the people in that organization don't even know I'm their upline.

      I'm building another one right now... count on it.

      Tsnyder
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  • Profile picture of the author webapex
    Penn and Teller did an "analysis" of MLM on their B.S. cable program, here's part 1 hope the Youtube approved video is not too racy for this crowd.

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    • Profile picture of the author DawnMarie
      Originally Posted by webapex View Post

      Penn and Teller did an "analysis" of MLM on their B.S. cable program, here's part 1 hope the Youtube approved video is not too racy for this crowd.
      Ha! I'm no Penn and Teller fan but that was entertaining!

      And what they said about social security being a pyramid - spot on, I'm afraid.
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      • Profile picture of the author TrekkieGrrrl
        If you have a product or service that you find customers for and don't rely only on recruiting, then it's just like affiliate sales. (Except the commission is a lot higher than the 4-8% that Amazon offers.)

        I'm not in an MLM, so I don't have a pony in this circus. Just chiming in.
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        • Originally Posted by TrekkieGrrrl View Post

          If you have a product or service that you find customers for and don't rely only on recruiting, then it's just like affiliate sales. (Except the commission is a lot higher than the 4-8% that Amazon offers.)

          I'm not in an MLM, so I don't have a pony in this circus. Just chiming in.

          COMPLETELY off topic, but I really hate that I got Rick-rolled by your siggy. lol I have strategically avoided it for a year because I live on Youtube most days. Congrats. You broke my streak. Cool. ^5 to you!

          On topic: I am not in an MLM, but I did start there. To be fair, I loved the potential, and I believed that my hard work would make me and my family financially independent. The truth is that I left that company and joined another where the relationships were great but the product cost too much to justify trying to recruit family or strangers. I would have felt badly for pushing something so far outside the budget of most people.

          I left the second company after getting into an email marketing program that allowed me to get something like 10,000 email business builder leads for $25 a month. In exchange for purchasing some healthy products (health, weight loss, beauty, green cleaning products, etc.), I was given the leads. The products were from a direct sales company, and the price was affordable. It seemed acceptable at the time.

          It took about a month for me to completely get sick of the leads and stop paying for the service; however, the products were surprisingly effective. They did what they claimed...and I was not spending an arm and a leg to get the products each month. What was even more intriguing was that it didn't matter if I build an organization or not.

          So...I didn't build an organization. I didn't promote the business. At all. I was afraid to do so because I know how easy it is to turn people off from a home business. Instead, I used the products the way I would have used them if they had come from Wal Mart. My mother asked for some lotion, and I let her use mine. She enrolled the next day.

          My sister, who lives in Texas (I am in NC) happened to mention her child's eczema and I recommended that she take a look at a product. Two days later, she enrolled. My next door neighbor. My friend from church. One of my best friends who lives in Philadelphia....etc...they all enrolled and I never pitched them once. For me, I looked at my business after 4 months and could see where I was headed, and it was not to the poor house.

          I know this is long, but please bear with me. Late last year, I got devastating news from an immediate family member and was literally unable to work. I could not function with the emotional damage done to me and my family. I ordered my products each month because I love the products, but I did NO work. For 4 months. Commission checks kept coming, even with my lack of work. Three days ago, I enrolled someone again after all that time, and took a moment to go in my backoffice to see if I had lost everyone in my organization.

          To my great joy, out of 12 people, I still had 8 on the books who are happy to be customers for a long, long time. They have NO interest in building a business, but they have no interest in being without the products either. As I stated earlier, I left MLM and went into Direct Sales, and IM helps me grow my business effortlessly. I also lead co-op with people in my organization, so I am there if people eventually do decide that they want to build and grow.

          My business (amazingly) was there for me when I could not be there for myself...and I appreciate that more than I can express. Residual income is nice...not a pipe dream. It's real if you know what to do and truly want to help others.

          I don't know. I have been burned about 13 times in the past year by scammy IM products and only once in the past year by my business/company. If you are ethical and know what you are doing and why, it is possible to succeed...but you have to turn your focus from you to others.

          After all, "others" are the reason why we (IMers, MLMers, and Direct Sellers) have any kind of a business to build in the first place.

          I think all work is honorable, and there is work suited for everyone.

          O.P.....Sorry your MLM passion is gone and that you had a bad experience. Best to you in your current and future ventures! Thanks for starting this dialogue.

