Is this ethical?! This guy is paying his outsources <$2/HOUR!!!

[richdirtygirl]

Originally Posted by Alexandre Valois

RDG, depending on the area, especially in the south, yes, kidnapping can be a real threat here in the philippines.

Alexandre, thanks for the info...

and sorry for the delay.

RDG

[Preben Frenning]

I talked with a Philipino exchange student today, and he told me he was making 7,000RPS/mo. When he worked back in the Phillipines.
I told him that I'll help him get an online job that pays at least 10,000RPS and upwards when he comes back, which should be extremely doable.
10,000RPS = Approx. $250/mo, and he thought it was awesome!

He had a bachelor in IT science, and was quite good in english, so his chances are good.

He also told me that there was extremely many new graduates who can't find jobs over there. He said the government doesn't care much, and that the best Philipinos worked abroad.

Just an update for me =) Now go hire someone to write your articles or make your software!

- Prebz

[Nicholas Ho]

Check this out : 300,000 could lose jobs in Philippines - The China Post

So is this a goldmine? You bet!

[Preben Frenning]

OMG! IM outsourcing suddenly became charity!
Now the danger lies in people taking advantage of this =(

Remember to always treat your employees with respect, and don't abuse crisis' like this!

Still, you can take advantage of it by hiring qualified workers ;o)

[johnjonas]

My guess is that as people in the US realize how smart, loyal, educated, and hard working the Filipino people are, they'll be just fine.

Just an update (Yeah, I'm the guy this thread was about), I have 6 people in the Philippines who work full-time for me. I pay them between $100 - $550/month for the full-time work.

They're all super happy.

Best thing that ever happened to my business.

John Jonas

[ardnutt]

I wonder if all the people who seem to be playing the "ethical" card are sat at their PC right now, safe in the knowledge that the clothes on their back, the shoes on their feet and the coffee they're slurping was all produced by people earning an "acceptable" minimum wage.

I take it you all know the source of the above items I mention?

I wonder....

[YseUp]

Pretty soon (2 or 3 years from now) companies will be outsourcing their work to the US as well, so they'll get first hand experience whether it's ethical or not.

[YseUp]

Originally Posted by GoranCro

I'm from Croatia and I would consider it to be a 2nd world country. People don't make very much at all compared to the US. of course there are exceptions. last time I was there I saw Ferrari's and Mercedes all over the place yet I turn my head and see people driving the 45 Yugo still.

It's not unethical in my opinion. You're helping that person out, his/her family, and in the end both of you benefit from it.

My only question is where one can find such cheap work?

Are you sure about this? Yes there are lots of super rich people driving ferrari's but there are also many poor people.

Money isn't everything, I think the average quality of life in Croatia is much better than that of the US IMO. And your women are much better as well!

The US isn't like they show on TV or in the movies you know... far from it.

[Traffic-Bug]

It is not exploitation. Theya re willing to work so they work. Free markets, capitalism wins. i also want to say that this guy has posted in that web page: 'Why outsourcing to India is a terrible idea " I suspect he is a filipino himself and cant stand competition from India. I have used Indian outsourcing and I have to say they are better than Philippines or Pakistan at the same or lower rates. many people cant stand Indian outsourcing success so they post things like this

[Mark Dulisse]

It is always beneficial to approach the person for $2 a hour, and tell them your going to give them what they are really worth to you, and give them $20 a hour.

To me, it is simply exploitation of those not as fortunate. Period.

Yes, they are doing it to feed their family. Why not give them $20 a hour so they can actually buy their kids a bicycle too.

[Adam Kenzington]

I am a fan of John Jonas, and I own the Replace Myself program he produces.

For those of you who think these Filipino workers are being exploited, go to:

www.bestjobs.ph

and view the resumes that these job seekers have posted. These are college graduates, with 2-4 years experience in their chosen field, that have named the salary price that they want for doing your work.

They are looking for full-time employment...8 hours a day, 5 days a week, and they are charging, on average, $350 - $400 per month. This is what they are asking, not the slave wages that some unethical capitalist pig is forcing them to take.

$350 - $400 per month, in the Philippines, is a good living wage.

I have a friend in India that I Skype with daily. When I complained that my elect bill was $489.51 this month, he was shocked (I was shocked, too!), and told me that both of his parents (professionals) make less than that in a month, and he (a young man, just a few years in the job market) makes $225/mo.

Yet, they live very comfortably. Granted, you would starve, here in the states, on $2/hr., but the cost of living in these other countries is such that $2/hr is a damn good wage, that they are happy to get.

They get other perks. It is customary, in the Philippines, to pay your worker a bonus, once they have been in your employ for 1 year... something they call "the 13th month". It's a bonus the equalavant of 1 month's wages. (Their version of the Christmas bonus) This is expected of you, as an employer. Seems fair to me.

These folks are wanting this work, they do it well, and the unethical part in all this would be to deny them the opportunity, because you don't want to exploit them.

[YseUp]

Originally Posted by Mark Dulisse

It is always beneficial to approach the person for $2 a hour, and tell them your going to give them what they are really worth to you, and give them $20 a hour.

To me, it is simply exploitation of those not as fortunate. Period.

Yes, they are doing it to feed their family. Why not give them $20 a hour so they can actually buy their kids a bicycle too.

Dude, I know you're coming from a good place but what your proposing is not a good idea.

