Get *DIGITAL SIGNATURES* from Buyers > Offer no refunds for Digital deliveries!

[radhika]

Guys and Girls,

Since couple of weeks there are very many threads on refunds.

Buyers asking refunds ...
Serial refunders ...
Chargebacks ...
Paypal won't help with digital products ...
Scammers buy and asking refund with distributing pirated copies ...

(3 years back I was in the same position when I was not selling my software with a license code or encryption and my script was translated into japanese and was sold by a person illegally. So I did a research back then and saved few urls to use for myself. I was just posting here, if they can be useful to anybody.)

These sites take digital signatures from your buyers.

Digital Signature Electronic E Contracts Sign SignatureLink
Electronic Signature Service | PRONTO Online
Electronically sign your documents and forms online using digital signature software from Yozons
Digital Signature & Electronic Signature Software Solutions - E-Lock

Useful info:
Digital Signature and Electronic Signature resources from E-Lock
Legal Significance Of Digital Signatures LAW INFORMATION

You can keep a Refund policy - "This is digital product. No refunds are offered because of the nature of the product. Purchasing our product means you understand above statement." or something similar. Get a digital signature.

Sure this have other drawbacks like legit buyer get suspicious that 'what if I really don't like this product and with this no refund policy?'. Way around can be - Try to give free first few chapters or few day trial before they purchase ...

Note: If the peson goes for a chargeback, you can producr this legally signed document to your payment processor and the bank that charging you.

I don't know ... just I want to share what I was thinking few years back.

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[Jared Alberghini]

Thanks for reminding me about Digital Signatures radhika,

I had forgotten about that until now... I had planned to set this up but never got around to it.

Has anyone here been using Digital Signatures?

If so, what company do you use... what are the costs?

Pros/Cons - does it mess with conversion rates, or make it harder for your customer to purchase?

Thanks again,

- Jared

[radhika]

Originally Posted by Jared Alberghini

Has anyone here been using Digital Signatures?

If so, what company do you use... what are the costs?

Pros/Cons - does it mess with conversion rates, or make it harder for your customer to purchase?

- Jared

I contacted both signaturelink.com and esignforms.com back then. I thought both were affordable for me. (esignforms used to be under different company name - 'yozons.com') I still have their emails. It won't be much if you host it on your site. But few things are needed like some Java modules etc. But if they host, they will charge you for each signature.

Pros and cons? You have to show the value of the product in the form of free trial or sample info etc. That could work, I guess.

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[radhika]

Originally Posted by polimedia

Why not just make your own ? A simple "type your name in this field" and have it stored in a db along with the time.

This won't become legal document.

The one the above services provide will be encrypted digitally and the document is taken as legal.

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[DussaultPR]

Were you ever able to use it successfully to fight chargebacks? And if you did was it successful every time?

It's time for banks and payment processors to do something to protect us in this digital world, and this method would work.

[Jared Alberghini]

Originally Posted by polimedia

I'm not aware of much legal practice

just encrypting something yourself won't hold up in a court of law...

these services provide a legal binding contract that will protect you.

- Jared

[Jared Alberghini]

Originally Posted by polimedia

I might have missed the memo, but far as I know, the only person in a better position than you yourself in a signature dispute is a bonded nottary. Unless this website is actually bonded and willing to claim they saw your customer sign, some alphanumeric string stored on your server or on their server has about the same legal value.

LOL... so you are proposing that we get a Public Notary Official (not nottary btw) to physically come to our place of business and sign a legal document every time we make a sale?

That's the point of using these services... they do offer the same legality as a notary.

GWTP....

- Jared

[Jared Alberghini]

Originally Posted by polimedia

You know. It can actually be the case that something doesn't happen just because you say it does. Or think it should.

I understand this might come as a tremedous shock to you.

You won't stop until you get on everyone's ignore list will you???

If you don't have anything useful to say... (especially if you have no knowledge on the subject) don't say anything at all...

We are trying to discuss digital signatures and your bantering is not helping nor providing any useful information.

You have just joined the WF today, and already you have started multiple fights in multiple posts... that's not the way to make friends around here.

- Jared

[radhika]

Originally Posted by polimedia

I think this is a case of tinsel and wishful thinking.

For one, you can encrypt anything yourself by going md5() in php. This would also be "digitally". For the other, I'm not sure what "document" you're talking about, or who's taking it, but I'm not aware of much legal practice enshrining a distinction about the two methods proposed.

I am not recommending these digital signature services to you or anyone. I posted it here because I was about to use these for myself few years back.

I specifically asked them that I can use these digital signatures for chargeback disputes. They said yes. Then why can't these be used to stop refunds?

Have you seen software sellers like Regnow.com? They are also take these kind of digital signatures on their purchase page.

If you have any questions, direct them to the web sites I listed in my first post. They will give you correct answers. What extent these digitally signed documents can go in real world law enforcement?

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[radhika]

Originally Posted by polimedia

So I went to the "overwiew" page of the first website you indicated originally, at Digital Signature Electronic E Contracts Sign SignatureLink

grep -i -n legal
no matches
grep -i -n court
no matches

I think that should be sufficient to settle the point.

Search on Google for 'Digital signatures'. It seems digital signatures are slowly gaining acceptence ...

Digital Signature and Electronic Signature resources from E-Lock
Legal Significance Of Digital Signatures LAW INFORMATION

I am not trying to convince you. After your search, I did a search on google. And there are many sites that telling digital signatures are becoming legal and replacng paper forms, especially international trading.

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[novasoft]

Hey Radhika,

Does paypal honor this? For example if a person downloads your software and then does a chargeback, will this digital signature be enough for paypal to release the funds it holds back?

Anybody have a personal experience with this?

Cheers
Satya

[radhika]

Originally Posted by novasoft

Hey Radhika,

Does paypal honor this? For example if a person downloads your software and then does a chargeback, will this digital signature be enough for paypal to release the funds it holds back?

Anybody have a personal experience with this?

Cheers
Satya

Satya,

I don't know about the payment processors. Because I didn't actually use this digital signatures for myself as I found out another method of securing the sales when I was still enquiring about pros/cons of this method. So I am sorry ... You have to ask Paypal people.

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[Chris Lockwood]

Originally Posted by novasoft

Does paypal honor this? For example if a person downloads your software and then does a chargeback, will this digital signature be enough for paypal to release the funds it holds back?

No. It's up to the credit card issuer to decide whether the chargeback sticks. Paypal would prefer that it did not, since it is against their account.