          Christi
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          • Profile picture of the author TrekkieGrrrl
            Originally Posted by Johnsonconsulting1 View Post

            COMPLETELY off topic, but I really hate that I got Rick-rolled by your siggy. lol I have strategically avoided it for a year because I live on Youtube most days. Congrats. You broke my streak. Cool. ^5 to you!

            Christi
            In my defense, I did tell you not to click on the link.

            As far as the rest of your post, I have seen some companies that seemed like they could be worked as a legitimate affiliate program - affordable price, hungry market, etc.

            I'm glad you found a good company.
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        • Profile picture of the author paulie888
          Originally Posted by TrekkieGrrrl View Post

          If you have a product or service that you find customers for and don't rely only on recruiting, then it's just like affiliate sales. (Except the commission is a lot higher than the 4-8% that Amazon offers.)

          I'm not in an MLM, so I don't have a pony in this circus. Just chiming in.
          I couldn't agree more, it's really not all that different from a affiliate program that has been extended out a couple more levels - there are 1 and 2-tier affiliate programs out there in the IM niche and other niches as well, and MLM just extends this concept further.

          It's funny how people can attach so much prejudice and negativity to a three letter acronym.
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  • Profile picture of the author BruceWood
    MLM, direct sales, affiliate deals -- it's all retail sales, folks! Only the pitch is different.

    I'm from a family of retailers. My uncles owned grocery stores, Dad owned a picture frame business, and Mom was the #3 Tupperware manager in the USA. When you know successful people in retail, they all have one thing in common- they've found a comfortable way to promote merchandise.

    Let's get over prejudices about one method or the other. There's always some group that finds it easy to call the other ones scammers.

    For myself, internet direct sales has been fascinating, but it is misunderstood, just like MLMs are. I recently spoke about internet marketing to a local business group, and broke the ice by introducing myself and saying "I create Internet scams." The room was silent. So I followed with "It's very lucrative," gave a huge smile and said "Uh, no, I don't do that!" Then I started my presentation.
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  • Profile picture of the author indiatext
    MLM marketing is not only about working hard, it also includes taking your group along and make them also work hard in order to be successful. You can yourself work hard for achieveing your aims but asking someone else to work hard is a very difficult job it demands...this was the reason i switched over for...
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  • Profile picture of the author hotlinkz
    My passion for MLM departed after plunking down $2800 in 1991 on some company who's name I can't even remember. Took me about 4 years to earn back about $2000 of that...ate dirt on the $800. Guess I count it as a blessing that they didn't fold shortly after taking my money.
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    • Profile picture of the author missm2m
      Originally Posted by hotlinkz View Post

      My passion for MLM departed after plunking down $2800 in 1991 on some company who's name I can't even remember. Took me about 4 years to earn back about $2000 of that...ate dirt on the $800. Guess I count it as a blessing that they didn't fold shortly after taking my money.
      Sorry about your costly experience. Ditto for many.....(in any business really though you can lose your investment...)

      But you reminded of this.... a big difference in IM and MLM is just that. If an IM company/product 'folds'.....you just lose a product to sell and a little work you put in.

      If an MLM company 'folds' you might lose $ thousands and lots more......

      The sad part is, is that that happens more than maybe some realize. I've had personal friends or acquaintences and known of others who've built huge 'downlines' and that's exactly what happened.

      Sometimes the company didn't just 'fold'.....sometimes it got 'sold' (or appears to; sometimes trying to 're'-group....legally, especially when the 'commissions' get too big for their liking) and you're left with zero downline = zero income. Through no fault of your own as far as that part of it.

      It's a high risk to take; maybe the benefits outweigh that risk, obviously to many. Many others might not even be aware that it can happen and does. Not to sound scary tho! Just a fact.....

      Hey just a heads up......The space shuttle Discovery is set for lift-off Thursday afternoon, tomorrow, 4:30-ish? last news I caught. Tweet it or something!
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  • Profile picture of the author ValWu
    Originally Posted by Gordon Gekko View Post

    I realized the same thing not too long ago. I was working with an MLM company, won't mention their names. I did okay as far as money, but I didn't enjoy the activity. I liked the product, so selling it wasn't a problem because I believed in what I was selling. But still...there was no fun in it.