I've visited 3rd world countries, India, Cambodia etc. And I always see 'rich' westerners feeling sorry for locals (especially kids) and give them money. A couple of dollars is not much to you and to them it's a fortune.

Problem is your causing inflation of local prices for goods by overpaying compared to the rest of the market. That's why 'rich' westerners should haggle with local shops and not pay too much more (a little bit is ok) for local services and goods because it hurts the local people more than you realise.

[Scott Burton]

I do not wish to point any accusatory fingers at anyone, but here are some numbers pulled from the CIA WOrld Fact Book (theoretically a reliable source of information) for comparison.

GDP Per Capita (Purchasing Power Parity) annual by country / Unemployment Rate
Philippines $3,400 / 7.4%
China $6,100 / 4%-9% (officially 4%, may be as high as 9% in rural areas)
India $2,900 / 6.8%

Now using the standard formula commonly applied (at least in the USA) of 2000 working hours per year, times the rate per hour of $2, this would be a $4,000 per year job. Which is in excess of the Gross Domestic Product (according to the PPP formula) divided by the population, in 2 of these three countries, and is about 2/3 of the same value in the third of these countries.

Compared against the USA where the same figure is $48,000.

[TLCarroll]

I'm a career nurse here in the US for nearly 30 years.

It is very common for nurses to work double shifts. Period.

Nurses are understaffed and overworked everywhere and there is a huge nursing shortage in the US.

Technicalities aside, it most certainly does go on everywhere.

Also, if nurses refuse to work when they are "mandated", facilities make your life a misery by putting you in areas that are worse than your normal work area.

I work in a private nursing environment for a nursing agency and am near retirement, but I have personally experienced these staffing problems. It is common and while the unions might help LPNs, if you are an RN like I am you're usually considered management and exempt from the union rules. Some places won't even pay overtime wages because you are considered flat rate due to being in management.

Unfair, but true.

The only good thing is that working in a facility means you'll have benefits like insurance and a pension. Working through a nursing agency your work schedule and workload is better but they don't offer paid benefits. You have to pay out of your own pocket. Which isn't a problem for many nurses whose spouse has benefits at thier jobs, but if you're single you're screwed.

Originally Posted by Alexandre Valois

Technically, they are - but laws are not without loopholes.

Many working nurses have been literally suspended after refusing to work double/triple shifts, nothing any union could do about it.

Whenever a case gets brought to court, the ruling goes in favor of the state and the "well-being and protection of the population" due to a lack of personnel to operate the facilities and provide adequate treatment to the people. Sometimes they will also throw in the fact that, by law, you are expected to provide assistance to anyone in need, unless your involvement would put either you, or the other person, at risk. Being trained to work in such a facility where people's lives can be on the line, they can give any hospital worker a hard time for not complying when asked to work double or triple shifts due to "staff shortage". Remember, those are public institutions here, funded by the government, with tax payer's money.

Of course .... you are not FORCED .... let's just say ... Strongly encouraged? If you're not happy with it, you can always find another job ...

No wonder people straight out of nursing school apply to work in private health clinics here - they get paid up to 3 times the salary, and don't have to deal with those issues. Which in the end, only contributes to making the public health system even worse ...

[Sandi Valentine]

I worked in mental health. We had mandation, and I wasn't even a nurse. If I was needed to work overtime at the last minute, and left because I had children at home with no care, I could be written up or terminated for abandoning patients. It was even worse for the nurses.

It's a real problem, even in the US

I don't work in mental health anymore

[AlanS2323]

I have no idea, because I have no idea what $2 buys in whatever country the outsources are working in. Maybe $2 is a lot of money where they are. What would be ethical? Paying US minimum wage? In a lot of places around the world, paying US minimum wage would make a person relatively rich.

In any event, given my own experience with outsources, you're probably not getting good help for $2/hour.

[Wah Bhatti]

in most contries its like £1 will be what they buy in ther local currencey so waht you buy for £ or $ at home they do the same its just the exchange rate that helps us guys out

then ther is the underprivilisation and just a mass of people who need your $ as they live on that per day

"how smart, loyal, educated, and hard working the Filipino people are, they'll be just fine"


when you be come smart and loyal and true im sure live will work for you


ps any spelling courses gouing our shall i out sourse that to

[Nevada Gal]

What's ethical is paying people for their work; if someone wants to work or $2 then that's okay by me. $2 may hardly buy a coffee where I live but in some cases it's a lot of money.

I have some friends who live in Thailand. They live like kings on hardly any money. They have full time staff, cooks, maids - the whole she-bang. The reason they have all this is their money buys a lot more stuff. The people who work for them are happy to have jobs, consistent income and money in their pockets.

[TheAge]

I cannot see how this is unethical at all.

As long as a person agrees to work through their own free will, and they're not being forced or being mislead, then even if they were being paid $0.02 it would still not be unethical.

If there were government restrictions on these types of fees being paid, employers would find other solutions, and many that could work for $2/hr would instead be unemployed and making nothing.

Not only is a free market ethical, it is also practical.

- Adrian

[Daisuke]

ive gone to the philippines every summdr for the last couple of years and two dollars an hour isnt that bbad. chinese sweatshops pay less. and in case you havent heard of 3rd world countries...

and theres no such thing as a 2nd world country lol

[pj413]

Originally Posted by Bryan Zimmerman

$2.00 to you might be nothing more than a candy bar and a soda. To someone else it might be a way to feed their family. In parts of some countries $2.00 an hour is actually a lot of money.

Point well taken