    I know people that are very successful in MLM. I know one guy who makes over $1 Million Dollars a year in MLM. He was the former president of Noni Juice. This guy is an excellent salesman. He's invited me to his house a few times to watch him give sales speeches. 50 people would come and he'd sign up more than half of them. Dude is like an artist at work when it comes to selling MLM. He's so good of a salesman, that he's a fat guy whose able to convince people to buy health products, lol.

    LOL....

    I was in a weight loss MLM company 10 years ago, and just like you said some of the top leaders are not even in good shape but they were making money selling weight loss products.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fred1
    I have a college buddy who has earned millions in MLM/network marketing since the mid 90's.

    I actually recruited him into an MLM I was promoting back in '96! That company went under and I eventually gave up on MLM, but he fell in love with it, and endured a few bad companies before finding his success.

    Today, he lives in a mansion, owns an exotic car and is very well respected in the industry. However, even with seeing his massive success, I HAVE NO DESIRE TO DO MLM ever again. It's just not for me.

    One of the things I don't like is that so many big hitters move around from company to company quite a bit. My friend has been in 5 different MLM's since he's had his huge success. A few years ago, I ran into him at a barbershop & he grabbed a binder from his car & showed me copies of some of his recent checks totaling hundreds of thousands in commissions.... a few months later, he left that company, then left the next company after a year or so, & is now making bank with another company, which I'm guessing he'll be leaving in a few years also.
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    • Profile picture of the author missm2m
      Originally Posted by Fred1 View Post

      I have a college buddy who has earned millions in MLM/network marketing since the mid 90's.

      I actually recruited him into an MLM I was promoting back in '96! That company went under and I eventually gave up on MLM, but he fell in love with it, and endured a few bad companies before finding his success.

      Today, he lives in a mansion, owns an exotic car and is very well respected in the industry. However, even with seeing his massive success, I HAVE NO DESIRE TO DO MLM ever again. It's just not for me.

      One of the things I don't like is that so many big hitters move around from company to company quite a bit. My friend has been in 5 different MLM's since he's had his huge success. A few years ago, I ran into him at a barbershop & he grabbed a binder from his car & showed me copies of some of his recent checks totaling hundreds of thousands in commissions.... a few months later, he left that company, then left the next company after a year or so, & is now making bank with another company, which I'm guessing he'll be leaving in a few years also.
      Wish him well... if he's personally ok with it.

      Funny, as long as I can remember though, MLM has been trying to justify itself.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brucew0617
    MLM, a marketing strategy in which the sales force is compensated not only for sales they personally generate, but also for the sales of others they recruit, creating a downline of distributors and a hierarchy of multiple levels of compensation. It's a great business way, but some become to pyramid schemes.
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  • Profile picture of the author snginnovations
    When the focus is on getting broke employees/consultants/distributors to pay you for a job, all you're doing is screwing people.

    When the focus is delivering information or products to people searching for it, you're actually doing a service for buyer and seller.
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  • Profile picture of the author kin_lau
    The MLM didn't work because not everyone have the right mindset and understand what it takes to success. Some people sign up just because of money, and don't understand it is a whole new busienss and it need to build up by you. You alone determine your success. And with those wrong expectation, people will try a few things, when they meet obstacle, they will stop and say the MLM didn't work. They expect to get rich quick and money comes in while they're sleeping. Yes, this will happen but a lot of work need to be done before that can happen.

    Same things apply to the Internet Marketing world, if people come in with the mentality they can make money just making a few mouse click, using some kind of software etc. When they found out the reality, they will say, IM is not working.

    It takes a lot of productive hours and determination to make something works. The technology can help us to some extend, but still it's the human behind that works hard to earn the money by providing another human a benefit.
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  • Profile picture of the author lindgren
    Been there done that - and couldn't afford the T-shirt to show for it :-)

    I think a main reason for mlm failure is o fcourse the math so well explained in this thread, but also another important point:

    Most of the products being sold in mlm are NOT products, that we really need - they could just be nice to have, if they deliver what they promise and they rarely do.

    All the "brazialian jungle miracle fruit" or creams or what ever. they are extremely hard to sell and on top of that you need to convince people on the business opportunity.

    Many people are scared of business oppportunity, so end of the day - new members of mlm are nothing but cannon fodder for the guys in the very top of mlm.

    Glad you decided to go for IM - and become your OWN boss.

    cheers
    Tina
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    Best Wishes
    Tina Lindgren


    http://www.tinalindgren.com
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